Atoning For The Past

Always worth a read, Calvin Smith's opinion piece in yesterday's Royal Gazette raises some interesting questions.

"The onus is on White Bermudians to make a greater effort in assisting the PLP government in guiding Bermuda to a place where race ceases to be a factor in the achievement of national political and economic goals.

If white Bermudians do not join in this worthy effort very quickly, the blacks who run the political process may make the unfortunate discovery that racism is nice as long as your race is in charge."

Unfortunately Mr. Smith didn't go into any detail about how he thinks white Bermudians might do this. As a recent letter to the Editor of the Royal Gazette observed, there's much talk about whites needing to atone for the past before the spectre of racism can finally be laid to rest but no-one seems particularly clear on what kind of atonement is required.

So how can white people help take race out of politics? Join the PLP perhaps? That would be great, but it ain't going to happen until the PLP make an effort to encourage that. Most white Bermudians seem to believe the PLP are uninterested in the backing of any part of the white community because they know they can get re-elected solely with the support of blacks.

Hopefully Mr. Smith will go into more detail in his column next week.

Comments

[The Limey on 25.05.04 at 14:16]

Here's my position on the issues raised so far.

If whites were to start joining the PLP, going to Berkeley and participating in other mostly black institutions I think it would do a lot to improve race relations in Bermuda. And I certainly don't believe it would be as hard for whites to do that as it was for blacks to start penetrating white organisations back in the 1970s. However, as Calvin pointed out in the first comment on this thread, the black community had a strong incentive - to get some of the good life. Whites don't have that motivation. Most have a comfortable life already and "improving race relations in Bermuda" is an altruistic incentive. That's not usually what motivates people to do things.

In that context, I find it perfectly understandable that a parent would baulk at sending their white child to Berkeley. I'm surprised that any head would advise against it, though. Any educational establishment whose students are drawn disproportionately from one segment of the community ought to be working hard to change that. When I was studying at Oxford, the University put a great deal of effort into trying to recruit students from the public school system, its existing student body coming disproportionately from private schools. Berkeley should establish a similar programme to woo whites.

The same argument holds for whites joining the PLP. All the Premier needs to do is make a couple of speeches now and then talking about his goal of forging a united Bermuda and encouraging whites to join the party. If he were to do that, I guarantee whites would start looking at the PLP in a whole new light. But until then, not only will whites not have the incentive to join, but all they'll be able to remember when they think of the PLP is the racist statements that some of their members made at the last election.

The PLP don't have any racist policies - the closest they get to that is an unofficial policy of affirmative action. You may not agree with such a policy (I don't), but you could hardly call it "racist". That said, I believe there is a genuine question mark about whether the PLP want whites in their party. Those comments made at the last election cannot be disregarded. There have been no statements from the PLP encouraging whites to join. And the PLP have a lot to lose from losing their identity as the "black party", at least as long as the majority of the electorate remain black. Once their racial makeup starts to mirror that of the community as a whole, blacks will no longer have a natural party for which to vote.

The fact is, we're not living in the 1970s any more. If racial unity is a goal held by the black community too, why are we arguing about whose responsibility it is to make the first move? Whites should start integrating black institutions. Blacks should help by doing things to demonstrate they're welcome.

[swing voter on 25.05.04 at 14:28]

Hmmm, where to start.

Firstly Jake, the comment was not intended as a literal comparison and your attempt to characterise it that way is an attempt to dismiss the logical flaw of Cal Smith's column. The post was to extend Cal Smith's analogy to it's extreme demonstrating the ridiculousness of it. The PLP don't want white members. If they do Alex Scott wouldn't have told an election rally that this was all about 'demographics'. Translation in case you didn't get his point: We don't need those whites.

So yes, comparing the PLP and the KKK literally is inappropriate, but they both want segregation and operate under racist principles due to hatred of another race.

I understand your strong attachment to the PLP and desire to defend it, demonstrated by your reaction to the comment, but you should step back a little and consider it before flying off the handle.

Perhaps you'd also like to clarify this following comment: "And for the record, the PLP had white members BEFORE the UBP had black ones."

That is more than a little bit of a distortion don't you think. The PLP was founded a few years before the UBP. When the UBP was founded it was done so by white and black members. So from day one the UBP had members of both races seeking reconcilliation and a partnership.

The facts seem to be getting a little loose all of a sudden, as Loki has amply demonstrated with his Saltus example. Everything isn't as black and white as it may seem in Bermuda, even at that terribly white institution (or maybe not) Saltus.

Perhaps your ideas of the UBP are just as flawed and prejudicial as your statements about Saltus.

[lickinalong on 25.05.04 at 14:31]

Why did white Bermudians fail to join black organizations after desegregation? It is probably more complex than has been presented here where one side contends that it was racism and the other side contends that it was a failure of the black community to invite and welcome whites to join. Racism certainly played and probably continues to play a role. White’s did not admire or respect black organizations. They saw them as second rate in part because of ingrained racist values and in part because the organizations lacked resources. Secondly white’s were and are afraid of black groups. Black Bermudians always had a better understanding of white culture than whites had of the black culture. Black culture was and is something quite mysterious to most whites and so whites avoided those organizations because they were uncomfortable (in their ignorance) of black culture. Thirdly, whites did not feel that they had to join black groups because they were quite satisfied with their own existing social groups. Why send your children to a black school when you have a perceived “better” white school at your disposal. Finally blacks did not make much of an effort to invite whites to be a part of their organizations. I know that in education, black members of the UBP in their early days urged white members to send their children to Berkeley but other than that I have not heard of any concerted attempts by any black organizations including the PLP to try to broaden their membership. For example in the last 30 years I have never been approached either directly or indirectly by a black organization of any kind to join it. My sense is rightly or wrongly, that most black organizations may be quite happy with the status quo and remaining as “black” organizations.

The Bible in its wisdom tells us that “the sins of the fathers will be visited on the sons up to the seventh generation”. In the Bermuda context I believe the Bible is telling us that it will take up to 7 generations for the great sins of segregation and racism to be put aside by those who have been wronged. It is hard to believe that it has only been 40 years (2 generations) since Bermuda began addressing the problem of racism so the wounds of this sin are still open and deeply felt. It is going to take a good deal more time for those wounds to heal although the healing has clearly begun. As with all wounds, my guess is that those who are wounded notice those wounds all the time. In other words they are very sensitive. For those who are white this high level of sensitivity is often perceived as excessive sensitivity and counter-productive. On the other hand black Bermudians often perceive the actions of whites as being totally insensitive, that we subconsciously continue to look down on blacks in subtle and not so subtle ways. I think that both sides are probably right to a degree but we have unfortunately not been able to traverse that middle ground. That would require white Bermudians to recognize that vestiges of racism still may exist in our heads, hearts and our society and for black Bermudians to recognize that at times they are excessively sensitive. We will get there (we have another 5 generations if we are to believe the Bible) but it is going to take a fair bit of tolerance by both sides if this is to happen sooner than later.

At this point Bermuda is going through a healthy transition. Black Bermudians in the PLP have taken power and are showing us that they have the capacity and ability to successfully run Bermuda. I really do not think at this time that the black Bermudians in the PLP really want white Bermudians to be involved in this initiative and are just as happy that whites are not clamoring to join the party. If they wanted white participation they would be actively recruiting and inviting white Bermudians into their party. In fact it may be the best thing for Bermuda at this time that a totally black party is running the island for their success will be affirming (after 350 years of being put down) to all black Bermudians in a way that a multi-racial party could never be. In the meantime, white Bermudians are naturally feeling threatened and themselves are becoming overly sensitive. Clearly the PLP is a party that puts the interests of its black members first which at times can appear to be overtly racist against white Bermudians. But to keep it in context, whatever racism there is (and there is plenty black racism towards whites), is pretty mild compared to what black Bermudians faced over 40 years ago. That doesn’t make it acceptable but in time that will be worked through and in order to survive the PLP will ultimately need to reach out to white Bermudians and become a multi-racial party. When that happens we will know that we are finally making progress on the racial front.

[Lizardfish on 25.05.04 at 17:46]

lickinalong - bloody good post. Wish I could have written it ;-)

[loki on 25.05.04 at 17:58]

Yes, I think they hit the nail on the head with that post

[Buggywhip on 25.05.04 at 21:53]

Lickinalong,

I very much concur with what you have written. Unfortunately, at least if this forum is any indication, far too many white Bermudians would disagree with your assessment of Bermuda's history. And this is especially true where it concerns the past, present and future, of the UBP - some on this board will deny the sun rising in the east if it cast light on any wrongdoing in the UBP.

I bet that some in particular are trying to figure out for certain if you are black, white, UBP or PLP, just so that they can squeeze or dismiss your "wisdom" into a box. Perhaps the most embarrasing thing about white Bermudians as a group is that it's taken an expat limey a matter of mere months to say the kinds of things that rarely if ever come out of the mouths of white Bermudians. Even more pathetic is that he is one of only a handful of whites in this country who has EVER tried to put forward a balanced point of view without a cloak of anonymity. Blacks have been waiting for whites to show some interest in coming halfway across the bridge for decades, and look, the Limey beat you to it! He's put many of you to shame!!! Quite frankly, some of us are so tired of getting spat on by the likes of BDAJoe and Swing Voter, that we'd actually tolerate intolerable BS and mismanagement by the PLP as long as it didn't mean impending doom. Here's a surprise, we actually don't want ANYTHING to do with the likes of BDAJoe and Swingvoter (well duh!).

Ask yourself this question: Why is it that before now you've NEVER heard whites say, "Hey I'd like to join your football, cricket, social clubs and churches, but I get this feeling you really don't want me there." Forget political parties and ask how is it that we have such a large UK expatriate population, but cricket and football are even today overly-dominated black sports? It's like as if everyone all of a sudden become rugby lovers the minute they hit Bermuda.

Curse the PLP for the wrongs that they have done, and question why blacks haven't proactively gone out to invite whites into their organisations. But don't act clueless when you don't get invited to a party you never demonstrated interest in attending in the first place, even when there was no attempt to reject you of substance. And especially when we only got invited to your parties when it suited your purposes... Don't act clueless when blacks distrust white Bermudians for never saying ANYTHING negative about the UBP in public, no matter how large the incompetence, immorality or appearance of corruption. And don't act clueless when blacks are content to be alone when you have the likes of bermy911, loxmaine666 and angryrasta tearing a page out of a KKK manual every six hours.

When are whites going to start kicking as much shit about people like this (without anonymity) as they do whenever the PLP does something cocktacular? You want to build trust? Okay then do something that builds trust. Take the UBP to task when they screw up too, and maybe blacks will start to think that you are interested in what is fair instead of just maintaing the status quo. Blacks tear the arse out of the PLP when they screw-up, and they have been on the forefront of condemning the 2003 campaign. But where are whites when the UBP does something obtuse or flat out reprehensible? Why are white Bermudians silent when one of "their own" does something horrible to blacks? Where is the outrage and condemnation for the Bermuda Free Speech forum?

The PLP have a moral obligation to attract both races, but whites are equally obligated to earn black peoples' trust after decades of violating it - especially when we see the UBP playing the same race cards they've always played. Contrary to the BS you've been fed all your lives, many of us are intelligent, no more scary than you are and actually want to celebrate our Bermudian hearts with you. We just don't wear blue blazers, penny loafers and hang out at the RBYC.

Step up to the plate like The Limey and I bet you'll get invited to more than a few shindigs.

Vrrrrrrroooom on my mobylette bye.

[loki on 25.05.04 at 22:03]

For what it's worth, I think that lickinalong's assessment was outstanding. Furthermore, if you had carefully read some of the posts on this site over time, you would see that some of us (myself included) have been very criticial of the BermudaFreeSpeech Forum. The hatespeech forum as I call it.

[BDA JOE on 25.05.04 at 22:07]

SV, thank you for putting Jake in his place. His comments were misleading, prejudiced and in some places completely untrue. I, as a student at Saltus, resent very much his ignorant generalization of Saltus as a 'white school'. I also think his reaction to the KKK analogy was a fine example of lickinalong's point about 'excess snsitivity' when it comes to race.

As for you lickinalong, I truly believe that was one of the finest posts ever seen by this website. Honestly better than anything I've ever posted. You argued your case brilliantly and I really think you made some serious inroads into that middleground to which you were referring. I'd also encourage you to become a regular contributor to the site, because I honestly believe you (and other's like you) would do Phil a service by improving Limey In Bermuda for all of us.

Having said that, I'm going to disagree with you on a few things.

One of things I've picked up in your, and a few others', posts is the belief that integration is something that should be enforced. It isn't, however the whole concept operates under the assumption that all involved will impose these principles on themselves. Integration is not the black clubs and the white clubs being forced to let in people from the other race, but rather to be forced to allow them to enter. The onus is not on either party to make this happen, just to let it be able to happen. Blacks joined the UBP, because the white leaders decided to let blacks join, and they did. That was integration. Let's not pretend for a moment that it was anti-integration for whites not run and join the black clubs, it wasn't. It was integration the day that both whites, and the traditionally black institutions agreed that they would could be allowed to join each other's ranks.

I don't believe that it is the sole responsibility of the so called 'winner' of segregation to bring about integration and for the 'loser' to follow along. Whites must invite and accept blacks into their institutions (as they have) and blacks must do the same for whites (as not all of them have).

Will anyone agree that today, regardless of what might have years ago, white organizations are generally more accepting of black members than black organizations are of whites?

I think you are also excluding an important reason why whites have not gone over to black institutions very often. As a white person, and I'm sure the same goes for blacks as well, it is very hard to talk to someone of the other race and forget the history between the two of you. Whites, I would say, are somewhat nervous that in joining black organizations they will be reminded and criticized for what their ancestors did.

In case your wondering why I made that earlier point that might seem to contradict some of my earlier posts, here's why. The one, and only I believe, exception to integration not having to be self-enforced is of course, the democracy. This is, by definition, a institution for everyone, regardless of race, religion etc. This is why I don't think comparisons between the PLP and certain cricket clubs are wise. Black organizations, like a cricket club, do not have a say on how the 'white' clubs run their affairs. Regardless if they have whites or not.

The Republic, and other so called handbooks for democracy mandate that these institutions must be for the people, hence the prefix 'demo-'. I'd say democracy is on of the only definitions of enforced integration, otherwise it is not a democracy. The PLP is the government now, it is their responsibility to integrate themselves.

Who would you say was responsible for the UBP integrating? Certainly blacks would have been keen to break down the barriers, yet it is my belief this wouldn't have happened had whites not opened the door first. Why should the means by which the black party force integration on themselves be any different to how the 'white party' did it?

Do you really think the PLP being in power is healthy for Bermuda? I mean, policy wise they aren't failing, but I am not of the opinion that having a party that puts the interests of only one group of people first is the best thing for the country. Since the introduction of the party system in Bermuda, there has been an all black government in power longer than there ever was an all white government. I look to the bible for wisdom just as much as the next person, but I don't believe this is the best application for the 'eye for an eye' proverb.

I agree that a positive side of the PLP is definitely affirming the black population. However, should we put restoring the self-confidence of black Bermudians ahead of the collective interests of us all, including whites?

I think we are in serious danger of the population outpacing the government on this issue. In a democracy, we are divided along the same lines as our leaders. It is not in our best interest (nor the PLP's) that Bermudians realize that racial equality is the way to go, before the government does. If this, as you say the bible might indicate, will happen in 5 more generations, is that the life span of this current government? 100 years is a long time to exist under one-race government, and should the next Bermudian century be controlled by a similar government, 2100 will not be much different than today...

[Buggywhip on 25.05.04 at 22:47]

"Furthermore, if you had carefully read some of the posts on this site over time, you would see that some of us (myself included) have been very criticial of the BermudaFreeSpeech Forum. The hatespeech forum as I call it."

I'll have to read more when I have time, but still where is the level of open disgust amongst whites for the Bermuda Free Speech forum? You've got whites marching up on Government House enmasse during the constitutional changes, but when have you ever seen whites protest like that against bigotry committed by whites? You don't see it. Is it any wonder many blacks go about their business when so few whites stand up and be counted against white bigotry? Of course blacks will be distrustful when whites have not made consistent, strong and visible, displays of protest against the things that have been and are still done against us.

Where is the evidence that you actually have a new interest in joining our organisations? We have a long history of you trying to keep us out of your shingdings and even trying to shut down ours. So on what basis are we to perceive that there's been a change of heart and mind? I'll tell you, the likes of Bermuda Joe undermine your credibility with every word he types. I shudder to think what else I'd find in other threads.

"Blacks joined the UBP, because the white leaders decided to let blacks join, and they did. That was integration."

I almost peed myself laughing when I read this. Oh yeah, that sure was integration - ROTLMFAO.

"Do you really think the PLP being in power is healthy for Bermuda? I mean, policy wise they aren't failing, but I am not of the opinion that having a party that puts the interests of only one group of people first is the best thing for the country."

ROTLMFAO! Oh the irony! Classic lessons from Delusion 101. Someone skipped a few history classes, or earned extra credit in Propaganda Theory.

[BDA JOE on 25.05.04 at 22:53]

Can someone please tell me what ROTFLMFAO means?

[Calvin on 25.05.04 at 22:58]

Rolling On The Floor Laughing My F*ing Ass Off

Go Flames!!

[loki on 25.05.04 at 23:07]

The reasons why more people aren't openly critical of what is said on that site are, I think:

1. It is so populated by racists and extremists that nobody gives it any credibility anyway;

2. Whilst I am disgusted by some of what I have read on that site, I believe in freedom of speech, even speech that I consider hateful. Censorship is very dangerous territory to get into, but that's for another debate entirely.

[Rich on 26.05.04 at 00:29]

Buggywhip,

The Bermuda Free Speech Forum is a bloody joke. It's littered with closed-minded idiots whose collective skins probably burn anytime someone not of their "kind" walk by. People who can't speak a word without mumbling some kind of incoherent BS about all the evils the PLP/Black Man/St Kitts Club/Gombey Premier or whatever other inane label those morons can come up with.

I agree completely with Loki's 1st point - I certainly don't give it much credence.

You raise a good point about censorship - when it is allowed, debate can never be good. However, here's a bit of food for thought (I'm going on quite a pissrant here so please - my postings don't refer to eveyone who frequents that page - a lot of people there do try to contribute positively, albeit in vain, sometimes I feel)

Isn't it ironic that a group who claims to be for free speech, requires permission to join?

Isn't it ironic that when someone begins to debate points raised in a coherent and rational manner, he/she immediately must have his/her posts vetted by a moderator?

Isn't it ironic that if you sufficiently piss off those people, no matter how sensible you try to be, they immediately kick you off?

Isn't it also ironic that the idiots who regularly spit venom there, who seem so sure about their opinions, find it easy to hind behind the wonderful cloak of anonymity? Who don't have the balls to say what they want in a real forum like this, or in the letter pages of the RG, or on talk shows or on the streets? Or whatever other medium usually associated with the concept of free speech, other than a restricted webpage, in some obscure corner of the internet, out of the reach of Bermuda's jurisdiction? Out of reach from the very "scrutiny" and "accountability" they regularly ask of the PLP??

The afore mentioned things happened to me. My posts were vetted and deleted. There's a warning in their files section that states clearly "personal attacks on forum members will lead to your removal". I was harrassed by people who can't seem to form proper sentences, whose grasp of the English language is more questionable than those they criticise, who can't type messages with out adding in ad infinitum unnecessary internet lingo, who can't think for themselves and need UBP politicians to give them "soundbytes" - not just because my opinions differed from theirs, but also because theirs were contraditcted by facts and realities!

Loki, I believe in freedom of speech very much. I would never try and mask my posts because of concerns of being PC or what have you (or you it would appear, or most other responsible posters here on Phil's page). But as I've said before on this forum - implicit in freedom of speech is a very real responsibility. And people who shirk this responsibility by acting in a manner not becomming of their normal selves (I bloody hope anyway), thanks to the convenience of pseudonyms deserve to have their collective arses tarred and feathers and set ablaze!

I apologise to those responsible posters who may find offense in this post. Feel free to delete it, Phil. To those who I refer to, I couldn't care less.

[Rich on 26.05.04 at 00:42]

And Calvin....

As much as I would have like to have seen the Sens at this point, I have to say as well....

Go Flames

[jn on 26.05.04 at 00:57]

sooo true rich...

I get very ruffled by the things they say as well.

[Buggywhip on 26.05.04 at 07:31]

"1. It is so populated by racists and extremists that nobody gives it any credibility anyway;

2. Whilst I am disgusted by some of what I have read on that site, I believe in freedom of speech, even speech that I consider hateful. Censorship is very dangerous territory to get into, but that's for another debate entirely."

No one said anything about censoring them, and THEIR credibility is not the issue - it's the credibility of whites who see this and say nothing whose credibility is on the line. Those whites that say they want to meet us halfway have had for several years THIS wonderful opportunity to establish THEIR OWN credibility. Yet Rich Ambrosio's comments are the first I've EVER read denouncing the BFS forum.

If whites want blacks to trust them, then show us something that encourages trust - stand up and be counted not only when you feel something wrong has been done to you, but also when something wrong has been done to us. We've been giving you that much since the dawn of party politics (despite the likes of BDAJoe's revisionist history lessons), yet hardly anyone goes on the record when the UBP screws up, someone says something bigoted about blacks or when policies clearly need to be changed to influence equality. Too few of you even acknowledge the BS that was done in politics, even when you have witnesses in your face telling you.

...There is a cool commercial that ran on TV a few months ago. It's a job interview with two white guys and I think a latino guy. They end the interview with a hardy handshake, but when the latino guy leaves, one of the white interviewers crush his resume and says, "I think there is enough colour around here already." The other white dude goes to the trash can, grabs the resume and straightens it out saying something like, "I think there is nothing wrong with more colour." [Now that's what I'm talking about!]

This isn't necessarily about some guilt trip or condemning you for what those before you have done. It's about building trust, especially because we have plenty reason to be untrustworthy. Show us something trustworthy, and perhaps you'll change this country faster than anyone ever thought possible. Imagine a thousand Limeys, hell, ten thousand Limeys OPENLY calling out bullshit whether it comes from the PLP or the UBP. First there'd be shellshock amongst blacks. But, soon after I bet you'd smash down the very walls that the UBP actually reinforced. And, you'd eliminate opportunities for the PLP to reap success from campaigns like that of 2003 (and that's assuming that they'd still attempt it in the first place, which I doubt having seen your demonstrations of trust).

Stand up and be counted! Do that and you'd transform this f***ing country overnight.

Vroooooom on my mobylette, bye.

[jake on 26.05.04 at 08:06]

Goodmorning BermudaJoe,

Let me assure you that the whole stream from loki has not "put me in my place" - as if you could determine my place in any event. But nice of you to try.

But to be fair to him here is is comment about what life would have been like at the school:

" Don't get me wrong, Calvin, I think that the headmistress's advice was absolutely right. She was absolutely right to warn my parents that I was not going to fit in at the school. And she was right - there's no doubt in my mind that I would have had the crap kicked out of me on a fairly regular basis had my parents not heeded the headmistress's advice. Kids, regardless of race, will always pick on those that are not like them, whether that be because of nationality, race, weight, etc. That's what kids do."

The first sentence his true opinion and view, the second, an apology for it in advance. And he calls me dishonest?

Dishonest is trying to pull a sample of students from your class of 30 and then make a claim on the racial make up of the student body. Ridiculous. I went to Saltus too - did you forget that? Overwhelmingly, it was made up of white Bermudians, foreign (white) students, and a sample of the black elite. There were also students on scholarships that were not elite (many races) who attended on the basis of merit. Your age tells me that your experience at Saltus was more integrated than mine. But don't assume that I am wrong. I have never put forward any point on this site in the knowledge that it was wrong - and I encourage folks to check my stuff out.

But I am not criticising Saltus. Nor am I criticising your parents' choice. I am criticsing your comment that you would have been the subject of regular violence. Whether it was the headmistress or your belief, it is WRONG and it perpetuates a false image of the education I received. And if my style of writing offends thee, cast it out.

Oh Lizardfish...please don't assume I don't know your family. I do. Upstanding folk actually in the old tradition. Your uncle who spent years working in the Scout Association in predominantly poor black neighbourhoods for one. A white Bermudian with a truly open mind on relationships with black people. He was no PLP supporter - not by a long shot - but he knew they were not the devils that the KKK are either. But I accept that perhaps I took your comment out of context, as the analogy infuriated me so.

Look folks, I am longer in the tooth than many of you, and perhaps my manner offends you, or shocks you. PErhaps when I post I give too many direct examples that tell you what happens behind the scenes in Bermuda. That is the old way. I grew up in place where the question, "Who are your people?" was asked on a daily basis. And in this small place I can tell you about a Bermuda that for many of you never existed. But you do have the option of not reading...

But I will again try to be nice, Phil. Really I will. :-)

[loki on 26.05.04 at 08:44]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, Jake. All I can say is that I find your interpretation of my comments truly bizarre. I was not apologizing for my comments at all - it was an absolute qualification that made it clear that I was saying that ALL kids behave that way. You intentionally chose to cut that out of your response to my post. So, yes, that's dishonest.

"Dishonest is trying to pull a sample of students from your class of 30 and then make a claim on the racial make up of the student body."

Another dishonest statement - you can see from my original post that I never did any such thing. I specifically stated that the racial makeup of my class was 50% black. These were the people that I spent the vast majority of my time with. I did not state that the racial make up of the entire school was 50%, as you well know.

I don't care if someone wants to debate on here, that's what the board is for. What I object to, and what defeats the whole point of the board, is when people intentionally manipulate and misrepresent what others have said.

[Lizardfish on 26.05.04 at 10:02]

Jake - I make no mistake, my family have been one of the most outstanding Bermuda families with regards to racial equality. However, you have no idea about their personal veiws and perceptions and I would love to have a private conversation with you about this. I resented your comment about me going against what my family have done, because you clearly misinterpreted the comment I said about the KKK analogy (which in hindsight was a poor one with regards to misinterpretation), and clearly have no idea about how my political and racial views compare with members of my family.

I grew up in Bermuda in an environment without knowing what racism was or experiencing it to any degree. Gilbert Institute was a well mixed school and I had no idea that in the past people had considered there were differences between colours of skin. I was shocked to learn this as I grew older. When I returned to the island 4 years ago, I was yelled at in the street by young black Bermudians "go home", before I even opened my mouth, I was spat at and blatantly mistreated because I was white on several occassions. Fair enough these may be isolated occurences but I get the impression from others that this is a widespread thing.

What was so different about their school to mine? Why did they grow up with so much hatred when I experienced none. Or is it just the fact that we were young then and didn't care about how race was affecting our future? Did they grow up and get told that the reason why they haven't got a good future ahead of them is because whites have and will take all the jobs and their attitude towards whites changed? Perhaps.

In no way am I saying that all young black Bermudians act like this, I am friends with many and they don't treat me like that!

I have read all these posts above and accept points made by most posters. We can't expect the past to not bear any scars on society today however, I ask myself, why do old black Bermudians act so much friendlier towards whites today than younger ones? Surely the wounds of discrimination are more deeply felt in older Bermudians than younger ones? Can anyone provide an explanation for this? Are older Bermudians just more accepting of the past? Perhaps I am just being incredibly ignorant of something really obvious but I can't understand why there seems to be such a huge difference in attitudes between the generations. However, I haven't done a survey and really don't know if this is some odd perception I have.

Black racial attitudes seem to have become worse since the PLP have been the governing party, and my feeling is that they actively encourage it, perhaps not in their policies but especially in their campaigns.

One final point, and it is a very general one (and I could be wrong), is that out of all people who show clearly racist attitudes the majority of whites are above 50, while the majority of blacks are below and usually 18-30. This is a strange polarisation and I wonder, what it will result in? Will young racist blacks gradually ease off, or will presently non-racist young whites retaliate by forming racist attitudes of their own. I hope not the latter, otherwise racial harmony is a lot further off than I would hope.

Sorry if this post is incredibly disjoint and drawn out. I was thinking out loud.

L.

[jake on 26.05.04 at 12:12]

Lizardfish,

A good question re: older blacks. They are nicer because they were taught through experience to hide their true feelings. Many are all too happy to smile at you because in many ways they fear what has gone on in the past.

In other forums, these same smiling happy faces will warn the younger generation to beware this or beware that. The younger generation believe they have less to fear, and so they are often rash and over the top with their comments about "the white man" many having experienced less harsh treatment than their forebears.

Both examples do not define everyone, but define many people in our commmunity.

The best folks I know acknowledge the role of blacks in business, government, and society, and welcome the input of whites at the same time. But I believe that with time, people begin to welcome friends, and not simply blacks or whites into their business or political relationships. Kind of like this website a bit.

[loki on 26.05.04 at 12:42]

Jake

A question arising out of your last post: do you really think that there is a tendency amongst older black Bermudians to hide their true feelings, as opposed to suppressing them? It may seem a fine distinction, but my impression has always been the latter. Hiding true feelings implies that a person feels a particular way but doesn't outwardly show it, whereas suppressing those feelings is a conditioned response which often convinces those that have been the subject of abuse and mistreatment that everything's better than it really is. I think it's an important distinction from a sociological perspective, so I'd like to know what people think.

[Lizardfish on 26.05.04 at 14:27]

Jake - nice points. Maybe you're right. However, my conversations with many old black Bermudians and old white Bermudians gives me the impression that old blacks are a lot more understanding of the past and the events which occured during racial desegregation in Bermuda. I feel that these "friendly old black Bermudians" who were really there at the time are more aware of the acheivements of both whites and blacks which resulted in huge steps towards racial equality.

With attempts to educate memebers of the public and especially young Bermudians like having "black history month". I feel that young Bermudians are getting a rather skewed perspective on Bermuda's history and do not appreciate that many white people also helped to overcome segregation in Bermuda and they don't seem to grasp that most white people are no longer their enemies or a direct cause of their current situation. In my opinion, they have been fed the wrong message too many times, and I see the PLP as one of the major sources for this misinformation.

Many young black Bermudians are rightly being empowered and learning a lot of their history, which they should be proud of but at the same time, I feel that resentment of whites by young black Bermudians has been, perhaps unintentionally, encouraged.

But what would I know? I'd hate to think that the old black Bermudians, which I know and am so very fond of, are secretly holding my ancestry against me. It certainly doesn't feel like that. I can usually tell when someone is being 2 faced.

L.

[BDA JOE on 26.05.04 at 17:18]

"We just don't wear blue blazers, penny loafers and hang out at the RBYC

Oh, and I'm a racist? What was it...ROFLMFAO!!

[jake on 26.05.04 at 18:37]

Do the older black's secretly hate you? I would say, no. Do they completely trust you? Perhaps same answer. Are they sincere in their feelings toward you personally. Likely yes. Toward white people as a group. Likely no.

But tell me, what is the context in which you know these older blacks? Are they working for you or for organizations you frequent? Are they the plumber you have always used, or the taxi driver? Basically I am asking if they are working class Bermudians for whom you represent an economic opportunity, or not. Did they work at your family business for most of their lives? I can assure you that the white people I know were not influenced economically to embrace me. I ask, not to enflame the conversation, but sincerely, were the blacks motivated to embrace you?

And let me just give you a piece of enlightenment about black people. The PLP, while the elected government, is hardly the deciding factor in people's thoughts, and neither is black history month (an idea borrowed from our American friends like affirmative action, and which may not be the best model for Bermuda). Other than election time, very few black people listen to what the PLP MP's say in any context, and even fewer have direct contact with any PLP MP's. When you blame the PLP for teaching racial awareness, I smile, because I know for a fact that the PLP has had little to do with it. Remember this, the PLP comes from the black community - the black community does not come from the PLP.

Where does it come from? From within the fabric of the community. That means it comes from home. It is a deep seated belief in the black community that whites discriminate: in the past and today. Much support can be seen for this view. Why? Because outside of international business, there are many stories about people being discriminated against in favor of a white person. You are raised on this stuff.

Your history has told you that many white people worked to end segregation. My history tells me that some did, and that those who did were being more pragmatic than kind. Others were more sincere and worked with blacks to end segregation. They were ostracised and discriminated against as well. Dr. Ball comes to mind.

So try to view the thing from the other side. Remember, it is not a simple thing like white discrimination = black discrimination as is alluded to on this site. Black people - not the Government, the people - have very little economic influence over whites in this country today, or at any time, except for the economic impact of the strike, which hurts us both. So imagine that you had no power, and those who do are being friendly. Will you be friendly? Will you really have faith in their motives? (and I am not suggesting that one should not, merely asking if you would). Based on the fear of the PLP expressed here, and the belief that the current system is inherently unfair to whites (even though this is yet to be proven to me here), you may believe not.

I welcome your thoughts...

[BDA JOE on 26.05.04 at 23:03]

Can someone please tell me why I, as a white Bermudian, am morally obligated to join an organization that has made it clear to all that I am nothing short of a second-class citizen because of my race? Surely the time of white Bermudians would be better spent trying to convince the black population that there is no longer any reason to fear the UBP?

It cannot be denied that in this day in age, blacks in Bermuda have a far more powerful political voice than the whites. Even if half of them didn't vote, a black supported party could still conceivably beat any white party.

Therefore, the question needs to be asked; will a move by whites to join the PLP in any large number have any bring about any significant change to the party ideology? Is it worth sacrificing our true political beliefs and values for a cause that cannot be achieved?

The anti-white (or extreme pro-black, if you prefer), beliefs of the PLP had much more credence 40 years ago than they do today. In 2004 it is unreasonable to maintain that whites are at the root of all Bermuda's problems, and for some black it seems, all Bermuda's evil. In noting that, it would appear to me that we have very few options at our disposal. First, and probably most likely to succeed, is the complete integration of the PLP. This might seem like an unrealistic goal, but I truly believe that we are capable of it.

However, this will only be possible by an effort on the part of both races. Blacks are responsible for changing the mindset of the PLP. They need to stop pretending that it is their only option as blacks and to put pressure on it's leaders to stop encouraging this. By the same token, it is the obligation of whites to not shy away from voicing support for the government, when support is deserved. Whites as a whole need to get rid of their mind set that a vote for the PLP makes your skin a tone darker.

While I don't believe whites should be obligated to join the PLP, they are responsible for showing to all black Bermudians that they do not fear or dislike it because it is made up of only blacks. To do this they should, as I say, compliment the PLP when it is clear they deserve it (as well as criticizing the UBP when warranted). However, I firmly those whites who support independence should make their opinions known. There is too much of an assumption amongst blacks that most whites do not support going independent because they are scared of what a black government might do with the nobody watching over them. While this might be the case for some, it certainly does not hold true for all whites. Those whites who support independence should make their opinions known. Blacks have to understand that not all of us want to keep ties with Britain to protect our economic strong hold on the country.

'Fixing' the PLP is the responsibility of both races. Let us not assume though, that by joining the party whites will fix all that is already wrong with it. Whites are not obligated to join, especially when the signal coming from the party leaders is that they aren't welcome. They are responsible though, to show blacks that they aren't programmed to hate their party, and that should the PLP become truly pro-labor and progressive, they'd be more than happy to join. Blacks on the other hand, need to end their preconceived idea of how whites view Bermuda's racial situation. They need to show actual changes on their part by reflecting them in changes within the PLP. So who initiates? Some might look to what was done by the UBP to address this problem 35 years ago, but was that the perfect integration? I don't believe it was. It would appear that the answer to this question would be best found by a flip of a coin, because frankly there is no answer. Yet, the more we argue this question, the worse we are becoming because of racial polarization. The plain truth is that someone needs to do it, racial harmony (whatever that is) does not materialize from nowhere. If we can come this far, and end up dropping the ball on this simple matter, one wonders whether we can ever come together at all.

[Lizardfish on 27.05.04 at 00:23]

There is an old black Bermudian who sits outside Twins on Middle Road in Flatts, fixing up bikes. I'd say he's certainly working class. He doesn't know me from a hole in the wall but one day I sat down there in Paradise Lane with him nnd a bunch of old black Bermudians and just talked. This is just one of the experiences I am talking about. General encounters with old black Bermudians in day to day life, who don't know me as compared with similar encounters with young black Bermudians.

Again I haven't taken notes and gathered a non selective record of every notable event. This is just a general impression I have and is felt by other people of my age and race here.

But Jake, I agree with you on the points you've made about why older blacks may act the way they do compared with younger ones and you've helped me get a better perspective on this. Perhaps the truth is somewhere between our two perspectives?

I disagree with you that the PLP-Black Community relationship is not a two way street. While the PLP and their attitudes certainly do come from the black community I see them as having a huge capacity to spread and encite certain political and racial attitudes amongst the public. So you can wipe that smile of your face (which was a patronising comment to put it quite frankly)Just because you disagree does not mean you are right and I really don't see why you should be "smiling" at my opinion. It's hardly a ridiculous suggestion.

Was it not the PLP that encouraged blacks to fornicate in the trees in order to gain a black majority of voters? So look what we have now. An island overpopulated, with black people pumping out more children per person than whites, and a governing party who encouraged such a population boom, and is now struggling to house these people!

I suppose you think now that I have a problem with a black majority in Bermuda, but I don't. I have a problem with the PLP encouraging this for their own gains and not the good of the people.

Governing parties should be all about what's good for the people they are governing, but I see a PLP government that is obsessed with power and money and not really what's good for Bermuda (blacks or whites). I see them as encouraging racial divides in order to maintain their grip on power instead of actually taking care of major issues.

But I'm not completely anti PLP (as it may seem on this board!) and I think in many respects the UBP offer an unsatisfactory alternative.

But back to my thoughts on your other points. I see where you coming from with regards to some whites really being the root cause for current disadvantageous situations facing many blacks.

I do feel however, that any black person does not have the right to blame that on any white person they see in the street who may or may not be a direct cause but of course I have no idea what it feels like to suffer from such a tragic history and feel extremely disadvantaged because of it and mistrusting of all whites. I accept that some black Bermudians may not trust me before they get to know me, but being outwardly offensive, that's something I can't accept.

I am truly against the white elitist community and the blatant exclusion of blacks there even now, and I angry at any white person who still holds racial grudges etc. I am not trying to blame the PLP for ALL the black racism against whites. Clearly, it has roots of its own. I am saying that PLP is not helping and they took advantage of the fact that this residual hatred still existed and the way I see it, they fanned the flames and ignited a new fire and exploited it for their own purpose.

I am sorry if it seemed like I said the PLP is 100% to blame for the racial divides I speak of. Clearly they are not, but in my humble opnion, they are making a situation worse and because of this I had severe doubts about the effectiveness and the possibility of Calvin Smith's solutions.

It's interesting to note that a white Bermudian friend of mine who is closer to 40 than he would like to admit, joked that Calvin Smith's article was like saying the blacks should join the KKK, all and of his own thoughts without any idea of the thoughts discussed on this website. I just thought it worth a mention that this analogy is popping out of more than one person's mouth and I'd be interested to know how many other white Bermudians who I would by no means consider racist or narrow minded, agree with the KKK analogy (it's a bad one because it can clearly be misinterpreted) but it does portray what kind of light many see the PLP in and you have to ask yourself, is this how they want to see the PLP, or is this the result of actual PLP attitudes. Perhaps a bit of both?

I know I am still pretty naive when it comes to politics but Jake, if I could hazzard a guess I'd say you've been sucked into the PLP spin machine.

Sorry if I have been too repetative. I was finding it hard to articulate my points!

L.

[Sycophant on 27.05.04 at 08:14]

"Was it not the PLP that encouraged blacks to fornicate in the trees in order to gain a black majority of voters? So look what we have now. An island overpopulated, with black people pumping out more children per person than whites, and a governing party who encouraged such a population boom, and is now struggling to house these people!"

Lizardfish,

One of the more interesting exercises in diveristy training is to have both black and white participants blindfold themselves and walk from one side of an empty room to the other. Consistently whites beat blacks to the other side of the room. The whites walk straight across, while the blacks take their time, feeling their way with caution. Psychologists claim that this phenomenon is because blacks have learned to be fearful of their security. They've had to be cautious about what they do, and most importantly, be acutely aware of what white people think. Whites on the other hand have not had to live with such reservations.

I share this to say that if you honestly think that black Bermudians had and have an agenda to outpopulate whites by fornicating as much as possible, then we blacks have MUCH reason to fear what you think and say behind our backs. You want to talk about trust? Well, when your fear inclines you to think there is validity in such an incredibly absurd and unintelligent theory, then us blacks have a VERY long way to go before we genuinely establish equality. IMO your fear does not allow you to think rationally, and until you are able to deal with your own fear there will strength in divisive PLP tactics. No black person will support a white person with such horrible views, and I'm saddened to learn this about you.

Re the KKK analogy, let me be brief. Have a look here: http://www.americanlynching.com

Even before the KKK, whites would take any black person of their choosing, castrate them, then hang them, then burn them, then take photos of their handywork. Now you tell me:

1. When you consider EVERYTHING the PLP has done and said (not just the 2003 campaign), and contrast that with EVERYTHING the UBP has done, do you think that even an analogy makes any sense at all?

2. When you consider what the KKK has done, and understand that they actually believe in GENETIC SUPERIORITY and want to BRUTALLY KILL anyone who isn't white, do you in any way, shape or form, think that comparisons to the PLP are valid?

In my mind something should give you pause before following such lines of thinking. Are you so afraid that you are incapable of rational thought?

Have a look, Liz, and you tell me if we should be worried about what you think or not.

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/law/witt/raw_images/lect1/lynching.jpg

[Lizardfish on 27.05.04 at 20:53]

Again as I said before. In NO WAY was I agreeing that the PLP were as bad as the KKK and the analogy was for a specific point only. It did not say "the PLP are ABSOLUTELY like the KKK"!!!

Typical if you complain about the Bush administration you are labelled as a terrorist supporter.

If I have certain negative opinions about the PLP it does not mean that I love the UBP.

But thanks for narrowminded judgemental post there sycophant. Nice!

The PLP did urge blacks to reproduce so that they could gain power. It's not the end result that I have a problem with (apart from the housing crisi) or have a "fear" of, it's the motivation that I question.

I am not a UBP supporter!

L.

[CD on 27.05.04 at 21:48]

Good post there, BDA JOE. You too likenalong...

[loki on 27.05.04 at 21:55]

Lizardfish,

Thanks for posting some of the most intelligent and well-reasoned posts on this site. I, too, have had my words repeatedly and deliberately manipulated and misrepresented in order to paint me as a UBP-loving racist. Anyone with half a brain can see that NO ONE on this site is directly comparing the PLP to the KKK. An analogy pointing out the absurdity of an argument when taken to its logical conclusion is not the same as a direct comparison.

Don't let the bastards get you down.

[Sycophant on 27.05.04 at 23:05]

Lizardfish and all others. The issue is not an attempt at making a direct comparison. The issue is the validity of the analogy in the first place. The KKK analogy only makes sense if you were to argue that the PLP wants to decimate whites. Whether you mean emotionally, fiscally or physically, NONE of you can point to a PLP policy or action that seeks the destruction of whites in any form. Even "black empowerment" is not analogous to KKK ideology, so it is TOTALLY illogical for you to put the two together. The PLP does not seek the elimination or oppression of whites on this island, and for you to think that the tens of thousands of people who voted for the PLP are all "out to get you" shows that your fear of us does not let you think straight. If you can't look at the party's actual policies and actions to see the difference between them and the KKK on analogous terms, then you have a serious problem and it's well diagnosed as fear.

[I honestly can't believe I have to write this in 2004] You have to be a really sick person to think that for the last 40 years blacks have had an agenda of outpopulating whites in order to win an election. You have absolutely NO perspective on the amount of BS that is said and has been said in the House of Assembly over the last 100 years. And I dare you to find a PLP policy statement in any of their platforms that encourages fornication! Let's compare words for words and policies for policies of both parties and of both races before you judge us so horribly.

Furthermore, for you to actually think that blacks would take a comment like that seriously AND actually follow it to a point that the island is now overpopulated, you have demonstrated an incredibibly great hatred for blacks. You honestly must think we are so incredibly stupid and below you to think that we'd do something so friggin dumb. Many of you want to talk about the success of integration under the UBP, and then along comes a white person with a theory that fornication and out of wedlock births are all part of some black masterplan to oppress whites? You can't possibly see us as equals if you think so poorly of us. You call that equality? And you want to condemn the PLP for their 2003 campaign? Hell, you've actually VALIDATED their plantation statement if you think so lowly of our intelligence!!!

And let me tell you something else Lizardfish, I've met more than a few remarkably bigoted black people, and I have NEVER heard them say something so intrinsically condescending, fearful and hateful as you have said. Hell, the only time I've seen fear expressed in terms of birthrates amongst people of colour has come from KKK and white power organisations! Take a look at their history, Lizardfish - you'll find the propaganda about controlling the populations of blacks, latinos and jews. You'll find their raging fear of being "outpopulated" as a core tenet.

If these are the kinds of things that whites are saying behind our backs, and if this is what you really think of us, then the UBP has been a greater failure than anyone ever imagined! If there are black UBP MPs who have actually supported this thinking, have heard it openly and done nothing, then SHAME on you. If there are whites on this board who find Lizard's theory ridiculous, but you still remain silent, then SHAME on you.

I count myself as one who was DISGUSTED with the PLP's 2003 campaign, but your(Lizardfish's) duplicitous condescensions of the intelligence and moraltiy of black people leaves me DISGUSTED, HORRIFIED, FEARFUL, SADDENDED, EMBARRASSED and INFURIATED. I am sick to my stomach to think that I've been at a meeting, job interview, party, etc. with whites to only now hear that THIS is what some of you really think of us and say behind our backs. And for those of you who remain silent, there can be no trust among us if you do not see fit to stand against such bigoted views! You haven't received our trust because you don't deserve it.

[The Limey on 28.05.04 at 07:59]

Sycophant

"If these are the kinds of things that whites are saying behind our backs..."

As Bryant Trew is fond of saying, if we all spent more time with people of the opposite colour, none of us would make statements like this. We'd know that that's not how most people on the "other side" think.

[Lizardfish on 28.05.04 at 09:35]

Clearly syco - you have gotten hold of the wrong end of the stick and I doubt that I can direct you to the right end because you seem hell bent on portraying me as some black fearing baddie. I can assure you that I am not. I bet you will now tell me I am in denial of my fear.

To me it's pretty clear who has irrational fears here my friend.

If you were open minded and not so quick to jump to conclusions (because of some irrational fear you may have?), you would perhaps politely point out the possible misinterpretations of the KKK analogy and give me (and loki) the benefit of the doubt.

The PLP did in fact verbally encourage black proliferation (and damn it I can't find a reference but it seems to be common knowledge!). I did not say that all blacks went along with this masterplan in the hope that they would wipe out whities. Not at all. But the PLP did encourage this (though not in any policy) in order to gain power and in my opinion they exploit racist attitudes to remain in power.

I couldn't give two hoots if Bermuda ended up being 99.99% black. As long as we were all nice to each other and didn't have a government that encouraged social divides.

You may not agree with me that the PLP is partially to blame for current racial attitudes, but please don't tell me that I have this opinion because I am in fear of blacks. If I am absolutely wrong, it's because I have been misinformed, not because I have chosen to dream up some opinion based on my own hidden fears.

Anyway syco, that's it from me on this. You can continue to master the art of verbal manipulation but it's a very negative approach to debating and I'd much rather debate with someone like Jake (who has made an effort to be more understanding and less judgemental of points raised).

Have fun syco.

[lickinalong on 28.05.04 at 14:48]

One reason why I hate engaging in discussions on race in Bermuda is that it always seems so fruitless. Discussions usually begin with people being open and cordial. Over time positions harden and people present their views like a lawyer in a courtroom giving no room for understanding. In the heat of the discussion one side then bolsters their positions with an inappropriate example. From there all hell breaks loose and we become angry, accusatory and downright rude. Insults fly and both sides then leave the discussions convinced, as they believed from the outset, that the other sides are irrational racist idiots. Does this sound familiar Limey?

I have been following the discussions over the past month on this site and I have found that most of the posters including lizardfish and sycophant are individuals who are honestly concerned about our community and are trying to make sense of this confusing thing we call race. They both appear to be people of goodwill. Then why are they suddenly insulting each other?

By way of explanation, let me begin by saying that I have yet to meet anyone in Bermuda who is not racist. Let me give you an example. You are driving down the road and someone of a different race cuts in front of you almost causing an accident. Immediately a thought flashes through your head, “Those damn black/white people always act as though they own the road!” Instead of responding to the person, we respond to the person’s race which is essentially a racist act. We are all deep down inside racist but we spend a lot of time pretending not to be. So when we point our fingers at others and ignore the racism inside of us, we are really being two-faced. It is strange but we all have the capacity to hide this double standard and we will vociferously deny it. The fact is we are very effective at deceiving ourselves. Others can see this self-deception but we are totally blind to it. In our case lizardfish can see the self-deception in sycophant and sycophant can see it in lizardfish but neither of them can see it in themselves.

If you agree with my premise that all of us are racist and if you agree that the root of racism is ignorance then when it comes to issues of race we all are to one degree or another, ignorant. So we all need to learn something about the other race in Bermuda. We need to be educated. I can remember teachers that I had who sounded and acted a bit like sycophant and lizardfish. They’d ask a question and you would eagerly try to answer with something that was wrong and the teacher would embarrass and castigate you in front of the whole class. Of course the lesson that you learned was not to answer any questions in class!! One of the reasons why so few Bermudians either white or black, will participate in discussions on race is that they don’t want to be beat up like you beat up lizardfish and she beat up you. Here is my suggestion, rather than taking offense when people write or say something that seems offensive to you, try to act like a teacher not a lawyer. Recognize that they may not understand why they have been offensive. Try to understand the other person and help them to understand you.

Some time ago I came across an interesting book that I would like to recommend to you. It is entitled, “Leadership and Self Deception” written by the Arbinger Institute and is available at the Bermuda Book Store. This book isn’t about race but if you read it you will immediately see its application in the Bermuda context.

[Lizardfish on 28.05.04 at 15:32]

Thanks linckin for your points. However, I disagree with you that we all think of people's mistakes as "those damn whites/or blacks" and then outwardly deny it.

I know I don't think like this (you'll think this is my denial and I can't prove it's not you'd have to climb inside my head and that is just not possible at least not yet!) and although I agree that many people do think like you suggest, I know it's not 100%. I could be wrong but I grew up in a well mixed school here and left for England when I was 7, before I even learned what racism was. There I went to well mixed schools and only really experienced racism when I returned to Bermuda 4 years ago. So there really is no reason for me to think like that at all!

Bermudians can't drive. PERIOD! LOL.

I felt that no matter what I said sycophant was going to attack me and I am sorry if I seemed insulting in return (calling him syco was just me be lazy instead of typing the full name). I didn't mean to be. I just needed to leave because I gave it my best shot and tried to do the teacher bit but it didn't work.

I disagree that I am taking the lawyer stance. Lawyers don't cut and run after a few sensible attempts of expressing their side. They bang on at you until you give in or someone tells them to shut up. Well, that's what my sister is like and she is a lawyer :-)

Sometimes, you just gotta give up or at least walk away and leave it for a while. I'd come at it from every angle I could in my opinion and I am now going to duck for cover.

Sorry if I didn't appear to be sensible. I was trying to.

Peace
L.

[Sycophant on 28.05.04 at 22:00]

Lickenalong,

I agree with you 90%, and I have used the double-test on myself constantly to prove that not only am I a racist to whites, but being raised in a society that dehumanises blacks so much, I can also be racist towards blacks.

Now, the subject of education and ignorance is at the root of the orignal posts and responses in not only this thread, but many others.

I'll begin with the KKK analogy - not that I needed to spell this out again for Lizardfish, but I will anyway.

The reason why I pointed readers to the lynching photos and KKK websites was to demonstrate that blacks, latinos and jews are nothing but animals to the KKK AND its supporters. The ideology is based on racial and religious superiority, and the ultimate goal is the COMPLETE DESTRUCTION of anyone who is not white and those whites who would be treasonous enough to do any favours for people who are not white. The KKK is not merely about dominance, it sees all others as enemies that must be wiped from the face of the earth.

So, in order for an analogy to hold true for the PLP, one would have to demonstrate the SIMILAR virtues in the PLP. So I ask Lizardfish and Loki this:

1. Would the Klan make it easier for blacks to take up permanent residence in the US? The PLP did this for long-term residents, most of whom are white and are most likely to be UBP supporters.

2. Would the Klan invite Jews into their membership? The PLP had David Allen and Kutchler running for the PLP (sp?). The PLP also invite a white Scottsman to the island to comment on Bermuda's current political climate.

3. Would the Klan accept financing from Latinos? The PLP has been heavily financed by many white organisations and people.

4. Would the Klan promote blacks to the highest positions in Government? Renee Webb, the staunchest supporter of black empowerment has hired several key white Bermudians and non-Bermudians into her Ministries. The PLP has promted a white man to the head of the civil service (can't remember his name).

5. Do Klan supporters utter any criticism about the Klan's desire to eliminate non-anglo-saxons? Several PLP MPs, branch members and voters have condemned the PLP for the 2003 campaign.

6. Does the Klan and its supporters seek equality or destruction of all others? Yes. Can the same be shown about the PLP in its words, policies and practices? Have you seen anything at all in the PLP that is analogous to the KKK? I don't. I see the PLP as a party that is distrustful of whites, yet despite this, it is a party that has done very significant things to embrace non-blacks, even those they know are not likely to support them politically. Am I saying they are ideal? Hell no. But are they analogous to the KKK? You'd have to be ignorant of the KKK's agenda or so frightened of blacks to not see that an anlogy between the two groups does not exist.

And now for the real gem of Lizardfish's theory. She is now claiming, "I did not say that all blacks went along with this masterplan in the hope that they would wipe out whities." Now compare that to the sweeping generalisation she first made, "Was it not the PLP that encouraged blacks to fornicate in the trees in order to gain a black majority of voters? So look what we have now. An island overpopulated, with black people pumping out more children per person than whites, and a governing party who encouraged such a population boom, and is now struggling to house these people!"

Let's break it down shall we? I believe that Lizardfish is so afraid of blacks that she cannot see how phenomenally-illogical her theory is. What's worse is that she can't even provide a clear reference to the quote. That in itself is reprehensible, because if you are going to say something so potentially irresponsible and offensive you oh it to readers to know what the exact quote was, who said it, when it was said and in what context. At this point she is not able to do any of these, and the fact that she still uttered that theory with such a weak foundation shows incredible disrespect for black people. If you are going to make such a statement, then you owe that much to us as a matter of basic human dignity!

It doesn't stop there. The comment Lizardfish speaks of was made by Lois Brown Evans in the 1970's and was made once! Lizardfish cannot state whether the comment was serious or in jest. But, she has stated that it was not part of PLP policy. Um, how can something be part of a masterplan, but not be a part of party policy? Makes NO SENSE TO ME! How can you look at what is going on in 2004, and attribute that to a comment uttered once, that wasn't party policy and made in the 1970's? But let's assume Lois was serious with her statement (I don't know if she was or not). Lizardfish has proposed that there are blacks who heard the comment in the 70's, thought it was a good idea, and have been passing the agenda on from parent to child for the last 30 years. AND we've been so successful at following this plan that we now have a population problem!

I'm sorry Lizard, but if you think this, then you have a major problem. Your theory is so easily debunked that one would have to have to think very lowly of blacks to think there is validity in the theory:

1. At any time in the last say 25 years have you ever heard a single person encourage blacks to do what you propose? I AM BLACK, AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT I HAVE NEVER BEEN ADVISED TO POP OUT CHILDREN, I HAVE NEVER HEARD/READ A COMMENT FROM THE PLP ENCOURAGING ME TO DO SO AND I HAVE NEVER HEARD A RELATIVE OR FRIEND EVER, EVER, EVER, ENCOURAGE ME TO DO WHAT YOU PROPOSE.

2. Have you ever seen a UBP politician in the last 25 years express any concern about a PLP agenda to outpopulate whites? Surely if there was ANY seriousness in Lois' comment, the UBP would have exposed it OVER and OVER again.

3. Blacks have NOT given wholesale support to the PLP. Not in 1998, and not in 2003. Why then would they be popping out children for a party they don't fully support?

4. The black people I have known throughout my life are intelligent enough to know that such a plan would be asinine and entirely self-defeating. We are intelligent enough to either ignore Lois or assume that what she said was in jest - especially considering that this was NOT part of PLP policy.

5. Fornication and out of wedlock births are not the primary reasons for Bermuda's overpopulation problem. Our housing shortage is a lot more complex than that, and you have not even bothered to provide statistics to support your theory.

6. Throughout the 60's, 70's and 80's, while fornication, infidelity and out of wedlock births did occur in the black population, it was condemned in the black community. That no longer is the case and I would be is correlated to the the level of promiscuity that today exists not only among blacks, but whites as well.

7. Slavery and colonialism had basic principles of breaking up black families in order to weaken blacks as a group. Fathers were routinely separated from mothers, children were separated from parents, African languages were forbidden to be spoken as was African religion. Now you tell me, what kind of impact do you think that would have on the fabric of the black family over the last 100 years? I'd say plenty.

8. Bermuda's gross birthrate is NOT increasing; however, our expatriate population has grown incredibly fast. Bermuda's overpopulation problem is mostly due to our failure to plan for our future housing needs - not due to out of wedlock births being a masterplan to outpopulate whites.

9. In case you haven't noticed, whites are fornicating like hell too. Not only here, but everywhere else as well. Look to any relatively poor area of a society, regardless of race, and you will see the same pattern of irresponsible behaviour when it comes to birthcontrol.

10. Your quote, "and a governing party who encouraged such a population boom, and is now struggling to house these people!" The PLP came to power in 1998, hasn't repeated the fornicating comment since the 70's nor since they came to power. So how in the HELL can you attribute our population "problem" to the PLP?

In conclusion, you could have dismissed your theory entirely from the first point, but I have provided you with TEN. Now you tell me how you can justify your comment. As far as I'm concerned, it is a deep seeded fear of blacks that has allowed you to consider something so absurd to have validity. Whereas you normally post some well-thoughout points of view, something else took over and led you to ENTIRELY dismiss the most simplistic facts right before you.

[BDA JOE on 29.05.04 at 00:03]

"1. Would the Klan make it easier for blacks to take up permanent residence in the US? The PLP did this for long-term residents, most of whom are white and are most likely to be UBP supporters."

Let me remind you that blacks have been 'permanent residents' of the US for nearly as long as whites themselves. I'm no KKK expert, but I'm quite sure that most of them accept the fact that blacks are there to stay. Furthermore, I think your comment represents a mindset amongst the ordinary black, PLP Bermudian voter. That mindset being that expatriates and whites are one and the same. I think it's a dangerous fusion between racist and xenophobic beliefs.

In addition, within the context of the PLP-KKK analogy that point is completely off-base. Expatriates are, by definition, foreigners. While the vast majority arriving in Bermuda might be white, you cannot take any action on the part of the government that could be seen as benefiting ex-pats, and portray it as benefiting whites. It just doesn't equate. I'm reacting to your comment in this manor because I happen to know a black ex-pat who I'm sure would be very offended to hear this.

"3. Would the Klan accept financing from Latinos? The PLP has been heavily financed by many white organizations and people."

Care to back this claim? Do you have any facts, figures or otherwise historical records to prove this besides what is 'general knowledge'? If not, please withdraw it.

"4. Would the Klan promote blacks to the highest positions in Government? Renee Webb, the staunchest supporter of black empowerment has hired several key white Bermudians and non-Bermudians into her Ministries. The PLP has prompted a white man to the head of the civil service (can't remember his name)."

The KKK does not appoint people (black or otherwise) to the United States government. Indeed the two institutions have historically been hostile towards eachother. This is where I think you are taking the analogy too literally. The KKK is an organization that represents a specific ideology. The PLP is an organization that provides people with power and remuneration. Do you think the amount of whites in the PLP and blacks in the UBP would be the same if they were just 'clubs' where people could go and share there true political and social beliefs with others?

"5. Do Klan supporters utter any criticism about the Klan's desire to eliminate non-anglo-saxons? Several PLP MPs, branch members and voters have condemned the PLP for the 2003 campaign."

No. However, they would condemn the KKK for burning crosses and bombing black churches. Both of which are demonstrations of the KKK's core ideology. They wouldn't condemn the organization's ideology (the elimination of non anglo-saxons as you describe it), otherwise why would they be clan-members. Just as the PLP members might condemn the 2003 campaign, but they won't denounce the ideology for the advancement of the black race. Otherwise, they wouldn't be PLP voters.

"You'd have to be ignorant of the KKK's agenda or so frightened of blacks to not see that an analogy between the two groups does not exist."

Let me remind you what the original point of this thread was 'Are whites responsible for integrating the PLP'. Then swingvoter came on and said that this would be like blacks being responsible for integrating the KKK. I think he did this to demonstrate to blacks the white position on this issue. Either way, it was a fair comment. Is that comparing the lynching and cross burning to the Berkley affair and the 2003 campaign? Definitly not.

I don't always agree with SV, Loki and lizardfish. However, I think you need to stop resorting to straw-man arguments and taking people's remarks out of context.

[Fornicator on 29.05.04 at 02:03]

"I'm no KKK expert, but I'm quite sure that most of them accept the fact that blacks are there to stay."

Bermuda Joe - Do you ever look into something before rattling off an opinion? Anyone with internet access can do a search on the KKK and find out that the KKK and Neo Nazis do not accept any non-whites in their country. They never have and never will. For your own edification, PLEASE look here: http://www.kkk.bz/program.htm

**********

"Furthermore, I think your comment represents a mindset amongst the ordinary black, PLP Bermudian voter. That mindset being that expatriates and whites are one and the same. I think it's a dangerous fusion between racist and xenophobic beliefs."

Check the Census 2000 Bermuda Joe. I wonder if you would believe it, but check it anyway. In 1991 72% of the foreign born population was white, vs 19% black. In 2000 it was 66% white, 19% black. If you are going to talk about the long term residents in terms of race, I'm sure you'd find that the percentage of whites was even greater than 72% simply because Bermuda's expatriate population was even less diverse back when the moratorium on status was put in place.

**********

"In addition, within the context of the PLP-KKK analogy that point is completely off-base. Expatriates are, by definition, foreigners. While the vast majority arriving in Bermuda might be white, you cannot take any action on the part of the government that could be seen as benefiting ex-pats, and portray it as benefiting whites. It just doesn't equate. I'm reacting to your comment in this manor because I happen to know a black ex-pat who I'm sure would be very offended to hear this."

Give me a break Bermuda Joe, and don't insult our intelligence. If the PLP refused to deal with the long term residents issue, the first thing you'd claim is, "I bet if those expats were mostly from the Caribbean the PLP would have given them status in a heartbeat". You wouldn't be attempting to separate the statistical fact that the vast majority of long term residents were white AND statistically proven to not give political support to the PLP. The PLP did something which dramatically contradicts the idea that whites are their enemies - and let's not forget, they did this in their FIRST TERM of Government. Give the PLP its due and move on, Bermuda Joe.

2. Wise of you to completely ignore Sycophant's second point. Wouldn't want you to have to respond to a point that undermines your entire argument.

**********

3. You know for certain that campaign financing is very secret in Bermuda. Sycophant couldn't provide facts on this even if he had them. He couldn't prove white support of the PLP any more than the UBP could prove that it gets financial supports from blacks. What IS proven though is that BOTH parties have strong connections with very wealthy people from both race groups. AND it is a well known fact that one of the parties had problems paying its bills after the 1998 election while the other did not due to financial backers (allegedly) diverting funds.

**********

4. "The KKK does not appoint people (black or otherwise) to the United States government."

So what's that got to do with anything? The KKK want to take OVER the US Government, and the point Sycophant was clearly making is that the KKK does not appoint its "enemies" to ANY positions within the Klan organisation - let alone a high-paying position of considerable power. Ever seen a black Grand Dragon or a Jewish Grand Wizard? I don't think so!

**********

5. "[Klan supporters] would condemn the KKK for burning crosses and bombing black churches. Both of which are demonstrations of the KKK's core ideology."

Bermuda Joe - read up on the KKK, white power and neo nazi movements. Please read the section on illegal immigrants on that web page before you start to make a passive defence of KKK supporters!

**********

"You'd have to be ignorant of the KKK's agenda or so frightened of blacks to not see that an analogy between the two groups does not exist."

"Let me remind you what the original point of this thread was 'Are whites responsible for integrating the PLP'. Then swingvoter came on and said that this would be like blacks being responsible for integrating the KKK. I think he did this to demonstrate to blacks the white position on this issue. Either way, it was a fair comment. Is that comparing the lynching and cross burning to the Berkley affair and the 2003 campaign? Definitly not."

Sycophant, nor Jake have argued that there is a literal comparison. Jake is offended that some of you would not be sensitive enough to avoid such comparisons, and Sycophant has shown quite clearly that the KKK regards blacks, jews, latinos, etc to be their enemy. If you want to demonstrate an analogy between the PLP and whites, then you need to make a case of the PLP and its supporters treating whites as their enemy. You need to provide evidence that equality is NOT what the PLP seeks. You have to make a case that the PLP wants to get rid of whites on analogous terms - none of you have done this so far, so how can it be a fair comment? If you can't make that case, or can only attempt to make it by dismissing facts, then this is not a debate - it's political dogma.

Cya latter Bda-Joe. More power to anyone how chooses to give the KKK the benefit of the doubt over cross burnings and church bombings.

PS: Could you clarify, "Do you think the amount of whites in the PLP and blacks in the UBP would be the same if they were just 'clubs' where people could go and share there true political and social beliefs with others?"

*********

Now where my bitches at? Ho better bring me my money.

[lickinalong on 29.05.04 at 09:30]

Lizardfish, I appreciate that you may be that one person in a million who is not racist but I am not sure that is the case. Have you never had a racist thought? Have you never tolerated racist comments by others?. If you haven't then you are truly an extraordinary person and I stand in awe.

In retrospect equating the PLP to the KKK was not a good analogy. The PLP is by no means and has never been anything like the KKK. So lets put that one to rest. However what I found interesting was that when that analogy was first used it did not jump out at me as being innapropriate. It took sycophant to bring that to my attention. Why is that the case?

When I was growing up in Bermuda the PLP was universally despised by most white Bermudians. In retrospect the white community overstated the PLP's failings and shortcomings (and there were many) to the point that most whites equated PLP with the word "bad" and the UBP with the word "good". A good example is Dame Lois' alleged statement encouraging PLP supporters to "fornicate in the bushes". There is some question as to whether she ever said it, but in any event it was jumped on by UBP politicians as an example of the irresponsibility of the PLP. That one statement has now become part of Bermuda's political mythology. Of all the thousands of words spoken by Dame Lois over the years why should that one statement remain the one indellibly imprinted in our heads so that decades later it is still used in arguments about the PLP? Bizarre!!!

The PLP, like all political bodies is a work in progress. At this point it is a black party with black members and a bias towards black Bermudians. Whatever discrimination that is occuring at the moment against white Bermudians by the PLP is pretty mild compared to what occured to black Bermudians prior to 1961. In fact I have been surprised at how mild it has been. I expected a backlash by the PLP but surpringly they have been very pragmatic. It is good to object to this discrimination but let's keep it in perspective. As a work in progress I sense that the PLP are learning from their mistakes and are becomming more moderate in their racial views. As I have stated before I don't think the PLP want any white members. A lot of the politics that are occuring are what I would call "our turn" politics and the PLP would prefer to have their turn as a totally black party. Their occasional anti-white statements actively discourage whites from joining them. Why join a political party that really does not want you or like you? If the PLP holds onto this position they will find that they will become, like the dinosaur, extinct. The long term future in Bermuda lies with a racially mixed political party. The PLP may be able to eke it out for another couple of elections as a black party. In the meantime the UBP is making real progress as a racially mixed party. Grant Gibbons has reached out to a diverse group of black Bermudians and quietly it is becoming a truly integrated organization. Strangely the party that many believe is the biased white party in Bermuda, is now becoming a model of integration and the party that stood for and fought for the rights of an oppressed majority is remaining a segregated party.

[Fornicator on 29.05.04 at 11:31]

"Of all the thousands of words spoken by Dame Lois over the years why should that one statement remain the one indellibly imprinted in our heads so that decades later it is still used in arguments about the PLP? Bizarre!!!"

Lick,

In my professional and personal life I have come to the conclusion that on psychological terms both blacks AND whites have been braindamaged by Bermuda's past and continued failure to discuss "US" as a people.

I've seen some black Bermudians refuse to associate themselves with anything black. One child in particular told me to my face that her father isn't black, but is white because she goes to private school, the parents have "white jobs" and they live in a million dollar house. I've had several older blacks tell me that they refuse to purchase professional services from blacks because they can't be trusted or just don't know what they are doing... The list goes on, and I've seen some of the same kinds of incomprehensible thoughts come from whites. One of my very best mates was quite frank when he said, "Listen bye, white people ain't gonna support independence because thah worried bout ya black ass rioting in de street. All you byes up de regiment with access to guns. Bye no bye dat ain't gonna happen" :-) I still laugh at his comment today, because he shared it out of love, respect and honesty. Nevertheless, my point is that HE was well aware of the f'd up psychology that still exists today among many white Bermudians.

Here's another thought for you. I distinctly recall that even as far as 1989, you would rarely see people of colour in Trimingham's and Smith's page 3 newspaper ads. If you recall, those two companies used to dominate pages 3-4 on a regular basis. Anyway, it was pretty obvious when blacks started to appear in the ads. You turned the page one day and it was like, "Shit a dark-skinned person! Wow!" :-) My timing could be off, but I think that this coincided with a world shift towards dark skinned blacks (like Djimon Honsou). Bermuda followed suit when people like him and Naomi Campbell became common on fashion runways - soon after you didn't only see white models or only very light skinned blacks. Darkies like me were appearing in the ads too.

I share this to point out that lighter skinned blacks are commonly called "fair-skinned". And if your hair is somewhat straight instead of kinjked, we actually call that "good hair". These terms are used even today, and I'm of the belief that this is a direct result of Western society's psychology of white = the standard of beauty. It's so messed up that I even had a white woman point out to me once that as a brown eye'd brunette she feels less beautiful than the Cosmo blue-eyed, blonde-haired, 105lb waif that is the current "standard".

Didn't mean to ramble on with that point, but I concur that we're all screwed up on some level. And, the only way to move forward is to acknowledge the possibility that on some level we have all been f'd in the head. I'm waiting for the day that we will denounce and decry bigotry no matter what the source. That's when we'll know when we've arrived.

PS: I know that there are several people in the UBP who are trying to change, and I know that there are a great deal of white UBP voters who want change, but I think you give far too much credit to those running the party. It seems like just about every three months someone is sharing a story with me that would make your skin crawl. Politicians are pretty evil sons a bitches - don't believe the UBP hype just yet.

[lickinalong on 30.05.04 at 11:14]

Fornicator, I appreciate your openness and honesty. I agree that we are all messed up by this thing called race. I appreciate your honesty in admitting that you are at times racist towards whites. Much of the discussion on this site is really about whites trying to get blacks to admit that they are racist and blacks trying to get whites to admit that they are racist. The problem is that while we are trying to get the other race to admit to their failings we refuse to face up to our own racism. So we are stuck in this impasse, both seeing racism in each other but refusing to admit it in ourselves. It is so much easier to admit the truth that we all can be racist from time to time and then try to deal with the inevitability of that racism.

It is interesting how the different races deal with our messed-upness. White Bermudians tend to deal with it primarily through denial. Our forefathers may have been racist but we are not racist so why are black Bermudians blaming me? I’m blameless!! In extreme cases we may get very angry at the accusation and that results in the ranting and raving you see on the Bermuda Free Speech site – self-righteous bile. Black Bermudians in contrast now seem to be dealing with their messed-upness through anger. Certainly denial is a part of it such as the young woman who declared she is white, but more and more anger seems to be the order of the day. It has taken 4 decades but freedom has finally allowed black Bermudians to be angry. Before that anger was kept beneath the surface because it was dangerous to be an angry black in a segregated society. Like most people I get angry every so often but it is not a constant part of my being. I fear for many black Bermudians that may not be the case. Anger is constantly with them and gets constantly fed by what they see and hear in our society. Could it be that excessive anger is at the root of what Rolfe Commissiong calls the black male problem? Could it be that the reason that so many black males are unable to lead successful and fulfilling lives and lead lives that are so self-destructive is that they are so angry? Could it be that the lower lifespan of black males is due to the health impact of constant anger? I have noticed on the odd occasion that I get angry I do not make very good decisions. I can’t imagine being constantly angry and being able to lead a happy and fulfilling life.

[Fornicator on 30.05.04 at 13:09]

"It has taken 4 decades but freedom has finally allowed black Bermudians to be angry. Before that anger was kept beneath the surface because it was dangerous to be an angry black in a segregated society."

Hmmm... I think for many this might be the case, and it certainly would be an expected reaction. But I don't think the anger we are seeing today is completely about the past. I often try to slice problems down bit by bit, bulling away the layers of the onion. What often strikes me with awe is that the way politicians act in the political realm is frequently and hugely different from how they act in person. Some politicians who do the most asinine things up at the House are actually very decent and progressive thinkers. Some politicians who appear to be the most decent and wise human beings up at the House are actually the ones screwing us over! It really is quite extraordinary, and I encourage people to try to separate voters from politicians, because the politicians do not necessarily represent what the voters think at all times.

That said, in my circle of blacks which stretches from the bluest collar to the whitest collar (sporting cufflinks), these people aren't "exhaling" right now. Many have a serious distrust of whites and are very cynical about whether or not whites are truly interested in real equality. But, they aren't walking around kicking stones in the street about what the white man did to them.

In most political conversations I'm in, the focus isn't even on what the UBP did, it's now on what the PLP isn't doing. These people aren't angry IMO, they just aren't believing the political transformation the UBP is selling. And, mostly because we are segregated, blacks do not have enough reason to now trust whites (see buggywhip, sycophant and bdajoe's post above). There is so much historical reason for blacks to not trust whites, that the distrust will continue for decades unless A) We begin to desegregate on purely altruistic terms, and not the BS integration that has existed in politics, and/or B) Whites start to openly denounce white bigoty. The latter I think would be the most powerful thing that whites can do. For example, I consider the Bermuda Sloop Foundation to f'ing amazing example of an outstretched hand of trust from the white community to the black community (http://www.bermudasloop.org/).

Now keep in mind that I am talking about an age bracket of 30 and above. The anger that we are seeing today is predominantly 30 and below. This is not an insignificant fact. I'll discuss more about this when I can get to the dysfunctional black male thread, but succinctly the 30 and below age group is hostile to EVERYONE, and not just whites. These guys just don't know how to deal with anger, and are being raised in an era that is devoid of virtue.

Gotta run...

PS: By any chance were you taxied to a gathering by the seaside in St. David's last Saturday?

[lickinalong on 31.05.04 at 17:01]

Fornicator, No I wasn’t at the event in St. Davids.

I agree with your assessment of politicians. Politics is a game and the successful politicians tend to be the best game players who are good at playing with voters heads. Saying one thing in public and another in private is part of the game. Most of them are in politics for reasons of status, recognition, personal influence and personal gain. They will of course deny this. It is not surprising that there are plenty of “wolves in sheep’s clothing” and vice versa in politics. I am an optimist and am always so hopeful that this will change but I have to remind myself of the one constancy of politics namely, “feet of clay”. Thanks for the reminder.

It seems to me that we are going through a period of transition where most of us do not trust others of the other race. I think that most of us want to get to that point but we just can’t get there. There appears to be a high level of self-sensitivity on both sides of this racial divide to the point that we tend to interpret what others say and do in the worst possible light. We are constantly testing each other and finding each other lacking. There is not enough goodwill for us to give the other the benefit of the doubt so we are constantly getting our worst fears about the other race reinforced. I take your point that the most powerful thing that white’s can do at this point is speak up when we see or hear racism. We are quick enough to respond to racism that we see directed at us but shy away from racism that is directed at blacks. I think that a lot of racism that occurs in Bermuda, both white on black and black on white is due to insensitivity and ignorance. For example when Renee Webb spoke in the House of Assembly that the PLP would favor “people who look like me”, she was thinking of the legitimate desire to improve opportunities for black Bermudians. No-one can doubt the worthwhileness of that goal. I don’t think she thought about the impact that statement would have on the white community. It has now become one of those statements, like Lois Browne-Evans’ “fornicate in the bushes”, that has become part of the folklore of the white community to be unearthed whenever we engage in discussions with black Bermudians on race. It is one of those statements that prove our worst beliefs about the PLP and the black community and that is why we cling to it. It’s the “gotcha” statement. I think the black community has “gotcha” statements too.

The only way that I can see us building trust is through personal contact. About 15 years ago I approached the Human Rights Commission with the suggestion that they should sponsor a day or week where Bermudians would be urged to invite for dinner or lunch, someone of a different race. Inviting someone into your home and breaking bread with them is one of the best ways to break down barriers. I know it sounds a bit contrived but you have to start somewhere.

[Lickinalong on 31.05.04 at 17:29]

Fornicator, I want to go back to your previous post since I am trying to digest it in small pieces. Some time ago, I had the privilege of being the only white person at a meeting of black professionals who were discussing their education. Most of them had attended Berkeley in the 60s and 70s but one particularly bright and talented man had not. He pointed out that he did not get into Berkeley because he was too black. They all acknowledged this black prejudice of the day. I say that I was privileged because black Bermudians seldom open up this way in the presence of white Bermudians. For some reasons blacks do not want to share information on their culture with whites and as a result most of us in the white community have only a fleeting knowledge and understanding of the black Bermudian culture. What we do know we tend to misinterpret and view as being strange and bizarre. Perhaps that’s why blacks do not open up. It appears that the light-skinned preference of black Bermudians still persists. Most of the leaders of the PLP are light skinned. One major exception and probably the most capable politician in Bermuda today, is Paula Cox. When her father died there were some strange (at least to me) references in letters to the editor about his African features. Your post reminded me of that and I now think that I understand that what people were saying is that in spite of his black skin and African features, features that gave him a lesser chance of success, he was still a success. That totally washed over me at that time. Is this preference for fair-skinnedness disappearing or is it still alive and well?

I have another theory that I would like to pass by you. In some ways I think it may be more difficult to be black today than it was in the 1950s when segregation was in full force. On several occasions I have been surprised to hear black Bermudians looking fondly back on those days in part because of the sense of community that existed in the black community at that time. Over time I believe that the black community developed a set of cultural values and rules which promoted survival in a harsh social environment. Let me give an example. One of these rules I believe (and I stand to be corrected) was in order to survive, you had to stay under the white man’s radar. So the rule of thumb was don’t take too much initiative or be visible or the man’ll get you. That worked in a segregated society where opportunities were next to non-existent but in a freer society where initiative plays a major role in success, it is counterproductive. In many ways the old rules do not work anymore but they are still firmly in the heads of those who have lived through the current transition and in some cases are still being taught by parents to their children. If such is the case I think it must be frustrating to find these time worn rules no longer work. It would be a bit like being given a map of a city that you are visiting except there has been a printing error and the wrong name of the city has been printed on the map. As a result the map makes absolutely no sense. The problem is that no-one realizes that and the world views you as being stupid and ignorant. In time you may even begin to agree with that assessment. But the problem is not with you, it is with the map. What do you think?

[akinola on 28.01.05 at 16:02]

The onus is on Government, because they hold the $700million purse. This is the trash they used in the last general election vote black for black. Black people need to condemn the PLP as fat pigs while WE the poor work like dogs. Whites need to fight for poor blacks instead of corrupt black businessmen who are afraid of accountability.

[gatha's son on 24.05.05 at 06:45]

I for the life of me cannot understand why black people constantly harrass white people about joining their organisations. People prefer to be with their own kind so leave them alone! It seems as if some black people are so devoid of self worth that they constantly seek to join white organisations. White people do not need or want to join black organisations nor will they agree that their forefathers profited from the slave trade.
For clarification, I am black.

[sal on 24.05.05 at 10:30]

cal smith is king of the race pimps,he must continually stir the pot so there can never be a solution to the problem.His power is derived only when the racism false alarm sounds. Should a problem be solved, should there ever cease to be racism in this island, cal,rolf,guilden,alvin williams,roosevelt brown,Laverne and her court st. whiners , the whole PLP black cadre who line their pockets,pimping off the taxpayers, are out of a job!