Flying The Flag

In the spirit of the Imagine Bermuda project, I'd like to suggest something that every Bermudian could do that might help bring the Island a smidgen closer together.

The idea came to me as I was heading into St. George's the other day and noticed this house flying a Bermudian flag from its front porch. While it's almost impossible to travel a block in small-town America without seeing the Stars and Stripes fluttering in the wind, it's rare to see Bermudian homes flying the Island's flag.

I'm normally somewhat scornful of Americans who fly their flag in their yard, perhaps because I find it difficult to distinguish American patriotism with the kind of arrogance that led to the Iraq war. I'm also suspicious of the obsessive reverence with which some Americans handle it. Occasionally I have to fight the urge to wrench it from them, hurl it into the mud, jump up and down on it, then set it alight.

But if such silliness can be avoided, in a place like Bermuda I think flying the flag would be rather healthy, particularly at a time when the Government is insisting that Bermudians will only have national pride when the Island is independent.

Comments

[Nitjanirasu on 28.09.04 at 19:26]

Considering all the laws surround proper handling, etc. of the US flag, they'll probably be legally obliged to attack you...;-)

[Graeme Outerbridge on 28.09.04 at 21:39]

When I was younger the back of my favourite denim jacket was emblazoned with a Bermuda Flag...now this flag wearing Outerbridge habit has skipped a generation..My daughter who attends Miami University just e-mailed a picture of her favourite sneakers...You got it- she has painted the Bermuda Flag over those nikes....Hows that for flying the flag?

[John Barnett on 29.09.04 at 07:24]

All Americans are not arrogant. The vast majority are ordinary folks who care about their country and have immense pride in what it has done for them, the opportunity it offers and the ability they have to express their opposition without getting arrested, thrown in jail or executed. This pride is expressed by flying the flag. Don't confuse pride with arrogance.

[Graeme Outerbridge on 29.09.04 at 08:44]

Yes they have such pride in the USA that they shoot about 20,000 of themselves every year with hand guns and many millions of them live well below the poverty line and their economy consumes about seventy percent of the yearly global production of raw materials and they elect their president undemocratically through electoral college while half the registered voters of the country do not bother to vote.Every year 50,000 US citzens die on their roads many for not obeying the speed limit and others from impaired driving. Meanwhile they start war over oil and are about to do the same with Iran because of biological weapons and possible nuclear devices. Chose your sides for the New crusades there is no place for neutrals in the New World order of Uncle Sam. Better salute those stars and stripes or you will be dealt with.

[loki on 29.09.04 at 10:02]

C'mon Graeme

Those comments are way out of line: I hate the Bush administration as much as the next man, but having pride in one's country is not the same as having pride in one's Government. You can love the country and be proud of it, but that doesn't mean that you have to be proud of your Government and every aspect of your country's culture.

[Tiger Bay on 29.09.04 at 10:21]

Oh catboy Graeme. For all its faults, the US is most likely most free country in the world, and one that offers the most potential for individuals live as they wish and to acheive.

Some parts of the US suck ... but you think the "responsible" EU is better? State controlled North Korea?

I've got three flags - the US, Bermuda, and Tibet. And you if you come near them, I'll run you over with my humvee before I shoot you.

[hurricane alex on 29.09.04 at 11:06]

Too much coffee this morning Graeme?

Yikes! I defer to Loki's comments on this one.

[Eve on 29.09.04 at 11:15]

Why is that some people from a country that has a history of being patriotic and overbearingly proud (arrogant) have great trouble understanding American's allegiance to their flag? Could it be they didn't pay attention in History class, are not proud of their own country's history, don't have anything to feel patriotic about themselves or do they belong to that group who can't control their underlying envy of Americans? Yes, there are overbearing Americans with a multitude of faults none of which takes away their love of and devotion to their country as shown by their allegiance to the American flag. How Americans treat their flag and the war in Iraq have nothing to do with Bermudians showing more patriotism by flying their flag. God forbid Bermudians got so patriotic about their flag they might become like Americans, is that what your are implying? I can just imagine the uproar here if Americans said similar things about the Queen that you say about their flag. Your rhetoric only perpetuates these kinds of ridiculous statements.

[Eric on 29.09.04 at 11:17]

While I am American, I don't tend to differ too much in my opinion of the country than Graeme appears to.
That said, one has to chuckle since nearly every one of those figures (assuming you can replace gun references with machete references) can be made in a similar light here in Bermuda, but put into the proper scale of perspective with Bermuda's population size.

To be fair though, Bermuda has never gone on the attack against anyone that I recall in the history that I have read - perhaps due to the lack of military might (which is a good thing in this case - one less place to waste government expenditure).

As for flying the flag - would that give a sense of patriotism, or amplify a sense of nationalism? And does it matter either way?

I personally feel that most of the American flag waving that one sees today is in light of post 9/11 "everyone else is doing it" thinking.
After all, it is far easier to wave a flag and feel better about being patriotic than to actually do something to better the country (this effect of course is amplified when you see a flag on an SUV).

[Nitjanirasu on 29.09.04 at 12:04]

I'm not going to stick around and argue the point, however:

Loki: so...you're saying that murder, traffic accidents, poverty and the US electoral system are all the fault of the Bush Administration?
I, too, dislike the Bush Administration, but Graeme's comments are true: many Americans act as if they have the perfect nation, and run around saying that they are the only island of democracy in a sea of chaos, and yet their leader isn't even elected by the people.

Tiger Bay: Care to give any justification to as why you are saying that the US is "most likely [the] most free country in the world"? As opposed to, say, Bermuda, and, in fact, any country which doesn't have a Patriot Act (or similar laws)? You compare the US against North Korea and the EU, one of which isn't a country and the other has (one of) the worst regimes...how about you compare to, say, Canada? Or European countries? Australia? Japan?

Americans often complain when people from other countries criticize (or, more commonly, worse) them, and say that they and their country are seperate entities from their government. However, when they --run around telling other countries that the US has "the government of the people" and no other country does--, well, then, they're just setting themselves up and really shouldn't act surprised.

As I said before, I'm not going to bother arguing the point any further.

[loki on 29.09.04 at 12:30]

"Loki: so...you're saying that murder, traffic accidents, poverty and the US electoral system are all the fault of the Bush Administration?"

No, Graeme refered to government actions, as well as general cultural and crime issues. I'm simply saying that it's wrong to criticize people for having pride in their nation, despite problems that that nation may have and issues that one may have with the government of that country. If suggested that Bermudians had no right to have pride in their nation because of the ongoing gang violence issues and corruption in BHC, for example, they'd be told to hop it, sharpish.

[Tiger Bay on 29.09.04 at 12:54]

Bermuda's the only country with a wild devil sea monster on its flag. Now THAT is cool.

[Nancy on 29.09.04 at 12:57]

Bush sucks, America doesn't. Why do you care if I wave my flag, wear it, or tattoo it on my behind? Sounds like you need to get a life. Yes, America has some problems, BIG ones....so does England, starting with simple dental hygiene. The average American is not arrogant and is not represented by the Bush administration. I hope that you wave your country's flag proudly and that it means something to you. Must you detract from someone's pride in their homeland (even with all of its flaws) in order to feel better about your own?

[Nicolette on 29.09.04 at 13:38]

Hmmm...very anti-American, almost sounds personal...methinks that the limey has had his heart broken by an American gal. I'm currently in Belize and in my many travels have found Americans to be warm, open, welcoming and tolerant. I haven't had the same experience with Brits but remain optimistic. : )

[The Limey on 29.09.04 at 13:59]

I didn't bring up the American flag to have a go at the US. I did so in an attempt to explain how I could hold the seemingly contradictory positions of believing Bermudians should fly their flag more while wishing Americans did it less.

Loki is absolutely right that we should distinguish pride in country from pride in Government. I remember being in Hong Kong on the night that territory was handed back to China and chatting with some local (Hong Kong) Chinese. Their feelings about the handover were mixed: delight at being reunited with their motherland but fearful of its Government.

I try to make the same distinction with the United States, but don't always find it easy. While there's certainly nothing wrong with an American taking pride in their homeland, I see it as the thin end of a nationalistic wedge. The fact remains that the side of the US that is most visible to foreigners is its foreign policy. It's hard to think positive thoughts about the inhabitants of a country when that country's foreign policy is so vile and those inhabitants were the ones who put that Government where it is. I know a number of very lovely Americans but my interest in foreign affairs means I hear more from George Bush than I do from them, and that does skew my opinion of the country. On the other hand, I can sympathise with the Chinese despite the awfulness of their Government because they’re living in a Communist regime. Any American who would judge me harshly for thinking this way should consider their current feelings towards, say, the French.

I never felt the urge to fly a Union Jack while I was living in the UK because, well, I never felt that much loyalty to the place. It's too big, with too many problems, to be an object of reverence.

Bermuda is different. It's small, and its problems are tractable. It’s the kind of place that inspires a sense of pride and loyalty not because you can express your opinion without getting thrown in jail or because it’s some unparalleled “land of opportunity”. It just does. That’s loyalty of the purest kind, and that’s why I’d proudly wave a Bermudian flag long before I would that of the UK or the US.

[ace on 29.09.04 at 14:21]

I agree with Tiger Bay, I just think the sea monster should be bigger.

gggrrrrrooowwlllll

:)

Nancy, making a point by slamming British dental hygene? Pot meet kettle.

[Jim on 29.09.04 at 15:33]

Limey, Eve was so politely right about you. You want to dismiss history, are not a citizen of a country you feel any loyalty to let alone be patriotic too and have a number of issues about who you really are. From your explanation I wonder if you have any loyalty to or trust in yourself. When you started your site I thought you might be the future of Bermuda but you need to grow up before people will respect your opinion enough to let you have any influence on their thinking. You sound more like a sour lemon that a Limey.

[Mrs J Gault on 29.09.04 at 17:40]

Occasionally I have to fight the urge to wrench it from them, hurl it into the mud, jump up and down on it, then set it alight.

But if such silliness can be avoided

Im sorry Limey....did you just define stomping and setting alight a nations flag as "Silliness"?
When I see an angry mob of people stomping on any nations flag or setting it on fire I would never define those actions as "Silliness". It is called hate Limey.

In addition, I am interested to know how many small American towns you have driven through since 9/11. Are you sure you have'nt just watched to many Cheverolet commercials. As a native New Yorker from a "small town" I can tell you that I did fly my flag post 9/11. Not out of support for George but out of respect and support for my neighbors some of whom lost loved ones that day.

Graeme- How much did Michael Moore pay you to post your message? I see more risky behavior on my short ride home from Hamilton to Warwick every evening than I ever saw on the Long Island Express Way.

John Barnett was correct. You have assumed Americans with pride are arrogant. America is a great country but it is just like each of us...it has faults.

[YYZ on 29.09.04 at 17:41]

Go ahead jim, just tell him he's un-'merican.

[The Limey on 29.09.04 at 17:52]

Jim - I'm sorry, I don't understand. Why do you say that I want to dismiss history? What are these "issues" you think I have, and on what basis do you say that? And what do you mean when you say "I wonder if you have any loyalty to or trust in yourself"? Just because I happen not to feel patriotic about the UK?

Mrs Gault - No, by "silliness" I was referring to those attitudes which characterise defacing the US flag as some awful crime. A flag is just a colourful rag. Burning or defacing it could be a result of hate but it could also be a legitimate act of protest.

[Jonathan on 29.09.04 at 18:24]

Ths US flag is seen by many Americans as a symbol of freedom and democracy. It also serves as a symbol of remembrance of all of the men and women who have died to preserve the values that America protects and projects. Burning the flag is seen as trivializing/scorning those deaths. I'm not American, but I wouldn't burn their flag, just out of respect...

[Jim on 29.09.04 at 19:45]

Sorry Limey...I assumed you knew that the first American flag in 1776 was really a slap to the face of King George III. It was flown to show the King the United Colonies had national pride and unity. Unfortunately there are those Loyalists who to this day cannot accept that. Ever since then many Americans have given their lives for what that flag represents. It is far from being just a colourful rag, it represents something you obviously don't understand and don't have. You may prefer to wave the Bermuda flag but I doubt you would die for it because you don't understand people who would. Dying for a country sure out-weighs dying for religion.

You are reaching for straws by making reference to France, even you should know that. One of your issues is you can't find much to really have a firm opinion on when you keep attempting to tell your self something different. You have contradictory positions and statements.

When you understand why not just Americans would die for their flag you may be less confused yourself. Take the time to re-read the comments of others a well as your own. A countries flag represents all those who accept it as national pride and untity. You are like an orphan who has no family to give them love and pride, just lost somewhere and not really to sure where.

When you understand how Americans feel about their flag, then your statement about bringing Bermudians a smidgen closer will have some real meaning. Until then you are just making noise..

[David on 29.09.04 at 19:56]

Bill Hicks got it right when he made fun of people accused of burning flags going to jail. Its just a bit of cloth, tho a symbol of democracy, where you have the freedom to do things, such as burn a piece of cloth.....

[loki on 29.09.04 at 20:10]

Jim, I don't particularly agree with Phil's point of view, but your two posts do seem to engage in a wee bit too much tenuous psychoanalysis for my taste. I think Phil's point of view may be slightly easier to understand (correct me if I'm wrong here, Phil) if you appreciate just how many Brits feel quite ambivalent about the Union Flag and what it has come to represent to some people: oppression of the Scottish and Irish, fascism (it was adopted by racist skinheads in the late 70's/early 80's, and Oswald Mosely and his brownshirts wasn't that long ago), racism (the BNP, anyone?) Now, as a dislocated Brit/Bermudian, I can appreciate the ambivalence of some people, even if I don't share that ambivalence myself.

[ace on 29.09.04 at 20:16]

Maybe this will help some of you understand why Limey feels a bit jaded when it comes to a lack of patriotism:

http://www.youthofbritain.com/guvnor/

[Canuck on 29.09.04 at 20:49]

Give us a break if that is why Limey is jaded about his lack of patriotism to the UK he must be dark green living in Bermuda. Limey can be as jaded or green as he wants about his own lack of patriotism but what started this is his lack of understanding that Americans can be patriotic. There are millions of Americans who don't agree with Bush, don't like the war in Iraq, don't like Kerry, Cheney, Rumsfeld or whomever but one thing they do like is their flag and what it stands for.

[loki on 29.09.04 at 21:00]

Canuck,

With all due respect, I suggest that you go back to the beginning of this thread, read VERY CAREFULLY what Phil and others have said and then come back and comment, because, quite frankly, it's bloody obvious that you've completely misconstrued what Phil's saying. Like I say, I don't agree with his point of view (you'll note, when and if you go back to reread the thread, that I was the one who pointed out to Graeme that being proud of one's country was not the same as being proud of one's government), but I hear where he's coming from. God, this site does tend to provoke knee-jerk reactions, doesn't it? Now, excuse me while I go off in a huff.

[ace on 29.09.04 at 21:17]

Lighten up Canuck.

The fact of the matter is that we could do with a whole lot less nationalism in this world, thank you very much.

Patroitism is a good thing in certain circumstances. But look where it gets many countries in the world.

Isreal. They are being compared to Nazi Germnay these days.

Palestine. Ooops, not quite a nation, but certainly "fighting" for it.

Pakistan. A military dictatorship and our "ally" against terrorism. Sound familiar?

Iraq. Well, let's not go there.

North Korea. Starving, but full of national pride.

Serbia. Ask a resident of Sarajevo how things have been going in the last decade.

Any number of African nations.

The list goes on and on.

Bermuda is certainly facing a Nationalism crisis of its own. The so called "pride" you speak of is the driving force behind the whole idea of Independance. Great, we can wave a new National Flag at our football games and dream that we, like the Jamaicans, could make the World Cup finals one day. Other than that I see no benefit. I'm FIRMLY against it. Does that make me a Monarcist? Nope, it makes me a realist.

I'm not anti-American. I personally don't feel the desire to rip flags out of people's hands and defile them.

I just view this whole idea of national pride and patriotism in a very different way than the Americans. Limey too I imagine.

[J Galt on 29.09.04 at 21:56]

Limey,

you got it wrong, its not the flying of flags that give american's their national pride, its the fact that every school day from 5 years of age to the time they are 18 they Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

13 years of pledges

I'm not American and I know the pledge, I bet many of you out there new it too. Thats some pretty potent indoctrination.

Tiger/Ace
What Sea monster/devil are you talking about? You don't mean the lion do you?

[Just Another Evildoer on 29.09.04 at 22:12]

You know, all of these personal attacks on Phill, actually prove his point. He says that he "find(s) it difficult to distinguish American patriotism with the kind of arrogance that led to the Iraq war." The way some of you are reacting, you'd think he was advocating paedophilia!

I back his comment 1000%! The world trade center terrorism was a terrible thing, but it did not in any way justify pre-emptive war. This is a doctrine that is only reserved for bullies or psychopaths, and you know for damn sure that this wouldn't have happened with any of the other "axis of evil" countries.

I mean who the fuck is America to be deciding who is evil or not? Oh I forgot, George Bush believes that God wanted him to be President, that he's on a crusade and that people hate America because they hate "our freedom". You know, never mind America's military support of Israel, support of genocidal regimes in Indonesia, setting up revolutions in Chile, bribing/threatening poor countries to support the UN vote against Iraq, exploiting 3rd world labour, etc. And let's just ignore the fact that this is a country that went to war without a SINGLE SHRED of conclusive evidence that Iraq had WMDs and that UNMOVIC was unable to find nothing at all. I suppose we should all blame it on Ahmed Chalabi, right? This colossal fuck up wasn't America's fault, right?

"I'm also suspicious of the obsessive reverence with which some Americans handle the flag."

Notice that Phil said SOME AMERICANS. That means that his comment didn't apply to ALL Americans. You do understand the difference between SOME and ALL don't you? It's not half as blurry as the difference between a yellow and orange alert, afterall!

American patriotism, stoked up by George Bush still has something like 40% of Americans thinking that Iraq was involved with 9/11! A huge portion of Americans think that Saddam had connections with Al Qaeda! And far too many actually think that Iraq is the front line on terrorism. Hell, if you look at today's polls, the majority of Americans are supporting the dumbest President in US history, because he's the kind of guy who tells "evildoers" to "bring it on".

How can this be? It's because your average American thinks that their life is of much greater value than anyone else's. 3,000 American's is a world tragedy... OKAY bitches we're coming to YOUR town to fuck you up! 10,000 Iraqis, 20,000 Iraqis, 30,000 Iraqis and counting. But hey, what is the bodycount you always hear about on US media? "And today the death toll in Iraq has reached 1,000."

Ummm... what about the Iraqi body count? Typical response - What are you asking about that for - we're giving them freedom. Are you unpatriotic? Oh you're not American - didn't you learn what we think of you during the UN vote? Stupid forenah.

Osama Bin Laden is probably laughing his ass off right now. He may be hiding in a rock, but he's still the one that the world fears for good reason. No one gave a fuck about Saddam until Bush got a hard on for him. The vast majority of 9/11 hijackers were SAUDI ARABIAN, and the US president is praising that country for it's participation in the war on terrorism! Give me a fucking break! You need look no further to find a country that finances terrorist. And you only need one word to solve the mystery - oil.

And some of you want the rest of the world to skip over this "minor detail"? You want to deny that SOME Americans aren't arrogant and obsessive when it comes to Patriotism? Yeah, well tell me how you can vote for the President who refused to testify to the 9/11 commission, then would only do so if A) it was behind closed doors, B) No recording devices were used, and C) only if Dick Cheney could be present. You call that a demonstration of courage? No, that is a demonstration of ARROGANCE, and the amount of support that moron gets proves it.

And while some of you are probably foaming at the mouth, let me remind you again, I said SOME AMERICANS - particularly Bush supporters.

[Graeme Outerbridge on 29.09.04 at 22:55]

I'm not sure of the exact quote..but I think it goes like this, Patiotism is the last hiding place for scoundrels. The sooner people pledge allegiance to think for themselves instead of allowing Nationalism to cloud their judgement the better off the world will be! I love America but I'm not blind to its problems both at home and abroad. The same can be said of many countries in the world including little Bermuda. I do not like how Nationalism is used to harm others and America has fallen into the trap of using Patrotism for cynical political ends. Vietnam Iran Contra doing nothing about Ruanda and now Iraq. It seems to me that alot of Young Americans have died for nothing and there seems to be no end to the killing in the near future.

[ace on 29.09.04 at 23:13]

JGault,

lol...I did a wee bit of research and you are right, it is supposed to be a lion.

It the most "sea monsterist looking" lion I've ever seen though and I will always think of it as such.

Thanks for shattering a childhood notion.

I mean, what's up with that? A lion? Nah...we have us a freaking sea monster!

;)

[TJL on 30.09.04 at 06:13]

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw

Now I'm not saying that patriotism is necessarily a bad thing; in fact, I hold great esteem for people who are patriotic for the right reasons. But GBS has a point - far too often people devote unthinking loyalty to a certain government, nation, flag, or stretch of land simply because of where they were born. Like so many other things invented by man, patriotism can bring out both the best and the worst in people, depending on the circumstances.

Perhaps in some abstract way we can and do owe loyalty to a country; and the Imagine 2009 project sums up brilliantly the type of loyalty spoken about by JFK (as this type of initiative, undertaken properly, requires us to think not of what Bermuda can do for us, but of what we can do for Bermuda). But we should always be mindful that a country is nothing without the people of which it comprises; we owe no debt to pieces of cloth, national anthems or government offices, but instead owe it all to our fellow citizens. To all of the posters who assert that by burning a misused flag to protest a great civil injustice against my fellow man I am somehow a traitor, shame on you.

[YYZ on 30.09.04 at 08:52]

I've always wondered why Bermudians seem to have such a blind love for all things American. Maybe it's the influence of American TV on a society.

It's ironic that Americans, and thier supporters, are the first to jump on anyone who expresses their opinion of the US and it's people. It's called freedom of expression...consider it sometime.

Re Flags. A few years ago, upstanding American citizen, Rev. Fred Phelps and his crew burnt the Canadian flag in front of the parliament buildings in Ottawa. They were protesting allowance of same sex marriage in Canada.....(a sign of a truely free and progressive society). No one was arrested for this, can the same be said if this had happened in the US?

[Tiger Boy on 30.09.04 at 09:56]

Sissy looking sea lion. Tiger would be better.

[loki on 30.09.04 at 10:25]

I thought it was a womble. Oh, well, my theory that they migrated from Bermuda to Wimbledon Common has just gone out the window. Damn.

[Graeme Outerbridge on 30.09.04 at 12:00]

Hey Guys it is not just a lion holding that crest...it is infact a rampant lion.....Its infact red and holding up the sea venture crest rather than steering the ship into the Rocks....Being partial to Tigers I would prefer a tiger as long as it isnt Tony or that pawing tiger at the Disney theme park....see ya later Baaa! ^..^

[Tiger Boy on 30.09.04 at 12:47]

The Bermuda Coat of Arms is based on the latter of two coats of arms of the Bermuda Company, the group of investors with a charter granted by King James I, to colonize Bermuda in 1615. It is fixed by Royal Warrant, 4th October, 1910. “Argent on a mount vert a lion sejant affronte gules supporting between the forepaws an antique shield azure thereon a representation of the wreck of the ship Sea Venture (1609), together with this motto: ‘Quo Fata Ferunt’.”

The seal was incorporated into the Bermuda flag in 1910.

"Quo fata ferunt" is from book iii of Virgil's Aeneid and is usually translated as "Whither the Fates carry [us]".

Following is the Dryden translation with the pertinent phrase >marked<.

"When Heav'n had overturn'd the Trojan state
And Priam's throne, by too severe a fate;
When ruin'd Troy became the Grecians' prey,
And Ilium's lofty tow'rs in ashes lay;
>Warn'd by celestial omens, we retreat,
To seek in foreign lands< a happier seat.
Near old Antandros, and at Ida's foot,
The timber of the sacred groves we cut,
And build our fleet; uncertain yet to find
What place the gods for our repose assign'd.
Friends daily flock; and scarce the kindly spring
Began to clothe the ground, and birds to sing,
When old Anchises summon'd all to sea:
The crew my father and the Fates obey.
With sighs and tears I leave my native shore,
And empty fields, where Ilium stood before.
My sire, my son, our less and greater gods,
All sail at once, and cleave the briny floods."

The sea monster would still be cooler. Out of the Bermuda Triangle, you see.

[ace on 30.09.04 at 13:06]

"sejant affronte gules"

aka "Looks like a damn sea monster".

[Eastbourne Lad on 30.09.04 at 13:15]

I've just read some these comments and have to say that being English and an anti - monarch, I don't believe in Avid Patriotism but don't give a shit really.

However where do you Americans, get the idea that us brits have bad dental hygiene!!!

Has this come from Hollywood portrayals of Brits!!

[Tiger Boy on 30.09.04 at 13:21]

Same place you lot picked up the "cowboy" schtick!

[ace on 30.09.04 at 18:04]

('''\(o.O)/''')

I've decided to use this after every post, like Graeme has his little kitty ears.

It is a SEA MONSTER.

Grrroowwwlllll

He is cute and fund.

[The Lorax on 30.09.04 at 20:18]

I don't mind Americans loving their flag, but they overdo it so that it is flying from every house, and from every pole on every street. You walk down Madison Avenue and you can see 100s of stars and stripes.... - it's a bit sick really.... it seems that many Americans attach a oeculiar amount of emotion to this symbol and people from other countries simply don't understant that.

I think many foreigners find this flag obsession a little "in yer face".

No other country in the world is this obsessed with their flag. I don't have a big problem with it but do feel annoyed when I see it being flown here there and everywhere and "global domination" alarm bells start going off in my head.

Agree with Phil, a little more BDA flag flying is in order but when we DO eventually go independant - there had better be a skink on the new flag otherwise I am going to MAKE SOME NOISE! :-)

L.

[Graeme Outerbridge on 30.09.04 at 22:00]

Heah Tiger thanks for all your well researched History on the Bermuda Crest...Far as a flag goes for Bermuda I'm ready to design our new flag using one of my roof abstracts hmmm yep we can have a skink hanging out on the roof too! No sea monsters though sorry...^..^

[flag burning on 14.12.04 at 06:57]

I don't know about you all, but the only reason I would ever burn a flag would be in protest of a law that made flag burning illegal.