Full Puffer Jacket

I don’t understand how anyone could be upset by the rough treatment meted out to the late arrivals at the start of the annual Bermuda Regiment recruit camp on Sunday.

So two latecomers, both of whom had also disobeyed an order, fell to the ground after being shoved by a Regimental Policeman (RP). Did they scrape their knee? Sprain their ankle perhaps? How unfortunate. It’s hardly Full Metal Jacket, is it?

I see little benefit to Bermuda in maintaining the Regiment. Quelling rioters is a service last required in the 1970s and could surely be handled by the police. And while the Regiment undoubtedly helped the Island get back on its feet after hurricane Fabian, I don’t believe it justifies subjecting unwilling conscripts to three years of morning swims off South Shore and tents full of tear gas.

That said, you have to be pretty stupid not to expect insubordination to be met with a bit a rough treatment, despite Commanding Officer Lt. Col. Eddie Lamb’s somewhat ironic assertion that violence is completely against what the Regiment stands for.

Comments

[Tiger Bay on 12.01.05 at 08:51]

I was in the Regiment and resented it, but think it is a worthy institution for Bermuda in terms of instilling discipline and breaking down socioeconomic boundaries. I hate to see it being roped into "glamour" tasks for which it is unsuited, like driving the premierish around. It is well suited for community support and should be involved even more in this type of work.

[The Limey on 12.01.05 at 09:23]

The ability of the Regiment to instill discipline in its recruits is an argument I commonly hear made in its favour. But I have two problems with this:

1. How many of those recruits actually need discipline instilling in them? I know two of the recruits at this year's camp and neither of them do.

2. Parents need to be the ones instilling discipline in their kids, not the Regiment. If they don't have it by the time they join the Regiment I question whether two weeks of boot camp a year plus one night a week and one weekend a month will make any difference. It's too little, too late.

Mind you, that's just my opinion, and as someone who hasn't gone through boot camp, perhaps it's not worth much (and no, I have no intention of volunteering). Has anyone ever done a study on the effects of the Regiment on its recruits? Is there any proof that it's turned wallsitting wastrels into productive members of society?

I accept the Regiment may have a role to play in breaking down socioeconomic boundaries, but a better education system would do that too.

[Paul on 12.01.05 at 10:26]

Yes it isn't the Parris Island Marine Recruit Depot for sure. I thought a military unit had to be prepared to fight otherwise what is the real purpose of it? :)

[jake on 12.01.05 at 10:40]

The Bermuda Regiment is a unique institution.

Many from a philosophical standpoint object to its mandatory nature. Others, lampoon its military prowess as soldiers on the beach. Overwhelmingly those who have served think it was on the whole a good experience even though at many times it felt like they were wasting their time.

I think its value lies somewhere else. It is a forced social mixer that brings together all manner of Bermudian life for shared experiences. many people will live and work in Bermuda for years and have no concept of their fellow Bermudians. The Regiment breaks that barrier down.

For many of Bermuda's men (these are not "kids". Viewing an 18 year old this way is part of our national problem) this is their last chance. For many of them Mom was the head of the household, their teacher was Mrs. Smith at school and at Church most of the people in charge (attendance?) were women. For many of them this is their first exposure to male leadership - where you have to listen.

How does this "have to listen" thing differ from sports activity? Simple. You have greater powers to deal with those that don't listen, or choose to sit on the walls of life. You force young men to recognize that there are other men in the world equally entitled to respect, and that we share this world together - or we destroy each other in it. Too many of the cases I see in the courts are young men who have never learned the fundamental lesson that whilst they are strong and powerful, they are not the only one. In many senses we have a class of men who in cowardly fashion will gang up on and beat others when they catch them alone - the ultimate expression of weakness and insecurity.

The Regiment contains some of the finest men I have ever met, starting with Lt. Col. Eddie Lamb ED. At every level of our society a lifetime in the Regiment (at virtually every rank commissioned and non-commissioned) he has the ability to relate to the guy on the wall and heads of countries. He leads Officers, Warrant Officers, Senior NCO's and men of the Regiment in an honourable way. He is perhaps one of the toughest personalities you will ever meet in your regimental life, but fair. He best represents what the Bermuda Regiment has to offer.

I will happily organize a trip to the Recruit Camp for you if you like Phil - as an observer. The Regiment's precursors (the Bermuda Militia Artillery and the Bermuda Volunteer Rifle Corps) both served with distinction in the First and Second World Wars. I hope I can help you to learn a bit more about the soul of our country - kept in the Regiment.

As for the complaints about violence - the Regiment metes out the proper motivation (see movie referenced above) for those who do not have it. We are talking about the discipline needed to give 18 year olds weapons with ammo and have the confidence that they will NOT shoot. Until you have seen the evolution Phil it will be hard for you to understand it at all.

[ace on 12.01.05 at 11:00]

I agree wholeheartedly with Jake, particularly with respect to his comments about Lt.Col. Lamb.

He was my drill instructor when I did my Boot Camp. He just epitomised toughness, fairness and had an incredible ability to get the best out of a rag tag group of guys from all walks of life.

The hardest part about being drilled by him for hours on end was trying to stiffle the giggles when he started yelling at some poor out-of-step soldier. Some of the stuff he said, while unprintable here, was just hilarious but if he caught you laughing you were likely to catch a "whack" with his yardstick.

A good man. Bermuda is lucky to have him.

[Tiger Bay on 12.01.05 at 11:16]

Phil, why don't you volunteer? Give you a chance to see the rest of the island and get out of St George's for a while!

[Point on 12.01.05 at 11:31]

I agree whole heartedly with both jake and ace. Having concluded my mandatory service many years ago I look back on those three years with pride, motivation and humour. I know of no other experience in Bermuda where every participant is on an equal footing – be they black, white, rich, poor, young (or somewhat older), college educated or high school drop out. From the east end, west end and all points in between, one of the first things the regiment teaches you is that you are all the same and part of a team and that team is one colour – green.

While some of the training may seem out of place here on an island where the likelihood of our military being “called to arms” is extremely remote, the regiment does an excellent job of teaching the value of teamwork, instilling a strong sense of social responsibility and pride. I agree that more training time can and should be dedicated to more practical endeavours (i.e. emergency response and national disaster scenarios) as displayed post-Fabian when the regiment did an excellent job of working to bring our physical infrastructure back up to speed.

I suspect if you talk to the majority of regiment alumni(ae) they would, on balance, be very satisfied and proud to have been part of such an important and worthwhile organisation.

[jake on 12.01.05 at 12:35]

If you had Colonel Lamb as a Drill Instructor you are dating yourself. That was many moons ago, and much water has passed under the bridge since then. I am impressed. You probably used the old mini ruger rifles as well. Here's a little something special to take you back:

Top ten things that tell you you have been in the Bermuda Regiment:

10. You know how to "bull" a boot. And it is a good thing.

9. You understand that a perfectly good, plastic coated, falsely shined cap badge is not good enough. It requires fire, alcohol, brasso and a good half hour a day.

8. The words, "Eat now and taste later" actually motivate you to enjoy your meal.

7. You know someone called Nightmare, Gunsmoke, and Disco.

6. Move to the right in threes, RIIIGHTT TURN! brings back memories.

5. The remainder of your body is erect AAAANND Square to the Front! Brings back more.

4. You swam in the healing waters of South Shore.

3. Kilamanjaro is a place on South Shore you know of...and hate.

2. The RSM is a known entity as well. And you are afraid. Very afraid.

1. And the Number 1 thing to take you back to the old Drill Square is...

Stand still the rear rank of Ten Platoon.

Hey you. Yes you, you @#$@#@#$@#$%$%@#$#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$! You had better sort your @##$#%#@$#$@'ing life out on this drill square before I take my pace stick and make you a soldiersicle!!!

Ten Platoon-shun.

[The Limey on 12.01.05 at 13:03]

Jake - I'm planning to go along to see the end of recruit camp at 2pm on Saturday 22nd January. But if you're happy to organise a more in-depth tour, I'll gladly take you up on it.

I draw the line at participating, though. Too many unpleasant memories of freezing afternoons spent being shouted at on muddy rugby fields at school, I'm afraid. And if I want to see the rest of the Island, TB, I'll just go for a drive.

[ace on 12.01.05 at 13:36]

hehe...yup, that sure does bring back memories.

I'd forgotten about Kilamanjaro....that damn hill almost killed me on a number of occassions.

:)

[ace on 12.01.05 at 13:43]

By the way...yes, we used the Mini-Ruger. Great little weapon (notice I did not say "gun"). I shot with the Jr. NCOs in a falling plate competition when I did recruit camp as a Lance Corporal Section Commander one year after doing boot camp and the cadre. The Canadians knocked us out in the semi-final...but they were using FN1s (or 2s, can't remember)which fired 7.62mm rounds. If they hit in front of the target the plate would go down from the sheer force of the bullet.

We beat the Senior NCOs and the Marines (who complained bitterly that they did not have time to zero their weapons properly, despite being at the range banging away on full auto the entire day before) with those Rugers.

What do they use now up there? PLEASE don't tell me M16s.

;)

[jake on 12.01.05 at 15:00]

Still Rugers. There are also SA80's for training soldiers destined to go on training expeditions with the Royal Anglian Regiment.

The Ruger is an effective weapon when cleaned, zeroed and the gas ports are clear. With a sight it is even more effective.

I will make a few calls and see if we can arrange a tour of camp. I suggest you go up in the morning and see PT, and then wait for morning muster. The morning inspections by the officers are priceless.

Major Telemaque is a rally worth hearing. The words "as sure as God made green apples..." are likely to come from his mouth, as well as another oldy but goody, "You have a long way to go - and a short time (pause) to get there."

[Adjustah! on 12.01.05 at 16:23]

I agree with Jake. The Regiment is one of Bermuda's best and, sadly enough most under appreciated institutions. Those that make fun or slight it as outdated have never been in it - and are usually still eligible for the draft!

It is perhaps one of the last bastions of true social integration on the island and where else will you learn to tolerate all walks of life in Bermuda. From Tuckers Town to Back of Ta'wn, you are all equally worthless for two weeks - a great social common denominator. Given the pressure, and fact that you're all in the same boat, this can also lead to some strange and strong friendships where none would have occurred before (my wife is horrified by some of the people who shake my hand in the street!). It also promotes an understanding, appreciation and tolerance of others and other cultural backgrounds - something we can all use in Bermuda's highly polarized society.

There is also the fact that you can learn skills and trades in the Regiment. Basic man-management under extreme pressure, leadership skills just to name a two, not to mention courses overseas in Brecon, Sandhurst, Coronado, Canada as well as trips to Jamaica, Quebec, Grenada, the U.K., the U.S. and attachments and deployments all over the world.

To get to the issue, there is also the fact that often this is the first time that many of these guys have had ANY form of male authority in their lives. Often the ony other interaction with male authority figures that these guys have usually been with the Police - and at the wrong end of that! Even when that is not the case there are other role models up at camp who have traits that everyone can learn from. (Don't get me wrong there are also some real sh!tbags who should have left long ago.) Indeed I know several who would be most likely be serving a prison sentence right now had they not been drafted - one of them is still up there.

As for the physical violence, well sorry, go back to the 90's. Political correctness lost. It's over. If you mouth off to an RP (Dumb ass!), odds are you will get a cut tail - something your parent(s) should have done to your spoiled cell phone carrying, $200 sneaker wearing, $3000 bike-riding, my own tv and dvd player waching non-working ass in the first place. Life sucks, buy a helmet. Would you do that to a "real" policeman? If you answer yes, then odds are, you need a kick in the pants anyway as part of the problem. Boo flippin' hoo.

Ironically enough, I agree that the Regiments role needs to change. I am a firm believer in a Coast Guard - full time. Maybe the "Indepen-Dance" might lead to "His Royal Gombey's Bermuda National Navy", I don't know, but there is definitley a need for one. No matter how you slice it, Bermuda has always had a militia and home defense since the first colonization of the islands. I would argue that it's role needs to change, but there will always be a need for it here in Bermuda.

[Tiger Bay on 12.01.05 at 18:52]

Oh gawd, kilamanjaro. I had forgotten that until now ...

:)

[J Galt on 12.01.05 at 19:41]

You have all made some very good points about the regiment. I to can remember, when I, like a majority of the other recruits had been FORCED to attend.

And While I can agree that some people may benefit from the decipline, father figures, meeting people from other walks of life etc ... I can not use those reasons to justify the draft. One man or a group of men forcing his/their will on another is wrong.

So until they remove the draft the regiment is no different from a rapist or slaveowner. Remember as you drive down Southshore over the next two weeks when you see those guys marching, running or whatever other tricks they have them perfoming, mostly all of them will be there not by choice, but by force.

[jake on 12.01.05 at 20:45]

No.

We will not have your time in the Regiment compared to slavery.

We will not have it compared to rape.

Make your standard point on your rights, and how your rights are more important than everyone else and we will all get annoyed and say how there must be balance, but don't talk about things you know nothing of.

No.

[Pitts Bay on 12.01.05 at 21:20]

I too remember my time in the Regiment. I also remember beating the US Marines in the falling plate, but losing the Canadians. That was very satisfying! I did my two years aged 19 and 20 and had to complete my third year when I returned to the Island when I was 31. Of course, I tried the appeal process, but that did not work. While I may have thought it was a waste of time and effort when I was there, in hind sight it was character building for me and many of the other people there. I got to meet people and become friends with people I would never have had a chance to meet otherwise. The Bermuda Regiment - and in particular Col Lamb are a credit to Bermuda. Galt has it wrong, again!!

While the direction may need to be amended to meet with current circumstances, the principle is still sound.

[shipstones on 12.01.05 at 22:45]

Galt goes through lights on red everytime, doesn't wash his hands when he pees, parks without paying, drops litter wherever he wants, wears his hat to dinner, scratches his balls in public.

In fact anything he has been told not to do by his Momma who beat him every time he didn't flush the toilet.

[ace on 12.01.05 at 23:34]

Clearly the Marines are terrible shots. lol

[J Galt on 13.01.05 at 00:28]

Jake,

What do slaves, rape victims, and the draftees have in common? They all are victims because they have a person/persons forcing thier will on them.

Pick that cotton, spread those legs, give me two full weeks a year, one night a week and one weekend a month for three years and 3 months of your life. Different degrees I will admit but the same idea behind three different acts.

You tell me two are wrong and the other is right? Why is the regiment right because it builds character? I bet some of those slaves where real characters. Oh well thanks to the regiment I got to meet some real people who I would have never met. The rape victim can make the same claim "I got to meet a doctor and a nurse, the policeman who took my statement, gosh this rape things not that bad and I think I'm developing a better character for it as well" And don't even get me started on Kunta, imagine if he never would have met Bell.

Also I never said my rights are more important than anyone elses, I believe that all men's rights should be equal. I don't believe I have a right to your life, just as I believe you don't have a right to mine.

In short the regiment is wrong because most of people up there through no fault of their own haven't got a choice. Life? Not their own. liberty? Thats the statue with the torch, right?. Security of the person and the protection of the law? The same law that requires them to give up the life and liberty given to them not one sentence ago.

Simplistic? maybe, show me how I'm wrong.

[Milo on 13.01.05 at 08:23]

Galt,
So what about school. Should school also be voluntary, for those who wish their children to succeed? And can the parents force the children to go if they don't want to? Help me undrestand your Walden II, please Mr Galt. Or should I just buy a copy of "Atlas Shrugged" and stop getting it second hand through you?

[J Galt on 13.01.05 at 10:00]

Milo,

It may seem like a catch 22 situation, But if you think about it rationally, your real question is do children have the same rights as adults. The short answer is no. We have to remember that we are not talking about children who are dependant on their parents for survial, we are talking about independant adults, being treated like children.

[zupa on 13.01.05 at 10:23]

The regiment is a joke...alwyas has been.

If this [lamb character] ever attacked me with a yardstick, he's find half of it lodged up his ass, and the other half stuck up his urethra...and me in jail for not acting like a slave.

[jake on 13.01.05 at 10:38]

Galt,

It is sad that the difference in degrees of force are not understood by you. It is central to your argument that your freedom is absolute. Any infringment on it must, by definition, be wrong.

What most level headed thinkers accept is that there are levels of freedom. They understand that there is a gray area where your freedom impinges on mine.

There are valid arguments against conscription, and I am happy to have that debate with you. Slavery and rape do not fall into this category though. If you cannot see how they are distinctly different, serving no good purpose, with no redeeming characteristic whatsoever, then there is no purpose for our debate.

You see I will not debate slavery any more, nor will I do so with rape.

Let's debtate conscription, the topic at hand.

[Denning on 13.01.05 at 11:14]

Sounds like Zupa could use some character building himself. Limey, his comments are offensive. Personal attacks on Mr. Lamb (or anyone else) are not helpful to the discussion. Go elsewhere, Zupa. You are not welcome here.

[boogie on 13.01.05 at 15:13]

Slow down folks, in a contemporary democracy, conscription is wrong. Taking men and women who are volunteers has been shown to be the most effective fighting force. (the US experience in Iraq 1&2, UK in N. Ireland, Australia in Vietnam, Iraq)

For those who say the Regiment's role is not to fight but to meld disparate groups of young men together, the stats just don't add up. Again, this is a democracy and what is good for the gander is good for the goose. Every young person born in Bermuda ought to be subject to that draft.

As a matter of fact I seem to remember the Royal Gazette publishing a story in 99 or 2000 that only one of the 40 members of the House of Assembly had served in the Regiment or its precursors. If it's so great, why didn't they serve?

So we begin by excluding 50% of Bermudians, then exclude those who have bad records. Then with the medical deferments and those who are deferred to attend university, we are very likely only drafting 1 in 10 of young people born in any one year. Is that fair?

As for its military prowess, well, can the Bermuda Regiment be picked up, lock stock and barrell and dropped into the Royal Anglians? No it cannot, the British have said so. So what is the point? Even during WW2 the British only took our better soldiers. On September 11, 2001, Regiment soldiers were sent out without ammunition. Why?

With the PLP using the Regiment more as a way of preparing it for a role in Independence AND to take a swipe at the Police - which they still seem to see as an 'occupying force' - the Regiment is getting a lot of work.

And lastly, those Marines you were beating were guards living a cushy life in Bermuda - not regular infantrymen. I bet few of them were Vietnam veterans and you wouldn't have had a chance in hell on one of your trips to Camp Lejune.

And everyone knows the mini-Ruger and the SA 80 are the absolute worst weapons in the world.

[Tiger Bay on 13.01.05 at 16:05]

If you serve in the Regiment, you see how many of Bermuda's male kids are dysfunctional. I've seen the Regiment help some of these kids get a grip on their lives - I benefitted from it as well! I am certain that it has a role to play here.

It may offend your liberal or libertarian sensibilities - but the Bermuda Regiment is one of the few organisations in Bermuda that helps integration, empowerment, and self-discipline. Subjects that are often the subject of desire here.

BTW, You can buy a Mini Ruger at Kmart. It's a squirrel gun for teenagers.

[ace on 13.01.05 at 16:08]

Walmart maybe...but not Kmart...and they are still better than the M16.

:)

[Fornicator on 13.01.05 at 16:08]

"Has anyone ever done a study on the effects of the Regiment on its recruits? Is there any proof that it's turned wallsitting wastrels into productive members of society?"

That's a good question, and an even better one when you ask how much does it cost us to run the Regiment. Most of the Regiment stars I know where top class children to begin with. Most of the guys I know who were trouble before the Regiment, were trouble after the Regiment. So I certainly do question if learning how to march in step and shoot a stationary target actually does turn around lives in the real world. What's the price of this rehabilitation program? What's the real effectiveness of this social equaliser?

Maybe it's time that the country actually places real expectations on what it gets out of the Regiment. I would bet that when there is a defined mandate and real goals, that the relevance of the Regiment skyrockets. And when that happens the draft or at least the resistance to joining might be unnecessary. You might find people wanting to join because they see it as something other than a pain in the ass institution that no one wants to be forced into. Maybe there'd be a sense of real pride for having done your tour of island duty.

[replicator on 13.01.05 at 22:43]

Phil and Fornicator have a point about doing a study. The majority of people who I've spoken to who have served or high up in the regiment all vow that it improves the lives of a lot of people on the wrong path. But does it really?

Lambe was on the tube tonight saying that he'd estimate that 50% of recruits bring some serious social issues with them.

A study would be worthwhile, the question is who would fund it and who would run it? The College?

[J Galt on 14.01.05 at 00:35]

"Let's debate conscription, the topic at hand."

Ok Jake I'll take you up on that offer. What do you think of conscription?

[jake on 14.01.05 at 09:55]

I think it serves a valid purpose where there is a societal need for a standing body, and where because of numbers, there are less than necessary percentages likely to be attracted to serve in that necessary role.

Our country of 70,000 has been served well by this institution as we ask our young men to suffer runs, standing in the rain, and a little discipline, so as to ready them to be an effective tool for disaster/relief activity, support to the police, and ceremonial duties.

It is a small price to pay for the utopia we live in.

As for those who do not serve, I am content that a system of forced inclusion must have safeguards. Contientious objectors and their right not to serve offer that safeguard, as do the exemptions for schooling and for medical purposes. The Regiment will even defer service for those who have a significant life event.

You see Galt, once we are not in your absolute world, most people will agree that whilst providing some discomfort, it also grants our community a service with spin off benefits like social blending.

My two cents. Let's have yours.

[Fornicator on 14.01.05 at 10:42]

"Our country of 70,000 has been served well by this institution as we ask our young men to suffer runs, standing in the rain, and a little discipline, so as to ready them to be an effective tool for disaster/relief activity, support to the police, and ceremonial duties.

It is a small price to pay for the utopia we live in."

The regiment certainly came in handy during the last Hurricane, but I wouldn't judge it as effective until I knew what the costs were. We could just as easily have a trained Hurricane Reserve or Storm Corp, and it might even be a volunteer group (I might even join something like that).

Beyond storms I don't place much value on ceremonial duties or riot control if the cost is very high. I'd rather see that cash used to develop an institution which earns respect from having real goals and accountability. Putting aside the anecdotal benefits of the Regiment as is, what should the mandate be? Does the combat focus make sense? Is learning to shoot and hike through the mountains of Jamaica a worthwhile skill for a Bermuda volunteer group? I doubt it.

Perhaps it should be focused more on storm clean-up, public works, marine patrol, rest home maintenance, public school maintenance/development, basic skills development, CPR and other lifesaving skills? Should it just be a draft, or should everyone (male and female) be required to do some kind of national service?

Anybody got the 2004 budget handy? How small is the price we're paying for the Regiment?

PS: Utopia? If you are on top, yes, you might call it a Utopia. But not if you are making less than $50k and looking at an $875k and rising average price of a single dwelling.

[jake on 14.01.05 at 11:54]

Perhaps you would like a transfer to our other facilities in parts of the world where $50K would never happen. Put it in perspective. Bermuda is a beautiful place to live, but you do have to work, and it is not without its problems.

Perhaps you can suggest a better place that is problem free?

As for your storm corps, I doubt you would join. As evidence of this, do you see the St. John's ambulance oversubscribed? No.

For emergencies a trained body with an organized structure is essential. THe military training is a background for that training and organization. Jamaica is a highlight for 90% who go. It is always oversubscribed for the soldiers and they rarely have to hunt people down to go. For many it is their first trip overseas and first exposure to true poverty.

Perhaps they can make space for you on the next trip so you can appreciate your own island a bit more.

[J Galt on 14.01.05 at 13:50]

Jake,

You state there is a societal need for the regiment and suggest that need alone is enough to justify the draft. People need homes and people need food, does that need justify or enable them to take a home by force or steal food. Of course not you have to earn your food and shelter. If you take by force society will punish you. If socitey needs a regiment then it shouldn't steal one it should pay the price.

"Our country of 70,000 has been served well by this institution as we ask our young men to suffer runs, standing in the rain, and a little discipline...."

Nice thought but not the truth, we do not ask our young men, we TELL them, we force them into service.

If wrong for and individual to steal, then its should be wrong for a group of individuals. If it is wrong for an individual to force his will on another man, then it is just as wrong for a group to.

Your support of the draft is your support for robbery and enslavement of your fellow man.

[jake on 14.01.05 at 13:58]

Slavery again? Read post above. Your debating ability is pretty poor. Make fallacious analogy and then, once faulty premise is established make equally faulty conclusion.

We do not sell or buy soldiers. Soldiers have rights. Soldiers or draftees can conscientiously object. Soldiers are not property. Soldiers are paid. We do not sexually abuse soldiers. We do not force them to have sex and then sell their children. Soldiers are not stuck in a closed class. They can work and train and be promoted and one day can lead.

Now, abandon the weak slave logic and debate. The issue is remains conscription.

[ace on 14.01.05 at 15:01]

I found it quite "telling" that the soldier involved in the incident that occurred where the conscript was shoved to the ground and which sparked outrage from some members of the community, and some posters here, was quoted in the Mid Ocean today as saying that HE was the one who was completely at fault.

He went from cursing at the RP to eating humble pie, within a week.

I'm sure that some will say he was coerced into assuming responsibility, but I salute the young man for being MAN enough to accept responsibility.

The regiment appears to have done him a world of good.

[Fornicator on 14.01.05 at 16:39]

"Perhaps you would like a transfer to our other facilities in parts of the world where $50K would never happen. Put it in perspective. Bermuda is a beautiful place to live, but you do have to work, and it is not without its problems."

Putting it into perspective is exactly what I was doing. I'd say it's superb for the rich, quite nice for the middle class if you have one child, quite tough if you make less than $50k, and a nightmare if you live in some of the hellish pockets around the island. Ask someone living on Parson's Road if Bermuda is a Utopia. Better than other places does not make it a Utopia - literally or figuratively, and especially considering the fragility of our wealth.

There are a great many more places that are better to stay than Bermuda. That's why you see a growing number of people making as much money as they can now with the intention of living it up elsewhere... It's also why you see declining tourist numbers - Bermuda is not all that, Jake. Not by a longshot. Perspective is exactly what is needed.

"As for your storm corps, I doubt you would join. As evidence of this, do you see the St. John's ambulance oversubscribed? No."

You're going to use St. John's as the basis of that opinion? C'Mon. Despite it being around for years, the organisation hardly has a profile in the community. More to the point, neither the Regiment nor St. Johns are sold to the public as functions of national service. The former is sold as a compulsory pain in the ass, and the latter is sold as "the other ambulance people". Neither is seen as functions of national pride/duty, hence the low interest in servitude IMO.

"For emergencies a trained body with an organized structure is essential. THe military training is a background for that training and organization. Jamaica"

I totally agree that a trained body and organized structure is essential. But the question remains, trained for what purpose? ...that is relevant to Bermuda's needs. I don't think that combat training is a key need. Same thing goes for riots, hiking mountains, removing ticks from your groin, marching in step, etc. What is the relevance of the current Regiment program to Bermuda, and how much does it cost us? Can we be getting more out of the regiment if we altered its purpose? I bet we sure as hell could, but bets aren't enough. Someone should ask what's the current purpose, does it need modification, what kind of measurement/accountability, evaluation and so on. If the regiment is going to be taken as a valid institution, then it's validity should always be questioned.

[jake on 14.01.05 at 16:55]

Do you judge the success of the country by Parson's Road?

OK. Firstly, real estate on Parson's Road is doing quite well. By the school there are new developments, and people are actively doing what it takes to make it. Stop making whiners out of our countrymen.

Stop being one yourself.

As for the purpose of the training, what would you like them to study? Reinsurance?

It is designed to be arduous so as to make the struggle real. It is in the struggle that the teamwork happens and the social mixing takes place. It is in difficulty that they learn to work together.

Here's a thought. Have you ever led anyone or any group of people through adversity? Have you ever trained a group of Bermudian men drawn from all walks of life? Can you categorically say that without encouragment from you, those people would regard you as one of the defining roles in their lives? Prior to their transformational experience with you, (assuming any has taken place) were they related to you or strangers?

Basically, do you have any experience in leading anyone in challenging times? I ask because your questions suggest that you know little of why people do what they do in the Regiment.

[ruby tuesday on 14.01.05 at 17:01]

Galt

I find it interesting you refer in your posts to the the cliched shorthands of American constitutional liberties. I assume from this you have read the Federalist Papers (and De Tocqueville?) and in it you will note that the writers make many references rights of the individual and of the states. With these rights come obligations (which I grant are rights in themselves) but we accept them as part of our transition from the state of nature into a civil society. The rights of life liberty and the pursuits of happiness and property are not possible without these obligations. I suggest some reading this weekend.

Phil - I read you're email (I can't reply for some reason). The memoranda are private and obviously not in the public domain and I doubt even subject to thirty years. They were told to me by a former student of mine who is now a div1 Civil Servant at the FCO and I have no doubt as to their accuracy.

[shipstones on 14.01.05 at 18:15]

I think two or three guys getting pushed over shouldn't meaqn we disband the regiment or even consider doing so. There are much bigger issues to deal with!
The education system and the police should be the two main priorities!
Ruby, I assume you are referring to FCO opening up its records to the public in accordance with new laws. I believe all departments of British government have to publicise what is available and educate public on how to access this information I look forward to seeing what governpors office papers will be opened to the public.

[J Galt on 15.01.05 at 00:19]

Jake you don't get it do you.

Take the act of sex, when both parties agree its a lovely thing, when one uses force to get it, its rape.

When I agree to work in the shiprow for a set wage thats a job, if you force me I'm a slave.

The prevailing theme here is the use of force on an unwilling party. The draftee doesn't have a choice they are forced and there for it is wrong.

[shipstones on 15.01.05 at 00:33]

Under your definition the government is forcing people to serve the country in the regiment.
They force parents to educate their children.
They force you to submit to search by customs at the airport.
They force you to drive at 20 miles per hour.
They force you to pay taxes
They force you to close your restaurant
They force you to have a hygenic restaurant
They force you to stop at pedestrian crossings and let pedestrians accross
They force you to take a breathalyser
They force you to park in certain spaces and pay for it
All in the interest of the society at large. The good of the society trumps your rights every time!
You may argue as everyone else is as to whether the regiment is for the good of the people. A valid argument.
Yours Galt is childish. Your argument is what my two year old does when she doesn't want to go to bed!
As I said before you are still rebelling against authority and society. Grow up!
Same rule as for regiment as Jake points out.

[Fornicator on 15.01.05 at 10:07]

"Do you judge the success of the country by Parson's Road?

OK. Firstly, real estate on Parson's Road is doing quite well. By the school there are new developments, and people are actively doing what it takes to make it. Stop making whiners out of our countrymen.

Stop being one yourself."

This is too rich! Jake, you categorically described Bermuda has a utopia. I applied perspective by saying that utopia in Bermuda is a direct function of great wealth. Now if you want to move onto Parson's Road where people are getting chopped in the head and still call Bermuda a utopia, I'll be happy to sign you up at the nearest drug clinic. Take off your designer goggles and walk around in some of the neighborhoods that are slowly but surely falling apart, because every man is for himself. Have a chat with some of the young, college educated Bermudians who are freakin out over the cost of a house, pissed off that the can't buy a home in their own country. Talk to some Bermudians about how they are frightened about having a child in Bermuda, because private education appears to be the only sensible option for a solid future. That's $7k+ per semester, per child. Bermuda is an Island, Jake. That's I-S-L-A-N-D. Notice the presence of the "S" in the the word. Not an I-LAND, ME-LAND or GREED-LAND. This country would be a whole lot better if more of us stopped to consider how life is for the broader group instead of only looking out for numero uno. The facade is deceptive Jake - utopia it is not.

"As for the purpose of the training, what would you like them to study? Reinsurance?"

I already gave you several alternative purposes for a Regiment or Corp. I'm not going to quote them again.

"It is designed... ...I ask because your questions suggest that you know little of why people do what they do in the Regiment."

General Patton, if you think that serving in and leading the Bermuda Regiment automatically qualifies your opinion about the Regiment, then you deserve to lose your stripes. Drop the lame smokescreen and stick to the point. Try questioning how much better the Regiment can be. How much does the Regiment cost? Are we getting relevant value from it? Does it need a revised mandate? Should it be modernized? Should national service be required for all? These are all questions that need to be asked for any organisation.

Bermuda Defence Budget:
2002/2003: $4,371,000
2003/2004 revised estimate: $5,815,000
2004/2005 estimate: $5,458,000

That's $15 million in the last three years alone.

Our current defence budget is:

* 114% of Labour & Training
* 40% of the Bermuda College
* 99% of Health and Family Services
* 62% of child & family Services
* 300% of libraries
* 65% of youth and sport
* 337% of community affairs
* 327% of cultural affairs
* 246% of human affairs
* 547% of e-commerce
* 165% of environmental protection

Let's say we've spent $40,000,000 in the last ten years alone. Is the cost justified?

[J Galt on 16.01.05 at 13:07]

"The good of the society trumps your rights every time!"

Thats communism.

I own a cup, and you need it for drinking, I agree to rent it to you as long as you don't drink milk from it.
if you can agree to the price and the terms, we trade FREELY no use of force. If not you will have to find your cup else where.

The same with the speed limit, parking etc... The road isn't yours, if you wish to use it, then you pay the price and agree to the terms of use, there in no force used. If not, don't use the roads. See you have a choice, the draftee does not.

[OURS NOT TO REASON WHY on 16.01.05 at 14:45]

I have just been in boot camp for the past week and am on leave until 9:00 tonight. I have to say it isn't that bad, as long as you do what you are told and LISTEN to what they have to say it isn't a bad experience. I have enjoyed about 50% of the time there...the other half only being ruined because of the selfish and lazy people. I honestly felt that I was in kindergarden for some of the time (learning our left from right turns in drill) but I do agree that it is a great social mix and is a chance of meeting people I would have normally never come into contact with.
The major problem was the lack of people listening to their officers or blatantly talking ALL the time when we were receiving instructions, maybe this shows evidence of lack of discipline in school? I went in thinking the officers would be cruel and make things worse when it is in fact the recruits who make the experience worse.
I would have to say my favourite part is the lectures we have at night simply because we are given brief talks from the commanding officers with all the regimental propaganda thrown it. It seems like they are trying to convince themselves more than us of the importance of the regiment but that time definitely beats doing drills and polishing boots. I also found funny the added bits about fighting "terrorists".....
If I don't reply to someone's comments on my post its because I'm in the regiment doing the work that other soldiers get away with not doing or waiting in line to get food because of the those who love to push in line (after i just helped to clean their bunks)

[jake on 16.01.05 at 15:46]

You have learned quite a bit in a week. You have seen the good and bad of what BErmuda has to offer.

Next week I urge you to dig deeper with your fellow Private Soldiers and try to understand the why. Offer the same to them and give them a glimpse into why perhaps you are the way you are.

Then you will really get it.

Good luck in the final drill competition next Saturday. That will be the true test of your teamwork skills, and no matter the result - you will get huge amounts in exchange for your efforts.

Good quote from the Charge of the Light Brigade. When you can honestly make that kind of sacrifice - not for some idealology, but for each other - you are there. You are a soldier.

[shipstones on 16.01.05 at 18:55]

By your logic then conscription is OK.
You are not forced to live in this country!
If you do live here you have to meet the rules. See very childish!

[ruby tuesday on 17.01.05 at 09:33]

Galt

Communism (or Marxist-Lenninism) is many things but to reduce to it to some simplistic aphorism only serves to highlight your simplicity. In any case it's far closer to Fascism - the path to Communism involves the withering away of the state and all its enterprises.

[Tiger Bay on 17.01.05 at 09:55]

In theory, certainly not in reality!

[J Galt on 17.01.05 at 11:08]

Shipstones,

So your saying that I should be forced to leave because I disagree with an unjust law. If everyone thought your way, we would never had made the great advances in freedoms that we all benefit from today, and hopefully that evolution will continue with or with out your help.

People rejected your "The good of the society trumps your rights every time!" as Ruby points that fascism, (not communism/Communism) and we all see what Mussolini did for Italy and I'm sure Ruby can correct me if I wrong but Nazism is an off shoot of fascism.

It pains me to no end that you blindly believe and follow such evil, remember the old saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Trischia on 17.01.05 at 16:24]

A very interesting debate on the Regiment. Having been there yesterday to witness my son - one of the latest batch of recruits - perform whatever tricks he's been taught, and to attend the Service, I am appalled by the Regiment's lack of regimentation! It was scheduled (3 months' prior) to begin at 9 am (presumably, 'sharp'?) but the gate wasn't opened until 9.30. The Parade/Service started at 9.40 and went on till 10.30 though we were thanked for attending the 'half-hour' service ...? Is this an example of discipline and what's being instilled in the new recruits? How can one take pride in an organisation that has no pride in itself, has no standard of values other than brute force - from the act of conscription itself, to the RP pushing over a new recruit.
If the RP told him 'move along there' and the recruit told him to get lost, the RP should have called him to order in a disciplined-example-setting manner. To shove him over in full view of all other recruits (my son witnessed it), and the newspaper, then have the gall to request that the newspaper not publish it is proof that they were in the wrong, despite claims to the contrary. How this does make a 'better man' ? In addition to all this, the Kit they are given is old, worn out, frayed at the cuffs, dirty, and in general cheap and nothing to be proud of.
To J Galt - many of those to whom Rand's dialogue-through-Galt was directed did not understand it either - an equal reflection of real life, as much as the dialogue itself.

[ruby tuesday on 17.01.05 at 16:43]

Nazism and Fascism were coincident political movements that had far more contradictions than they had in common. They came together out of political expediency - the National Socialist movement had far more in common with the Imperial govenment in Japan. Don't they teach you anything in your Heritage Foundation correspondent courses Galty old boy?

[jake on 17.01.05 at 19:10]

Trischia,

"If the RP told him 'move along there' and the recruit told him to get lost, the RP should have called him to order in a disciplined-example-setting manner."

Are you kidding me?

Excuse my frankness, but what do you know? I am sure that your son is perfect, but for the rest of the soldiers they are told what to do in a forceful way.

Let your son grow up. Let him be a man for a change. He might grow to like it.

As for the pride, read comments above which are echoed up and down the country by those who have served - happy or not.

Don't bring your Mommy sensibilities to Warwick Camp. Believe me, they cripple young men in their development. That soldier will be on time. The rest of this is just noise from people who wouldn't spend half an hour with the young men of Bermuda. You wind up your windows as you drive past them on the wall.

In the Army we all learn a healthy respect.

[shipstones on 17.01.05 at 21:46]

Galt,
But I am using your logic.
Why should you be forced off the road because you don't want to abide by the speed limit or have a license or keep your car road worthy etc. etc. These "forces" you accept!
I am merely using your logic.
You suggest one has a choice regarding all other regulation and law except conscription?
By the way you must be potty trained before you go to Kindergarten Galt. Damn these dogooders there everywhere.
And a dogooder will beat a dobadder everytime!
Nobody is forcing you to take your blinkers off and see the world Galt but its quite a friendly place if you live within reasonable rules!
Remember, I don't agree or disagree with conscrition at this point.
Go to your quote website and give me some more rubbish!
By the way a lot of good men fought and won to save you from fascism so that you can talk like a prat freely! So don't come calling people names when you espouse anarchism yourself.
See now I have enabled you to go off on another tangent and not address the subject!

[J Galt on 18.01.05 at 09:59]

"Why should you be forced off the road because you don't want to abide by the speed limit or have a license or keep your car road worthy etc. etc. These "forces" you accept!"

Ok Shipstones,

Slow down read the post c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y. The road doesn't belong to you. Think of it as a service. Like a hotel room, you can't just let yourself into a hotel room, and stay for a week with out paying, just as you can't damage the things inside the room. You have to agree with the owner, on the price and rules of use. If you both come to terms then you have an agreement with no force being applied be either party.

See thats what you lose when you disobey the rules of the road, not your car, but the use of the road.

Did you follow me that time?

"So don't come calling people names when you espouse anarchism yourself"

Please find an example where you might have thought that I posted anything supporting anarchy, I do believe that government has a role to play, just not one that initiates force on its own people.

[loki on 18.01.05 at 10:14]

"The road doesn't belong to you."

....and neither does a country, any more than a road, a field, a playground, a school, a hospital.....

[J Galt on 18.01.05 at 13:38]

Loki,

I'm not sure I understand your point. Perhaps you could explain what you are trying to convey.

[shipstones on 18.01.05 at 17:36]

Now get this Galt, if you own a hotel you cannot run it purely as you please. You have to meet certain health standards, including putting toilet paper in the bathrooms!
Non smoking in public areas of the hotel, bar restaurant, train station, airport bus private or otherwise etc etc. etc. are regulated for health reasons so get over it! Ban smoking! Its good for you!
I know you are as thick as two short planks but "get real"

[Richard T on 12.02.05 at 14:00]

im 20 and was born in bermuda so this affects me. Currently im studying in the UK for a degree. It was with supprise that i found out from my grandma that my name had appeared in the conscription ballot last October and as im studdying till 2008 i dont have to join, but will have to if i return after my degree course. While I think the regiment should be reformed to be a more professinial force i will join the regiment if i return to Bermuda after in 2008 as i am Bermudian and will comply with its laws. Mayby it will be changed in the next 4 years....... or mayby as i have british citizenship aswell as Bermudian i should join the TA in th UK. atleast they pay you good money to join as a reserve.