What Brown Can Do For You

Royal Gazette Opinion, 27 January 2005 (unedited version, with the pun on the UPS slogan still intact in the title)

Last Monday, Minister of Tourism Dr. Ewart Brown delivered a speech in which he outlined the Government’s plan for reviving Bermuda’s tourist industry.

On the whole, it was a good speech that suggested the Minister has thought seriously about the issue. It articulated several goals and detailed a number of initiatives that will be undertaken to achieve them. It would be nice to hear something similar from Randy Horton on crime or Ashfield DeVent on housing.

But when the next election rolls around and Bermudians are evaluating the Government’s performance on tourism while deciding how to vote, how will they know if it achieved those goals? And will they even remember that the Government made them?

After I started my first job, one of the first things I learned was how to formulate a set of objectives. I was told that the goals I set should be SMART: Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic and Time-limited (‘Achievable’ means the goal is theoretically possible for somebody under ideal circumstances, ‘Realistic’ means it’s possible for you under current circumstances).

A SMART objective fosters accountability by ensuring the conditions for success are clearly specified. At the same time, it guards against the de-motivation and disappointment that can result from failing to meet an over-ambitious target. However, the fact that SMART objectives are hard to wiggle out of makes them unpopular with politicians. They usually prefer to keep their goals as vague as possible lest it count against them at the next election.

So how do Dr. Brown’s recent pledges stand up to the SMART criteria?

His first objective is to “increase air arrivals to 400,000 over the next 3 years”. Well, that’s certainly specific, measurable, achievable and time-limited. Is it realistic? The last time Bermuda had that many air arrivals was 1994; in 2004 they’d declined to around 270,000. Hitting Dr. Brown’s target will require an increase in air arrivals of 16% per year for the next three years. I fear the Minister may be setting himself up to fail.

The second objective is to “achieve our daily carrying capacity through effective management of cruise arrivals”. This isn’t quite as SMART. The World Tourism Organisation defines carrying capacity as “the maximum number of people that may visit a tourist destination at the same time, without causing destruction of the physical, economic, socio-cultural environment and an unacceptable decrease in the quality of visitors' satisfaction”. Hmm, I’d say Bermuda’s carrying capacity was about 1,563, wouldn’t you? This goal may be relatively specific, but it’s completely unmeasurable and not time-limited.

Dr. Brown’s third and fourth objectives – “increase key visitor experience ‘complete satisfaction’ indicators by 10%” and “increase per person visitor spending by 7%” – are better. Both are reasonably specific and measurable. They may be achievable and realistic too, although without the addition of a timescale it’s hard to judge.

The last goal – “increase Tourism Department efficiency, effectiveness and productivity” – is so woolly that at first I mistook it for a sheep. Small productivity improvements may be achievable and realistic, but what form would they take, how would they be measured and when should we expect to see them? The intent is laudable but if Dr. Brown is serious about improving the department he needs to set some concrete targets by which any improvement can be measured.

Fortunately, solving Bermuda’s tourism woes boils down to bringing more people here and persuading them to spend more. Dr. Brown’s objectives in these areas are pretty good. But politicians are notorious for making promises that are never heard of again.

This can be a good thing if the promise was a poor one anyway. It wasn’t very long ago that Dr. Brown was suggesting we should measure Bermuda’s success as a tourist destination by looking at the percentage of available beds occupied, rather than raw arrival numbers. That metric was flawed as it could show an increase even if arrivals and visitor spending were falling. Fortunately, Dr. Brown made no further mention of it last Monday and his new objectives suggest an acceptance that arrival numbers are important after all.

Sometimes, however, governments the world over have a habit of quietly dropping a promise if they realise they can no longer keep it. Memories are short and unless the media or Opposition pick up on it, the government’s failure will go largely unnoticed. Eternal vigilance, as they say, is the price of liberty; it’s probably the only solution here too.

Bermuda’s next election is less than three years away. Although some of them could be more specific, Dr. Brown’s objectives will provide a decent measure of the Government’s success in turning tourism around when polling day comes.

Comments

[Diane on 27.01.05 at 10:51]

Who wants to spend a vacation on an island where you might get mugged, or chopped up with a machete? Until the bunch of "clowns" who call themselves the police, turn into a real "kick-butt" deterrent to crime, we will not be back. It is a shame that Bermuda has gone down the toilet under the PLP government, because we really came to love this island over a period of some 30 years of visiting this one-time paradise.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 11:34]

Diane,

I take very strong offense to your comments about the Government in my country. Say what you will but crime exist in every country on the face of the earth. Bermuda is no different, just because it is seen by some as a paradise does not mean that it does not have social problems.

So you are saying that because Bermuda has crime you will not be back. Are you then prepared to barracade yourself in your house because I'm sure there is crime in your country, right in your home town, probably on the street where you live.

The reality is that you are still more likely to be the target of a crime in your home country than you are in Bermuda. I would rather defend myself against someone with a cutlass than with a gun.

Unlike you, I live in the real world and acknowledge the existence of crime and remain aware of my surroundings but I do not live in fear of crime.

[loki on 27.01.05 at 11:43]

Guilden,

I appreciate that you don't actually live in Bermuda but, if you did, you would realise that there has been a marked increase in violent crime, against tourists in particular over the past seven or eight years. There has also been a marked increase in anti-social behaviour over the same period. Not just a little increase, but a lot. No, we are not up there with many major cities in terms of crime and ant-social behaviour but, believe me, I don't know anyone on the island who wouldn't admit that we are seeing a very worrying trend. The problem is exagerrated to some degree by the press, but that is because this is a relatively new phenomenon.

[Onion on 27.01.05 at 12:01]

Diane, don't be so daft!

PLP has not run this country into the toilet. That is a really narrow-minded and biased comment.
What do you think the island was like in 1998??? No crime, no drugs, no violence??

Bermuda's crime just reflects the increase that has taken place over the whole world. This is not a utopia. But where else in the world can you still have a crime rate as low as Bermuda?

Go home to your safe country wherever that is. I'm tired of listenng to such foolishness.

Be realistic please.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 12:03]

Loki,

If you have ever studied economics you will have noted that as a economy expands there are those that are left behind and do not feel they are benefitting from this expansion. This leads to an increased rate of crime.

Bermuda's economy has grown tremendously over the past 7 or 8 years. Just look at the new insurance and reinsurance capital tha has been injected into new companies operating out of Bermuda.

Many unskilled, uneducated hae been, in many ways, excluded for the economy and this, rightly or wrongly has increased the rate of crime.

I am just sick and tired of people trying to place the blame on the Government. The police force is adequately manned and has the autonomy to do what is necessary to curtain crime. As I mentioned in a post under another topic Bermuda has more police officers on a per capita basis than does New York City. What more can the Government do about crime in Bermuda?

Crime rates are increasing world wide, including here in the Bahamas but I just read a report today that the number of tourist visting the Bahamas has now surpassed 5 million. Most people realise that crime exists and there are certain precautions you must take. That is all I am saying.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 12:04]

Onion,

Thank you very much. But like they say ignorance is bliss.

[Andrew on 27.01.05 at 13:43]

Guilden,

I agree with your economical perspective on one possible cause of an increase in crime. However, when you suggest that the police force is adequately manned, I think you actually mean that they are not adequately manned. Here are just a few examples.

http://www.theroyalgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040329/NEWS/103290031&SearchID=73197347699216

From a police source: “Officers have to deal with…real emergencies. It would be hard to find time for this (enforcing a law), particularly as we are undermanned.” March 29, 2004

http://www.theroyalgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031114/MIDOCEAN/111140115&SearchID=73197347699216

“Growing incidents of violent crime [are] threatening the quality of life on the island and Government need[s] to urgently adopt a…plan to bolster Bermuda’s overworked, undermanned Police Service.” November 11, 2003

http://www.theroyalgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030303/NEWS/103030005&SearchID=73197347699216

Club and Bar owners met “with Police and fire officials after claiming they could take no more trouble from drink and drug-soaked youths. They said they were fearing for Bermuda's tourist trade once the cruise ship season begins in April, and said they were tired of hearing that the Police Service was undermanned.” March 3, 2003

I find this last one particularly contradictory to your point:

http://www.theroyalgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20021211/OPINION/112110064&SearchID=73197347699216

“It should be a major concern when there are apparently only two officers on mobile patrol for all three eastern parishes…It is also fair to assume that the same situation exists in the central parishes and the West End” December 11, 2002

A simple search of the Royal Gazette’s website with keywords “police” and “undermanned” turned up these articles and many more. I simply want to bring you in on some minor details about Bermuda because, as far as I can gather, you are currently not a resident.

[Philip Barnett on 27.01.05 at 13:49]

With all due respect Guilden,

What other city/region in other first world countries with a population of 60,000 has the murders, theft, drug trade, and general open lawlessness that we seemingly have in Bermuda today? Yes Diane's attack on the PLP as the sole reason for the increase in crime may be incorrect, but we need to look past her misguided blame and instead focus on what I see is the underlying message. She is clearly saying that she USED to come to Bermuda because it was a "paradise" unlike anything she could experience in her country. Antisocial behaviour and criminal activity is on the rise, and we as a Bermudian society must stamp it out. As a voter in this country, as a business owner dependent on Tourism in this country, but most importantly as a father of two children in this country, I demand that the elected officials of this country do something about the current state of affairs.

We have not nor ever should be like "every country on the face of the earth". If "every country" wishes to let crime and violence spiral out of control, that is their choice. I choose to demand that our leaders take a zero tolerance approach to the problem, demand more "Policing" out of our police, and allocate more of the public purse as necessary to eradicate the problem. You and I both have an inalienable right to walk down Front Street, Court Street, or in King's Square at night without fear of violent attacks; my children have the inalienable right to attend a football game without the horror of all out gang warfare erupting with unspeakable violence and what must be absolute hatred (which is the only seeming explanation for someone to mercilessly chop at another human being's prone figure with a machete).

It must start with a swift and unrelenting counterattack against the currently exhibited behaviour and lawlessness, THEN we can methodically attack the reasons that led to our current situation. To use an analogy, if someone is having a heart attack in front of you, do you sit down and muse what lead to his heart attack (smoking, poor diet, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, lack of physical exercise) and watch him die, or do you roll your sleeves up, administer CPR, and save his life first?

Me? I choose to roll my sleeves up, and try and save Tourism. You have to understand, visitors will only come and spend money in the local economy if it IS the "Paradise Bermuda"; not because it WAS the "former Paradise Bermuda".

I give the Honourable Minister, Dr. Brown my full attention as he Talks The Talk, and openly applaud him for his message. Now, can he Walk The Walk? More, can he get his fellow Cabinet Minister's to? If not, the Diane's of this world will certainly walk... to anywhere else but here.

[jake on 27.01.05 at 14:11]

Diane,

Welcome back to the Limey site.

I agree with you that there is much work to be done to take the battle against crime and perpetual criminals to their doorstep. I too am tired of feeling like lawlessness rules the day.

Bermuda is trying to improve our tourism product in earnest. We would love for you to come back. Honestly. Just be sure that there are many Bermudians who are as fed up as you are. If you allow us a little time to spread the message that we do have a problem that deserves national aattention, and then work those problems out, we hope you will once again return to your home away from home. 30 years is a long time. We don't want to spoil that relationship.

I am a PLP supporter, and believe me, we are very concerned too.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 14:26]

Andrew,

Thank you for bringing those articles to my attention. However, I refer you to the follwoing web page:

http://www.bermuda.org.uk/bermuda_police.htm

You will note the following comment on the page:

"The islands boast probably the highest number of police officers per head of population of any where in the world."

It also state "the island plays at policing - it is more a hobby than a profession."

Who's fault is that? Is it the fault of the Government or is it the fault of the Police Force hierarchy?

If Bermuda has more police officers per head of population then anywhere else in the world the force cannot be under-manned, it has to come down to improper administration and utilisation of the force. How many officers are charged with policing traffic versus those assigned other areas of the force? You have to admit that police officer in Bermuda place a great deal of emphasis on traffic violations.

[Onion on 27.01.05 at 14:31]

Philip,

To say we have a high crime rate for a tiny country is misleading. Bermuda has one of the highest everything in the world. Per square mile we have the most golf courses, churches, schools, houses, AIDS, money$$$, dogs, cats, fleas, etc etc etc. We are a dense country and so of course we have a high percentage of good and bad things.

However, let us not be so simplistic as to say our crime is the result of poor policing. Neither a bigger police force nor bigger prisons will solve the problem. What is the root of the problem?

There is no excuse for anyone to be weilding a machete at someone in any public place or rioting on the streets. However, when we have international business driving up the price of rent and property, less Bermudians can afford to buy or rent. So they turn to crime. We brag about how great our int'l biz is but if you are not educated you cannot participate or benefit. So you turn to crime. When marijuana is worth more per ounce than gold in Bermuda (literally!!) you turn to crime. When you come up through a UBP public education system (which unfortunately is carried on by the PLP), a system that has failed the majority of Bermudians (outside of Berkely, WA), they turn to crime. Crime is inexcusable, and there is NO justification for it!! But the answer is NOT just in the police. You must look at the root cause of the problem.

As the Colonel said on tv, a lot of these guys who come into the Regiment have no concept of responsibility, they've never had a father in their life, their peers are all into buying and selling drugs, and they see no great future for themselves. Many of these guys, when given discipline for the first time manage to turn their lives around and become outstanding members of society. They are all very intelligent individuals. These same guys are the ones working around the clock cleaning up your street after Hurrican Fabian. These are the same ones who VOLUNTEERED to go to Caymans for a month to help fix up their country.

Maybe this should give us a clue about how to resolve our crime rate.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 14:36]

Onion,

Good post.

[shipstones on 27.01.05 at 15:17]

Drugs and and gangs are reason for increased crime! Nobody steals money from a car unless he is desperate. It is not the food its the hit he needs! Solve the drug problem, solve the crime problem. You can't employ or educate someone on drugs, they just can't concentrate on anything but drugs.
How about teaching the seven principles of clean living. Make it "in" to be "clean"!
Guilden,
When you are here next go to the magistrates court and sit and watch and listen to the people detained and what they are detained for etc. See how they react between each other. There is a seperate society which shuns everything about law and order!
By the way if there are so many policemen, where are they???

[Diane on 27.01.05 at 15:27]

Thank you both Philip and Jake for your very insightful comments. The only reason I blamed the PLP for the current state of lawlessness is that since they have been in power the atmosphere in Bermuda has become unspeakably violent. Having known the way Bermuda was before, our family is in a state of shock at the type of just plain mean-spirited crime that prevails on the island. Perhaps someone could also answer the question as to why crime is hard to control when the island is so small...I believe it is 22 miles long and only a few miles wide. Why can't more police be added to the force ? I would also assume that everyone knows everyone else on a small island...why are the youth let run like this in gangs? Again, this is a tiny island....what gives? Is there corruption in the police dept. ? We would dearly love to return to Bermuda....and it just breaks my heart to see what has happened to this unique island. Bermuda is not a Carribean island !! It sits out in the Atlantic by itself. It has its own special history. Bermudians are Bermudians. They are wonderful, caring, kind, soft spoken, polite people. We want the island to keep its own traditions and history and to be proud of it. And, as Philip Barnett so beautifully said, Bermuda should not be like "every other county on the face of the earth". I'll never forget my first glimpse of Bermuda looking out of the window of the plane as we flew closer and closer ....all of a sudden a reflection of that wonderful, magical blue-green water came up through the plane as we landed. I remember thinking this is like Peter Pan's Never-Never land......I was only 18 at the time. I have had a love affair with Bermuda ever since. If I am critical, it is because I love this island so very, very much and I always want it to be the best that it can be.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 15:30]

Shipstone,

I cannot tell you where the policemen are. Did you read my post about many of them could be. Maybe in the bushes with a radar detector. Maybe instead of pressuring the police with regard to traffic violations people should apply pressure to have the police focus on combatting crime and then officers can be re-assigned. There is a balance that needs to be reached and nobod has yet been able to figure out what that balance is.

Bermuda has always had a high number of police officers per capita. This information is nothing new. Having a large per capita force is obviously not working.

I do not dispute that there is a high usage rate of drugs in Bermuda. As far as eradicating the drug problem, how many persons incarcerated for drug use are placed in mandatory rehabit programmes?

You say gangs and drug are the reason for increased crime. I refer you again to my earlier post about what happens to some people when an economy grows. Those that feel excluded turn to violence and drugs. Economic facts and it happens the world over. How can Bermuda be expected to be any different.

[Philip Barnett on 27.01.05 at 15:35]

Onion,

"However, when we have international business driving up the price of rent and property, less Bermudians can afford to buy or rent. So they turn to crime..."

RUBBISH!

People turn to crime because it is all about risk and return!! Criminals go out and steal it/sell it because they can get a bucket load of money with relatively little time spent and seemingly little chance of getting caught/convicted/sentenced.
We as a society need to increase the risk, and diminish the return. If you do it, you will get caught and prosecuted and jailed. If you buy it, you will get the same. Take away the demand and there is no need for supply.
In addition, I agree that to cure the disease you must also get to the root cause. But let's be honest, that is not going to happen overnight, it is going to take a generation to stop the cycle. We CAN immediately put the disease in check though, stop it from killing us, allowing us time to attack the root cause, whether it be children having babies, or villages not raising the child.
You make a point that the regiment instills discipline. Yes it may, but so too can the father figures of the Worshipfuls' Francis and Greaves, as they sentence the village children to prison (and yes there MUST be better programs to prevent recidivism).
Your comments smack those hard working Bermudian's making an HONEST living through hard work right in the mouth; those Bermudian's that live by their own moral scruples and make daily conscious choices to do what is right and refuse what is wrong.

Byes sit on a wall and don't work and sell drugs because it is easy. Not because they can't afford a house in Tuckers Town. You want to START to resolve our crime rate? Start with the people committing the crimes.

[replicator on 27.01.05 at 15:36]

With regards to the numbers of officers in the Bermuda Police force compared to other jurisdictions, no-one has yet mentioned the fact that larger communities can achieve some economies of scale that Bermuda cannot. We're like a small town, but one that can't call in the resources of the nearest major city/counties expertise, so we have to maintain a larger infrastructure.

I would argue that that is an important factor we all need to bear in mind.

There are of course some operational inefficiencies, but I'd expect a small community providing a modern police force would have a higher number of officers per capita. That's ok, actually I wish it was higher.

One part of the problem I see is the lowering of standards in recruiting as well as a few major traffic accidents or major crimes pulling 20-30 cops off the streets and into investigation mode.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the per capita number.

And then of course there is the culture of contempt for authority that has become very pervasive here in recent history.

[Diane on 27.01.05 at 15:40]

Bravo, Philip and well said !!!...You should run for political office.....

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 15:42]

Replicator,

Wait a second here, as Bermuda is a dependent territory and Great Britain has responsibility for internal security should we not be able to turn to HRH Police force for resources? Oh, I forgot the last time we turned to the U.K. for help we were slapped with a significant bill. Hint - the reinforcement that came in to end the the roits of, I believe, 1976.

[shipstones on 27.01.05 at 15:56]

Guilden,
You want something for nothing?
My understanding is, UK cops aren't welcome particularly if they are white!
You would prefer those people that black Bermudians used to call jump ups!

[replicator on 27.01.05 at 15:58]

Who cares that we got a bill, we got the resources didn't we?

I seem to also recall that after Fabian we told them no thanks when they offered support for the cleanup.

I'm not interested in turning this into a BS Alex Scott type contortion to justify independence. This thread is about policing.

[Diane on 27.01.05 at 15:58]

Guilden,

Good point. I had thought about that aspect too. What is Great Britain doing to protect her territory concerning this crime problem? What if the Governor of Bermuda was chased down Front Street by a machete-carrying thug? What then? Would he send for the Royal Marines? What bill was Bermuda slapped with by Great Britain?

[Onion on 27.01.05 at 16:21]

Diane,

I am glad you mentioned Never Never Land because that sums up your unrealistic view of Bermuda. You live in a bubble and Guilden and I have burst it by giving you a reality check. You continue to talk about how wonderful the island was before 1998. I dare say your bias is a bit laughable. Some of the biggest riots this island has ever seen was under the UBP government. Your message doesn't really make any sense. You talk about Bermudians being gently, kind hearted people etc. And then you say it is unspeakably violent in Bermuda. Then you start talking about the blue water, and then about some Peter Pan nonesense. What rubbish are you talking? Make sense please. Back up your comments.

Philip,

People don't just do crime because they can get away with it. if that were the case, you and I might be criminals (I assume you are not one.)I do not see how my comments offend the hard working people in Bermuda. You will note I said such crime is inexcusable!! But I am also saying flooding the streets with police everywhere is not going to stop the problem. The UBP tried this with operation Cleansweep and failed. They built a larger prison and what has this done? Only made the prison experience that much more pleasant.

Perhaps we should refocus the police activities away from other less pressing issues. Perhaps the current force needs more efficiency.

[shipstones on 27.01.05 at 16:28]

Cleansweep was working but was stopped because they were getting too near the top !
Drugs, get rid of them! you will solve the violent crime problem!

[Onion on 27.01.05 at 16:32]

Shipstones,

You make an interesting point.

You say:"Cleansweep was working but was stopped because they were getting too near the top !"

This was done during the UBP era, so who was at the top? Maybe Diane can answer this.

[shipstones on 27.01.05 at 16:37]

We will never know!
Mat be it wasn't a politician. May be a lawyer!

[Diane on 27.01.05 at 16:38]

Onion,
Thanks for the info....I am assuming you live on the island, so therefore have a better understanding of what is going on. I never knew that riots took place under the UBP government. It is true, that not living in Bermuda, we only see it through rose-colored glasses. Keep on giving those reality checks. You act as a good balance to those tourists, like myself, who have over-romanticized what we thought once existed.

[Onion on 27.01.05 at 16:45]

Shipstones,

How about a combo of the two!! We've had enough of those types!!!:-)

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 16:45]

Shipstone,

I never said I wanted something for nothing. I was only correcting something Replicator said about other resources. Our constitution states that Great Britain is responsible for internal security, if it is not being handled properly than maybe Great Britain should honour its responsibility. One thing I could never understand is how Great Britain can have responsibility for internal security while we pay for it.

I have never in my life referred to anyone as a "Jump-Up" and never will. I was raised to respect people until they prove that they do not deserve it. Further, what are you trying to insinuate by saying that I would prefer "those people that black Bermudians used to call jump ups!" Did I ever state that had a problem with British Police Officers? Not that it is any of your concern but my mother happens to be white and was born and raised in England.

Take the time to get to know someone before you decide to judge because to do otherwise is prejudice? And all along you were saying you are not a prejudice person.

Diane,

At 39 years old I cannot say with certainty what the bill was for the British troops who were sent in to end the riots but I believe, and I stand to be corrected that it was a few hundred thousand dollars.

[Philip Barnett on 27.01.05 at 16:46]

Onion,

i didn't say "People don't just do crime because they can get away with it." I said crime and drug dealing is all about risk and reward.
I agree with you abour repositioning our current force. Methinks there are far too many chiefs and far too few indians, plus lets be honest, that $1000 fine for dealing is a horrible return on investment of numerous officers/dogs/specialized equipment, compared to the $10,000 that one officer with a laser gun can generate in the afternoon at East Broadway. Guilden, you and I agree on that point.
For the police to trot out the rubbish about stopping the carnage on the streets, why don't I ever see radar traps at 1am on Hog Bay level through to Cambridge Road (oh yeah, late at night/past policemans bedtime/only get four - 100 k.p.h. maniacs (who do it every night) compared to the fifty - 55 k.p.h. office workers "rushing" home).
Yes, return on investment and risk vs. reward, we are a veritable Economics 101 society.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 16:49]

Onion,

You took the words right off my screen. Who is at the top and why did the UBP put an end to the operation and send the British Commissioner back (I can't remember his name for the life of me)?

I think I posted somewhere else in here that the people who are arreested for drugs are only pushers the importers have, I guess been protected because of who they are our who they associate with.

[replicator on 27.01.05 at 16:55]

Guilden, I thought the Bermuda Government was helpless to deal with policing as it is the UK's territory (you said they're responsible for internal security)? So how the hell did the UBP put an end to Cleansweep?

I'm not saying they didn't, I'm just saying you can't have it both ways, crowing about the UK as having control and then stating that the UBP had enough control to end an operation.

[shipstones on 27.01.05 at 17:03]

Guilden,
It was a generalization. But guess what as fornicator learned we have to be careful what we say as people take it personally. Now don't side step the issue. Why would a current Bermuda government (PLP) ask for help from people who don't look like them? They prefer people that that Bermudians in general used to call jump ups! We may even get some Cubans soon!

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 17:05]

Replicator,

I never said that the Government was helpless. You made the comment that Bermuda was different in that it could not access resources for help in policing. I pointed out that under our constitution Great Britain has responsibility for internal security (police, fire brigade, regiment)

I also said that I felt that the police force was adequately manned and any problems must be in the adminsitration of the force.

When I said about Great Britain stepping in I was sugesting that those who feel the job is not being done properly should turn to Great Britain to live up to its obligation under the constitution under which we live.

Replicator, I trus you are starting to realise that I enjoy a good debate. Call me arrogant but rest assured I am adequately armed to handle myself in the debates I choose to enter. So if you wish to continue, bring it on.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 17:11]

Shipstone,

Are you now implying that the Police Officers that come from Great Britain are better than those who come from the Caribbean. If not then maybe you should re-word your posts because that is what your posts imply.

When did I ever say that we need to look outside the country for police officers? I believe the force is large enough. For crying out loud it has the highest number of officers per capita than any other force in the world.

Finally, what the hell does Cuba have to do with all of this. My understanding is that the relationship is for cultural exchange only. Further, I have addressed the 2-faced nature of the U.S. regarding Cuba. In 2003 the U.S. was a big trading partner of Cuba, they sold beef to Cuba. How can you on the one hand expect countries to isolate Cuba when you yourself are trading with the country?

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 17:57]

Replicator,

"Who cares that we got a bill, we got the resources didn't we?

I seem to also recall that after Fabian we told them no thanks when they offered support for the cleanup."

Out of your comments come some interesting points. In your initial post you say we do not have access to resources now you are say that we got the resources. If you are going to debate me at least be consistent so as to make me work to prove my point.

Clearly Bermuda did not need support after Fabian. I have been home since Fabian hit and the Island was cleaned up very nicely. Does that not prove we can do things on our own it we act together as a country?

[shipstones on 27.01.05 at 18:05]

"Wait a second here, as Bermuda is a dependent territory and Great Britain has responsibility for internal security should we not be able to turn to HRH Police force for resources?"

These are your words Guilden! I merely pointed out that people that Bermudians used to treat with disrespect are now our policeforce!

[shipstones on 27.01.05 at 18:14]

Guilden,
Don't you think I realise that your main goal is to turn everything I say into a racist comment?

I repeat what you say ad verbatim!

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 18:14]

Shipstone,

Yes, they are my words and I was using the to address Replicator's comments that Bermuda had no where to secure outside resources.

In all honesty I don't get the point of your second sentence. If you are referring to officers of Caribbean descent then I disagree with you. Colin Blades has been widely accepted by the Bermudian population. Ian Moe is widely accept. He and many other officers from the Caribbean have married Bermudian women. Many of the officer from the Caribbean have been a part of Cup Match and National squads.

Quite frankly much the same could also be applied to some British officers.

What is it you are trying to imply? Please make a sensile point that I can respond to, otherwise please read my post to Replicator regarding my ability to handle myself in a debate i choose to enter.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 18:16]

Hello?

When and where did I turn anything into a racist comment? Did you not take your medication today? Or are you confusing me with someone else?

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 18:17]

Sounds to me like you are feeling a little guilty about something. Have I ever called you a racist or implied that you were a racist? If I did please direct me to the post.

[shipstones on 27.01.05 at 18:29]

"The problem I have with people like Shipstone is that when you mention something like the disparity in income between blacks and whites his first response is not to research it but to deny it is fact. Its amazing how he could not take me at my word when I raised it yet never questioned Limey when he presented the page numbers out of the Census."

Your words Guilden, insinuating that because I accepted fact from a white guy I was racist! You are very shallow in your debating!

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 18:38]

Was what I said untrue? I stated a fact you questioned my comments. But when Limey gave you the page numbers you then accept it as fact. Where is the racist comment in that?

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 18:50]

Where in that did i say you accepted fact from a white guy? I said you accepted fact from Limey.

Why do you say I am shallow in my debating because I have countere everything you have said? Sounds more like sore grapes to me.

[shipstones on 27.01.05 at 18:53]

What Dereck Burgess said wasn't racist either was it! I said "Insinuating"!

You haven't answered a damn thing I've raised!

Where is your reply about Bermuda hiring only people that look like renee? just one. Thats why Bermuda doesn't hire UK cops isn't it?

[shipstones on 27.01.05 at 18:59]

Bahamas, land of milk and honey!

In February, the body of a young man was found on the Grand Bahama Freeway. The family of the victim made allegations of police mistreatment following the coroner's report that his wounds were not the result of a traffic accident as previously thought. Police claimed there was no evidence to support the family's assertion, and the matter remained before the Coroner's Court at year's end.

On August 7, a RBPF reserve police officer shot and killed a 16-year-old girl. Police asserted that the victim's friend brandished a weapon and fired, which resulted in return fire by the police. The supposed gun used by the victim's friend was not found. The Coroner's Court, which investigates cases involving sudden or unnatural deaths arising from accident or violence, was reviewing her death at year's end.

In December 2002, police officers shot and killed a young man who was fleeing a suspicious vehicle. Claiming the man was armed and reaching for a gun, police initiated the gunfire. Further investigation proved the victim was unarmed. At year's end, this matter remained before the Coroner's Court.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 19:00]

Am responsible for the hiring of persons in Bermuda? How would you wish me to approach Renee's comments. Quite frankly I agree because under the UBP all large scale Government contract went to "white" firms to the exclusion of the "black" firms. Unfortunately the history of Bermuda has shown that it is okay for a black to work on a site but he can't own the company.

I believe C.V. Jim Woolridge said it best, "The white boys don't mind a black boy being in charge as long as they can tell him what to do." I do believe Jim was a Minister under the UBP.

Need say more?

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.01.05 at 19:04]

Ships,

Youcan go on and on about the Bahamas and its crime. I can tell you that there has been a riot all today in one neighbourhood here in Nassau because the police allegedly shot someone who was attacking them.

But I thought this forum was to discuss Bermuda and its issues.

Just in case you missed it, even with all te crime you are stating the tourist visting Nassau has increase from 4 to 5 million. Is the level of crime holding back the economy? Not at all because as I said it is not random crime.

[shipstones on 27.01.05 at 19:09]

No the point is Guilden you used Bahamas as a primary example of a great country that went Independent and is a model for Bermuda.
You also said that it is not part of Caribbean. Trivial but where do you get this rubbish?

[shipstones on 27.01.05 at 19:12]

So the white bosses did it! We are now the Boss man so we will do it! Eye for an Eye! Shoes on the other foot! Not equality for all! There is nothing left whites, you must go fornicate in the bushes and increase the white population!
Crazy logic isn't it?