Do We Really Lack A National Identity?

Royal Gazette Opinion, Thursday 21 April 2005

One of the most surprising things to emerge during Bermuda’s independence debate is the number of Bermudians who have said that they don’t have a sense of national pride.

At the recent meetings of the Bermuda Independence Commission several attendees said that they are ashamed to admit that they live in a British Dependent Territory. Some said that Bermuda needs a flag and national anthem to call its own. Others believe that the forging of a common national identity will help eliminate racism.

Do Bermudians really lack a national identity, as even the Premier professes to believe? Most Bermudians seem to be exceptionally proud of their home. They are keen supporters of the Island’s athletes in international events and enthusiastic participants in its cultural celebrations. They fly kites on Good Friday, watch the parade on May 24th, and play crown and anchor at Cup Match. These do not seem like people with an identity crisis.

It’s interesting to compare the patriotism on display here with that seen in other countries. Arguably the most patriotic country is the United States, as I was reminded during my recent holiday in Florida.

While eating my lunch in the USA section of the Epcot World Showcase one day, the Spirit of America Fife and Drum Corps marched past playing the American national anthem. As they did, roughly half of the diners around me put down their cheeseburgers and sodas and stood up in respect. Many placed their hands on their hearts.

At SeaWorld, the park’s killer whale show was prefaced with a screening of an Anheuser-Busch commercial honouring the US military. It was followed by an invitation to every member of the US armed forces (or those of their allies) in the audience to stand, to allow the rest of us to applaud them.

Displays such as these can seem naïve and even slightly disturbing to those whose patriotic instincts are less developed. In Europe, unfettered nationalism is still regarded with suspicion, remembered as the cause of many of the wars that have wracked the continent. While there’s much I love about the UK, like many British people I remain cynical about showing such unquestioning allegiance to the land mass on which I happened to be born. I’m not arrogant enough to believe that the UK is better than any other country; I feel no obligation to stand when I hear God Save The Queen; and I wouldn’t even consider flying the Union Jack in my yard, even if I was still living in the UK.

A study conducted in 1998 by the National Opinion Research Centre (NORC) at the University of Chicago sought to provide a more quantitative measure of national pride. 23 nations were studied using two scales. The first looked at pride in specific achievements, such as science, sports and the arts. The second considered general national pride, using questions with a harder edge that focused on feelings of national superiority.

Unsurprisingly, the US was ranked as the most patriotic nation overall, coming second on both scales. Great Britain was the 11th most patriotic overall, but only 14th on the general scale. 90% of the American respondents said that they would rather be citizens of the US than of any other country, higher than in any of the other countries surveyed. In Great Britain the figure was 71%.

How does feeling in Bermuda compare? I decided to ask the five questions in the NORC’s general national pride scale on A Limey In Bermuda. Any Bermudian who wishes to take the survey can do so here until the end of next week.

Being an internet poll, the results are unscientific and may not be representative of Bermudians as a whole. That caveat aside, the preliminary results suggest Bermudians are not strong believers in the superiority of their country. 77% agree that there are some things about Bermuda that make them ashamed, far higher than the highest score in the NORC survey. This could be because those who are not ashamed by some of the antics of Bermuda’s government are likely to be the ones ashamed by Bermuda’s status as a British territory.

Bermudians also seem to value morality above allegiance to the flag: a mere 6% think people should support Bermuda even if it’s wrong, much lower than the NORC’s lowest score.

Independence probably would increase national pride in Bermuda, if only by removing the colonial status that some regard as a source of shame. But that seems unlikely to lead to more tangible benefits. Despite the patriotism of the US, its politics is no less partisan and its race relations no less strained than they are here.

Comments

[H Reardon on 21.04.05 at 09:59]

Good read.

[April on 21.04.05 at 11:18]

National Pride? It's a funny topic here in Bermuda and that's been my opinion for the last 11.5 years of living here. If most Bermudians would realize that most people have a low geography IQ then they wouldn't have to worry about being an independant colony. Most people don't know where Mexico is let alone Bermuda and to whom she belongs. Isn't it the spirit of National Pride an intangible feeling coming from within? Independence will not magically instill it in you if you don't already have it.

As a person of immense national pride myself, National Pride is a feeling that my country has accomplished this...my country gives me freedom! My country is that... If you don't feel Bermuda has accomplished anything or doesn't represent itself with dignity (and I use that loosely) then you won't automatically have it after Independence.

A Yank...married to a Bermudian.

[Winston on 21.04.05 at 12:05]

I think all nations of the world should just hoist up the UN flag. I think history is bunk and any/all comments on patriotism/national identity are jingoistic and brutish.

[Fire on 21.04.05 at 12:10]

Bermudians do not have a national identity. That is because the island is so fragmented into different social groups and rarely does anything bring us together.

We have never really supported our atheletes to any great degree - certainly not in comparison to other countries. One need only talk to Nicky Saunders, our gold medalist in the Commonwealth Games, about the lack of support he received from his country (tanglible support). Troy Douglas became a Dutch citizen for that reason as well. If Clarence Hill was from any other country he would have been put in their Hall of Fame years ago. Our national football team has to pay to use the NSC and has to wait in line with hockey and rugby teams to use facility. A national sport should not have to wait in line.

There is nothing that binds us all together to give us a national identity.

Race still divides us for the most part.

[H Reardon on 21.04.05 at 12:11]

Winston, that sure would make the World Cup and the Olympics boring.

[Tiger Bay on 21.04.05 at 12:24]

What is a national identity? My experience is that Bermudians are intensely attached to - and proud of - our island.

I am not sure that sports heros have much to do with national identity.

[Somers on 21.04.05 at 12:35]

When you are visiting a foreign country and someone asks where you are from, do you say Bermuda and get a happy feeling inside? Or do you tell them Bermuda and feel indifferent...

That good feeling is called national pride - if you don't get the good feeling, going independant won't help you find it.

[Proud to be Bermudian on 21.04.05 at 12:44]

I had the same experience at the BIC meeting in Warwick and noted similar comments at the SCC meeting when I tuned in on the radio. It was really depressing to hear that there are people in the community who feel so strongly that they don't have any pride in Bermuda. I did note that the majority of these people were over the age of 40 - so perhaps that sense of pride is stronger in the lower age groups.

Personally - I have a strong sense of National Pride. I am Bermudian and proud of it. I have represented Bermuda in sports and for business - and have never had an issue identifying myself to anyone. Most of the Bermudians I know are much the same way - both black and white.

That being said - I don't particularly support all things that go on in Bermuda - who does! For a small island - there are a number of things that do not fill me with pride - most of them have been topics on this site. Others have been policies of present and past governments.

As for this needing a new flag to bolster our sense of national pride - I find this so irritating that it isn't even funny any more! I proudly fly the Bermuda flag at home (when I remember) and on the boat. Just try and take that right away from me.

[Bill Cook on 21.04.05 at 12:49]

Tiger,
Try telling that to any Brazilian football fan,
when discussing PEL'E !!

[Bill Cook on 21.04.05 at 12:54]

Proud,
you obviously have difficulty identifying yourself one this forum to your fellow Bermudians though.
That in itself is revealing and should tell you something.

[Craig Davis on 21.04.05 at 13:04]

I don't have a problem at all telling everyone I'm proud to be Bermudian.

And I'll be delighted to discuss the matter over a Corona anytime...

[Two Cents on 21.04.05 at 13:04]

Fire,

I doubt very much that "If Clarence Hill was from any other country he would have been put in their Hall of Fame years ago". Unless that country's Hall of Fame nomination is strictly based on athletic achievement, with no regard for morals, or character.

Don't get me wrong, if Clarence Hill continues to stay on the straight and narrow, and with his coaching of younger up & coming boxers, as well as his "Boxing Camp" (due to start this summer) then I will lead the parade for Mr. Hill, it would be in my opinion pre-mature to induct him now.

Regarding national pride, I think that our national pride is dying as our 30+ aged bermudians get older. One would only have to ride the bus with school kids on it. Half of them have the "rap-star, BET/MTV influenced dress" and act as if Boyz in the Hood & Do the Right Thing were a "how-to instructional videos" not films based
on fiction. The other half with their "put on Jamaican" accents, are our very own wannabe reggae superstars.

Lack of male role models is helping to increase this. Lacking pride both in ourselves and in our country go hand in hand. This seems in my observations to cross all barriers black, white from St. George's to Somerset. (yes Wolfie ...even in God's country).
With no real role models at home, it's no wonder that kids look up to Kobe Bryant and R.Kelly.

[Bill Cook on 21.04.05 at 13:43]

Craig,
if you will settle for a Monte Cristo#4 I will join you, even though I should know better!
I too have represented Bermuda in sport but only came here a tad under 50 yrs ago.
I also represented Ireland internationally. Was selected for the Olympics and view nationalistic fervor with mixed feelings.
The Olympic ideal of bringing the PEOPLE of the planet together to celebrate the commonality of their humanity not their color or place of origin or even sex or religion ends up doing just the opposite as the Nationalism divides rather than unites, at the end of the games we all mix up not in our own national groups but in a real hodge podge and that is where the hugs and the tears flow not at the opening ceremony.

[Winston on 21.04.05 at 14:03]

It was being sarcastic. As an outsider...I was in Bermuda last June and watched the National Team play Honduras in a World Cup Qualifier at the National Stadium. The atmosphere was AWESOME and felt very unique and genuine.

[Onion on 21.04.05 at 14:42]

Bermuda has some national pride but it is not maximised in the way it should be. School children in Bermuda are not educated on Bermuda history or culture. Our icons of national identity are not really celebrated.

As Fire mentioned, the way we treat our national heroes is a testament to our national pride (or lack thereof). I think the main reason we are a little lukewarm in this department is because of the wealth of our country. We are so comfortable (or at least we like to think we are) that we are not as passionate about are people's achievements. We celebrate the moment of success but we don't support them in the long run.

Eg. We all cheer when Bermuda is playing Honduras in football. But where is the national pride when the national team needs sponsorship to prepare for World Cup. Third World nations, including some of our cousins to the south, are able to get more proactive responses from businesses to sponsor their respective teams. Bermuda, the reinsurace capital of the world with one of the highest GDP's per capita, struggles every year to get $ for its national sports.

On the other side of the coin where is the national pride when a player selected for the national team can't bother to show up to train??? What happened to the honour of playing for the team? I know some have financial commitments and cannot take out time to play, but many just don't feel like it.

Then you have Bermudians, young, old, black, white, of all different backgrounds who seem to identify with other cultures. You ever bump into a Bermudian who works in eg. an exempt co and you cannot tell them apart from the North Americans in the way they talk and act? Then you have those who try to sound more English than the English. Not to mention some of our young kids who try to talk like what they think is Jamaican patois and know nothing of the real Jamaican culture.

Although we have many things that make us unique it is almost as if we are trained to accept other cultures over our own, as though whatever we have here is inadequate. This type of thinking usually translates into a "foreign is better" mentality.

[Bermudian studying abroad in the US on 21.04.05 at 14:51]

Being a Bermudian studying in university abroad, I have an immense sense of pride in my country. Whenever someone asks me where I am from, I am always very happy to tell them Bermuda, to which I always get a positive response: "Oh wow, you're so lucky to live in such a great place!" Granted, these people don't have an insider's view to the problems within our country, but maybe even that could be construed as a good thing - the great things about our country overshadow the negative issues and politics that Bermudians pick to pieces (not to say that we shouldn't). We're so much better off than almost every other country in the world. I don't need a new flag or a new song to make me feel Bermudian - my entire family, all of my friends and everything I recognise as home are in Bermuda, and after all, isn't home where the heart is? All of that being said, I am ashamed of our education system - for a country with a population of over 60,000 to have only a two year community college that most universities abroad won't recognise as an accredited instituion is ridiculous. Until this is resolved, more scholarships need to be offered so that Bermudians can afford to continue their studies in more internationally recognised universities.

[Weeee on 21.04.05 at 15:05]

As a student abroad in the US. Many people ask me whether Bermuda is a part of America and inside me I want to scream! Or some people call me British and I correct them, "no I am Bermudian." I don't think any Bermudian should be ashamed of where they are from. We should all feel really lucky to come from a place with such rich traditions and culture

[Onion on 21.04.05 at 15:06]

Bermudian studying abroad,

When I was abroad in university I got the same feeling of euphoria when I spoke about Bermuda to people from other countries. Now try this. Go have a discussion with someone from, say, another Caribbean island and compare how many uniquely Bermudian things we celebrate. Talk about music, national dishes, festivals, poetry, history etc. We always come up woefully short, not b/c we don't have any of these things, but b/c few of us even know about them b/c they are not celebrated in Bermuda.

In my opinion national pride/identity needs to manifest itself in something tangible - beyond just a feeling of "I like Bermuda."

[Film Fan on 21.04.05 at 15:30]

"Half of them have the "rap-star, BET/MTV influenced dress" and act as if Boyz in the Hood & Do the Right Thing were a "how-to instructional videos" not films based on fiction."

Um, the two movies you mentioned most certainly are NOT even remotely relevant to the current state of BET/MTV. If anything, the films stood for the very opposite of the values promoted on TV today. Rent them for yourself - especially Do The Right Thing.

[Bermudian Studying Abroad in the US on 21.04.05 at 15:47]

Onion,

Thankfully, because I have a good memory, I can bring up first year Bermudian History (before the school system was changed, that is) and tell everyone all about our history and festivals we celebrate - Peppercorn Day in St. George's and how the annual rent the Mason's paid for the Old State House was one single, solitary peppercorn (I still remember going there and watching the dunking when I was in Primary 5), Cup Match and how it started out as an Emancipation celebration, how Bermuda was 30 years ahead of the US in abolishing slavery (albeit through the order of the UK) and the 24th of May parade, how it was originally a celebration of Queen Victoria's birthday and how it is now a celebration of Bermuda's culture. And everyone knows all about Hubert Smith's "Bermuda is Another World", codfish cakes on Good Friday, cassava pie on Christmas and artists like Graham Foster and Desmond Fountain. I am at a loss as to "famous" Bermudian poets, but I'm sure that if I thought long and hard enough or looked it up, I'd be able to think of one. However, I do agree with you that these things do need to be celebrated more in Bermuda - I remember more about the US Bill of Rights from a year of US History when I was 15 than of Bermuda's entire political system, which was only briefly touched on when I was 12.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 21.04.05 at 15:51]

Onion,

I fully agree with you. In university I boasted about being from Bermuda. Now living in the Bahamas I still proudly state that I am a Bermudian and I remind many Bahamians that the island of Eluthera was settled by the Elutheran Adventurers who were from Bermuda.

I am extremely proud to say that I am Bermudian but national pride in my opinion is about more than that.

That being said there is nothing truly Bermudian. Before leaving here to vacation in Bermuda over Easter a friend of mine asked me to bring her back a Bermuda cook book. When I gave her the book she asked what is a Bermuda dish. There was nothing I could tell her that was truly Bermudian.

The kites we call "Bermuda Kites" are made and flown in the exact same way here, hummers, rounies and all, in the Bahamas and have been for many generations

I truly experienced what national pride is during the Australian Olympic Games. The Bahamas female 4 x 100 relay team won gold. During the race there was complete silence and when the girls won the entire country celebrated. When the Golden Girls returned home they were treated like major celebrities.

It was even larger when Tonique Williams-Darling won the female 400 meters Olympic gold in Greece. During the race which was broadcast live at around 3:30pm, the entire country came to a stand-still.

Each athlete that medals in the Olympics and World Championships is awarded real property and cash by the country. Each gold medal winner also picks up a corporate sponsorship deal from local companies.

When you arrive at the Nassau International Airport there are nearly life sized pictures of the Olympic athletes before you.

Bermuda does not celebrate its athletes in that manner. I recall when Brian Wellman won the World Championship for triple jump there was no big celebration for his accomplishment.

With regard to Clarence Hill, maybe if he were treated with te respect and diginity for his accomplishment by his country he may not have had to slide in his life that he had. If you listen to any of his interviews he states he felt nothing from his country. He said he ws ashamed to be Bermudian because Bermuda and Bermudians did not appreciate what he had done. He is today stil the only Bermudian athlete to win an Olympic medal. And he shoudln't be in the Hall of Fame? He should have been the first inductee.

In Bermuda I have noticed very clearly that Bermudians refuse to give support to their own unless and until their own have first accomplished something. Unfortunately many Bermudians still show in their actions and reactions that foreign is better. Should we not support our own from the beginning? This in and of itself will encourage them to do better.

Katura Horton-Perinchief, during the Greece Olympic Games, bacame the first person of colour in the history of the Olympic Games to compete in her sport, diving. Very little was made of this, our media did not even pick up the story, I believe it was the Canadian media that picked it up and interviewed her.

And we claim that we have National Pride. National pride has nothing to do with financial wealth, in fact, national pride is more important to the unification of a country than financial wealth ever could be.

"National pride is to countries what self-respect is to individuals: a necessary condition for self-improvement," writes the philosopher Richard Rorty. A nation that does not evoke enough pride in its people will find it hard to tap their capacity for achievement and sacrifice.

Could this definition not provide an answer as to why the Bermuda Regiment would be unmanned if it were voluntary?

[Bill Cook on 21.04.05 at 16:16]

Olympics, Hmmmmmm
Did that born Bermudian bye Singleton not bring honor and attention to Bermuda by competing in the luge and now skeleton in de vinter games?
why did he not get a little more assistance as the publicity would not hurt BDA at Olympics at my last visit to the Olympic games museum in Lausanne to see the pair of BDA shorts he donated to them. Did we not win a gold medal in the Pan Am games for the Equestrian event beating an Olympic gold medal winner to do so and did we not also win world champ in sailing ?
maybe they fall into a different category of Bermudian. Selective national pride ?

[Onion on 21.04.05 at 16:16]

Yes, Guilden, I forgot to mention the Regiment. Why do Bda Regiment soldiers get more respect when they are overseas than when they are in Bermuda. A Bermudian soldier is welcomed free of charge in Jamaica into any club, private hotel grounds, etc, just by virtue of the fact that everyone loves a soldier. In Bermuda a soldier cannot even get into Blu Juice, even in his formal kit!! (not that he is missing anything in that place but you get my point).

I also agree that we place so much emphasis on our perceived wealth that THAT has become our culture. Whenever we compare ourselves to other nations the first thing we say is, "we are wealthier than they are so everything is cool." Both PLP and UBP when in power seem to think that as long as some $ is rolling in from int'l business everything else just falls into place. Education and cultural development and preservation take a major back-seat in my opinion.

[Onion on 21.04.05 at 16:34]

Bill, I did not mention a lot of black or white Bermudian sporting icons. But the fact that none of the white athletes you mention get as much recognition just tells us that a lack of nat'l pride goes across the board.

[Bill Cook on 21.04.05 at 16:42]

Onion,
my comment was a general observation,justified I believe.
An open question how can one have pride in being a Bermudian or any other nationality?

If I was born in Ireland (which I was) and according to a poll recently completed Ireland was rated no 1 in world as best place to live, beating out the USA ETC should I be proud of that esp as I contributed very little over past almost half century I was here.

I have always felt that one can only take pride in ones accomplishments, how one can take pride in something they had zero to do with seems silly really.

[Onion on 21.04.05 at 16:50]

Bill, I see your point. However, when some Bermudians get arrested in London for drug possession I feel embarrassed, notwithstanding the fact i had nothing to do with their crime.

So is it not natural for a Bermudian to feel pride when a Bermudian does something good? It is not that I am taking credit for what they have done, but rather I am proud to see them put Bermuda on the map in a positive way.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 21.04.05 at 16:57]

Bill,

I aree with you I heard many people comment that Singleton is just wasting his time in trying to compete. If you don't try you can't succeed. Peter Bromby has performed extremely well at the international level as well.

There are also people like Hon. RAndy Horton and Sam "The Cat" Nusum who both played alongside Pele and Franz Beckenbauer for the New York Cosmos.

Bermudians spent a great deal of time at Mid Ocean club for the Merrill Lynch Shoot-Out but how many ever spent time watching Sen. Kim Swan play the Bermuda Open. Kim is still the only Bermudian to play, not just full-time but anytime, on any of the major tours. He played the European PGA Tour.

Yet we do not hail these persons as local heros, which is all a part of national pride.

If you want to look at it from a business perspective should we as a people not desire to see Bermudians, in Bermuda, at the top levels of the organisations for which they work? We as a people seem more than willing to continue to allow foreigners to fill those roles rather than our own. This is not intended to take anything away from the foreign expertise nor is it anti-expat, but after all the years that Bermuda has been in the International Company game surely there should be more Bermudians in very senior capacities. Is this not also from a lack of pride? Do we not try to hold each other back? We seem never to complain when an expat gets a promotion yet when our fellow Bermudian who began his career at the same time we did gets a promotion before us rather than congratulate him we have a problem with it.

Surely, expertise is gained over time and there are many Bermudians who have been in the industry longer than many expats who hold very senior positions. Let's face it the insurance industry is not all that complicated. It is more about your global contacts than raw talent. We have Bermudians working for international companies, are they not forming global relationships through their jobs?

[Bill Cook on 21.04.05 at 17:07]

Onion,
I understand your feelings on this but realistically you may feel embarrassed but no shame as you were not involved.
I had to deal with this with the tragic circumstances in Ireland, but being non religious it helped a bit.

Of course if you are part of a winning team as say I competing with the BDA team in the Rosebowl tournament you feel elated when you win against the odds BDA being so little as we did often.

It all depends on how you interpret the meaning of PRIDE.

I have always despised the "I am the greatest attitude" cognizant that pride comes before a fall and modesty in a measured way is a virtue.

[Homunculus on 21.04.05 at 17:12]

This is relatively a young country, significantly made up of people from other countries. That goes a far ways to explain the wealth based identity we have. The country is focused on making more money than it can spend. It was settled for economic reasons, and it has now been re-settled for economic reasons. For this reason it is no surprise that so little else is taken seriously.

This is also a very divided society, and you will be hard-pressed to come up with a list of celebrated dishes, national heros or events that are celebrated across the board. The big things that Blacks would propably name are things that whites actually fought against: End of slavery, EF Gordon, Anthony Monkman (both expats btw), the right to vote, end of segregation, founding of Berkeley. Cynically, I don't expect many whites to take these things as something to celebrate - not yet, and unfortunately, but it would be very cool if this was something that we could acknowledge and celebrate.

I have no clue who whites as a group would name, and I'd love to hear who we regard as Bermuda's icons - The only ones who might spring to my mind are famous for being money barons, or there is much debate about their real intentions (Sir Henry Tucker for eg.). I can't think of any others other than recent sports heroes like Perter Bromby, Patrick Singleton and Peta Lewin. I know that some blacks got very angry over the Johnny Barnes monument, having seen it as being a huge slap in the face of those blacks that actually are deserving of a statue on a major street.

I think all of us might identify with Sir George Somers to some degree, but I doubt we'd consider him an icon or national hero. Until we have things that we all actually want to celebrate, then celebrating ourselves will always be placed on the back-burner. It's not as bad as being ashamed of being Bermudian, but it's pretty shameful that it's so hard to define what makes us special (other than our wealth).

Let's try to come up with a list!

[ace on 21.04.05 at 17:16]

This is relatively a young country, significantly made up of people from other countries.

eh?

We are much older than the US and they are the country with the "most" pride according to some.

[big bad wolf on 21.04.05 at 17:27]

The List---What Makes Bermudians special
1 Playful, love to party and dance.
2 Our GreatSporting clubs.
3 Our Beautiful island
4 Our Beautiful women
5 Our kites and Bermuda rig dinghies
6 Our longtails and cahows
7 Our Parish colours
8 Outerbridges Hot sauce and Goslings rum & Horton's rum cakes.
9 Our drinking ability.
10 Our love of travel and adventure
11 Our families
12 Our gombeys
13 Our Bermuda Shorts.
14 Our Bermudian accents
15 Our love of the sea and land
16 Our marching brass bands
17 Nonsuch island
18 Our crystal caves
19 our gifted artists and craftsmen and women
20 Our pink beaches and my favourite in particuliar Horseshoe Bay
21 All our stories and rich history plus Cup Match.
I Love Bermuda and love being Bermudian.
Yeah Freeze that and quote me !!! da ^..^

[big bad wolf on 21.04.05 at 17:31]

Da ^..^ would like you to add to this list as there are so many other things that make Bermudians special...Like nick names mine is Wolfie !!! ^..^ add to de list!

[Two Cents on 21.04.05 at 17:34]

Film fan,

Perhaps I came from the wrong angle, I was refering to Boyz in the Hood, the film by John Singleton ?? Now don't get all fuzzy and talk about the symbolism and all that artsy stuff. I was referring to the;
1. Drive by shooting (x2)
2. Violence against each other (and women)
3. Drug use & drinking
4. Sports being the "only way out".

This was one of my fav films (I watch it about every 9 months). As for Do the Right Thing, I was referring mostly to dress and the attitude more than any true meaning from the film.

[Bill Cook on 21.04.05 at 17:42]

Guilden,

With Singleton it was the novelty of his event that got BDA publicity never capitalised on,and both he and Peter Bromby came from humble backgrounds and so did miss Tumbridge who had her first job after school working for me, but her love was horses, and no one even begins to comprehend the years and years she spent in England working in stables to pay her way and go on to beat the Olympic gpold medal winner to take gold in Pan Am games.Well done Mary Jane.

Golf ? yes I know Kim well great guy and I have never played St George's course since he left.
FYI my old pal Butch Lindo competed in the British open.

Ever heard of Champagne Tony Lema ?

Check him out and get back to us.

However I agree we live on this app 20 square miles and often dont know as much as we should about each other.

A frequent social commentator on a similar thread Rolf Commissiong did not know that we won the world champs for Sunfish sailing an immensely popular sport.On a radio talk show.

I am not and never was involved in the Insurance industry other than almost marrying the secretary of the man who founded the RE insurance industry here Fred Reiss.

Common sense and the application of logic in business would lead me to believe that that the person who could do the job best help my profitability and create harmony in the work place would be foremost in my placement.

I try never to make blanket statements on any subject or any person for that matter preferring to deal with individual cases and get full details before making judgemental opinions.

I try to observe statistical reality as criteria as I find other things like prejudice and bias enter and clouds the issue.

[The Limey on 21.04.05 at 17:44]

Homunculus

End of slavery... the right to vote, end of segregation... Cynically, I don't expect many whites to take these things as something to celebrate

Are you serious?

I know that some blacks got very angry over the Johnny Barnes monument, having seen it as being a huge slap in the face of those blacks that actually are deserving of a statue on a major street

I didn't know that, but I'm surprised to hear it. Why can't statues of other blacks be erected just because Johnny got one? Seems to me that it would have been more charitable of those blacks to congratulate Johnny rather than get bitter about it. But I don't know all the facts so maybe there was a good reason for their anger.

Guilden,

there are many Bermudians who have been in the industry longer than many expats who hold very senior positions

The seniority of your position should not be dictated by the time you have served, but by your management ability and your desire to hold that post. Bermudians can of course have both, but there may be perfectly valid reasons why more expats than Bermudians hold senior positions, e.g. I think Bermudians are generally less driven than expats (and in my book, that's a good thing BTW).

[baileys bay on 21.04.05 at 17:50]

Like most Bermudians I really care about Bermuda but I don't have the same pride of country that I perceive in the US. There is very little of a symbolic nature that I can grasp onto. The US has its constitution, bill of rights, war of independence, stars and stripes and national anthem. All of these symbols instill a sense of pride in their country and what it has accomplished. This is reinforced quite strongly at school where much of US history is presented with "rose colored glasses".

We have a constitution but if you ever read it you will definitely fall asleep. It is not an inspiring document. We have a flag but a quarter of it represents another country. Our national anthem is an ode to the Queen of another country. Yes I know that she is supposed to be our queen but quite honestly I can't get too excited about her or any of her dysfunctional family. "Hail to Bermuda" is, I guess, our national song but again it is not very inspiring.

Up until the end of the 2nd World War Bermuda very much saw itself as part of the British family. I don't think that we see ourselves that way any more. My grandparents were very British-centric. My parents were less so but they would still make a point of listening and making me listen to the Queen's address at Christmas. Then everyone would go on about what a nice speech it was. My children are fortunate since they never had to suffer through the Queen's address.

On the education front most of my teachers were from England and tended to look down their noses at things Bermudian. So no pride of country was instilled through that way. In fact it was probably the reverse.

Just a few thoughts on why we may not be as patriotic as other countries.

[The Limey on 21.04.05 at 17:52]

On the subject of national pride in the Philippines (emphasis mine):

"ON LILIBETH Nacion's radio program the other morning, there was a spirited discussion on whether Filipinos are still proud of their country. The callers were divided. Many felt that national pride is something that should not fade no matter what Filipinos do to their country or to themselves. Others admitted it has indeed become harder to be proud of the country and to respond with self-assurance when asked abroad if they are Filipinos. They think the country has sunk too low in the eyes of the world for it to be a source of self-esteem... One hundred six years after its declaration of independence, the Filipino nation grapples with demoralization."

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 21.04.05 at 18:00]

Wolf,

I do not associate what makes Bermuda a beautiful country with national pride. There are many places around the world that have antural beauty, however, a country is nothing without its people because peopel make it a country. The fact remains that Bermudians, while they love their country do not truly show national pride.

As I used earlier, "A nation that does not evoke enough pride in its people will find it hard to tap their capacity for achievement and sacrifice."

How many Bermudians would truly sacrifice for the sake of their country? Again from what I said earlier, if the Bermuda Regiment were voluntary it would be effectively unmanned.

Many of our local musicians have produced albums and I think you will find that many of our local artists have more success outside Bermuda then they do inside. As they are Bermudian you would think that they could rely on their own people to support them and make certain they can succeed prior to international success.

Does this not evidence a lack of national pride?

Please correct me if I am wrong but was there not a larger crowd at the National Stadium during the Santos tour, which were friendly matches, than there was in attendence when Bermuda hosted El Salvador during the World Cup campaign? Were the fans there to see our boys or were they there to see Santos?

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 21.04.05 at 18:17]

Limey,

I do not disagree with you but why would you assume, if that is what you are doing, that more Bermudians do not have managerial capabilities? What brings you to that conclusion?

You say Bermudians are generaly less driven. I disagree. I recall my days in the international insurance industry in ermuda and I remember someone saying to me that my advancement would be limited because I did not work very often after 5:00pm. my response was, "I have never been behind in what I had to do, in fact, I am generally ahead of schedule and there is documented evidence from others, including clients as to the thoroughness and high quality of my presentations. The client is always satisfied with my performance and there are letters on file to prove it. Am I suposed to stay after 5:00pm just for the sake of staying after 5:00pm?"

I ask you, how does that make me any less driven than anyone else? Time in the office does nothing without on time quality production. I do not buy into the idea that one must put in long hours to show one is driven. I agree that working late to meet a deadline may be appropriate from time to time and that's fine. However, if one puts in long hours on a regular basis he either has no life or is a bad time manager.

[Homunculus on 21.04.05 at 18:47]

Ace,

The US has all sorts of reasons for its excessive patriotism. Bermuda does not have the number nor measure of events that have given America its identity.

Limey

Yes I'm serious. My grandfather vividly remembers the labour movement and goes on and on about how the Union destroyed tourism. I have no idea how he came up with that idea, but it's one of those things that I simply won't discuss with him. He goes nuts. And don't get him started on E.F. Gordon or anything related to black rights. He didn't want it then, and I often wonder how far he might have come. The man is a relic, but he's still alive, and I don't see him thinking fondly of the civil rights movement due to the riots. He won't be amongst those celebrating, and I don't think that he's the only one.

My father flipped out when my sister began dated a black guy in the 90's! He was a nice guy, as far as I remember, but he just wasn't nice enough. So for even his generation I have doubts about the acceptance of blacks. We may get there one day, but right now my parents are buckling up to leave these shores if we go independent. That's how far apart THEY are.

As for my friends, I could see a few of them celebrating a special Civil Rights Day, but most really don't care. You should have heard some of the things they were saying when the boundaries were made more even! I can understand the desire for proportional representation, but most just wanted to leave the voting system the way it was.

With Johnnny I think the problem was that there are several more people who are deserving of national recognition, so for a predominantly white group to spend $10k on a guy who would be considered a nutter in any other country, well, it was seen as insulting. If blacks really want a statue to celebrate their own heroes, there is nothing stoping them. But I appreciate their anger at the Johnny Barnes statue, because he fits the stereotype of the "non-threatening negro". When you think about the characteristics of people who would normally be given such an honour, he just doesn't meet the criteria. Courage, valour, intelligence, virtue - Barnes has done nothing monumental. Even I feel like a laughing stock when I tell my visiting friends who he is. If it wasn't for the statue, he won't be missed. He changed nothing about this country.

How many people here would really support an E.F. Gordon or Henry Tucker statue up on Nellie's Walk or down by the Flag Pole? Let's try to name some Bermudians who we would all really celebrate. Let's start a real list of things to be proud of and see what we come up with.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 21.04.05 at 18:59]

Bill,

I don't know if you realised it or not but I was agreeing with what you said.

[The Limey on 21.04.05 at 20:02]

Guilden

I absolutely agree with all you say about working hours. But that's not the mindset in many UK and US companies. You ask if you're supposed to stay after 5pm just for the sake of it, even if you've finished your work. In many many UK and US companies (and at least one exempt company that I could name here) the answer is yes. It's ridiculous, but some companies look at it as a demonstration of commitment. Often those who leave on time, even if they have finished their work, are seen as slackers and looked on dimly when promotions are being considered. That's why I say Bermudians are less driven than many expats - and why I think it's a good thing. Nonetheless, in the eyes of the big bosses who are used to working in that kind of environment, it's not necessarily an asset. I don't know that that's the reason that there are fewer Bermudians in senior positions, but it could be.

[big bad wolf on 21.04.05 at 21:29]

I have all sorts of pride in Bermuda and many of my fellow Bermudians. Just for the record I'm very proud of the Bermuda National football team strip that I designed. I love Bermuda so much I wrote it up and down the sleeves of the shirt too! The rest of you can go search for your pride if you lost it...but I've always felt a part of Bermuda and its people....The beaches and water are in me as much as my blood. ^..^

[xc on 21.04.05 at 22:22]

Guilden,

It's a little off-topic (sorry Limey) but I really must take issue with your earlier post. My experience with an international company in Bermuda is that the firm takes enormous care in identifying Bermudians with talent and propels them into senior roles as early as possible. It's a simple fact that given a Bermudian and an expat of equal talents and work ethic the company would choose the Bermudian every time. Why invite the extra expense and immigration headaches when a Bermudian is available to do the job equally well? Time served on the job might buy you seniority in a government agency but our shareholders demand higher standards than that.

As for your belief that success in the insurance industry is just a matter of making a bunch of key contacts, I'm rather insulted. How would you feel if I dismissed your profession as simplistic without walking a day in your shoes? The insurance industry has come a long way in the last decade and Bermuda has lead the charge in adopting highly sophisticated risk evaluation techniques. It's a highly competitive marketplace and any underwriter that fails to demonstrate a good grasp of latest technical underwriting advances will either be left behind by the brokers or victimised by them (i.e. only shown bad business at inadequate rates).

I appreciate that you have insurance experience but it clearly doesn't relate to Bermuda's reinsurance companies in the 21st century.

Excuse the tone of my post but I feel the usual high quality of your postings took a nasty dive there.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 21.04.05 at 23:43]

XC,

Your points are well taken but I think you missed the point of my post. When I talk about having international contacts I am not in any way, shape or form saying that should be the basis of anyone's success. However, it has been said on many occasions in the past with regard to very senior positions in the industry that Bermudians do not have the level of international relationships that many of the expats in those positions have. That is where that remark came from. This is probably more true from the broker perspective than from underwriting because as a broker your level of contacts can determine the amount of business you can secure. That's me constantly wearing my brokers hat. I think you will agree that the broking side of the business is very heavily relationship driven, relationships with clients and with underwriters.

While I somewhat agree with your point about many companies preferring a Bermudian over an expat due to added cost, I was actually referring the very senior levels in the organisation.

I also agree with your comment about time served but I thought it was a given that I was not simply referring to just time on the job, I was referring to someone who had spent time and had taken full advantage of opportunites presented to learn and had the desire to advance. I think there are a number of Bermudians who could fill very senior positions that are currently held by expats.

By the way you sound as if you are an underwriter, therefore, we are in the same industry, as I alluded to earlier, I am a broker and because of my time spent in the Bermuda market there are alternatives I can present to clients here that other brokers are unable to think of and further, the contacts that I made while in the Bermuda market have helped me to get business placed that other brokers here may have to turn away for lack of a market. It has also helped me with some other projects I currently have in the pipeline.

It you felt insulted by my remarks I humbly apologise to you as it was not my intention to do such a thing. I like to see my fellow Bermudians do well and I want them to do well, rightly or wrongly I feel that many should be further ahead and not due to any fault of their own.

[Homunculus on 22.04.05 at 07:31]

How many people here would really support an E.F. Gordon or Henry Tucker statue up on Nellie's Walk or down by the Flag Pole? Or maybe a civil rights day, or some kind of event to mark social change in Bermuda? Any challenges or support to the names above? Does anyone else have any names to add?

[Bill Cook on 22.04.05 at 09:37]

When Hubert Smith passed I proposed a statue to be erected at Albouys Point, to greet the cruise ships coming in.

I think everyone liked Hubert and his contribution to a more serene Bermudian way of life.

As always lots of enthusiasm initially then silence.

Its still not too late, and it could be a tribute not only to Hubert but to all the oldtime musical entertainers.

[Arudawakening on 22.04.05 at 12:29]

There have been two events this week that I feel are uniquely Bermudian and part of our national heritage - the Ag Show (I know, I know, the EXHIBITION) and the Peppercorn Ceremony. However, neither our Premier, nor the Deputy Premier was able to attend either of the ceremonies for these events.

Does anyone know where they are?

[Two Cents on 22.04.05 at 14:20]

Judging by the papers and news reports, it it safe to say that our Premier is at the RIMS conference in Philadelphia. He's a regular Phileas Fogg these days, between him and Dr. "Air Miles" Brown it is surprising that either of them are ever here. Did you notice the Mr. Scott is travelling alot more with his wife; what the hell the tax payers are footing the bill so why not make it a vacation.

[Turtle on 22.04.05 at 14:57]

Limey,

Your post touches on something that has interested me for years, so excuse the length of this posting – it’s been bottled up for a long time. Is there anything that could be described as Bermudian culture? Do we have anything that would unite us in a national identity if we went independent? As a number of people have pointed out that we Bermudians have a natural love for Bermuda. It is our home, and it is difficult to express in words the nature of that sort of affection. It is not necessarily logical. But that is not the same as a national identity.

I think a national identity has its roots in two things: the natural environment, and our history.

Environment: A very small, isolated, semi-tropical, often stormy mid-Atlantic island with no indigenous people and limited natural resources.

History: Economically, a lack of resources has forced Bermudians to live by their wits and take advantage of opportunities created by events and needs in the wider Atlantic world. This is even more so today. Socially, we are marked by a heritage of racial division with its roots in slavery and segregation; by our colonial status which promoted the concept of England as the only legitimate source of power and culture; by our proximity to North America and the Caribbean. We are also marked by the heavily biracial nature of our population and by the patterns of immigration (forced (slave) or otherwise) encouraged or discouraged by the government of the day and related to the nature of Bermuda’s economy.

Like it or not, that is our heritage! We are an economically opportunistic, racially divided, and until recently, colonial society. We do not have the cultural richness that Onion was describing with respect to the islands further south because our environment and history have not fostered that sort of development. . . so far! (more on that later)

Some people have mentioned obvious manifestations of our heritage: Bermuda architecture, codfish and potato breakfast, cassava pie, Johnny bread, peas and rice, gombey dancing, extended family camping, and Cup Match. Some of these are vestiges of colonialism like the 24th of May and the Queen’s Birthday holidays. Some were manufactured for tourism purposes, like the peppercorn ceremony; or in an effort to force the development of a heritage, such as the Bermuda Day Parade. Some are shared with other islands like kite flying. Some parts of our shared heritage have survived on both sides of the racial divide, like sailboat racing; some have not, like using the unique Bermuda dinghy in those races.

The past is the past and I think we have to accept it for what it is, and in accepting it, I think in a strange way it will unite us. In the meantime: national identity is not static!!!! We are lucky to live at a time in Bermuda’s history when we can see Bermuda culture blossoming in the form of dance, poetry, visual arts, culinary arts. We have the incredible sculpture by Bill Ming for the lost at sea memorial. We have open mike poetry readings, we have increasing numbers of books by Bermudians. I think we are on the verge of a cultural explosion; an explosion which will force us to look at the past as artists turn to it for inspiration and exploration of our identity.

I don’t think Independence is a prerequisite for this. I think that this is a prerequisite for a successful, unified, independent Bermuda. And we are just at the beginning!

In my view Government needs to encourage this artistic (and academic) exploration of our past and our identity as part of its goal to create a strong and unified Bermuda. It needs to bring the debate into the open, the way this forum has done.

I have gone on long enough!! It’s hard to stop – I am passionately Bermudian.

[shipstones on 22.04.05 at 19:24]

Turtle,
I think that was the best post I have ever read. Thank you!

[shipstones on 22.04.05 at 19:49]

Guilden,
The top brokers Marsh and Aon are run by Bermudians, Joe Rego and Mike Fisher. Oliver Heyliger runs Willis!!!! All Bermudians.
And when you say there are Bermudians left behind with equal capabilities to expats, please quote specific cases, these can be addressed and rectified.

[shipstones on 22.04.05 at 19:50]

Trevor Woolridge and his wife were there also!

[Combat Banker on 22.04.05 at 20:08]

Don't forget Phil Butterfield at Bank Of Bermuda either. It is only part of the second largest Bank on the planet now!

[big bad wolf on 22.04.05 at 20:39]

Who cares if a disgraced AME Minister was at the event...Maybe he said a prayer for the Bermuda Delegation. God knows they need one...^..^

[shipstones on 22.04.05 at 21:13]

Just the same as if I saw you there and introduced to the assembled if you werew there on a freebee with no interest at all in the insurance industry!!

[Homunculus on 22.04.05 at 22:04]

Great post, Turtle. A country is first and foremost the experience and development of its people - at least that's how I measure up national identity in any other country. I think it's really sad and pathetic that we have such a hard time identifying Bermudians who we can identify and collectively celebrate as national icons/heroes. I really wonder how many Bermudians who claim to really love their country and profess no lack of national identiy are prepared to stay here through thick and thin. My gut feeling is that if things did get bad, a lot of people (not just expats) would jump ship in the blink of an eye and leave "the rest of us" to figure it out. We'll come together when we are prepared to accept our past for what it is, but I think a few older generations need to go the way of the Dodo before that's going to happen.

[Turtle on 22.04.05 at 23:30]

Shipstones, I'm glad you enjoyed my post. Isn't is wonderful to have things like this brought up and discussed? I have longed for this sort of discussion for years!

Homunculus -

I'm afraid you are right – some Bermudians will never be able to accommodate the valid position of the ‘other side’, and will insist on defining Bermuda according to their experience only. They will go to their graves arguing about it.

I have been wracking my brain to come up with answers to some of the questions you have posed. Who would white Bermudians name as their heroes? Is there such a thing? As you say, many would mention Sir Henry Tucker. At least he can be associated with modern Bermuda, rather than with aspects of the past which many would rather not look at too closely.

In some ways I think we are too close to our recent past to come to a national consensus on the subject. Many white Bermudians are not comfortable with facing the fact that their forefathers were the opponents in the struggles for universal suffrage, workers' rights and desegregation.

We might find it easier to come together in erecting a statue to commemorate an event. I think the most important national event would be the emancipation of slavery on 1st August 1834. Barbados has huge statue of a slave (known as Bussa) breaking his chains in the centre of one of the main roundabouts. I don't know how we as Bermudians would portray this momentous occasion - I do know that at the moment my vote for sculptor would go to Bill Ming, hands down! The key thing is that the statue would have to be in a prime location - not off to one side somewhere, but dominating a significant intersection or similar. Let's get rid of the Desmond Fountain sculptures in City Hall fountain and put it there! The grounds of the Cabinet Office would be another good spot, but it would be a shame to detract from the war memorial, which needs its own quiet space.

Anyway, let me stop here and see what others have to say.

[big bad wolf on 22.04.05 at 23:38]

WE already do you twit its called CUP MATCH...If you want a statue get off your ass and commision one...Brother ^..^

[Turtle on 22.04.05 at 23:49]

Cool your toes Wolfie!

I am well aware of the origins of Cup Match! Don't be a twit yourself!

Homunculus was talking about the possibility of a statue to a national hero. If you can think of a better idea for a statue say so!

Your Friend in the West End!

[big bad wolf on 23.04.05 at 00:19]

Ok now that you have my attention...don't turn turtle on your idea of a statue....ACT On it! and it will be built. Honour ALL our past...If its to Freedom from slavery ..lets design and get it built!!! Love To see a heroic statue to the Gombies Twice the size of life scale!! ^..^ I'm your friend too. ^..^

[Onion on 23.04.05 at 00:25]

Good posts Turtle and Humunculus,

I don't think there was ever any dispute that we have culture. I just don't believe it is celebrated and I believe alot of that is due to a colonial self-hate.

I'll give you an example. in an exempt co where I used to work I was discussing Bermuda culture with two Bermudians and and expat. When I mentioned that the gombeys were a part of our culture the expat had no problem with that. Ironically the two Bermudian girls were like,

"Oh my gosh, no way. Like, like how can you say that? That is like soooo not our culture. Get-outta here. That's west Indian culture."

Yes, they were Bermudian.

Even after I explained to them that Bermuda's colonial history was only 400 years old and that all our culture is a blend of other cultures (as is the case with USA, Canada, Jamaica, Brazil etc etc.) they adamantly refused to accept gombeys as part of our culture.

It was almost as if they were ashamed of anything too "ethnic" being considered Bermudian. They were particularly ashamed in front of the expat.

Yet, when speaking about Bermuda to foreigner they would readily associate with Bermuda culture all the restaurants like Little Venice, Tuscany, Frescoes, or La trott. Or they'd talk about international business.

I find a lot of Bermudians are like this. In fact you can see this attitude portrayed in our tourism campaigns with both UBP and PLP.

We always make sure we don't seem too ethnic. We think that is sooooo sophisticated. We think we are appealing to the rich. That's a myth. When wealthy tourists go to Hawaii they want to go to a show and see those half naked people dancing with grass skirts. They want to have fun.

In Bermuda they are bored stiff. Look at our tourist ads. Some James Dean wannabe look-alike riding around on a 1960s vespa scooter. A photo of some caviar in a plate. Lawyers in their wig and gown standing on a dock. "Woooo, honey, lets pack our bags and go to Bermuda right now!!"

It represents the way too many of us think we need to portray our culture. Conservative and anal.

[Turtle on 23.04.05 at 00:48]

Onion that is so sad. I find it so troubling that it is hard to think of a response.

Wolf, I am just a turtle - need to keep my head low in case I get run over by a motorboat. I must leave the public campaigns for those with teeth who are more suited to them.

Good night. I am headed for my seagrass bed.

[Clydesdale on 23.04.05 at 07:55]

When travelling and someone asks where you are from, how many of you say:
"Oh I am from the British Dependant Territory of Bermuda!"

None as far as I know. We all say Bermuda!!! proudly. Then, of course, we get asked about the triangle. :)

Hey Onion, what sort of cultural things should we be promoting to tourism? Scooters, beaches, golf and bermuda shorts aside!

Turtle,
"Many white Bermudians are not comfortable with facing the fact that their forefathers were the opponents in the struggles for universal suffrage, workers' rights and desegregation."

Are you saying ALL, MANY,SOME?

[Bill Cook on 23.04.05 at 08:14]

Onion,
I noted that in trying to discover what constitutes Bermudian culture you never mentioned that the original settlers were in fact English, would that then indicate that they as English or British have some input as to a cultural aspect that would reflect that?

[Homunculus on 23.04.05 at 09:57]

Cup Match long lost its significance as a memorial to the end of slavery. We'd be fooling ourselves to suggest otherwise. Wasn't there some friction when people said that we should official rename Cup Match "Emancipation Day?" I this was around the time that they started the Emancipation Day "ceremony" in St. Georges.

"In some ways I think we are too close to our recent past to come to a national consensus on the subject. Many white Bermudians are not comfortable with facing the fact that their forefathers were the opponents in the struggles for universal suffrage, workers' rights and desegregation."

Whoa - excellent point!

"Even after I explained to them that Bermuda's colonial history was only 400 years old and that all our culture is a blend of other cultures (as is the case with USA, Canada, Jamaica, Brazil etc etc.) they adamantly refused to accept gombeys as part of our culture."

That's awfully sad.

You know what would be really cool? A national Gombey troupe made up of multiple races. Bring the annual Gombey performance from Dockyard down to Front Street and have a big jam. That could be a good start towards embracing each other and rejuvenating a very important part of our culture.

[Bill Cook on 23.04.05 at 10:17]

Hi Ho,
Cool idea that,
Maybe our political parties could start the ball rolling and alternative yrs at opening of parliament by donning Gombey outfits surely no more strange than the top hats feathered plumes etc. worn at present, even the Gov may get into the act, is it open to both men and women ?
Hard to visualise Grant outfitted but hey he might surprise you !!

[Bill Cook on 23.04.05 at 10:25]

Thought I would look up meaning of culture as frankly I was not too sure.
The Oxford dictionary says "relating to the cultivation of the mind or manners, esp thru artistic or intellectual activity"
Cultivate "nurture a persons friendship"
maybe we are on to someting here

[Onion on 23.04.05 at 10:52]

Bill, of course our culture is a deriavtion of aspects of British culture. My letter was not meant to be exhaustive.

[Turtle on 23.04.05 at 13:12]

Thanks for the definition of culture Bill - you certainly are onto something!

As far as the all-inclusive gombey troupe is concerned, I'm not so sure it's a good idea.

First, I should say that as a white Bermudian I definitely regard the gombeys as part of my culture - but as a spectator. One of my earliest memories is of the gombeys, and I have heard my grandparents tell stories about seeing them when they were children too (late 1800s).

However, for me, participation in a gombey troupe is an expression of black Bermudian culture, with its roots in slavery, Africa etc etc. The sudden inclusion of whites would be awfully close to cultural appropriation in my view. Of course if that inclusion were to happen gradually that would be a different matter, and would represent natural cultural evolution.

[Turtle on 23.04.05 at 13:37]

Clyde - I used the word 'many'. I have no idea how many, I am drawing on my own experience in talking to other white Bermudians. I have found that 'many' white Bermudians I have come into contact with want to reject any discussion of those aspects of the past. In my view they find it way too uncomfortable.

What's your experience?

[The other Susan on 23.04.05 at 14:02]

Bill and Turtle, gombeys, dinghy racing, kite making, codfish and potatoes are all expressions of Bermuda's everyday culture - also known as folklife' Traditions passed down informally over time within a group. The tradition was not learned by formal education or from popular culture through magazines, books, or the media. Folklife includes folklore, folk art, beliefs and rituals, crafts, music, and occupations. The group may be a family, neighborhood, ethnic occupational, or religious group, or a region.

You're quite right Turtle, about not appropriating the gombey tradition. I have had the honour of learning about this tradition from costume makers, drummers and captains and I doubt any of them would appreciate someone who wasn't raised in the family tradition donning a costume and taking part.

If you are interested in talking to people who are some of the 'tradition bearers' of Bermuda's folklife, go to Verdmont on Sunday May 1st.

[shipstones on 23.04.05 at 14:26]

Can somebody tell me why salted codfish became so popular? Local fish was so abundant and presumably cheap. Why would imported salted fish be so popular, or was codfish caught locally, or was it any old salted fish that used to be used?

[Weeee on 23.04.05 at 14:36]

We also created the Bermuda rig. Almost every boat with a 3 sided sail boils down to what us Bermudians created. It's not recognized enough. With the sloop coming it will be nice to have something to show for the work of some of our ancestors

[Turtle on 23.04.05 at 14:37]

Ships - I think the importing of salt cod has something to do with Bermuda trading with Newfoundland. Azorean immigrants to Bermuda also brought a tradition of salt cod use with them. I'd like to know more about this too.

[Bay Grape on 23.04.05 at 14:41]

Good posts, Turtle and Homunculus. I like the idea of recognizing heroes, as mentioned, but I think Emancipation should take precedence. When we were growing up, I don't ever remember learning about Emancipation at school. Nor did I know who Dr. E.F. Gordon was. There is such an ongoing need for education and recognizing the incredible positive qualities in so many of all our forefathers and foremothers. I agree that City Hall would be a significant location for a sculptural piece of art about freedom. That whole front oval could be about freedom, including figures of those who pushed for equality in all ways. (Yes, please take the Desmond fountain statues out of there). I hate to say it, but I never "got" the Johnny Barnes statue thing. I'm sure he personally cheers up a number of people in the morning, but my first thought when I saw the statue was "let's get serious." It might be a nice "add-on," but when there is no monument to the fall of slavery, no visual recognition of the extraordinary moral leadership of a few towards equality, the Johnny Barnes statue looked like a "pet person" to me.

[Turtle on 23.04.05 at 14:43]

Other Susan - Thanks for the information on folklife and for the heads-up about the thing at Verdmont on 1st May - unfortunately I am going to be away that weekend. Darn.

On the other hand I noticed that Government is advertising for someone to document Bermuda's oral history and folklife. This looks like a postive way to build on the work of groups like Mosaic and efforts like the Smithsonian thing a few years back.

[Bill Cook on 23.04.05 at 19:27]

To all who enjoy a look back at Bermudian folklore and interesting anecdotal stuff, I recommend reading Scott Stallard's BERMUDA 1899, Scott is way too modest and he writes well about Bermuda as well as about his own remarkable accomplishments in the far corners of the world, so much so he has been given membership in the Explorers Club I think David Saul also.
Some of the old time Bermudian cures and recipes are quite fascinating.
Scotts photographic books of Bermuda are wonderful I have all of them.
Check out these well produced treasures.

[The Limey on 23.04.05 at 21:50]

According to Friday's Royal Gazette, the Department of Education is considering renaming Clearwater Middle, Dellwood Middle and Spice Valley Middle Schools to "reflect the names of past champions and heroes in the community". Given the talk here about the need to do more to recognise Bermuda's heroes, do you think this is a good idea?

[Andrew on 23.04.05 at 23:06]

Only if it will mean that standards will increase, teachers will be hired and more than 36% of our students will graduate!

Otherwise, no.

[Bill Cook on 24.04.05 at 08:23]

Limey,
You would need to fine tune the definition of champion and hero,with a relevance to education,one could be an uneducated thug yet possibly put the shot well enough to win a gold medal in the Olympics, not neccessarily someone a scholar would look up to.
It would make more sense to have schools named after educators who contributed much and were held in high esteem.
Remember too that given Bermudas troubled bi racial past that care would need to be exercised to be sensitive and diplomatic, which recently does not always happen.

[Lickinalong on 24.04.05 at 10:15]

It is amazing how little we know about the origins of some of our cultural icons like codfish. My understanding is that salted cod was developed in Newfoundland in the 1500s. Salted cod provided one of the few forms of preserved food that could be used on long voyages and was a valuable commodity. From its early days Bermuda had close ties with Newfoundland. At one time Bermuda and Newfoundland shared the same Bishop of the Anglican Church. Bermudians set up a trade with the Newfies, producing salt at the salt ponds in Turks and Caicos and delivering it to Newfoundland for the salted cod. I have a theory that the Bermuda boats also delivered black rum since Newfoundland's national drink is a very strong dark rum called Screech which resembles our black rum.

My wife's great grandfather was a seafaring merchant who used to trade with the Newfies. Each spring he would travel to Newfoundland and cut ice from the ice fields. It would be wrapped in straw as insulation and he would then sail as fast as he could to Bermuda and then sell the ice. Sounds improbable but its true.

[The other Susan on 24.04.05 at 18:00]

We also got into trouble with Newfoundlanders for fishing for cod in their waters.

[Homunculus on 24.04.05 at 18:00]

I don't see how renaming schools could be a negative thing, so I see no harm in it. Naming the schools after educators or people who played major roles in society could at least give people something to think about. It could just be a nice reminder that there were those before us who fought long and hard for us to have the freedom, security and wealth we now take for granted.

[Shark on 24.04.05 at 19:25]

as long as there not named after politicions ;)

[Turtle on 24.04.05 at 21:06]

This isn't a new thing - we already have Victor Scott School and Dame Marjorie Bean Hope Academy - and we used to have Robert Crawford School.

I suspect the Government is about to break new ground and name the schools after more controversial (read more political) figures. But who knows? Perhaps they'll choose historical figures - one of the ferries is named after Venturilla.

It's a start. Most of the streets in Hamilton are named after royal figures or governors. It's time we caught up with ourselves and honoured other parts of our heritage too.

[Onion on 24.04.05 at 23:47]

Turtle, I do not think whites getting involved in a gombey troupe is cultural appropriation.

Have you not watched the tens of thoudands of white Brazilians or Trinidadians getting involved in Carnival every year in their respective countries? I'm not talking about as spectators either.

[Turtle on 25.04.05 at 00:33]

Good point Onion, but I believe that Carnival, which you referred to, has its roots in Roman Catholicism, which is not based on race to begin with. It marks the last day before the beginning of Lent and its 40 days of self-imposed deprivation. It is also celebrated in New Orleans, by both races.

As I understand it cultural appropriation is using aspects of someone else’s culture in a way that undermines or ignores or does not respect its deeper meaning to the ‘owners’.

Looking at the all-inclusive gombey troupe idea: How would those involved in the gombey troupes feel as ‘owners’ of the tradition? I could be wrong, but I don’t think they would find it acceptable, because it would change the tradition in a way that challenges its very roots, and ignores its deeper meaning for those involved - and probably for a lot of black and white Bermudians too.

We already have lots of traditions which are shared by all Bermudians (listed in various other posts on this thread). And white Bermudians have a “companion tradition” which is the experience of gombeys as non-participants in the actual dancing.

It may be that one day these two traditions will gradually merge, but I still think any proposal to artificially encourage such a merger which is not initiated by the ‘owners’ of the gombey tradition is not only unnatural but constitutes some form of cultural appropriation.

[Onion on 25.04.05 at 00:55]

Turtle, Carnival does not have its roots in Roman Catholicism directly. Lent is Catholic. The carnival itself is not Catholic. Carnival is made up of all forms of dance and music that to a large degree are borne out of slave traditions. Eg. Capawaya(sp) is a Brazilian form of martial arts that slaves used to disguise as a dance. Many white Brazilians partake in this.

I think there are a vast amount of blacks who themselves don't appreciate the history or "deeper meaning" behind a lot of our traditions. So if whites want to participate in gombey dancing then they should feel free. If they choose not to their decision not to partkake should not be because they are appropriating anything.

Having said all this I am aware that the prevailing mentality amongst blacks and whites is very conservative and somewhat anal at times. There are many Bermudians, black and white, who would not be caught dead hopping around with the gombeys on Front St on 24th May. That's a fact.

Such inhibitions are not as rife in many other countries where people are a little less tight-azzed.

[Turtle on 25.04.05 at 01:22]

Interesting! I didn't know all that background to Carnival and capoeira. I wonder how the involvement of white Brazilians and Trinidadians began?

[Onion on 25.04.05 at 01:32]

They just want to enjoy it with everyone else!

[Bill Cook on 25.04.05 at 10:38]

Religion in Brazil is a unique blend of Christianity and African Religion ie Vodoo which to an outsider is puzzling.As the mix is of Africans,Portuguese,Indians,and Europeans,etc.
At Christmas and New Yr. hundreds of thousands of Cariocas dress up in all white light candles on the beach at night and throw offerings of flowers etc into the sea, to the "Gods"
In reality they are not truly religious but will bend any rules just to have a fun time.
Carnivale is one time that everyone can join in as long as they respect the structure of the Samba Schools as this is a serious contest.
While it is true that on the surface there is no racial discrimination, there is a social strata of wealth as 90% of the countries wealth is in the control of a handful of families none of which are white although there are wealthy non whites but not in the top circles.
Spent considerable time there over past 30 yrs some fellow Bermudians went and are still there.
They are Portuguese and speak the language.

[Bill Cook on 25.04.05 at 10:41]

OOPS should be none of which are Black,the top ruling families that is.

[Onion on 25.04.05 at 12:00]

Yes, racism still exists in Brazil. My point was that on the entertainment and cultural side whites are just as much "in the mix".

[Two Cents on 25.04.05 at 13:12]

After spending several month long vacations (8 or 9) in Brazil, I found that the divide isn't as much racial as it is economic. There is a similarity betwen the Brazilians and us (Bermudians) you often see cariocas dressed in expensive clothing or wearing NBA/NFL gear that is obviously way beyond their means soley for the impression of sucess. One day at our Brazilian "local", our waiters joined us for drinks after work and after a while I noticed that they were all drinking Budweiser, so I asked why Bud and not Brahma or one of the other local beers that are a quarter of the price and tastes just as good. I was told by several of them "If someone sees us drinking Budweiser, they know we are doing well for ourselves... even if we aren't." These "haves" without a doubt have disdain for their "have not" countrymen.

At the other end of the spectrum, I also spent a day and a half (our tour guide took us there, before and after a 48 hour rainforest tour)in a large favella (near Sao Corado), that is where you see true "racial unity" some of the poorest people you'll ever see, with the happiest, life loving attitudes. All living together and joining resources to survive. The day we got to the favella, there was a funeral for a man who died whilst attempting to steal electricity by hooking car jumper cables from the pole to his house, he died but provided electricity for several houses on his street, he was considered a martyr.

in regards to Bermudas national pride and it's seemless non-existence....this to me is due to the fact that Bermuda has advanced without it's people (the majority that is)as somebody had mentioned earlier and I agree with totally, a country's greatest resource is it's people. we all remember that that there was an avenue for the non academic student to travel along and make a name for himself/have something to be pround of. once that avenue was blockaded it left many of the members of the majority, who I might add were/are quite capable of true success, feeling disenfranchised. (on the measure of sucess......Bermudians have been hoodwinked into the belief that success is a strictly financial element.)
we can talk about traditions, gombeys, fishcakes, kites, ducking stool, the exhibition, peppercorn ceremony, etc. all we want.........if Bermudians, Black or white, are not part of the development of the land in which these traditions hail....they too will die just as our so called pride has.
me personally, I am proud to be from a speck in the middle of the atlantic, and consider myself special to be a member of such a small population in such a mysterious place.
While I was in school in Canada I found it interesting how many people had no idea where Bermuda was but had heard of the triangle (of course the only thing they had known about) and it allways brought a smile to my face when they realized the oh so close proximity to north america once explained, while we reasoned over the dark and stormys that I provided. Someone mentioned also the likeness of our blackseal rum to newfoundland screech, our codfish and potatoe national dish is also a staple of newfoundland, both are results of our colonial past(as is our measure of success).
but back to the topic at hand.....national pride development.
my idea is that with the re-instatement of trade/hospitality education (directly after middle school) with the incorporation of apprenticeship programs as a part of the curriculum, under qualified Bermudian tradesmen as well as foreign workers as a viable option for our young people there would be an upsurgence of gross national pride eventually. we have two mega high school structures I am sure one can be used for academics and the other for trade/hospitality studies (CBA the site of the trade education center of the past can be revamped and returned to the edu center that it once was)students of this trade center can redevelop areas such as the club med in st. georges and the baselands in somerset (virtually free of charge with the cost of materials being paramount)for the use of much needed affordable housing,for starters.
some mentioned names from our past that were instrumental in the development of Bermuda as it is today.......I don't think they (especially Dr E.F Gordon) would be happy with the state of affairs that Bermuda is in right now in regards to our "Bermudian" Workforce in the areas of trade/hospitality.