Randy Horton And The Pip Squeak Police

Home Affairs Minister Randy Horton will have further damaged the reputation of Bermuda's government if the account of his actions on Sunday's American Airlines flight turns out to be accurate.

Mr. Horton did several things that would be unacceptable behaviour for anyone, never mind a prominent member of the government. He tried to go to the bathroom while the plane was coming in to land and the fasten seatbelts sign was presumably on, potentially putting the safety of the other passengers at risk. When told to sit down, he engaged in an angry altercation with the steward, during which he allegedly asked "Do you know who I am?" and suggested that the steward's actions were racially motivated.

This was not merely a sharp exchange of views: the cabin crew considered the incident so serious that they reported it to the police. You would think that being escorted to the airport's police station for questioning would have humbled Mr. Horton. Apparently not. According to "police sources", Mr. Horton stood up before the interview was finished, said that he did not have time to deal with "you pip squeaks" and left. I wonder how the airline feels about that.

This is the kind of behaviour I expect from a bad-boy rock star after one too many in-flight drinks, not a member of Bermuda's Cabinet. I'm embarrassed and humiliated to think that I actually live in a place where this sort of thing seems to be acceptable, and where some will invoke race to excuse it.

But it's Mr. Horton's alleged behaviour in the police station that troubles me most. As Minister of Home Affairs it's inexcusable for him to show any disrespect towards the police, particularly at a time when many Bermudians are concerned about crime and the seeming inability of the police to combat it. It undermines their ability to do their job and sets a bad example to the rest of Bermuda. In any other country it would probably lead to calls for his resignation.

In a statement last night, Mr. Horton suggested that "persons who choose to serve the public must exercise professionalism and honesty above all whenever they come into contact with the public". The irony was clearly lost on him.

Comments

[Tiger Bay on 26.04.05 at 13:09]

Another terrible example set by Randy Horton on AA, arguing when he was told to sit down during the final approach. I have seen people arrested by the Transportation Security Agency in the US for similar actions. This undermines Bermuda's reputation for security.

[Id Eeyo Ci on 26.04.05 at 13:09]

Bet that flight steward was a racist royalist. If we were independent, Randy wouldn't have to put up with that crap. They would know who he was. He gets so much respect outside of Bermuda. I hope the US put a watch order on him.

[jake on 26.04.05 at 13:10]

Anyone who knows Randy knows that he would not intentionally cause a disruption on a flight. What I am familiar with are the flight attendents who speak in a disrespectful manner to adults - many of whom may be doing normal things - like trying to use the bathroom, at a less than appropriate time. A simple, "Sir, I am sorry but you will have to sit down" works much better than an order barked at a grown man. It is of course easy for Tiger to think that this is about Randy wanting better than average treatment. That is probably because he does not know the life experiences that many black men carry, of being treated like they are children, and spoken to as if they deserve nothing in the way of respect. He complied. He sat down. I am confident however that the Tigers of this list will add it to the many other instances of people refusing to be treated like children: people who choose to speak out. Rosa Parks, your struggle lives on.

[ruby tuesday on 26.04.05 at 13:11]

you tell 'im bro.

[Tiger Bay on 26.04.05 at 13:12]

Rules is rules. Even if you are Randy Horton.

[shipstones on 26.04.05 at 13:12]

Jake, If you can see something racist in being told politely or impolitely to sit the F... down, you are even more of a victim than I thought. Law abiding citizens do what they are told, even if they are spoke to like children! Complain later!

[jake on 26.04.05 at 13:13]

I did not say it was racist. That would be a comment on the instruction giver. I said that people subjected to that kind of treatment for a lifetime may be less receptive to it. And for the record - he did sit down after telling the attendant what he thought of the treatment. As for me being a victim because I see where Randy's frustrations are - I have long doubted your ability to connect with reality, so your judgment really means very little - at the best of times. And fair is fair - even if you are Randy Horton.

[Tiger Bay on 26.04.05 at 13:15]

An airline employee should not be rude to any passenger ... even if they are not Randy Horton. However, talking back doesn't do shit during a landing approach, except possibly get you air marshall on your ass.

[loki on 26.04.05 at 13:16]

Sorry, but when stewards are trying to ensure the safety of passengers, especially when the plane is on final approach and the seatbelt sign has been switched on, I want them to bark orders first and be polite once the plane has landed. There's a damn good reason why the seatbelt sign is put on for takeoff and final approach: it's the most potentially dangerous part of any flight and almost all aircraft accidents occur at these times. The seatbelt sign was on. He knew that he was supposed to sit down, but he ignored that. Personally, I would never even DREAM of disobeying a direct order from any member of an airline cabin crew or the flight deck. A person who ignores a seatbelt sign not only jeopardizes his own safety, but also that of his fellow passengers. Any unexpected turbulence or, God forbid, downdraft, and a human being becomes a very heavy, very dangerous missile in the cabin. Bottom line: obey the captain's orders (of which turning on the seatbelt sign is one), obey the orders of the cabin staff and do what you're told. When passenger safety is at issue, you give orders, not friendly requests. He was wrong.

[Terry on 26.04.05 at 13:17]

This has nothing to do with Race. It is a matter of being in a place and time that you have no control over. If the plane was in trouble and the crew needed to get things under control as they are taught, not a soul would even think of back talking. I have been told to sit down by whites, chinese, blacks, and my peers. If the Premier told him to sit down, would he? Randy has flown 100 times to the Island and he knows when you r ears pop and you see water and the reefs it's time to unload. Another chapter in the ones that wanted to be there, now they are there and still scream about race.

It took him Forty years to make his hat trick, and he can't even wear the Hat. This is a result of the late 60's-70's. They asked for it, got it, you got your Toyota.

Terry.

Ps. I still don't think anyone knows where or why I am commenting on this. Visit the PAST.......

[ace on 26.04.05 at 13:18]

Agreed loki.

You know what I HATE? I hate it when people with cell phones keep talking on the damn things even after being told that it could distrupt navigation frequencies prior to take-off. If I see one I immediatley call for an attendant and point out the offender.

What are these people THINKING?

[Terry on 26.04.05 at 13:18]

Jake, there is a total differance betwen Discrimination and complying with everyday rules, regulations. Seems you have a mentor, I suggest you loose your chip as well well as many others of both Races.

Terry.

[mat on 26.04.05 at 13:19]

jake,

sounds to me as if you are defending someone's actions due to a chip they may be carrying on their shoulders. truth of the matter is i don't know what it is like to be a black man and be spoken down to. but i do know what its like to be on american based public transportation after 9-11. listen to what the flight attendant says, whether it be in a disrespectful tone of voice or not. thats just common sense and has nothing to do with any racial psychology you got going on. plain and simple. they speak, you listen...unless they are pipsqueaks and you are an important minister of an island of 60,000 people....

baaaaaaaaa, whatever.

[Martin on 26.04.05 at 13:19]

Yet another example of arrogance on behalf of the PLP.

"Do you know who I am?"....sadly the answer is "yes"!

[ruby tuesday on 26.04.05 at 13:20]

He also asked the steward "Do you know who I am?" Maybe we can blame his crass stupidity on early Alzheimers. He should carry a little not around his neck with his name, address and essential medication requirements on it.

[jake on 26.04.05 at 13:34]

Right. I have a chip. We should all be thankful that we are out of chains.

I just happen to believe that he is not as unreasonable as he is being portrayed. I also happen to know that fligth attendents pre and post 9/11 are not infallible.

One thing I like is when you guys point out that he is a Minister of a small country. Should we all take the shit of the world because of that? From some glorified waiter on a glorified bus?

As they say in (little small) Bermuda: respect is due to a dog. The attendent was out of order and your responses to him and me are typical.

[Smiths on 26.04.05 at 13:36]

"Suggested that the stewards behaviour was racially motivated".

Ah yes, why didn't I think of that....whites can go to the bathroom, blacks cannot.

[Andrew on 26.04.05 at 13:43]

Jake, I'm sorry, but I can't fault the flight attendant on this one.

Perhaps she was rude or impatient, but as a PLP Minister, Mr. Horton should be well aware of aircraft regulation. When the plane is landing or taking off, one stays in one's seat. One does not make a scene by invoking political position or insinuating ulterior motives.

His race doesn't excuse it, his office doesn't justify it.

[The Limey on 26.04.05 at 13:52]

jake - So you believe that the steward was rude, that he over-reacted, and that Mr. Horton's response was an acceptable response.

But what do you make of Mr. Horton's alleged behaviour in the police station afterwards? Was that acceptable too?

[mat on 26.04.05 at 13:54]

jake, you are talking about a chip on the shoulders in your previous posts -- can you see that?

in case you can't, here's a reminder:

"It is of course easy for Tiger to think that this is about Randy wanting better than average treatment. That is probably because he does not know the life experiences that many black men carry, of being treated like they are children, and spoken to as if they deserve nothing in the way of respect."

I didn't say anything about you having a chip...but you defended Randy Horton's alleged reactions using this anecdote.

No one said anyone was infalliable here, just that there are basic rules that you follow on a plane, regardless of who you are. Its common sense.

Don't throw out ridiculus statements like "respect is due a dog" and think they mean anything. they don't. the only thing typical here is your inability to see the basic problems in this situation without throwing up the race card and crying about Rosa Parks.

[The Limey on 26.04.05 at 14:02]

jake

As they say in (little small) Bermuda: respect is due to a dog.

Bollocks.

Respect is due only to those who earn it, and that includes political leaders. Demanding unconditional respect is a sign of insecurity and immaturity.

If Mr. Horton had quietly returned to his seat the first time he had been told to sit down, that would have earned him some respect. If he had patiently gone through the process in the police station, he would have been respected for that too.

Do you respect a petulant child? I think not.

[Tiger Bay on 26.04.05 at 14:35]

"We should all be thankful that we are out of chains."

You do yourself discredit with petulant responses like that Jake. You know the man was outtaline, and given the cautious nature of his followup it sounds like Handyrandy does too.

[shipstones on 26.04.05 at 14:39]

Going in to Philadelphia last week the "white" lady in front of me waqs asked by a curt "white" security officer to take off her shoes at the metal detector. The pasenger said its OK I wear these shoes regularly and they don't set alarm off. She walked through with shoes on and it didn't go off!
But the security officer still told her to get out of line and be screened thoroughly by another officer, just because she wouldn't take her shoes off!
Was this fair? From where I stood it wasn't but what the heck, the passenger took it in her stride, mumbled under her breath and kept going.

No racism involved Jake!

[loki on 26.04.05 at 14:45]

Ships,

I think you may have misunderstood what was going on there. Shoes don't set off the metal detector - that's not why they tell you to take them off. The reason they do is so they can put the shoes through the scanner to ensure that they don't have plastic explosives stashed in them. For obvious reasons, it's standard procedure that anyone who raises an objection to the screening is screened more thoroughly. Also, it's possible that her boarding pass had been marked for a randomn screening (as happened to my wife last week at JFK).

[shipstones on 26.04.05 at 15:03]

I beg to differ Loki, but I know what your saying. It is standard procedure.
There are metal strips in many shoes now, in the sole, that's why they ask you to take your shoes off. Sneakers are fine.
This lady was pointed out to the second officer by the first officer who asked her to take her shoes off, then commented behind the lady's back "just because I look young and innocent they won't listen to me!"

[jake on 26.04.05 at 15:11]

I think Randy Horton was surprised by the rudeness. Responded in kind, and then caught himself, and took his seat. Does that amount to in flight terrorism? Certainly not.

Does it warrant police intervention? No.

And for the record, no one would expect a senior minister in the UK to be interviewed by PC's in the Airport. He is ostensibly their boss, and his role warranted the intervention of a senior officer. That has been the case for many years. PC's cannot even stop a senior officer who appears to be driving drunk as was demonstrated in the Esdaille case years ago.

What I tried to show you was that from his persepctive it was WAY over the top to be spoken to in that way. Thinking this makes me the carrier of a racial chip for you. THat is because you are white, and that is the new legitimised battle cry anytime the word race is used. Chip on shoulder and race card. It is because you are defensive of any white person. In contrast, I never attributed racial motives to the person telling him to sit down. I said they were rude. I pointed out that he is probably more sensitive than those here.

You guys miss the point everytime in your rush to WHITE WASH every scenario. It is pathetic.

And no. I think every person on earth is due respect. By simple virtue of being a person they are due this. But even if this were not the case, Randy has earned his. He has done more for and in his country than you have Phil. So should I conclude that because of that you are not due the level of respect he is?

[Smiths on 26.04.05 at 15:12]

Presumably, Horton's reference to the stewards actions being racially motivated, is his way of saying to the party faithful, "I did no wrong".

Well, that's novel. Shit politics - but novel nonetheless.

Are we reaching the stage where we can say or do nothing on this Island, in case it is racially motivated?

What a sad day for humanity.

With a bit of luck, charges will be laid against Horton in the US. That will tickle old Alex...he hates the Brits and then finds the US don't like him either!!

[Tiger Bay on 26.04.05 at 15:15]

"no one would expect a senior minister in the UK to be interviewed by PC's in the Airport."

A UK minister who acted this way would be ridiculed and hounded from office.

[loki on 26.04.05 at 15:21]

Aha, Ships. Google is our friend. Turns out we're both right. It seems that at airports in the US, the TSA/airport suggest that you remove your shoes and put them through the scanner because some shoes have metal in them and will set off the metal detector. However, they also ramdomly select passengers and order them to remove their shoes to be put through the scanner. This is to screen the shoes for plastic explosives, and they started doing this after Richard Reid tried to bring down a plane by concealing plastic explosives in his shoes. So, there you are. We're both right, it seems.

[Terry on 26.04.05 at 15:22]

Mr. Horton, Good Morning.
Good Morning Your Woship:
Mr. Horton, on the charge of parking your GP vehicle Reg. Number 007, on a Pedestrian Crosswalk and leaving it unattended, how do you plead.
NOT Guilty.
Mr.Warner:- Do you have an explanation?
Horton:- I saw all these other cars parked on it, and all the drivers were White, so I thought it was OK.
Warner:- Yes, but all the Ministers that drive those GP cars are Black.
Horton:- So what are you saying, I got this ticket because I am Black?. Don't be playing no race card with me. Do you know who I am?
Warner:- Mr. Horton, please sit down.
Horton:- You can't make me sit down and take a seat. I have to go pee.....
Warner:-This is my Court and I do things according to the Law.
Horton:- Well, I will have to get the Bro's and Sisters to send you back to the Indies.
Warner:- Go for it, I need a vacacation from this nonsense.
Horton:- Can I just have a word in your ear?
Warner:- When the seat belt sign goes off, and I SAY YOU CAN.

Horton:- Thanks but I need a lawyer right now.
Warner:- I can see how you LANDED here. It's now a matter of LANDING FEES.......

Warner:- I will decide on a date to hear your not guilty plea.

Horton:- Let me set the date so I can have a window seat, off the isle.

Next Week:-

Horton falls overboard trying to jump onto dock in Hamilton as deckhands are trying to secure ferry in 12foot swells.

Terry..

[shipstones on 26.04.05 at 15:30]

Chip on shoulder and race card. It is because you are defensive of any white person.
Echo! Echo!
Where is the white person in this. Oh the steward was white! Only Jake has assumed this, and Randy being black is sensitive to childish remarks made to him. According to Jake.
So the white steward was wrong and we are protecting him! He couldn't be right because he is white and you know Randy! How racial can you get!
Jake all this is in your mind only.
Noone else mentioned a white person being involved. What if the steward was black.
Where do we get your remarks to suggest racism? The following is your race card noone elses:
"That is probably because he does not know the life experiences that many black men carry, of being treated like they are children, and spoken to as if they deserve nothing in the way of respect."
The reference to Rosa Parks was another race card.
By the way i thought Alex said the Governor was in charge of police!

[shipstones on 26.04.05 at 15:33]

Sorry Randy brought up race card! I was giving him too much credit.

[Onion on 26.04.05 at 15:43]

Limey,

First of all let me say that you seem to preface your initial comments by saying "if this [all] proves to be accurate..." Being that we don't know, unless all of us were on the plane that day, shouldn't we all reserve judgment?? You yourself said admit this was an "alleged" incident.

I think some of you really belong on "Bermuda Forum for Free Speech" site. It always makes me laugh to see so many of you just LEAP out of your seats, salivating to get stuff off your chest when it comes to topics suh as this. All of you have made your decision on what went on - inluding you Limey - without even being there. Limey, if you're embarrassed about being in a country where a minister could "allegedly" act in such a way then go back to Limey Land.

What is funny is that none of you have commented on Mr. Hortons interview on Hot 107.5 this morning where he gave his version of events which certainly contrast sharply with what was reported in RG. Proper investigative journalism, which does not exist in Bermuda, would've sought the "other side of the story".

I personally have no clue if Mr. Horton was rude but I would like to hear both side. As I read the comments above I have to wonder who exactly has a chip on their shoulder. Sounds like some of you need some tums.

[mat on 26.04.05 at 15:48]

Jake,

Your arguments are elementary. They are based on a reality that only exists in your own mind. Its sad. You can't answer anyone's questions above but you can point the finger at limey and bring up examples from the past. Great, you are a legend in your own mind...whatever. It really doesn't matter. Funny thing is, the more your avoid the issues here, the more ridiculous you look. You are way out on a limb right now jake, climb back in and make some sense.

[Onion on 26.04.05 at 15:49]

I also find it hilarious that all of you are such do-gooders when it comes to observing rules in the sky. How many of you can put your hand on your heart and say you NEVER went to the bathroom during a descent, especially when your bladder was goona explode?

Limey, you need to start a new website and call it limey-back-in England-where-Ministers-nere-do-anything-wrong.com.

That'll go down well.

[shipstones on 26.04.05 at 15:58]

First Limey reported what was in the paper and probably does have time to listen to Hot Hot Hot radio.
Secondly nearly all comments stem from Jake's comments about black men being treated like children etc. etc.. His was the second comment. By the way I didn't even notice that Randy supposedly used race card.
Also, You had to throw the usual piss off home line in there didn't you!
Onion, I live here because I want to live here and I will complain and comment on anything I like or dislike so piss off yourself.
George Bush is not above my ridicule so I am damn sure Randy isn't!

[Yes-I on 26.04.05 at 16:07]

The flight attendant should not be faulted.

Flight instructions are neither polically nor racially motivated. Flight instructions are common sense basic rules for passenger safety.

Members of Government should be well versed in travelling to and from the rock on official business.

When Members of Goverment say/act/represent themselves and Bermuda in a negative or offensive capacity, ever effort should be exhausted by that Member to apologize and or rectify that situation. True leaders are responsible for their actions. Inclusive of the negative.

How did Rosa Parks come into this situation?

[fan on 26.04.05 at 16:15]

onion what are you talking about. the gazette DID talk to randy horton, his comments are right there. radio was pretty much reading them this morning. did you forget to actually read the entire story? that makes you guilty of exactly what you're accusing the gazette of ...

[mat on 26.04.05 at 16:15]

onion,

the truth always lies somewhere in the middle. but logically speaking, do you think that AA would go to the police without some kind of reason? doubtful. read the posts above again. the basic issue is this:
there are certain ways to behave on public transportation, especially planes originating in the US. When a flight attendent tells you to sit down, you do it. No matter who you are. Limey brings up some good points about Randy Horton supposedly calling the police pipsqueaks and the effect this disrespect has on public opinion. Its a good point Onion, although it might be based on an event that never occurred.
Anyways, I don't think anyone is salivating over this behaviour or making posts deemed suitable for Bermuda Frickin Free Speech Forum -- but situations like this one on the plane don't just materialize out of thin air. When you are a public figure, you need to lead by example...and when you don't, its quite normal for people to want to get to the bottom of it....

[big bad wolf on 26.04.05 at 16:18]

Randy has a bad temper....He has always generally kept a clean sheet in public life. The key role of flight attendants is safety,Randy may of not liked the manner that he was told to sit down....but the flight staff are in charge of the plane's main cabin. End of story! If Randy did not like how he was treated he can always lodge an official complaint against the airline. When ever Randy loses his temper it is usually because of pressure of the moment. He is at heart a good person but like most of us can snap when people come on in a hostile manner.I have at times come across flight attendants that go nitro over chairs not being completely up right...In most cases it is a simple over sight but the flight attendants use the infraction as a chance to blow off steam.

[mat on 26.04.05 at 16:19]

another elementary argument completely missing the point:

I also find it hilarious that all of you are such do-gooders when it comes to observing rules in the sky. How many of you can put your hand on your heart and say you NEVER went to the bathroom during a descent, especially when your bladder was goona explode?

Limey, you need to start a new website and call it limey-back-in England-where-Ministers-nere-do-anything-wrong.com.

Answer the questions and deal with the issues...or is that possible Onion?

That'll go down well.

[JJ on 26.04.05 at 16:27]

I think the key issue here is that, regardless of Randy's side of the story, the flight attendant thought this incident was so serious that they had to report it to the police. Surely if, as he says, it was "blown out of proportion" by the media, why did the attendant report it? there are loads of incidents that go on before, during and after a flight has taken off but most don't get reported to the police. This was obviously a serious breach of the rules and probably a bit of "air rage". Mr.Horton should have shown some class, bit his tongue and, if he felt wronged, then file a complaint with AA.
That would have been the dignified thing to do. I agree with Limey that his alleged behavior with the police is extremely disturbing considering his position.

[Yes-I on 26.04.05 at 16:28]

Mat

What is the point? Follow directions.

Either party could have dramatized the situation.
Rumor control.

Besides, apres the weekend, no one will remember which Minister did what.

[jake on 26.04.05 at 17:09]

Who is out on a limb mat? Me?

Because I do not agree with the sentiments here?
Good. I don't want to be associated with your comments.

And I welcome your comment that my contribution is elementary. I would hope that with so many reactionaries on this site, I would be able to communicate at your level.

I think the flight attendant (to answer the allegation above mat, do try to follow along) reported the incident to the Police in the same vindictive spirit that the original orders were barked.

Flight attendent does not make your right, nor a god. If they had handled the matter in a sensible way none of this would have transpired.

But I know, none of you - not one - would stand up for anything where someone from the PLP is concerned.

You are cowards in that respect. Cowardice at its "pack mentality" best.

[Pitts Bay on 26.04.05 at 17:13]

Yes-I

That is one of the problems we have in Bermuda - everything gets swept under the carpet within a week and everyone in Bermuda forgets!

The problem is that many people outside Bermuda (and particulary in the US) do not have such short memories. If the behaviour was as bad as the RG reported (and I doubt if we will ever have the true story), then this will reflect badly on Bermuda with (a) any of the business people who were in first class with Randy; and (b) the next time the Bermuda government (Ewart Brown) has to negotiate with AA.

Whatever the true circumstances, Bermuda is going to get the short end of the stick.

[Pitts Bay on 26.04.05 at 17:18]

Jake

I take it that you believe Randy's statement of what happened entirely and take no stock in the report of the steward.

Is that not exactly the same thing you object to in the comments above?

[mat on 26.04.05 at 17:40]

jake,
point, blame and make all the excuses you want. throw the race card around, call in rosa parks, blame the flight attendant, the media, whatever....call me a coward -- it doesn't matter...you still can't get your head around the issue here and its making me smile.

[The Limey on 26.04.05 at 17:42]

Onion,

Limey, if you're embarrassed about being in a country where a minister could "allegedly" act in such a way then go back to Limey Land

Ah, the cutting edge of debate. I love it.

I also find it hilarious that all of you are such do-gooders when it comes to observing rules in the sky. How many of you can put your hand on your heart and say you NEVER went to the bathroom during a descent, especially when your bladder was goona explode?

(places hand on heart) I have NEVER gone to the bathroom during a descent, or even tried to move around the cabin while the fasten seatbelts light is on. And if one day I do decide to try it on, and get caught by the steward, I'd admit it was a fair cop and return to my seat.

What is funny is that none of you have commented on Mr. Hortons interview on Hot 107.5 this morning

Hardly surprising. Most of us are at work without access to a radio. If my opinion changes after listening to the news tonight I'll let you know.

Limey, you need to start a new website and call it limey-back-in-England-where-Ministers-nere-do-anything-wrong.com.

As I and many others have pointed out numerous times on numerous threads, Ministers in the UK frequently do stuff that's immoral or even downright illegal. The difference is that there they generally lose their jobs because of it.

[shipstones on 26.04.05 at 17:48]

"Flight attendent does not make your right, nor a god. If they had handled the matter in a sensible way none of this would have transpired."

Jake what is your source HOT Hot Hot radio or Randy himself?

But I know, none of you - not one - would stand up for anything where someone from the PLP is concerned.

Victim response! I would stand up for Paula Cox and her comments to the media, also Alex Scotts at RIMS.

You are cowards in that respect. Cowardice at its "pack mentality" best.

WhoaW! where do you get this hostility Jake! Nobody agrees with you! So you call it "Pack Mentality". Oh I forgot, we are all white and therefore it must be so!

If you are right I am sure the steward will lose his job and all the passengers sitting near Randy will back him up. Unless of course they are white!

Do you think the police that he dissed are white also? This is one terrible conspiracy!

Respect!

[jake on 26.04.05 at 17:51]

Ignorance is bliss, mat. Smile on.

[Andrew on 26.04.05 at 18:06]

Still, the thought holds true - we elect leaders to make the law, not to elevate them above it.

[Shark on 26.04.05 at 18:06]

Well this post has goten very heated in the comments. Can’t you all just agree that this was a situation that got way out of hand and leave it at that? The race card doesn’t need to be played.

There was never any mention of the race of the flight steward so why jump to conclusions?

And Jake and Onion some of your views would probably belong on the Bermuda Free Speech Forum as well as other posters on this site.

Maybe the steward was stressed or Randy was stressed as happens on flights. Though the only logical reason I can think of his actions at the police station is that he was jet-lagged. I mean how would you feel if you had to report to a police station after a plane trip.

Having said that politicians are human so make mistakes but they should always try to obey rules as they as leaders of a country must set an example.

[proudbermudian on 26.04.05 at 18:11]

"If" the media's side of the story stands up to scrutiny and can be corroborated, Horton should resign. His portfolio IS law and order for God's sake!
I am sick and tired of the "race card" and "if" the media was correct, it has been overplayed one too many times.

Resign Horton. Simply by treating those people (the police) that ostensibly look to you for leadership, with such disdain and outright belittlement, you MUST do the only honourable thing left to try and salvage back the respect for the government, your party, and most importantly the people you serve (both black, white and other)...

RESIGN

[Onion on 26.04.05 at 18:15]

Shipstones, read the bleddy email before responding for once!! Was I telling you to leave Bermuda? I wasn't even talking to you. this is the 2nd time you've misquoted me.

[jake on 26.04.05 at 18:17]

Phil,

As usual you give the UK far too much credit. When I lived there - longer than you lived in Bermuda by the way - I saw MP after MP doing all manner of BS and it was the exception that resigned. Don't be ridiculous.

I really do find it boring to see your country highlighted as a signpost for mine. Randy, faults included - never assualted anyone, as did Prescott - who has never resigned.

So cut the crap.

[The Limey on 26.04.05 at 18:30]

Jake - Name me *one* Bermudian minister who has *ever* resigned or been kicked out of Cabinet for doing something unethical or illegal. (Note that doesn't include John Swan, who resigned for different reasons.)

[big bad wolf on 26.04.05 at 18:31]

God I go away for the weekend and you lot all seem to be as unhappy as ever!This little spate will become clear when official written statements are made. Things probably got out of hand because of a reaction to embarrasssment plus the discomfort of holding a stream.Lets not generalize all this to end someones political life. If Randy made a mistake I'm sure he is adult enough to apologize ^..^

[The Limey on 26.04.05 at 18:42]

Here's Randy Horton's side of the story, according to the news this evening:

1. He never said, nor has he ever said, "Do you know who I am?"

2. He used the term "pip squeak" but it was directed at the steward, not the police.

3. He went to use the bathroom, the steward told him to sit down, he asked why, he was told it was a security issue and so he returned to his seat.

I'm prepared to believe 1 and 2 based on Mr. Horton's sincerity and the fact that even the police have said that some of the comments attributed to Mr. Horton in the RG were never made (though they weren't specific about which ones). This suggests that the Gazette could indeed have been a little sloppy with their fact-checking and I wouldn't be surprised if a correction follows.

I still doubt that the situation was as straightforward as described in 3, otherwise it seems unlikely that the airline would have involved the police. However it's odd that the airline still has not filed a formal complaint. Was the steward just a bit highly strung?

Apparently there have been numerous calls to the radio talk shows by passengers who witnessed the altercation between Mr. Horton and the steward, apparently with conflicting accounts. Has anyone heard any of them?

[Two Cents on 26.04.05 at 19:32]

Poor Mr Horton thinks he was treated poorly (boo hoo). I travel pretty regularly, and yes I know how it feels to be singled out while travelling. This year I have flown several times through Boston's Logan Airport and have been searched four (yes four) times in one day in the 120 feet from the check in desk to the airport security gate which separates departing travellers from everyone else. I was told by TSA/secreeners who were contemplating how to give me a colonoscopy that the "new rule of thumb is" any male with out a US Passport travelling through Logan gets a circle drawn on the bottom right hand of their boarding pass indicating that they are to be treated as a "person of interest".

Now granted that it was the security at Logan that due to it's inattention let the 9-11 hijackers get aboard their respective planes, now the rest of the "non USA males" travelling have to suffer.

After having your bags searched, your shoes examined, and the guard having a look down the inside of your trousers you know how its feels like to be treated like a second class citizen or even worse a suspect,

Now Mr Horton's behavior was inexcusable, I would expect it from Liam or Noel Gallagher, but not from a Government MP.

[jake on 26.04.05 at 19:33]

Austin Thomas, Gilbert Darell were booted out of the PLP.

Arthur Hodgson was given the boot for his role in undermining the leadership.

A certain PLP Senator was removed for not having up to date tax payments.

Edgar Wilkinson resigned from the BMA after admitting trying to export money in contravention of monetary policy (in place at that time - today he would not be breaking any laws).

Nelson Bascome was not returned to Cabinet after his term was deemed a disaster.

Renee Webb resigned over Cabinet policy.

You see Phil, people are often dealt with in small societies in ways that allow them to save face. Here's the insight for you - it is part of our culture to allow a quiet exit, even though popular knowledge has the truth of the matter.

Saving face is not unique to Bermuda. Most cultures recognise the value in allowing people to retire or withdraw with some semblance of dignity.

[jake on 26.04.05 at 19:36]

Wow Phil,

An amazing about face. So now Randy was not a charging bull in the airplane and the steward was high strung?

Because the Police confirm it?

As I said in the VERY BEGINNING - Randy is not the type to create a disturbance, but he would certainly respond to a rudely delivered instruction.

Demonstrates the willingness of some of you to believe the very worst no matter the facts speaking otherwise.

[The Limey on 26.04.05 at 19:46]

jake,

The facts as they were known this morning suggested that Randy Horton was utterly in the wrong. The facts now suggest things are less clear cut.

When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?

[ric on 26.04.05 at 19:59]

"What I am familiar with are the flight attendents who speak in a disrespectful manner to adults - many of whom may be doing normal things - like trying to use the bathroom, at a less than appropriate time."

I am also familiar with flight attendants who genuinely try to do their job with the utmost of professionalism. Also with flight attendants who are treated like shit by people who think that they are absolved of normal standards of decency, by virtue of the fact that they paid for a ticket. People who pour scorn over flight attendants precisely because they feel them to be "glorified waiters on a glorified bus?".

I have flown a significant number of times, and can honestly say that I have never encountered a rude, obnoxious, snappy flight attendent. Which is actually quite amazing given the potential for stressful situations in the air. Yet it's perfectly logical - people in the service industry are fired if they provide bad service.

I'm terribly sorry if in your experience, certain flight attendants may have come across as over-zealous in trying to do their job. But I found your comments very unnerving because they seem a very real manifestation of elitist snobbery - ALL people who try their hardest to make a living should be respected for that. Whether or not you are a snob, I'm sure you're not, but that's how it came across.

Jake, I respect that you try to provide an alternative view to situations like these, because admittedly, people on these online fora tend to post eagrely, providing only rationalisations for their words afterwards. And in no way am I saying that that one side or the other is right - I really do not know.

I just think that everyone who comments about these kinds of things should try to empathise with both sides. I'm sorry but with comments such as "glorified waiters on a glorified bus", and unduly beligerent statements to Phil, et al., they do not suggest that you are doing just that.

And two final notes, US Federal Law mandates that Passengers follow all directions given from pilots or flight attendents - Cabinet Minister or not.

And regarding UK politicians...

"And for the record, no one would expect a senior minister in the UK to be interviewed by PC's in the Airport."

"I saw MP after MP doing all manner of BS and it was the exception that resigned."

So? I don't elect them. I don't care.

[othello on 26.04.05 at 20:16]

Is it me, or is the whole race thing tiring?
Why can't we move forward and put our history to bed. Bringing up the black / white issue constantly only continues to fuel animosity from both races. BTW - where do Portugese descent Bermudians fit into this cat fight?

[Bill Cook on 26.04.05 at 20:33]

If I travel to London as I do each year to visit Wimbledon and I travel in 3rd class (forget the fancy name) and I try to use the first class toilet I am turned away, if the flight attendant is doing the their job.
If I am paying $5,500 I want exclusivity and frankly I would not be above having the attendant bring me a silver pee pot to use, its a lot of money.
Only under an extreme emergency would an exception be made.
Obviously this was not the case as when offered an alternative ie the toilets for those not in first class the offer was refused.
Even if you are closer to the first class toilet than the other toilet you still are not permitted to use it. I mean its standard policy.
Sometimes I get upgraded by using points and like the perks.
In my experience all politicians and many business execs only travel first if they do not pay for it, otherways they join the rest of us.
The UBP were no exception to the rule.
Being old and having the problems most old men have I am careful to listen for the get ready to prepare for landig which comes with time to visit the toilet etc. all in good time, as any experienced traveller will do.

[The Limey on 26.04.05 at 21:23]

On the subject of Bermudian MPs who have been fired or resigned because of improper behaviour, a reader emailed me to say that he thought that Tim Smith, Jim Woolridge, and Llwellyn Peniston all either resigned or were fired for improper behaviour. These are in addition to jake's examples (some of which were not resignations from Government, however).

So perhaps it's not as unknown as I thought it was. I stand corrected.

But I disagree that resigning does not allow a Minister to save face. In my opinion that's precisely what it allows. It certainly looks better than being fired.

[The Limey on 26.04.05 at 21:25]

Othello - It's not you. All the nonsense that gets talked about race in this country is tiring beyond belief.

[Amin Swan on 26.04.05 at 21:40]

The flight attendent reporting the incident to the police could easily be his/her attempt to save their own ass.. If the Minister logged a complaint to AA, the flight attendent would most likely be repremanded, however, if the flight attendent reported this to the police first, then the playing field is now even. I work in the travel industry and have seen this done many of day's by yes, "RUDE" employees trying to save their own asses.

[jake on 26.04.05 at 22:07]

"jake,

The facts as they were known this morning suggested that Randy Horton was utterly in the wrong. The facts now suggest things are less clear cut.

When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

You know full well Phil that I change my mind when the facts change as well. You followed closely the back and forth when people sought to string Ewart Brown up over charges he had been exonerated on. I supported Brown. Now with the Pension debacle I criticised him.

So we are on level ground here, mate.

ric,

Fair comments on me, but let me give you some insight on why I think the way I do.

I have been subjected to the same treatment once when I was in a hotel in London. I asked the front desk guy to change some money for me. He gave me a dirty look and snottily asked if I was a guest. I said yes. He then asked for my name and room to prove it. I gave them. He then snatched the money and made the change and then slapped the funds on the counter. I could not believe it. I just said, to myself, fine. I will not complain. I will just go about my business...until I heard the comment behind me, "thank you would be nice"

I was absolutely enraged. "Thank you?" I said. How about "F... you. And while you are at it get the manager."

The little prick called the manager who came and then had the temerity to call security. All because I insisted that I would not be treated like dirt in a hotel I was paying for.

It was all resolved when I said "fine" again and simply went to my room. What could I do? They did not believe he had been rude to me. All they could see was a black man in jeans arguing with their staff member. They could not see my law degree. They could not see I was in London to be called to the Bar. They could not see I had simply asked for change for a twenty.

I saw that same little prick three years later on a train to Paris. Still serving food on the fast train as an attendant. I saw him get nervous as he approached my seat and recognized me.

Needless to say, I asked him if he recalled me and he lied as he blushed and said no. I asked if he worked at the hotel in London. He said yes. I told him to remember that people will not forget him and the way he treated them. I gave him some other choice advice as well.

Now many moons have come and gone and much water under the bridge. I see the same frustration when I hear of Randy's story because I know how it happens. I know how a man can be treated like shit and then blamed when he complains.

So don't ask me to flip flop like a hot jack everytime I hear an allegation from someone about a man I know very well.

I stand by what I said. I was a waiter for years as well, so I know what I am talking about. If you give customers shit, be prepared to get it back every once in a while.

[big bad wolf on 26.04.05 at 22:08]

"Will ALL of you please sit down in your seats and remain silent....we are trying to land this thread and the Captain is having problems with the high level of noise in the cabin!" Sky ^..^

[jake on 26.04.05 at 22:19]

One other thing Phil, I enjoy reading the researched articles that you write, but don't presume after your year and some change on the island to understand what makes us tick. Don't presume to know our entire history, because much of it is anecdotal and will never be written down or told to you. I stay on this forum because I learn much about the white Bermudian persepctive that I would never hear. We also hear from the shipstones who in their retired chair remind me how far we have come. I don't for one minute think that my five years in your country made me an expert on the Brits. One thing I do know however, is that they get it wrong as often if not more than we do, and they are not the honourable men and women you pretend they are in matters of resignation. They stay until it is untenable for them to do otherwise. With a majority like Labour has they have an easier time replacing talent. Randy is a good man. People here would have him leave for what you now admit may not be what the Royal Gazette said. You should know. They have already put words into your mouth in a negative fashion against the PLP.

Still your first reaction is to believe them. It is not mine. I have many more years of experience which teaches me that when good people like Randy or like Jennifer Smith are forced out, the populace does not run into the arms of the Grant Gibbons'. They run to those who have little balance and little regard for balance.

You see that now with Alex Scott. We fight the wrong people here. The PLP is not perfect. There are good people, however, inside, and I fight for them because I know my country is safe in their hands. When the good people are gone...then you will really see something. I hope we never get to that day.

[big bad wolf on 26.04.05 at 22:41]

Jake what drugs are you taking...Bermuda is safe in the PLP's hands. I do not think so....and I am no supporter of the UBP. The best in Bermuda is not in the PLP. So you go be a little furry creature following them off the cliff.... Little ^..^

[Andrew on 26.04.05 at 23:04]

I'm willing to forgive Mr. Horton's actions if he's willing to apologize for them.

It's truly sad, though, that the level of scrutiny Mr. Horton has recieved might be more than his colleague (guilty of far more than a full bladder and hot temper) will ever get.

[shipstones on 27.04.05 at 00:28]

Jake,
Your last post is much more pallatable, but you show you still want to use the excuse of racism as the first option.
I have been in a similar situation dressed in jeans and scruffy in first class on a red-eye from LA to make a meeting at 9:00am ET in New York.
I asked the stewardess if she would put my suit in the closet as I was going to a meeting the next day. She said there was no room, yet I saw her put another gentlemans coat in the locker after that.
I heatedly complained but she did not back up and continued to treat me abruptly.
I was certainly not pissed off because she was black or white, I was pissed off because I was tired and wanted my suit hung up. In turn she didn't report me. Thinking back I was totally out of line but I would probably do the same again in the same situation, knowing me.
If you had said that Randy may have said certain things and could understand how he might get irate because he was bursting for a pee, I would have understood too, but to immediately come out and say he was pissed off because he was fed up with being treated like a child because he is black shows, if true,a flaw in his character that I don't believe makes him suitable to be a Minister of this diverse country.
Jake if you want to talk about racism, come straight out with it. I will support you 100% regarding specific issues, such as the infamous e-mail from Nancy Acton or police profiling, etc. This is not one of those issues.
This is a Minister losing his cool with a steward and then the police for whom he is responsible.

Onion,
You said:
Limey, if you're embarrassed about being in a country where a minister could "allegedly" act in such a way then go back to Limey Land.

I am embarrassed by the way the Minister "allegedly" acted, so your comment addresses me too!

[rich on 27.04.05 at 01:29]

Oops…forgot the ‘h’ in my name

Your anecdote certainly puts your comments into perspective. I can’t empathise with your situation as I am not a black Bermudian who faced a comparable situation (though I know many Arab, Persian and South Asian individuals who have been subjected to similar situations).

It is very difficult for me to see the situation in the same perspective as you. My experience tells me that it is much more likely that Horton was in the wrong in this situation. Of course, this preceding analysis fails to account for two factors: 1) I was never made to feel inferior because of my appearance, and 2) I do not know Randy Horton on a similar personal level as you do. I’m sure if I did, I could make a better judgement as to whether Randy Horton was acting inappropriately or not.

What sets alarms bells off for people though is Horton’s ‘interrogation’ by the police. This happened, irrespective of what the press said. If officials are called, this tends to add credence to the argument that the attendant was right and Horton was wrong, especially in the context of the post-9/11 security order. On the flip side to that latter point, it is highly likely that this very order a) makes it more probably that the attendant was acting over-zealously or b) allows for greater abuses of authority to occur (as most of my Arab acquaintances would tell you).

I do not subscribe to the idea that just because Randy Horton talked to the police, he is in the wrong – I don’t know what happened during his session with the police, but I do know that the practise of police officers speaking with politicians after a security situation is common elsewhere. In some places, it is policy to ascertain the safety and security of cabinet ministers. Maybe the cops felt it necessary to respond to airline concerns for purely PR reasons, so that they can get a handle on what’s going and better handle it in the future. Until the police force comments, it is hard to ever know.

Let me just qualify my immediate reaction finally: while my experiences regarding race as the divisive cleavage is very limited, my experience regarding class isn’t. Family and friends of mine have frequently been made to feel humiliated because of their profession or their level of attained formal education. This is why I felt a bit of indignation following your seemingly disdainful comments regarding the attendant. I’ve also experienced humiliation based on nationality (being of Portuguese descent) and language (living in Québec), so perhaps I should have been more able to empathise with your sentiments.

Oh and for the record – I do not really put much faith in our local media. There is such a pervasive lack of professionalism that afflicts them (at least that’s how it was when I was last in Bermuda.)

[Bill Cook on 27.04.05 at 08:54]

Jake,
your comments on getting change at a London hotel if what you say is interpreted correctly you over reacted in my opinion.
An elderly friend of mine in his 80s went to a local bank to cash a small cheque and was treated so really badly he got flustered and left without his money and his case is not unique.
The hotel is not obliged legally to give you change unless you are paying a bill but the bank is obliged.
I have had both good and bad experiences in London what about you ? there must be something good for so many Bermudians to flock there going back to Dame Lois Evans to study law.
When I was a young teenager on my first experience I had little money and went to the cheaper boarding houses in Tufnell North London and was surprised to see as I walked about with my suitcase checking the windows for vacancies that signs said no coloured no dogs or Irish.
I eventually found a house owned by an English lady married to an Indian Mrs Dutt, and stayed there.
A few yrs later I was on the Palladium stage being cheered on by a group of miners from Durham one of whom lent me a shirt as my stuff had been stolen to attend the awards ceremony.
So do I hate all English I do not and have found most to be great people.
In Bermuda I have been treated very badly at the airport with immigration time after time at the TCB and with traffic wardens and all manner of civil ? servants even though I once was one here.
It is not a colour problem as much as a human problem and while we all try to contibute to making things better some try to prevent that.
we must make the choice of which category we fall into

[Onion on 27.04.05 at 09:42]

Maybe some of you listened to the news today. Maybe some of you listened to the talk shows yesterday and heard eye witness accounts of other passengers who were on that plane who saw it totally differently from how the RG reported it.

I leave it to you to opine on how much you can trust the RG when it comes to these types of "stories". What I do know is that all of you were prepared to defend Limey when he was misquoted by this same newspaper. There must've been 50 emails written.

Now the same people, including Limey himself, are ready to believe to the letter, everything in this particular RG report.

Funny.

[mat on 27.04.05 at 10:08]

onion,

which particular RG report are you referring to?

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.04.05 at 10:10]

Onion,

There are a few of us who know that once there is a hint of negativity about the PLP or one of its MPs people on this site take great delight in it and will milk it to death. Facts mean nothing to them because in their mind anything negative reported about the PLP and its MPs has to be accurate.

Simply because something is said or done by the PLP or its MPs it has to be wrong, uneducated and misguided.

[Onion on 27.04.05 at 10:11]

The report in yesterday's paper that said that Mr. Horton said, "Do you know who I am."

[Souvenirs on 27.04.05 at 10:12]

We may never know what really happened. However, Randy's repeated claim of racism is pathetic at best. Crying wolf like this only dilutes the real struggle of equality. I was roughed up by security last week in Boston. I didn't have the luxury of blaming it on race - I'm white.

[Terry on 27.04.05 at 10:16]

Mr. Cook hit the nail on the head. I agree it's a Human problem, that some will use to their likeing at oportune times. I was a Cop there in Bermuda for almost twenty years. A Portagee Cop. I got tired of all the race and segragation, even within the Force. Since living here in the US, it's the same, you just have to adjust to the game. The game of life is too brief. I get so much satisfaction from helping others and seeing their joy in seeing how just a little deed can help. Abuse of power will continue and we can do nothng about it. As they say, it will most times come out in the wash, just depends on what cycle you have it on.

Oxy Clean works very well but you have to follow the instructions, or you can ruin a good thing. Attitudes play a major role in everyday life. Me, well I take one day at a time and try my damdest to not fit in but contribute and where needed be helpfull.

A thank you to Mr. Limey for this site. I firmly belive it's needed as an insight as to gauge personal data and give an overview of the real feelings of ALL Onions. This in someway, puts on the table as to say, what is viable, edible and what needs to to thrown out in the garbage. There are good Limey's and bad little Limey's. Good Onions and bad little Onions and the list goes on. Actually I'm glad the Limey's sank and swam ashore off Barry Road in St. George. It could have been worse. It could have been another group of people looking for a better life and still not have found it.........

Be good to each other, we might be going to your Funeral next week. Enjoy the day.

Oh yes, if Mr. Horton did wrong which seems to be the case, even if it's reparable and no matter how small let it come out in the wash. The steward could be right/wrong and so could Mr. Horton. We don't need an Atomic explosion over the need to pass wind or a wee wee. Right is right and rules are rules, just depends on who is subjected to them. Common sense and internal pride is the glue that keeps the explosion from happening at the time. Take a drive to St. Davids, then too, yes Commissioner's House in Dockyard. One hour of your time and you will appreciate the beauty and on the way back stop at the Botanical Gardens for me and go to the Blind Garden, close your eyes and smell all the vegitation that you see. Then close your eyes and walk back to your car/bike. I hope you make it. Next time you see someone in need, pause and reflect, you, yes you could be inflicted some day.

I deal with the Man, not the color of his skin. Labels are for clothes and other items, not to be put on one's back or forehead. A shirt may cost 30 dollars, a life is from God, not a factory.

Have a good day and sharpen them Knives. I like my Porgie steaks nice and thick, no bones.

Terry.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.04.05 at 10:16]

Ships,

"George Bush is not above my ridicule so I am damn sure Randy isn't!"

So what you are saying is that George Bush is more important than Randy Horton and deserves a greater level of respect.

[Onion on 27.04.05 at 10:17]

Guilden,

Both of us remember just a few weeks ago when Limey spoke about being misquoted. Oh dear. People were questioning whether or not investigative journalism even existed in Bermuda. Oh my, the media in Bermuda is so woeful, they never get it right. And every Tom, Dick and Harry chimed in to agree.

Now look above and see how quickly our tune changes.

[Bob the Builder on 27.04.05 at 10:25]

I was on a Continental Airlines flight to Bermuda recently. Flying on a Saturday, 1st class (on miles, not that it matters), from Newark, very casually dressed.

As I walked into the 1st class check-in line, a Continental agent put her arm in front of me and said, "You're in the wrong line". When shown my ticket (and my continental platinum card) the agent waved me on. No apology, no respect. I was really annoyed. In my head I thought, "How dare she. Doesn't she know who I am? I fly this airline EVERY week. I have enough miles with them to go around the world.

An altercation with that agent would have accomplished nothing but brought the TSA to her defence. A polite letter to the airline though, pointing out how good a customer I am, and how disrespected I felt, got me a letter of apology from the airline, and 25,000 miles to make it up to me.

Total satisfaction? No, I didn't get to tell the agent where she could shove it. Appropriate compensation? Yes, I think so.

So what have we learned here? It's rarely worthwhile to escalate bad customer service in the moment. Comments like "do you know who I am?" and / or calling stewards "pip squeaks" only make you look like a fool. On top of that, Randy has pretty much blown any chance he had of compensation from the airline.

[Do you know who I am... on 27.04.05 at 10:34]

One additional thought.
Airlines serving Bermuda are our lifeblood. The frequent flights to and from the island bring revenue to our airport, tourists to our hotels, and enable us to claim an ease of doing business here that distinguishes us from other domiciles.

With the exception of BA, the mainstream airlines serving the island are all experiencing massive losses. US Airways probably won't survive. Delta too is on the edge of bankrupcy.

Continental and AA are in better shape. Much as we might not like it, we need these airlines... and pissing them off is not in our best interests. As a member of the government, Randy should go out of his way to let the airlines, and their employees, know we appreciate their investment in Bermuda.

One could imagine an employee of said airline, treated badly by a member of our government, hooked as it is on the perks that our economic prosperity brings, could reasonably ask him, "don't you know who I am?"

[Onion on 27.04.05 at 10:40]

Bob, DYKWIA

Once again, each of you is speaking on the assumption that what the RG said yesterday was fully correct.

This is futile.

[mat on 27.04.05 at 10:52]

onion,

okay, people with any common sense on this site know that the reporting at the royal gazette is suspect from time to time. people get mis-quoted, stories get blown out of proportion...blah blah blah...take everything that paper says with a grain of salt.

my issue with this whole thing comes down to public conduct. conduct yourself properly and this whole event would never have occurred. how many people have interviews with the police after landing in bermuda? probably not many. the way i see it, where there is smoke, there is usually fire. blame it on escalated tensions, attitude problems, a bad day, whatever. just don't play the fricking race card. as a member of government, you should lead by example and take care of a situation properly, diplomatically. that definitely wasn't done here or we wouldn't be talking about it in this forum.

anyhow, thats about all i have to say here. hopefully you and jake can see where i am coming from.

[Two Cents on 27.04.05 at 10:54]

Has anyone else noticed that post 9/11 the TSA has basically given the airlines a licence to treat their customers like crap, and should there be any complaints regarding treatment it can be all explained away by saying it was a "Security Precaution" or "In the interest of Security". I have heard or read several incidents of this happening especially to Non-US Citizens (male)

[jake on 27.04.05 at 11:34]

Bill Cook,

I do not hate all English people because of one incident. The guy at the hotel in London was not even English, but even if he were, I am able to make distinctions between people.

I had many good times in London, and I consider it a home away from home. The incident did make me more aware of how I need to keep my responses in line at all times.

I will grant that Randy could have better handled the situation, but I excuse neither the steward, nor the Gazette for its reporting.

Randy is a good man, wolf. As are many others in the PLP. I grant you they do not have the franchise on good people, but they are - today - better than the UBP cronie options.

If you want to present a better alternative I suggest you bring back the NLP and suggest good policy. It will not happen over night. It took the PLP 30 years.

[Fire on 27.04.05 at 11:45]

Mat,

You make a lot of assumptions. First of all, I can accuse anybody of anything and the police may still conduct an interview. I can hit someone else's car on the road and then I can be the one who calls the police. Does that mean I am innocent and the person I hit is guilty?? Yes, an accident happened. But it may not be clear who innocent party is.

If this steward was accused of racism there is nothing to suggest the steward did not conduct a "pre-emptive" strike by calling police so HE would not be fired. "Put the shoe on the other foot so I can be seen as the victim."

It amazes me how some of you guys just LOVE to jump on certain stories about PLP ministers regardless of the factual content (or lack thereof).

I fear that whites and blacks on this island will always view scenarios differently.

[denning on 27.04.05 at 12:01]

I was more than a little suspicious of the account of the incident in the RG. I just couldn't quite believe that I was hearing the whole story. The whole "do you know who I am?!" business seemed scripted to me, like a scene from a bad sit-com where the lowly hero humiliates some stuffed shirt jackass. I confess though, that some small part of me wanted to believe the story. Not because Mr. Horton is black though. Because the mean, petty, jealous part of me likes to hear stories about snooty people getting their comeuppance. Still, I didn't bite on the story because Mr. Horton seems to me to be an honourable man (and not snooty at all, although I don't know him personally). From the sounds of it, there may indeed be two sides to this story so I guess I'll have to wait for a better target to do something outrageous that will make me feel superior... ;-)

[Fire on 27.04.05 at 12:08]

Denning,

That is a fair statement.

[shipstones on 27.04.05 at 12:10]

Guilden,
"George Bush is not above my ridicule so I am damn sure Randy isn't!"

So what you are saying is that George Bush is more important than Randy Horton and deserves a greater level of respect.

No I am saying it doesn't matter who you are I will ridicule you if you do dumb things. How do you get your conclusion regarding respect from what I said? What are you trying to say?

Jake,
I didn't comment on Randy per se, I commented on you and your reasoning for Randy's actions whatever they were. You jumped to the conclusion that Randy may have felt treated badly because of the colour of his skin.
A huge leap for Jake or Randy to make.

[Martin on 27.04.05 at 12:32]

Terry has it bang on...

Worth remembering that...

"We could learn a lot from crayons. Some are sharp, some are pretty and some are dull. Some have weird names, and all are different colors. but they all have to live in the same box".

[big bad wolf on 27.04.05 at 12:38]

Heah the big new Airbus has just taken to the skies....the plane is huge and can fit bars and beds ect...maybe if we ever get this plane flying from the UK it will help to mellow flights out. Anyway its time to exit this thread as nothing will come out of it other than more of the verbal garbage that has already been exchanged....Up Up and away to infinity! Buzz ^..^

[Turtle on 27.04.05 at 12:43]

Reading Limey's initial post and following reactions on the thread and the reports in the Gazette on Mr. Horton's encounter with the steward on AA and his subsequent interview with the police has been an educational process for me.

Why? Because I seldom get to hear the honest opinions of both black and white Bermudians engaged in debate. Most often these debates are played out in a forum such as a public meeting, or in the local media. Both of these are situations which are likely to be significantly distorted, by editing and the editor's agenda in the case of the media; or by self-editing, interruptions, or the chair's agenda in the case of public meetings.

I believe many Bermudians, black and white, are in the same position I am in. That is to say that the real thoughts, opinions and feelings of those on the other side of the racial divide are largely unknown when it comes to controversial issues. What each group thinks about the other is a combination of personal experience, media stories and almost mythical rumours and beliefs.

As far as Mr. Horton is concerned, I have always had a great deal of respect for him from my knowledge of his achievements in sport and in education, especially as headmaster of Warwick Sec.

I was surprised to find out how easily this was jolted by the initial report in the Gazette. Reading the varying views of the situation on this thread has really helped me to think more critically and to be aware of the biases I have acquired during my life on the Rock to date.

So thank you Limey for running this site, and thank you to everyone who participates for continuing to post and honestly express your opinions.

Onion,

They only get upset when it happens to somebody whose opinion is the same as their's. When it comes to inaccurate reporting regarding the P