The Equivocator

I’m often amazed at Premier Alex Scott’s inability to say the right thing.

Following Opposition Leader Grant Gibbons’ call for stronger anti-corruption laws in the House on Friday, what the Premier should have said was:

“We agree with the Opposition’s concerns about the damaging effects of corruption and reiterate our commitment to ensuring all dealings of this Government are above reproach. Following the conclusion of the BHC investigation we said that Bermuda’s relevant laws might be looked at and modernised. I am pleased to announce that such a review is currently underway.”

Instead, he warned the Opposition that they had embarked on a dangerous campaign to taint the minds of the people, accusing them of “playing around” and “noising about”. He even fretted that such talk might taint other countries' views of Bermuda.

No, Mr. Scott, it’s your equivocal reaction to the Opposition’s call that’s going to do that.

Comments

[Adjustah on 27.06.05 at 06:57]

"Instead, he warned the Opposition that they had embarked on a dangerous campaign to taint the minds of the people, accusing them of “playing around” and “noising about”.

Hullo POT, this is KETTLE, 10-5, 10-30...

[ace on 27.06.05 at 07:06]

Wait a second...after the BHC investigation uncovered unethical, but not illegal, behaviour by ministers didn't Alex Scott say Bermuda will be updating its anti-corruption legislation? Did I dream that?

[Tiger Bay on 27.06.05 at 08:20]

We have a month to go before summer Parliamentary recess, and the amount of promised legislation still to be brought forward is staggering.

Grades:
Brash Bravado A.
Organisational Skills D.

[Martin on 27.06.05 at 08:45]

TB...

Conversley of course....Organisational skills A+ if you want to kill something off but be seen to promise.

[Tiger Bay on 27.06.05 at 09:53]

Sorry, Sneakiness is an extracurricular activity. Not eligible for class credit.

[Martin on 27.06.05 at 10:58]

Yes of course...why didn't I see that.

Must be Monday I guess.

[chuckles on 27.06.05 at 13:32]

Why am I not surprised to see this turn into a racial ordeal? Renee Webb stands up and states only because a Black Government was in power, was there talk of conflict of interest and corruption. My question is this, IF the UBP was in power and the BHC scandal had happened and the berkley fiasco happened and a white ministers relative got preferential housing treatment would not the PLP stand up and make the same statements? Would it not have been prudent for the PLP to say that while we believe there has been no instances of corruption it is in Bermuda's best interest to introduce stringent anti corruption laws.

[vladimir on 27.06.05 at 13:38]

Scott et.al want to kill the goose that laid the golden egg -- of course tourism was dying back in the old UBP Day and they did absolutely zero about it -- UBP needs solutions not a promise to a return to a day that saw Bermuda already beginning to go downhill -- And, the alternatives need to be laid out starkly -- Scott and his cabinet want Bermuda to aspire to be another Antigua or St. Vincent -- they love going there because unlike other countries they are feted as visiting royalty -- see what it is like for an average visitor in those pig stys --

[lickinalong on 27.06.05 at 14:15]

If you are looking for a reason why Bermuda should not go independent at this time, this is it! How can you trust politicians who clearly are not interested in good government. Anti-corruption legislation is a no-brainer, unless that is you want to be currupt and not be held accountable. Seems like the PLP are quite comfortable to have their actions labelled "unethical but not illegal". I guess they know that such legislation would make their actions illegal and result in charges and possible prison terms if convicted. Makes you wonder what other "unethical" and probably corrupt activities have yet to be unearthed.

[Pitts Bay on 27.06.05 at 14:29]

It is that age old phrase.

"Justice must not only be done, it must been seen to be done"

Alex Scott and his government (or I guess his Cabinet), do not appear to understand!!

[ruby tuesday on 27.06.05 at 14:37]

Well said that man.

The central tenets of mature representative democracy are accountability and transparency. The current administration barely even pays lip-service to these principals such is their cynicism. The self dealing and hostility to even the mildest scrutiny is repugnant. The expectation that local media should be anything other than a cheer leader for the administration would shame a former Soviet Republic.

To be honest I do not blame Scott entirely despite his obvious accountability phobia as from meetinig with him it is apparent he is not particularly bright and struggles with the simplest of concepts - a view confirmed to me last year by a former colleague who is now at the FCO.

What intrigues me is that he is not held in contempt by more Bermudians - is this an inherent conservative streak coming to the fore or does it simply represent an ambivalence towards politics?

[Martin on 27.06.05 at 15:50]

"Is this an inherent conservative streak coming to the fore or does it simply represent an ambivalence towards politics"?

Maybe it's just an electorate that will not have the UBP back in power - at any price.

Scott is without doubt a political and intellectual lightweight as Ruby says - but it suits Brown et al to have him there, in the same way as it's suits many Bermudians to have the PLP in power rather than the UBP.

[Prospero on 27.06.05 at 15:55]

"What intrigues me is that he is not held in contempt by more Bermudians - is this an inherent conservative streak coming to the fore or does it simply represent an ambivalence towards politics?"

More of the latter than the former. No one ever really pays enough attention to politics in Bermuda until they feel a hole beginning to burn in their pocket -- and realise the cause is political. Either tax hikes or the impact of a contracting economy. Then everyone is all for throwing the rascals out. But until a political problem incinerates their pocketbook, they don't want to know what's going on ... Christ, if anyone gave Alex Scott and this motley crew of his five minutes of serious thought, they couldn't help but come to the same conclusions as you ...

[chuckles on 27.06.05 at 15:58]

What intrigues me is that he is not held in contempt by more Bermudians is this an inherent conservative streak coming to the fore or does it simply represent an ambivalence towards politics?

Could it possibly be that people are afraid to speak there contempt? If black people speak of contempt and the government fails then could it be construed as black failure? And if white people speak of it and the government fails then would it be construed as political racism?

[jake on 27.06.05 at 16:37]

I think you guys are giving yourselves too much credit and have short memories. There were allegations of corruption under the UBP - Tynes Bay Incinerator anyone?

There were contruction debacles: Sea Land (owned by three Govt. Ministers, no less) being bailed out, building the Stonington campus for example? The airport, the National Stadium?

Let's not forget the members of the UBP who were actually tried and CONVICTED in a court of law: Vaucrosson, Madeiros, the fella who was heading the BMA when he was caught illegally taking cash out in a suitcase?

Not to mention the allegations that Colin Coxall made about senior UBP members (which allegations by the way I think were rubbish).

The UBP's stance on this issue is pretty amazing considering their past.

All that being said, WE NEED THAT LEGISLATION!

For two reasons: to convict the guilty, and to acquit the innocent.

I hate seeing the conclusion that BErmuda is a corrupt jurisdiction bandied about when in reality it is not the case. We have isolated incidences, like any country, but we do not have a systematic governance based on graft.

We have a largely honest (if not efficient all the time) civil service.

[desperado on 27.06.05 at 17:21]

There were not just allegations of corruption under various UBP Governments, Jake, there were cast-iron examples of graft, kickbacks and cover-ups. You listed some of them. And don't forget the PLP was first elected in 1998 in large measure because of the anti-sleaze plank in its election platform -- the promise to conduct public business in the "sunshine of public scrutiny" was a direct reaction to the UBP's failure to do just that, particularly during the dying days of its administration. All the more reason people like me are disappointed that corruption, croneyism and kickback-ism have become entrenched so quickly in the highest echelons of this Government. At least there was some degree of accountability for the scandals that occured on the UBP's watch. That's not the case today. Instead all we get are cover-ups (the BHC scandal) and denials that anything untoward has even taken place (the Berkeley Institute construction project). Like you I think we need updated legislation to clear the innocent and convict the guilty. Unlike you I think wholesale corruption is more pervasive in political circles than a lot of people seem willing to concede. Sad but true.

[chuckles on 27.06.05 at 17:39]

I think you guys are giving yourselves too much credit and have short memories. There were allegations of corruption under the UBP - Tynes Bay Incinerator anyone?

Did the PLP stand up and cry foul? Did they bring this to everyones attention? I would certainly hope so BUT in the same light they can't complain about the UBP doing the same thing.

There isn't government on this earth that hasn't had their fair share of corrupt deals and kickbacks and every time the opposition has brought out the accusations for all to see.

The PLP should just embrace this legislation and it would probably die a slow death instead of making waves about the UBP slandering them.

Just once they should take the high road.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.06.05 at 17:43]

Jake,

"There were contruction debacles: Sea Land (owned by three Govt. Ministers, no less) being bailed out, building the Stonington campus for example? The airport, the National Stadium?"

Although you included the airport you forgot to mention that a Govt. Minister was also directly involve under the steel contract. You also forgot to mention the contractor bail out at Westgate.

[Two Cent Charlie on 27.06.05 at 17:47]

"He even fretted that such talk might taint other countries' views of Bermuda."

No worries Mr Premier. Dr Brown's got some pink tinted sunglasses that will fix that.

[Pitts Bay on 27.06.05 at 18:29]

I do not think that you will find many who will disagree about past practices of the UBP & the PLP. Not really up to standard.

It does no good to simply say - the UBP used to do it, so why are all the UBP people complaining now?

For the purposes of the here and now (and going forward) the PLP government should address the fact that there are some unsavory practices and put in place the legislation to (at least try) prevent these practices. To simply start whining achieves nothing and in my view is more embarassing than simply admitting that it is possible somethings may have gone wrong BUT WE ARE NOW WORKING TO ENSURE THAT IT CAN NOT HAPPEN AGAIN!!

Lets get on with governing rather than politics!!

[Electioneering on 27.06.05 at 18:33]

You must admit that the UBP is making the PLP look far more corrupt than reality. Not even a single minister was indicted on charges, but you wouldn't know it based on the flogging that the corruption horse has been getting. You'd think we were talking about the United States or some other country that routinely rapes the public purse.

[Pitts Bay on 27.06.05 at 19:22]

I don't know what "reality" is anymore with the current government. With some of the comments and attitudes coming out of Cabinet, who knows whats going on up there. "The world may never know"!!

[Martin on 27.06.05 at 20:42]

I see that this is (has) turning into the usual "they did" so "they can" etc.

As Jake rightly put it, isn't the point here that WE NEED THAT LEGISLATION?

When does the point scoring stop such that we just do what is right?

[jake on 27.06.05 at 20:47]

Pitts Bay,

I was waiting to fpr someone to come forward with the "don't bring up the past" defense.

How can I not? The same party feigning rightious indignation is the party of sleeze: the UBP.

Let's put this in another context. Each of us was willing to disbelieve Ahad in his allegations against Sean O'Connell because Ahad had a clear example of falsehood in his very qualifications, and O'Connell 29 years of flawless service. The fundamental reason is this: credibility.

Now we have a party riddled with scams, crime and theft - and they are the ones raising the corruption flag. It is catchy. It is just like the allegations that drove Jennifer Smith out of PLP leadership - drunk on power and drunk on champagne - catchy with little substance.

We have a party of charlatans spouting flim flam daily, and the PLP - to their discredit - help out by not turning on the light of honesty.

I may be pissed at the PLP, but I am not going to forget the acts of players - MANY OF WHOM REMAIN IN THE FOREFRONT OF THE UBP - who brought such dishonour to the gentle practice of politics.

Jeffrey Dahmer cannot deliver a lecture to me on the sanctity of life.

Simple.

[ace on 27.06.05 at 22:20]

"dishonour to the gentle practice of politics"

LOL

That one just rolled off the finger tips eh Jake?

Goodness.

The Man is gonna be contacting you soon to help him write some speeches and stuff.

;-)

;-)

[Luthor on 27.06.05 at 22:25]

For those of us who don't know what are the specifics behind the prison, the airport and other corruption scandals under the UBP? Who were the people responsible and are they still involved with the UBP?

I am only asking this because I have heard a lot of rhetoric on both sides about corruption but no one ever seems to name names or get specific!!!

We all know about what's going on under the PLP but if there are people in the UBP who have been involved in corruption in the past I want to know about it!

[Silent Majority on 27.06.05 at 22:36]

....what I find depressing about the Bermuda of today is that despite the strong and resiliant economy, Bermuda has very significant socioeconomic problems that are getting much worse and more complex and the government just fuddles around...I shudder to think what would happen here if the economy turned south.

The government needs to show some decisive leadership and provide real solutions to these dire issues rather than weak, pre-packaged flotsam like the social agenda...can anybody honestly argue this administration has tangible plans to mitigate key issues such as affordable housing, reduce crime or to diversify the economy? If they do,lets see it, am tired of hearing the BS about "something just around the corner."

Not a fan of the UBP by any means, they have more than their share of jokers, but I can't see them doing a worse job than this present bunch of amateurs. Am the only one tired of the government's act that attempts to discredit critism by rambling, illogical press statements...if they chose to respond at all....? This place could would be better served by having a strong mayor and a small, accountable city council than this ineffectual parliamentary system now in place.

It really is quite depressing to see Bermuda going down the proverbial tubes while the government just denies problems exist...how can Bermudians not protest against this terrible performance, for gods sake show some backbone and character, it seems that scandals, ineffectual decision making and lack of action has no political consequence in Bermuda...its no wonder the younger generation is demonstrating anti-social behavior, they know they have no chance here.

[desperado on 27.06.05 at 22:50]

"It really is quite depressing to see Bermuda going down the proverbial tubes while the government just denies problems exist...how can Bermudians not protest against this terrible performance, for gods sake show some backbone and character, it seems that scandals, ineffectual decision making and lack of action has no political consequence in Bermuda..."

Very well said indeed. I am not a zombie-like supporter of either the PLP or the UBP. I can see virtues -- and flaws -- in both political parties. And altho' I never thought I would admit it in public, even the meltdown-era UBP (circa 1995-1998) is starting to look one helluva lot better than the confederacy of money-grubbing dunces we now have running Bermuda's Government. This is not a black thing. This is not a white thing. This is actually an integrity thing.

[Andrew on 27.06.05 at 23:50]

Jake,

I don't for a moment believe that the UBP can, with anything resembling a straight face, act as though their record in this regard is spotless. It isn't.

It bothers me far more, however, that the PLP's record is becoming nearly indistinguishable from the UBP's.

I'm sure there are incidents in your party's history that you regret, as there are in mine. I think we can both agree, however, that lessons must be learned from such mistakes.

The temptation to dismiss the 'New' in the New UBP as a not-too-convincing exercise in sloganeering is overwhelming. But I don't believe it's completely inaccurate. Most of those who earned the UBP a reputation for self-dealing and quasi-corruption (we mustn't use this word too lightly) have either died or moved on. I challenge you to produce evidence to the contrary.

I must admit I scoffed when the PLP began lecturing the UBP for not changing their leader after the 2003 defeat. And I understand, somewhat, your reluctance to listen to the UBP in this matter.

Let's take the UBP, however, in its official capacity as the Opposition. It is their duty to bring such matters to the fore.

Their time in Opposition has been expiation for the UBP. I don't know how long they will be made to suffer. But I think some, including the Premier, need to stop acting as though the PLP gained office yesterday. They've had plenty time to correct their own mistakes, and have little right to criticize the Opposition for assisting.

We mustn't forget history, but we shouldn't dwell on it.

And while we're at it Jake, I do take exception to 'the party of sleaze'. They weren't perfect, far from it. But this was the party of Scopes, Ratteray and others - most of whom were honest, decent men whose memories deserve far better than your partisan insults.

[jake on 28.06.05 at 00:10]

Andrew, whos is Scopes?

I am a PLP supporter, but the whole point of my comments was not to give insults, but to show you exactly how I feel when commentors here wrap the entire PLP membership into the actions of a few. It is ok to condemn us in group, but when I do it it inflames you? Good. It should. I should not do it either as there were good and bad in the UBP.

There were indeed some honourable people in the UBP. I will SHOUT THAT FROM THE ROOFTOPS!

I would call Harry Soares, Harry Cox, Sir David Gibbons, Sir John Swan, Gerald Simons even Grant Gibbons I think is an honest man. I won't bother naming the people that I think were morons.

So let's start there.

I would like you to reciprocate. Take the bold step and name the people you admire in the PLP.

[Electioneering on 28.06.05 at 07:09]

Let's have a top ten list of corruption examples in the PLP. Anyone up for a little litmus test of how accurate the UBP's characterisations are? We'll take the list and place it next to countries like USA, UK and Zimbabwe. What Ministers and Govt Officials have been charged or investigated so far? How much money are we talking about, and how different are they from the guilt free United Bermuda Party?

[Tiger Bay on 28.06.05 at 08:44]

Wrong is an absolute. Making comparisons of wrongness doesn't help right them.

[sleepy on 28.06.05 at 08:51]

I'd add Jack Sharpe, John Stubbs, Jim Woolridge, ET Richards, Gloria McPhee, Sir Henry Tucker, Hackie Davis, Pamela Gordon and others to your list of great UBP members.

[jake on 28.06.05 at 10:49]

Thanks Sleepy,

From your contribution can I assume that you are a PLP person listing the UBP people you admire?

If not, perhaps you do not see the point of my invitation. It is for people on the other side to give recognition where it is due. That way we can both stop our blanket statements about what the PLP are and what the UBP are.

[sleepy on 28.06.05 at 11:17]

I wasn't responding to any invitation. Just pointing out some great Bermudians.

[ruby tuesday on 28.06.05 at 11:26]

Minors - competent and genuinely interested in her job.

Errrr thats it.

[jake on 28.06.05 at 11:44]

This is a prime example of why I cannot vote UBP.

You people can only see your own value and see no value in anyone else.

Enjoy the Opposition.

[Turtle on 28.06.05 at 12:44]

I have always sat on the fence and split my vote so I'll mention a few from each side that I admire.

From those that have now passed on: John Stubbs, Jack Sharpe, and Eugene Cox are the tops for me: Men of integrity, ability and genuine concern for the future of Bermuda and Bermudians of all kinds.

For the present, I find it harder to find people in either party that match up to Stubbs, Sharpe and Cox. But I admire Neletha Butterfield enormously, as well as Paula Cox, Michael Dunkley, and Trevor Moniz. As for the rest of them - it's difficult to know.

[Smitty on 28.06.05 at 12:53]

We'll enjoy the Opposition.
I hope the PLP enjoys the money along with the alarming Crime Rate, Drug Problems and NO Tourism.
Great Job!

[Andrew on 28.06.05 at 13:08]

Jake,

Sorry, I am reading a fascinating book about the Scopes Monkey Trial and for some reason I confused him with Dr. Stubbs. But there are others too. Cox, Gibbons, Sharpe, Richards, Tucker etc...most of whom you've listed.

From your party I respect Mr. Wade, Mr. Butler, Dame Louis Brown Evans, Mr. Horton and both Coxs.

I have never, never allowed the actions of a few to diminish my respect for these men and women. All are fine Bermudians. Nor will I ever criticize the entire party based on the actions of a few. I will however, without regret, criticize this Government for the actions of a few. This Premier's response to this proposal is a prime example.

I listened to most of the debate on Friday. The three PLP members who spoke on the matter gave the greatest testament to why this party should not be in power. I'd imagine those that came before the present cast would be ashamed to see what they would have on Friday.

Yet, praising those who we admire will never raise their virtues from the grave, and dancing on the memories of those we don't we'll never free us of their vices. It is the responsibility of the electorate to send to Parliament men and women who can resist the temptations of power, while using it to better the community.

I was truly ashamed of my Government on Friday. Not because they're not my party, and not because the party I support took the opposite position. But because they simply did not have the courage to do what is right.

[Pitts Bay on 28.06.05 at 13:11]

Jake - you missed the point. I never stated that the UBP were innocent, but that does not justify carrying on in the same vein.

The point of my post was that we all know that things have gone awry in the past, be it UBP or PLP. There was a motion put forward to introduce anti corruption legislation, but the current (well only two PLP ministers made a comment!!)government did not jump on the band wagon. Why not? They should have embraced this and run with it. They certainly would have scored more moral and political points by doing that rather than essentially denying that there is a problem.

[Two Cent Charlie on 28.06.05 at 13:11]

"This place could would be better served by having a strong mayor and a small, accountable city council than this ineffectual parliamentary system now in place." Silent Majority

Careful there I say. I'm running for "Benevolent Dictator" just as soon as I can get my armies together!

Actually a very valid comment from SM although I imagine it could only happen via Independence. Why not run Bermuda more as a major city and stop trying to be a country?
After all we're an island so no one's ever going to refer to us as a country.

[jake on 28.06.05 at 13:30]

Thanks Andrew,

That is a beginning.

Perhaps one day we will be able to combine the best of the left and the right to give a solid face to Bermuda's real problems.

Sad for the rest of you, who belong with those better left behind.

[sleepy on 28.06.05 at 14:33]

I long to reach Jake's level of enlightenment.

[Turtle on 28.06.05 at 14:43]

Jake -

I am sad that you feel the 'rest of us' are 'better left behind'. I am hoping to learn more about my fellow Bermudians' perspectives and about my environment so that I will not be left behind, but rather be part of our forward journey together.

I find your point of view and those of others on this site to be very useful and illuminating. It is a pleasure to break free from the usual and be able to hear the opinions of others I would not hear during my regular day. These are conversations worth having about what have been essentially taboo subjects between the races in Bermuda.

Your friend in the west end ~

[ruby tuesday on 28.06.05 at 14:49]

I'm not sure how one reaches the required level of enlightenment that Bro' Jake is seeking although I am reminded of Jeremy Hardy's observation of the Tories that "if they all came from the same village, you'd blame it on pollution".

[Two Cents on 28.06.05 at 14:57]

Sleeze sums it up quite nicely....

The UBP often made mistakes in their past, but I don't think that it stooped to the level of the PLP during & since the last election. The whole "Vote Yourself Back Onto The Plantation" was dispicable. I spoke to "PLP" supporters who said they were flown back to vote in the election, and even one guy who said the flew back his American girlfriend (so they could have a little vacation) to entice him to return to vote. I would challange anyone to give any evidence of any UBP actions that were as blatent as what the PLP has been upto. Granted it is the lesser of two evils ...but I'll still take the UBP thanks.

[question on 28.06.05 at 14:57]

i think everyone is just trying not to understand what jake is saying...

can't you all understand that putting our differences aside for the common good (emphasis on common good) is the best way forward?

i understand him perfectly well.

[jake on 28.06.05 at 15:23]

Two cents, either you didn't know, or have no memory at all, but the UBP were doing the same thing and have been doing it for years.

Perhaps the picture of Delay Robinson in the paper with a target sign has also slipped your memory.

And ruby, before calling me Bro' anything know that I am as qualified as you are (more?). Don't presume to describe me with a working class nomenclature that I do not use.

Sleepy, I gave a list of people who are not like me politically, that I could still admire.

You give people who are just like you that you admire. It pains me that I would even have to point that out to you, but that was the point.
What value would it add in this context to list the people that are just like me?

Part of learning is trying to see other people's perspectives and give respect where it is due. In my view some of that is well placed in certain corners of the UBP. If you as a white Bermudian cannot name one person other than Patrice Minors in the PLP who you would consider a contributor to society then it tells me that there is a block on your behalf.

When you learn how to do that, you will have reached my level.

[ruby tuesday on 28.06.05 at 15:48]

Jake darling - lets stick to decaff after luncheon shall we?

I am non-plussed as to what sort of qualifications you mean but if you are referring to the psephological quagmire that is Bermuda's polity then as a recent visitor to these shores than I bow to your greater "insight", although if we are talking about more formalized qualifications then I may just pip you to the post...

As a recent emigre from Albion I couldn't give a monkeys about what happened before I washed up here. If politicians are abusing the trust and the resources of the electorate then anybody has the right to hold their actions up to the light of scrutiny.

I think Bermudians are appallingly served by their elected offiicals - by and large the local electorate are intelligent, lucid and thoughtful and yet the government return the favour with cynicism and an overwhelming sense of entitlement, how much of this is due to history and how of this is due to personal shortcomings I do not know. I go back to a previous point - accountability and transparency are the fundamental tenets of a representative democracy - both are in short supply within the present administration.

I believe there are some able people within the cabinet. I think Minors is the only person to rise above the competent. Cox has a limited understanding of her brief but is clever enough to defer to her civil servants ( and in a dollar pegged economy she doesn't have to do much). Dale is a nice guy but like Brown has too short an attention span, although he doesn't have the grotesquely overinflated view of his own intelligence.

Yours in love bro'

Ruby

[sleepy on 28.06.05 at 16:07]

Your level Jake, is dull, arrogant and closed minded.

As you've previously indicated in other debates here, it isn't for others to decide what we can and cannot comment on.

To presume that you are entitled to drive the discussion and set the parameters for discussion is the height of arrogance.

But your self-righteous conceit is your trademark.

[Fire on 28.06.05 at 16:22]

Two Cents writes:

"I spoke to "PLP" supporters who said they were flown back to vote in the election, and even one guy who said the flew back his American girlfriend (so they could have a little vacation) to entice him to return to vote. I would challange anyone to give any evidence of any UBP actions that were as blatent as what the PLP has been upto. Granted it is the lesser of two evils ...but I'll still take the UBP thanks."

I accept the challenge. I was personally flown back from university by the UBP in 1993 for the GE because they assumed I would vote for them. Interestingly, I saw a bunch of other UBP students at the airport that same weekend. Hmmmmmm. Any other challenges you have for me?

[sleepy on 28.06.05 at 16:28]

Jake says: 'Perhaps the picture of Delay Robinson in the paper with a target sign has also slipped your memory.'

Pamela Gordon was horrified by that ad. You don't seriously think their campaign wanted that do you?

Fire:

Yes both parties have flown students back. I don't really have a problem with that, although it's pretty inefficent and imprecise as you point out.

I'd prefer we just put absentee balloting in effect to end that nonsense. Strangely that's another progressive move that the PLP have strangely avoided but the UBP keep pushing for.

[Raptor on 28.06.05 at 16:57]

Jake encouraged us to find admirable politicians in both parties. I thought that was good.
I don’t get “sleepy” calling him so many bad names.
Ruby Tuesday has a sophisticated vocabulary (“psephology—the study of political elections”—I had to look it up). She’s a flame thrower for sure. Absolutely right that politicians’ actions should be held up to “the light of scrutiny.” There’s NO respect for an island/country without the willingness of a government to get to work and do that. “Accountability and transparency” are definitely lacking in the present administration. And the UBP has it faults too. Do we want it to get worse by not taking action? Voters should not stand for it. Get the laws strengthened; we’re nothing without a decent legal system, espescially at a time when we are scrutinized internationally more than ever before. Let's find all the politicans we respect and call them relentlessly until this stuff is fixed--both parties.
I don’t like being called Bro’, Darling, Dear or any of those things.
Seems to me we need updated laws to fight corruption. As has already been said, it’s a no-brainer.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 28.06.05 at 17:00]

Sleepy,

"I spoke to "PLP" supporters who said they were flown back to vote in the election, and even one guy who said the flew back his American girlfriend (so they could have a little vacation) to entice him to return to vote. I would challange anyone to give any evidence of any UBP actions that were as blatent as what the PLP has been upto."

First you make this statement, Fire meets your challange head-on than you back down for it by saying,

"Yes both parties have flown students back. I don't really have a problem with that, although it's pretty inefficent and imprecise as you point out."

What's the matter, can't accept that your challenge was met?

Every political party that is serious about winning an election will pull out all the stops in their efforts. It just appears to me that according to you if the UBP does it is ok but if the PLP do it it is corruption.

Politics is a dirty game and the bottomline is politicians around the world, including PLP and UBP politicians, look out for themselves and the interest of their party and supporters.

I recall when I was a member of Leaders of Tomorrow back in 1990/1991, there were certain positions that were open to me if I wanted them. I chose not to accept any jobs that were promised to me because that would mean that at some point in time I would have to return the favour, which I was prepared not to do.

So before you go off talking about the UBP has done nothing in comparison to what the PLP has done or is doing knwo the facts. The reality is that is politics. Parties try to entice the kinds of people they want by offering those people certain things. Is it corruption? Maybe but first and foremost it is about winning the government and keeping it.

[ruby tuesday on 28.06.05 at 17:02]

I'm sorry caller do you have a point?

[Two Cent Charlie on 28.06.05 at 17:03]

Sleepy Says:

"Yes both parties have flown students back. I don't really have a problem with that, although it's pretty inefficent and imprecise as you point out.

I'd prefer we just put absentee balloting in effect to end that nonsense. Strangely that's another progressive move that the PLP have strangely avoided but the UBP keep pushing for."

At who's expense are either parties flying people back and forth so they can vote? Taxpayers?
If that's the case then yes indeed it's a full barrel of "nonsense". The more I learn from this web site about politics in Bermuda the less impressed I am with our political process and it's players.

[sleepy on 28.06.05 at 17:12]

Ok, one by one here.

Guilden: take a breath for a second ok. I didn't criticise the PLP for flying back students or call it corrupt. Someone else did. I said it's no big deal. They both do it. Relax. I thought it was better in the Bahamas?

2 Cents: Airline tickets would presumably have come out of the parties own election budgets, or some kind benefactor. If anyone used taxpayer money that would be reprehensible.

[question on 28.06.05 at 17:23]

"Your level Jake, is dull, arrogant and closed minded." -sleepy

I think you are the narrow-minded one... trade in your bifocals and get a new prescription! YOU are the one that needs to look @ the broader spectrum...that is what jake was asking us to do.

[jake on 28.06.05 at 17:36]

sleepy,

I would concede that Pam would have been horrified. I would like to add Dame Pamela Gordon to my list of UBP people I like.

No I do not think it was part of the campaign, and I will accept that the plantation thing was part of the PLP campaign, but it was not an idea that was canvassed with the membership or even the leadership in a wide sense. It was stupid and that is why it hangs over us to this day. The point is, that we have both done stupid things in the name of election success. I concede that we have. Few people here will do so.

Ruby,

I agree with your comments on corruption - I actually endorse the need for corruption legislation. What I don't like is use of the term "bro" because I am black - which I am giving you the benefit of the doubt over and saying it is because so many PLP people are working class or union affiliated. I am neither, but a supporter of the PLP. I am a professional - just like you.

I had this same discussion with a buddy from the Airforce. He felt bad because we had watched a diversity video where people were referring to the black men as the "brothers". He used to call me brother all the time. I told him - I knew the context in which he meant it (military) and that he called the white guys in the armed forces alumni club the same thing. He had nothing to apologise or feel sorry for. In this context however, I am suggesting that your use of Bro' Jake is to liken me to Bro' Otti - a title that is appropriate for the President of a Union, but not for a finance professional, which you are and I am.

On the qualifications front, I am not too worried about comparing with you. We spend so much time on this site Ruby and we both bitch at each other - but are we that different, really? I am actually interested to know, but feel free to describe it in a way that continues your anonymity. What are your qualifications?

Promise to reciprocate.

[Two Cent Charlie on 28.06.05 at 17:48]

Thanks sleepy.

I guess you are right. Maybe I'm just getting a little too cynical. I never used to be. I wonder why these days I tend to go straight to thinking a political party or individual is always playing some sort of game.

I mean for instance, our Political leaders talk about anti-corruption and transparency yet as soon as they say they are going to do something to support that talk ie: create a position of Obudsman; they immediately make sure they themselves are immune. I'm sorry but that's no way to sell the concept of trust.

[Two Cents on 28.06.05 at 18:28]

Gilden,

Have you ever thought of entering the political arena ?? (yes Gilden I know that would involve moving home).

You seem like you have an excellent grip on politics in Bermuda and at the same time you debate very well without resorting to the "RACE" card which too many PLP supporters are too quick to play.

Until the PLP recruit some forwarding thinkers like you, they will never truly be representative of Bermuda as a whole.

p.s I remember you from Warwick Academy and I can't believe that the quiet guy, who always seemed to keep to himself and who never said "BOO" to anyone is you .

[vladimir on 28.06.05 at 18:30]

I se ethe PM is in ST. Lucia -- he gets treated like a tin horn leader there -- unlike visits to larger countries. These guys aspire to turn Bermuda into another St. Lucia or St. Vincent -- have the PM take a trip as an average Black person and let him witness what happens to him --
The UBP needs to clearly spell out that the PLP aspires to take Bermuda in this direction. Why? Who knows but it is sure a slippery and fast slope

[Tiger Bay on 28.06.05 at 19:37]

Damn, I never got a free ticket home. I bet they double counted that as an uptick in tourist arrivals too!

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 29.06.05 at 00:12]

Two Cents,

Actually, I went to Whitney not Warwick Academy.

My view on race is this. Using race to try to justify a position only weakens the position. Allowing yourself to succumb to the effects of racism is to tell yourself you are not worthy of success. My self-esteem is not determine by how others view me, it is determined by me knowing without a doubt that I can do whatever I set my mind to do. Also how can I use race to justify my position when I come from a mixed marriage. I am a product of both black and white.

At times I have given some thought to politics in Bermuda but the reality is that I am not overly enthused about any existing party in Bermudian politics.

I would like to see a party formed that would be fully committed to the betterment of Bermuda as a whole. A party made up of a broad spectrum of the Bermudian society where everyone's opinion matters and is considered before a decision is made.

The existing parties, in my view have to much baggage that they carry around and no matter how they try t get rid of it they can't. The two major parties are typecast into the roles they play. As much as they talk about change they will not change, not in the foreseeable future.

I agree with Jake that anti-corruption legislation is needed but it should only be a shell piece of legislation because we SHOULDN'T have to question the honesty and integrity of our leaders the way we do. We should be confident that they will take their duty and responsibility to the people and the country sincerely and make every effort to make the country a better place for all who live there, not just those who support "the party".

As I said earlier the way politics is in Bermuda is no different then it is anywhere else. The governing parties do favours for those that helped them win an election. Highly active supporters are given senatorships or in other jurisdictions some highly visible posts.

I believe in full transparency of government and that does not exist in Bermuda. By transparency I mean at all times acting in the best interest of the populous, make certain that the promise you make can be realised so that your deeds not your words determine your legacy. I believe the parliamentary sessions should be televised live. I believe if a Member of Parliament makes a mistake, which everyone of them has and will continue to make, he/she should have enough courage and respect for the electorate to stand up and admit the mistake was made, not blame someone else of divert attention elsewhere.

I think there should be more government consultation with the people of the country. How do you know what the people want if you don't ask them every once in a while? In a small community like Bermuda it is very easy to meet with the electorate. I would like to see annual report cards on the government of the day. Each year the people should have the opportunity to grade the performance of the government. I know each party regularly conducts polls but those results are used to determine party strategy in an effort to win an election not necessarily on the running of the country.

As I have said many times, I may not currently live in Bermuda but I care deeply for my country and its people. Ironically, I spend more time staying current on the affairs of Bermuda than I do on the affairs of the Bahamas. That is because the Bahamas is where I reside but Bermuda is my home.

I hope I have answered your question.

[Two Cents on 29.06.05 at 08:28]

Gilden...three quick points;

(i) Are you kidding me ?? Are there two guys named Gilden Gibert (I one I knew went to W.A and would be around 38-39)

(ii) I'd vote for you !!

(iii) You should consider that move home; your party/country needs you....Well they need something

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 29.06.05 at 09:10]

Two Cents,

As far as I am aware there are only two persons with my name, me and my father. You got my age right but you got the school wrong.

Drop me an email maybe you know me from those days but outside of school.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

[Two Cent Charlie on 29.06.05 at 10:06]

"Politics is a dirty game and the bottomline is politicians around the world, including PLP and UBP politicians, look out for themselves and the interest of their party and supporters."

"So before you go off talking about the UBP has done nothing in comparison to what the PLP has done or is doing knwo the facts. The reality is that is politics. Parties try to entice the kinds of people they want by offering those people certain things. Is it corruption? Maybe but first and foremost it is about winning the government and keeping it."

Posted by: Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. | 28.06.05 17:00

Guilden,
Before you got my vote you would have to clarify the above statement posted earlier. Are you condoning the use of corruption as an enticement?

[ruby tuesday on 29.06.05 at 10:08]

Jake mon chere - I meant no discourtesy with the bro' prefix. I am black (ish) and come from a very working class/ socialist background where such nomenclature are common place and meant with respect. You are one of the few that elevate this mong board above the functionally illiterate and the pompous self-obsessed windbags (I'm looking at you Mr Bahamas).

Peace out

Ruby M.A.(Cantab), M.Sc, Ph.D

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 29.06.05 at 10:22]

Two Cent Charlie,

I do not condone corruption at any level, political or otherwise. I was merely pointing out what political parties around the globe do to entice people "quality" people to join.

Please show me where I was condoning anything.

Further, as far as your vote, I do not recall asking for anyone's vote. I never said I would be running in any election.

Ruby,

You are entitle to have whatever opinion of me you so choose. if you think I live my life based on what you or anyone else thinks of me you are highly mistaken. Just because you don't agree with what I say does not mean I will not say it.

You talk about pompous, you get up on your high horse calling the electorate in Bermuda ignorant because they elected a party (on two occasion)that you do not support. Obviously you believe the world revolves around you and your opinion. I hate to burst your bubble but...

[Smiths on 29.06.05 at 10:26]

.........but............POP!!!

Bubble burst.

[ruby tuesday on 29.06.05 at 10:29]

as if by magic...

Guilden - being disenfranchised I have no alleigiance to either party. As I may have said before, I believe the Bermudian electorate to be lucid and thoughtful but are repaid for this with cynicism.

It's not all about you darling.

[Two Cent Charlie on 29.06.05 at 10:43]

Guilden,

A clarification is just that. Not necessary to get too defensive here my friend.
When someone writes: "Is it corruption? Maybe but first and foremost it is about winning the government and keeping it." It sounds a little bit like corruption is an acceptable practise to get what you want.
This site is for open debate and should you ever choose to come back to Bermuda and run for office, bear in mind your words will be here for all to consider.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 29.06.05 at 11:09]

Ruby,

I seem to recall asking you directly if you thought the Bermudian is electorate was ignorant because they had choosen the PLP, your response was a simple, "Yes"

Two Cent Charlie,

Firstly, I realy have no desire for frontline politics, however, I guess you can never say never.

As far as my comments being here, there or anywhere else for all to consider that is fine with me because I stand behind whatever I say. Sometimes I may say some dumb things at times but I won't ever deny anything I have said.

If I did ever decide to return to Bermuda and to enter the political arena the only thing I can be judged on is my character. I think political office has much to do with trust and many, if not most politicians in Bermuda have breeched that trust because very few have truly had shown that Bermuda and its people come first.

[jake on 29.06.05 at 11:19]

Ruby,

Interesting.

I will lighten up and not be so sensitive about the term, although my family who are actual Master Craftsmen, would laugh in my face if I claimed their trades.

Bro' Jake
RMA Sandhurst, LLB(Hons), MBA, Barrister

[lickinalong on 29.06.05 at 12:26]

I think you guys are suffering from the British disease where the number of letters that you have after your name determines your self worth! What a lot of crap. I know highly educated people who collect degrees and are fundamentally stupid and people who are hardly educated in the formal sense who are really smart.

[ruby tuesday on 29.06.05 at 12:34]

Couldn't agree more - compared to most of my family I'm dumber than a bag of hammers.

[lickinalong on 29.06.05 at 12:39]

I think the PLP is reluctant to bring in anti-corruption legislation because they feel that it is their turn to get the unethical perks of office. The UBP had 40 years of sticking their hands in the cookie jar and the PLP feels that the same is due to them. That's why whenever this issue comes up PLP supporters start pointing their fingers at the UBP and make the point that these issues were not raised aggressively when the UBP was in power. It is really all a case of "our turn" politics. In the meantime the electorate on the whole has moved along and really would like to see stringent controls put on politicians and their abuse of power.

Guilden and Jake, as PLP supporters you have leverage to push this issue. I know that the PLP will not listen to me. If you believe this legislation is needed then start lobbying.

[Two Cent Charlie on 29.06.05 at 12:57]

"I think political office has much to do with trust and many, if not most politicians in Bermuda have breeched that trust because very few have truly had shown that Bermuda and its people come first."

Posted by: Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. | 29.06.05 11:09

Amen

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 29.06.05 at 13:46]

Lickinalong,

You make a very good point. I guess its a little frustrating to hear UBP supporters chastise the PLP for doing the same things the UBP did and the same people complaining now never opened their mouths when the UBP was doing it. It just seems a little hypocritical to me.

That being said, you are indeed correct, just because one party does something untoward does not mean that another party should do the same thing and get away with it. Two wrongs do not make a right.

I think politics in Bermuda needs a great deal of maturing. Just because YOUR party does not win an election should not stop you from doing your part to make the country a better place. Instead of complaining offer solutions. It is one thing to be offer solutions in addition to criticism, it is another thing altogether to criticise simply because it is not YOUR party. Don't look at the offering of your solutions as assisting the party that is the government look at it as your civic duty to do what's best for your society.

This is what always concerned me when the PLP was in Opposition. I was chastise by some people for sitting on government boards under the UBP Government because I was "assisting" the UBP. I looked at it outside the realm of politics, as using those positions to try to make a difference in my country.

[Onion on 29.06.05 at 14:16]

Jake,

"Fall in Dettingen Coy!!!"

[Fire on 29.06.05 at 14:35]

Vladimir, your continual condescending, rude and dispectful comments regarding Caribbean countries, where many black Bermudians have roots, is annoying and does nothing for your argument. To say you don't want to take a route that they took is one thing. But to call them a dump as you have shows your ignorance. Bermuda also has a higher standard of living than the Azores. Will you call that a dump as well?

[jake on 29.06.05 at 14:37]

Lickalong,

Firstly, it is not a uniquely British disease.

Secondly, a degree from Cambridge or an Ivy League school is a sign of your accomplishment, not crap. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but in the real world where you went to school makes a huge difference in the opportunities you have open to you. If you would like to debate the financial implications of education with me I will happily line up the number of top tier university graduates and the number of people with no education (or minimum education) and we can compare how many fall into the higher economic bracket. Even the Bermuda Census data could reveal a local trend.

It is not a comment about self worth or value to society and the world, but education and wealth share a statistical significance which is not disproved by the people who have done well without an education.

Onion,

That will be one bottle of port for not addressing me as Bro' Jake or Sir.

[Onion on 29.06.05 at 14:38]

Jake. Sir. Not that ya prickin'!

[jake on 29.06.05 at 14:40]

That said lickalong,

I agree that the anticorrpution legislation is valuable. What right can any politician - PLP or UBP - claim to be corrupt? Zilch.

[Two Cent Charlie on 29.06.05 at 14:51]

" Instead of complaining offer solutions. It is one thing to be offer solutions in addition to criticism, it is another thing altogether to criticise simply because it is not YOUR party. Don't look at the offering of your solutions as assisting the party that is the government look at it as your civic duty to do what's best for your society."

There-in lies the Catch 22 of Bermuda politics.
Bermuda's politicians are part timers who have either investments or jobs in the private sector.
Making changes in laws and policies often can conflict with self interests. At the same time policy makers can be easily tempted to do things that directly or indirectly benefit themselves.

In my opinion, this is the resaon why the opposition witholds ideas for solutions until election years. It is also why people in general are reluctant to give good ideas and solutions as they feel someone's just going to make a buck off their creativity. I've seen it done too many times in Bermuda.

[m on 29.06.05 at 16:21]

jake says ~

"but in the real world where you went to school makes a huge difference in the opportunities you have open to you."

where is this real world you speak of?

m
MBA, PH.d and legend in my own mind

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 29.06.05 at 16:24]

Two Cent Charlie,

I understand your point and when it comes to the business world I wholeheartedly agree that one should be careful to whom he expresses his ideas because the person you express it to will e the same person to become financially successful off it.

I look at politics and the running of the county as being separate issues. Maybe I'm naive in that regard. Politicking to me is expressing your ideas or hanging out for all to see, what you have done successfully, simply to attract votes. Running the country is about proper and prudent management of the various sectors of the economy so that all citizens of the country can, with determination and drive, benefit economically and socially from this management.

There are many good ideas that have been taken by politicians as their own ideas and they have used them to their political success. I look at it like this, if I want recognition for my ideas, for say, future political reasons, than I will make certain that I express my ideas in a very public manner so that the electorate is aware of who came up with the idea and who should get the credit at election time. That approach to me is self-serving (politics).

Personally, if I have an idea that I think would benefit the country as a whole I am going to put it to the person (politician) who I think can best present and implement my idea. As long as it is implemented and it is benefiting the country I could care less who takes credit for it.

There were quite a few ideas taken by the UBP, which were actually PLP ideas. The one that comes to mind first is the 18 year old vote.

Again this is where political maturity comes in. The various parties should not hold ideas that could be beneficial for the country simply for the gathering of votes. They need to think first and foremost of what is best for the country. Holding back beneficial changes until an election is called is why there is very little respect for politicians, the world over.

[lickinalong on 29.06.05 at 16:27]

Sir Jake,
You are right that the search for status and position is present in other cultures but I find that the Brits often take it to a whole different level. They tend to love having an alphabet soup after their name. I shouldn't generalize but position, class and status are extremely important to the Brits. I can say that since I was born in England, lived there for 12 years and it took 20 years to knock it out of my thick skull.

It is good to be well educated from top class universities but a university degree is just a beginning. It opens doors but doesn't guarantee success. As far as I am concerned, the only place that qualifications really matter is on a cv.

Two Cent, traditionally the culture of politics in Bermuda has been to take advantage of the opportunities that political office affords. The PLP are following in the footsteps of the past and I believe have a sense of entitlement to these benefits. In that sense the PLP is less a break with the past than an embracing of the past. The New Bermuda is really a myth, it is really the old Bermuda with a darker complexion. There needs to be a cultural change in politics in Bermuda and I believe that change is emerging. The fact that the UBP were willing to focus on the corruption issue is a change. Time will tell if that is game-playing by the UBP or a sincere effort to change the rules of politics in Bermuda.

[jake on 29.06.05 at 17:45]

lickalong,

Agree 100%. Totally a beginning.

Ruby and I were just learning more about each other.

The "sir" bit was just a joke with Onion who I am guessing was in the army or visited Sandhurst.

I have not figured out how to get him to send me my port (whilst standing at attention) but as soon as I do I will be requesting it.

Personally I hate it when PLP members start to talk about entitlements. It is crap. We should be building businesses - jobs and opportunities - then you can have all the excess you want. No one (well some might) but right thinking people should not be pissed at that. what they hate is when they vote you into office to fix our problems and people are too busy fixing their own bank accounts. I don't think that is most PLP members at all - but one or two doing something dumb hurts the image of all.

"m"

The real world? Are you kidding?

Any top tier company will tell you they recruit at the top schools. It is the same in France as it is in Japan, India and the USA.

In Bermuda we see a fair share of people from less than credible schools who believe their qualifications are equal to those from top tier - only on the home front. Being Bermudian leads some to believe that whatever they present themselves with should be good enough.

In the real world companies will not hire you. I don't make these rules m, I am telling you what I observe everyday.

What I urge expats to do when they come to Bermuda is not to assume that every Bermudian falls into that category. Firstly, some had the talent to get into the better schools but did not know the difference (and were poorly served by guidance counsellers) and secondly because some have the very qualifications you have.

Bermudians do have to grow up in this respect, however. We do want to play the game for real, so step one is learning the rules.

Rule: Where you went to school makes a difference to the opportunities that will be open to you.

[m on 30.06.05 at 10:26]

jake says:

"Rule: Where you went to school makes a difference to the opportunities that will be open to you."

Rule: Who your parents know and what familty connections you have make a bigger difference in the opportunities available to you.

I still don't understand this real world you talk about jake. I am not trying to be a prick, but I just don't believe your blanket statements about education hold much ground.

[Tiger Bay on 30.06.05 at 11:17]

I think Jake's statements on education are accurate.

Family connections hold less sway in Bermuda than in the past due to the dominance of international business.

[lolo on 30.06.05 at 12:01]

M:

Pull your head out man...

Jakes statements on education are quite accurate.

[m on 30.06.05 at 13:17]

lolo says:

"Jakes statements on education are quite accurate."

what is quite correct anyway? is it correct or not?

in general i would agree with jake, but not wholeheartedly. there are many more factors than just education that play a role in the opportunities available to you.

thats all i am saying.

i still don't understand this concept of the real world either...

Tiger Bay says:

"Family connections hold less sway in Bermuda than in the past due to the dominance of international business."

Maybe they do, but they still play a role and that is what I am trying to say.
education does not equal instant success and opportunity. its just not that clear cut.

and education definitely doesn't equal common sense:
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=717522005

last time i heard there were a lot of accountants in bermuda.

[Two Cents on 30.06.05 at 13:17]

Almost sixty years ago, my father started work at small - medium size exempt company employed as Office Messanger / Errand Boy, he had no formal education (WWII put an end to his formal education).

Forward to 2005 my father is now managing Director /CEO of this same company. I have explained several times to him that it would be impossible for this same situation to take place in present day (he strongly disagrees).

I also agree with Tiger Bay (now that scares me)"Family connections hold less sway in Bermuda than in the past due to the dominance of international business." In my opinion this also holds true for seniority, once you reach a certain age, you reach the pinicle of value to your employer and are either phased out or held on until retirement.

[jake on 30.06.05 at 14:40]

I did not mean to imply that education was the only factor. Let's take a step back and re-read the context of my statement.

I am merely saying that there are more opportunities when you have the best education on offer. Whether your personal experience has exposed you to that or not does not invalidate it.

There are many people who can point to their experience and demonstrate that having or not having the credentials has or has not hurt them. We call them exceptions to the rule. Most circumstances will follow the rule, however.

International companies are not overly persuaded by family connections that are Bermuda based, but they will certainly take into consideration, those people whose backgrounds they are more familiar with.

We are finally becoming part of the real world in that we are competing with people based on skill and not nationality. I work with people from Africa (Ghana, Benin and Nigeria currently) India, Pakistan, all over Europe, China, and the Middle East. Top firms will get you permission to work wherever they need you - work permit stuff is just a technicality, really. All they care about is how smart you are and how hard you work.

When we catch onto that in Bermuda we will be better placed to compete. Remember these people are the best in what they do wherever they come from. They could care less about whether we think it is fair they make those salaries. Remember - they generate the income that provides those salaries. If they could not, no one would pay them anything.

Just like no one will pay us anything if we do not add value.

I am ok with that.

[Ironic BS on 30.06.05 at 20:45]

Work experience and connections has always trumped educational qualifications in most jobs, and ivy league educations are a part of the connection network. It's like a club that says more about your breed and bank account than your ability. Ivy league educations are more important to ivy leaguers than anyone else, just like Gucci sunglasses and Prada footwear.

From senior management to new recruits, only a handful of people at the top tier companies I've worked for have had an ivy league education (25 years in insurance). Even today I've seen plenty of my colleagues hire people for reasons that have nothing to do with what school they attended. The idea that connections play no large role in job hiring is laughable. If I don't like someone, I'm not going to hire them. So get experienced and get a proper attitude and you might have a chance. A crap school will get you nowhere, but a satisfactory school is all you need to reach the stars.

The last thing I need is a highly-paid ivy leaguer who spends my time and my money posting self-serving bunk on a website.

Rule: Get your arse on the work you were hired to do.

[James on 02.07.05 at 20:24]

Jake,
You mentioned near the beginning of this post, that we have a very honest civil service.

"We have a largely honest (if not efficient all the time) civil service"

Is this the same civil service that stole $3.6 million from immigration, stole 1.9 million from another deptartment. Stole bus tickets. And is not held accountable for their uncontrolable credit card spending?

Is that the honest civil service you are talking about?