Open Mike: Animal Cruelty

Another opportunity to talk about a subject of your choosing.

First comment sets the topic for debate.

Update: Simon asks: "Why does Bermuda treat its animals so badly?"

Comments

[Simon on 26.07.05 at 09:50]

Why does Bermuda treat its animals so badly?

[Bandit on 26.07.05 at 10:30]

I agree. I was the front page of the RG a couple of weeks ago. It showed a massive dead marlin. I thought the Bermudian fisherman had a measure, tag, photo and release scheme?

What did they then do with the fish? Is marlin now on the menu of every other resturant on Front Street? I doubt it, marlin is not the nicest tasting of fish. It has probably been taken back out to sea and dumped!

Having said that there is so little fish left in Bermuda's waters eating marlin is probably fair game these days!

[Point on 26.07.05 at 10:38]

The marlin was probably cut up and used as bait in order to catch more fish.

[Bandit on 26.07.05 at 10:53]

WHAT FISH???

The days of 600lb rock fish and schools of a thousand dolphin (mahi mahi) are long gone. Most of the commercial fishermen have sold up and moved to more lucrative trades like.... well anything really!!!

[JJ on 26.07.05 at 11:09]

I am not sure what the answer is to Simon's question. Is it perhaps cultural? I find it very disturbing how many Bermudians treat their dogs, leaving them tied up outside in all weathers, never exercising them, certainly not treating them as part of the family as I personally feel they should be. It seems a cultural thing in Bermuda to own large, aggressive breeds to appear powerful/manly. I guess sometimes there is a protection aspect to keeping certain breeds on your property.
Also, the prevalence of dog fighting is disgraceful in a civilised society.

[ruby tuesday on 26.07.05 at 11:21]

How about the inbred knuckle dragging Tupac wannabes with their suitably inbred pitbulls - is it not enough for them to drive around in their pathetic penis substitute tarted up hairdressers cars. Some kindly therapist should have a word with these people about over compensating.

[Fire on 26.07.05 at 11:24]

Ruby, that ex-boyfirend of yours still on your mind?

[SmokingGun on 26.07.05 at 11:25]

"It seems a cultural thing in Bermuda to own large, aggressive breeds to appear powerful/manly."

Big Mastif, Small Wiener.

[ruby tuesday on 26.07.05 at 11:33]

ha ha

You know it, Fire...

[Fire on 26.07.05 at 11:33]

:-)

[Swordfish on 26.07.05 at 12:02]

Not exactly the most exciting thread.

[Kate on 26.07.05 at 12:11]

The problem isn't just with large breeds, many smaller 'cute' handbag breeds are also ill treated. I have fostered (and adopted) 6lb dogs who have been either maltreated or neglected.

Many dogs bred here are substandard and so have a lifetime of health problems and pain. Some breeders will breed from sick dogs, dogs with hereditary joint problems and even brother with sister. There are people who import dogs in groups as puppies from the UK to sell. These dogs are very likely to have come from puppy mills as no reputable breeder will sell a puppy without knowing who is going to be its owner.

Very many of the carriage horses are not kept to adequate standards and are worked when it is far to hot and it is not unusual to see a lame horse going through the middle of town.

In addition there are the goats and rabbits kept in back gardens for meat, often in substandard conditions.

On top of this there are the dolphins! I remember dolphins being kept in captivity in the UK when I was a child but it has been illegal for many years now. It is not possible to provide a suitable environment for these large sea mammals.

When walking my dogs, travelling on the bus etc. I have spoken to many tourists and there is one comment that I hear more than any other and that is that they were shocked by the treatment of animals here.

[Kate on 26.07.05 at 12:20]

Having just seen Swordfish's comment I think that may explain a lot - people just don't give a flying fig!

[brit on 26.07.05 at 12:21]

Bermuda doesn't have a great reputation in the area of the environment either.
OT: The Belco fire, apparently, cooling oil from a transformer was burning. Transformers used to be cooled with PCB laden compounds...they were removed form eauipment due to their cancer causing properties.
Has belco stated what type of oil was burning?

[Swordfish on 26.07.05 at 13:02]

I love animals.

[The Limey on 26.07.05 at 13:08]

Simon - What prompted you to raise the subject? What are your thoughts?

[Simon on 26.07.05 at 13:35]

My reasoning was to try and get this topic out in the open more than it is.
I agree with everything Kate (I have to she's my wife!) and JJ say. I think it is a cultural issue that is deeply ingrained and as such will be very difficult to change without more support form the community at large. My wife, daughter and I volunteer that the SPCA and it is hugely evident that there is a major imbalance in the make up of the volunteers - you can probably count the number of Bermudian's who give their time to this cause on one hand. I'm sure people will say it is because Bermudians have to work two jobs and so don't have the time to give up in this way but I do not believe that is the only reason, expectations for animal welfare here are just too low. The SPCA have recently adopted a rule that they will not rehome dogs that are going to be chained up outside. You have to agree to the dog being a house pet and they have the right to make a follow up visit to check up. The legal requirements for a dog's welfare in Bermuda are pitiful and again I believe the SPCA are doing what they can to try to change this but it is a hard task for an organisation that is losing money month on month and rely to some extent on Governmental funds and as such can not afford to get too far on the wrong side of Government.

[Bill Cook on 26.07.05 at 14:31]

Simon,

Bermuda is not the best place for a dog in my opinion.

Ideally dogs need a lot of area to exercise with safety and so as not to inconvenience non dog owners on beaches parks and golf courses.

The climate is also hard on some breeds,I recall one owner who had a St Bernard with a particularly lovely temperament but they suffer in our heat.

Dogs require a lot of attention as they get sick have heath problems etc and lots of owners just think they are cute lovable creatures, but they are a responsibility and should not be owned by anyone not able or prepared to look after them properly.

As puppies they are cute but so are babies but both grow up.

Proper education in how to care for ones pets is what is needed.

In England esp in south they care for their dogs in my opinion very well.

Bermuda not so well but certainly better than Spain who treat animals generally badly.

[jake on 26.07.05 at 14:32]

I am not sure where to begin with Ruby's complaint about cars? Tupac?

Many Bermudians have dogs outside but the dogs have excellent treatment. Not everyone thinks an animal should be in the home. I don't. I don't support dog fighting either.

If the alternative to allowing my dog to be outside is that you will kill them, that suggests that you are being a bit over the top.

I don't see dogs as people. Sorry.

Let's also keep in mind that even reputable breeders are somewhat extreme. They will kill living animals for a "defect". If you are so humane why are you killing an animal that could be a perfectly suitable pet?

I'm just asking...

[Onion on 26.07.05 at 14:43]

Simon writes:

"My reasoning was to try and get this topic out in the open more than it is.
I agree with everything Kate (I have to she's my wife!) and JJ say. I think it is a cultural issue that is deeply ingrained and as such will be very difficult to change without more support form the community at large."

There are some cruel pet owners (eg. people fighting dogs and cocks for money) but I think Bermudians on the whole treat animals ok.

We don't go overboard for animals like in the UK. People won't come out to march in droves to protest if they introduced skink hunting in Bermuda. But, hey, they don't come out in droves when there is a housing crisis either.

[Onion on 26.07.05 at 14:47]

Wait wait, I lie. Remember once the RG had a photo of two lizards hanging by a piece of grass on the front page? About 1000 letters to the editor were written in protest.

[Simon on 26.07.05 at 14:47]

Whether you see dogs as humans or not is irrelevant. Dogs are social animals who live in packs and should not be chained outside and kept in solitude, they should live and interact with the rest of their "pack" ie the owners and their families. It is inhumane to treat them otherwise even if they receive adequate food water and shelter. I would be interested in understanding your idea of excellent treatment, since the floor for animal treatment here has been set very low by Government anyway. And why are the digs kept outside - to protect the house? Think again! A dog will protect its own territory which to a chained dog is pretty limited. It may make a noise if an intruder comes into the yard but once the dog realises his own territory is not in danger he will probably settle back down and go to sleep.

I would not support putting down these dogs but instead rehoming them to a family that will respect its needs. As for breeders who destroy an imperfect dog, I assume your use of "you" was not aimed at me. I abhor those actions too since as long as the dog is not suffering there is always someone who will give the animal a loving home.

[Onion on 26.07.05 at 14:52]

Simon, are you saying all dogs must be allowed to roam in packs? That'll work well in Bermuda.

[Simon on 26.07.05 at 14:54]

Onion, are you a politician? Read a sentence and interpret it in whatever way suits your argument!!

What I said was dogs should interact with their own pack - ie the family that owns them.

Your comment actually made me chuckle - I can just imagine the hysteria that packs of roaming dogs would cause here!

[Simon on 26.07.05 at 15:05]

Bill,

I agree with what you say - this is not the right place for dogs but given they are here then education on how to treat them is definitely needed. This should be done in schools via field trips to the SPCA or Windreach where the children can interact with the animals directly.

I would also say that Bermuda is not the place for horses either. It is sickening to see the state of some of the carriage horses working Front Street when the Ships are in.

[jake on 26.07.05 at 15:11]

I have no problem with a dog on a chain or in a kennel - outside of the house. Dog mess is very dangerous for children and even house trained dogs will make mistakes from time to time. They will also sit on furniture and in beds transferring their fleas and faeces all over the place. It cannot be helped. They are animals who know no better.

They can also be jealous of new childen brought into the family and can be a risk to them.

If you want a dog in your house - fine. I want mine in the yard. Still part of the pack but more like a play cousin.

[JJ on 26.07.05 at 15:20]

Jake says:
"Many Bermudians have dogs outside but the dogs have excellent treatment.........."
So it is a cultural thing. I just don't believe that leaving a dog chained up outside is "excellent treatment".
My opinion.

[Onion on 26.07.05 at 15:21]

Hey Jake, we're having a formal sit down dinner over my house. We'd love to have you and the pack over.

[Onion on 26.07.05 at 15:24]

Simon, I'm not trying to be funny. But according to you Bermuda doesn't seem to be the place for horses or dogs. So what should we do? Ban them?

[Bill Cook on 26.07.05 at 15:24]

Simon,

I am an animal lover I guess as always had my dog/dogs in Ireland and my dog Dan walked to school as a boy and met me after school to walk home, that was possible because in the country and on the farm there was space and little traffic etc.

You are correct when you say the dog needs to ineract with its owner it is a social animal and to just leave it there often chained up alone is perverse and cruel.

When I reflect how much joy and pleasure given to the lonely and elderly plus children by dogs
with total loyalty.

The way horses are treated also given the long history of service to man in the fields and transportation it is sickening the lack of appreciation.

Not forgetting guide dogs for the blind either.

If you cant look after a dog get a hamster and a barking dog recording.

[Simon on 26.07.05 at 15:31]

Onion,

I would ban the use of working horses, definitely. At the moment they are forced to work in conditions that are too hot and humid and are provided with inadequate shelter when they are standing on Front Street waiting for a fare. It would be impossible for the carriage drivers to make a living if they had to provide reasonable working conditions for their horses akin to what is required for the operators around Central Park.
As far as dogs are concerned, some dogs are not suited to the Island because of the weather and the restrictions on how they can be exercised. However, a change in the general attitude would make it a lot more pleasant for those that are here.

[JJ on 26.07.05 at 15:41]

I also question how enjoyable it is for the carriage riders these days with so much traffic, noise and fumes. Years ago a carriage ride around town was probably quite a pleasant way for tourists to see Hamilton. Not anymore. Not to mention how much they hold up other road users.

[Terry on 26.07.05 at 16:00]

Yah. I remamber back in the 1800's we had to push our donkeys and horses. It was soo hot and sweltering. The came along this thing with four sanded down squares and it killed the horses.
The dogs loved it. They could sit in the shade and chill.

NOW, the Camels, well they had to be sent to Zoo's all across the world because it was too hot here and in AFRICA.

Dog packs?

Come on guys, its all about ballance. Hell, we brought in the so and so to take care of the so and so, next came camilions(not the royal kind) to eat the musqitos, then the Kisskadees to eat the forementioned, then the rotweiler to eat the bad boy, then the PLP to eat the UBP.

Next you will be telling me that my Gold Fish must be airconditioned. I can't have a Cat if I own Guppies.

Common sense will prevail hopefully. Damn, my crossbred halfcat/dog/donkey just ran off. Better get the water hose out, so I can chase them down and bring them back to their home sweet home.

[LM on 26.07.05 at 16:02]

Dog and cock fighting? Not legal surely? Simon keep up the good work at the SPCA. Shocked at your revelations. I hate any cruelty to animals guess some education is whats needed.

[SmokingGun on 26.07.05 at 16:19]

Simon,

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. A lot of people check out The Limey and your subject is not only pertinent but relatively easy to do something about.
Hopefully tonight when people go home they might take two seconds to re-evaluate the true conditions they keep their pets under.

[jake on 26.07.05 at 18:27]

Onion,

Is that a real invitation?
Sounds good. When?

[artemis on 26.07.05 at 21:35]

I do believe that there are many dogs who are happier outside and better suited to being kept outside. Just because a dog is kept outside does not mean it needs to be kept on a chain (JJ) Sharing your living space (inside or outside) with another animal is a tremendous responsibility, whether it is a dog, cat, (or a hamster – Bill) The most important thing after adequate shelter, food and water, without a doubt, is the time spent interacting with the animal, particularly highly social animals such as dogs. I know people who keep dogs in cages (I personally do not feel that is an ideal situation for the animal), however, I have seen regular interaction during the course of a day with their owners & family members. I also know people who go to work at 7 a.m. and often do not return to the home until 7/8/9 p.m. 5 days a week and the dog is left on its own inside the house without any company for that whole period of time. Which situation is better?

I always get a little irritated at how so many people can jump on the “animal cruelty bandwagon”. Pointing fingers at others who fail to treat their animal companions in the same way as they treat their own "pets". However, at the end of the day those same individuals still go home and tuck into their veal/steak/chicken dinners etc etc. The greatest cruelty that goes on world wide is the living conditions and the slaughter methods of those very beasts that appear on the dinner plate. So not only do I hope that when people go home they re-consider the conditions their “pets” are kept under, I also hope they think twice about what they are having for dinner.

Onion … can I come too? I’ll bring my own veggie burger.

[Bill Cook on 27.07.05 at 11:00]

Veggie,

Its not whether or not the dog is kept outside or inside.

Its need is to be with people it can interact with, and if people are not going to be home most of the time they should re consider owning one in the first place.

My neighbours have an electric fence and the small dog has lots of room to run around plus there is usually someone around quite a bit as owners only work part time.

My English friends have both dogs in school to be trained and they are now no trouble but still need to be walked daily and properly fed too.

The owners are vegetarians but not all would want the responsibility which is why I no longer have pets.

I was a vegetarian by neccessity as their was no meat just vegetables eggs and milk etc. growing up and people were healthier,you are both wise and humane,congratulations.

[SmokingGun on 27.07.05 at 12:41]

"I also hope they think twice about what they are having for dinner.

Onion … can I come too? I’ll bring my own veggie burger. "

Posted by: artemis | 26.07.05 21:35

I'd rather choke on a steak than a string bean.

[Simon on 11.01.06 at 10:20]

Front page of the RG today - no need to say anymore other than what sort of scum does this?

[Full Fullish on 11.01.06 at 10:44]

That's just sick...if they find the bastard, they should do the same thing to him.

[Simon on 11.01.06 at 12:58]

I agree, but nothing will happen because no-one cares enough to make it happen.

It makes me so angry that there is so much cruelty here. It's not just direct cruelty such as this case but indirect as well in terms of dogs chained outside all day with little or no interaction. People need to see that this is wrong and Govt need to revise the laws on the minimum levels of care required for animals since this minimum care implicitly encourages cruelty. This is something that the SPCA committee needs to address but some of them are more concerned with the social stature of being on the committee of a charity to actually do something that is worthwhile with their position.