Belittling the electorate

I was looking forward to hearing what Premier Alex Scott would say to the representatives of Bermudians for Referendum (BFR) when they finally presented their petition to him today. The document, which contains 14,008 signatures, calls on the Government to hold a referendum on the issue of independence.

“Bermuda has a very intelligent public who understand the difference between a general election and a referendum,” said Khalid Wasi for BFR as he handed the petition over.

The Premier looked nervous, rubbing his hands together in front of him as Mr. Wasi spoke. At first Mr. Scott tried to be gracious, saying that the petition would act as a useful document in the future. And then he said this:

“Folks signed this and didn’t know what they were signing, but that’s democracy.”

In an instant, the Premier belittled everyone who had signed that petition. According to BFR, that was about 47% of those who voted in the last election.

Nice going, Mr. Scott.

Comments

[Tiger Bay on 20.09.05 at 19:27]

It was clear that Alex Scott has no intent of listening to the voters as expressed by the referendum petition. He only listens to the small group that reflects the hermetic idealogy of his inner PLP clique. His relentless and stupid compulsion for spin is dangerous for Bermuda's future.

[Fourth Estate on 20.09.05 at 19:33]

"Folks didn't know they were going to get saddled with the Scott/Brown kleptocracy when they voted PLP in the last election, but that's democracy."

[ours on 20.09.05 at 19:52]

“Folks signed this and didn’t know what they were signing, but that’s democracy.”

You could say thats the way his party was voted in......
Maybe scott is on to something, democracy is flawed so we should become independant and try and move toward an efficient dictatorship. Then surely those clearly ignorant people who sign petitions will be purged.

[Onion in London on 20.09.05 at 20:08]

Why is this not surprising?! I knew as soon as this stupid man was presented with the signatures (including mine!) that he was say something to the effect of the above. (Shaking my head) What are we going to do?

[SmokingGun on 20.09.05 at 20:48]

Hmmmm....we need a different kind of pen. Looks like someone's getting ready to try to steal something.

[Red Riding Hood (.)(.) on 20.09.05 at 21:40]

We are screwed, did you see people that went to the presentation....little old white ladies, thats the independence no vote. No friggin wonder the PLP just ignore anyone...what's gonna happen "vicoius granny beats Scott with hand bag"

[Combat Banker on 21.09.05 at 07:58]

Hood, if my Grandma were alive, she probably would. Except she would not bother to waste a perfectly good hand bag.

At least his comment bespoke his true thoughts on the matter. We know that the only reason he does not want a referendum is that he thinks the electorate is too stupid to know what it wants. Well the same electorate put him in office, so maybe he's right.

[Tiger Bay on 21.09.05 at 08:06]

Bill, may I suggest a CORRECTION: "[Scott] thinks the electorate is too stupid to know what HE wants"

[sandgrownan on 21.09.05 at 08:38]

Unbelievable. So folks, we all agress Alex is an idiot. What do we do now?

[Tiger Bay on 21.09.05 at 08:42]

I don't think he's an idiot. I do believe that he's racist, malicious, undemocratic, and ill-suited to public office.

[sandgrownan on 21.09.05 at 08:52]

Ok, so we differ on how we condemn the man. But, how do we get rid of him and the whole incompetant bunch. Or more specifically, how do we educate the electorate at large that each day the PLP are in office, the further down Bermuda is dragged?

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 21.09.05 at 09:00]

While I am a PLP supporter this is one more incident to show how ignorant the current PLP leadership.

I also clearly support Independence bt it not something that in any way, shape or form should be forced on the country. Contrary to the position of Alex Scott, there is no more democratic way to determine the wishes of the people than to decide the matter by way of a referendum.

Alex needs to forget about what he wants and remember he works for the people, not for himself and it is his job to make certain the people get what the people want.

This is a sad, sad day for Bermudian politics. Sir John is not so far off on the comments he made to Rotary.

[Craig on 21.09.05 at 09:35]

What would it take for a vote of no confidence in the sitting government?? And who can initiate such a vote?

Of course - the problem is that I don't have any confidence in the Opposition either! Mind you - can they be worse than we have at the moment?

[Uncle Elvis on 21.09.05 at 10:30]

Thank you, Guilden!

I try to explain this simple concept to people at least three or four times a week.
We need to keep this in mind at all times.
The Government works for us. WE are the employers.
Politicians seem to have lost this concept, on both sides of the arena.
Whoever TRULY wants to win the next election will need to keep this in mind and show us that they are willing and able to serve US.

The way I look at it, we're all the shareholders of a company. We don't want to run, or don't have time to run, the company on a day to day basis, so we hire someone to do it.
Take a good look at who was hired and decide for yourselves whether they're doing a satisfactory job.

Oh, wait, we didn't hire these guys, did we? They just walked up out of the mailroom and said, "Uh... yeah. So that chick and her crew you just rehired? Yeaaah... they're not gonna be doing that any more."

Hmmm... Why are we keeping these guys around again?

[SmokingGun on 21.09.05 at 10:42]

How about a boycott? The one thing about about Bermuda politics and government (which I hate mind you) is that the players seem to all have day jobs. It shouldn't be hard to figure out where these guys make their other livlihood. So how about a show of discontent by doing exactly what they do. If Alex Scott is the head of the PLP and he makes statements that says he's pretty much going to ignore his people then let's just do the same. Ignore his and other leaders of the PLP owned or managed businesses. Boycott the stores and businesses that put money into the pockets of the people that choose to ignore you. Spend your hard earned money elsewhere. If Grant Gibbons was acting in the same manner I'd certainly not shop at his family's business.

[Nicolette on 21.09.05 at 13:26]

I need suggestions as to how we can boycott the government ... how can we, the people strike and actually be effective? Not voting is sheer apathy; refusing to pay taxes just f**** with our credit rating... marching is sooo passe and ineffective... anyone?

Any constitutional lawyers out there who can suggest ways we can take a no confidence vote in our current leader? Perhaps force a leadership change until the next election... or does one actually have to join a political party to effect change within it?

[Full Fullish on 21.09.05 at 14:28]

Wow, this is serious. He sounds like he's going to do it his way regardless of the public's wish. I'm with you guys, something needs to be done now.

I'm not a political expert, I just have my own views on right and wrong. It bottles down to this. The current elected body of this country are about to do something that violates the at least 47% of the voters wishes. They are out of controll and need to be stopped. I too also feel "uncomfortable" putting the UBP back into the ranks. So, as far as I"m aware, that leaves us with 2 options:

1. A revolt, which would constitute a forcable removal of the current government body from power. I'm completely against this as it would tear this country apart.

2. Creating a new party that is really for the people. With checks and balances, accountability and an internal system to stop any one person from doing what both the UBP and the PLP have been accused of in the past. Get enough support and have them voted out of office. Go a step further and solicitate some of the talent from both the UBP and PLP that are upstanding servents of the public, at the very least for guidence and advice.

Anyone have any other suggestions? What about this "No Confidence" thing. We really need someone with political expertise to make some comments in here as to what our options are.

[Yet Another Limey on 21.09.05 at 14:46]

As long as independence remains a PLP manifesto pledge for the next election, backed by all PLP ministers, then I think Alex Scott is right not to use a referendum.

Referendums are used to get a democratic mandate from the people in cases where your own party is split on an issue or where a political party wants to make a serious constitutional change that was not part of their election manifesto.

If the PLP go into the next election clearly stating they will take Bermuda independent and the public gives them a democratic mandate to go ahead with their manifesto, then so be it.

If you don’t want to go independent I can suggest two options:
1. Support the UBP
2. Create your own anti-independence party.

[Yet Another Limey on 21.09.05 at 14:50]

Just thought of another option:
3. Convince your local PLP candidate to go against independence. If you can split the party Alex could be forced to call a referendum.

[Big Bad Wolf ^..^ on 21.09.05 at 14:52]

The problem from the last election is that they did'nt state anything!

[Yet Another Limey on 21.09.05 at 15:01]

Wolf,

That's probably why they haven't done anything this term.

[Full Fullish on 21.09.05 at 15:07]

Yet Another Limey -

I have my doubts. I emailed Terry Lister over the education issue and still haven't heard anything back from him on it. That was over 3 weeks ago now. It's cause of this that my pleeding will fall on deaf ears. These guys ignore the very people that put them into position, so I highly doubt they are going to listen to me.

Does anyone know, for a fact, of any of the PLP ranks that are against independence? If so we need to speak to them.

[Big Bad Wolf ^..^ on 21.09.05 at 15:10]

Actually think the printed PLP platform was released about a week after the election...unlike other elections I never saw that particuliar PLP platform.You have a point on the performance....No score...No music!

[Wickering Banker : - ) ----: on 21.09.05 at 16:01]

As a registered voter who signed the petition, I am insulted by Alex's comment.

Not surprised tho.....

[Uncle Elvis on 21.09.05 at 16:30]

Wait... that was for the referendum?

I thought I was getting financing for my car!

[Uncle Elvis on 21.09.05 at 16:31]

I wonder what it was that made Mr. Scott think this.
Was it the people getting the signatures asking "Would you like to sign the petition asking for a referendum on the issue of Independence?"
Or maybe the words on the petition itself weren't clear enough where it said "This is for a referendum on Independence"
Could it have been the signs they had out at the locations?

I think perhaps all three of these factors contributed to people not understanding what they were signing.

Yeesh. What kills me is that people will STILL BELIEVE HIM! There will be people out there that will argue 'til they're blue in the face that he's right about this. *sigh*

[Uncle Elvis on 21.09.05 at 16:34]

Woofie, THAT was a platform?

That pamphlet that "Buy Bermuda" PLP had printed overseas that said, basically:

Uhhh... we... uh... umum... we're gonna... um... do stuff, y'know?... um.. like... em ah... you know... stuff. We have.. uh... plans... to.. um.. do stuff... um... uh... UBP SUCKS, SAN DIMAS FOOTBALL RULES!

That one? That was a platform?

[Full Fullish on 21.09.05 at 22:17]

Hmmm just read the Royal Gazette article on this. In hind site, the BFR should have attempted to contact as many people to join them. I think that after this, however, if Alex and the crew sill push for Independence by way of election, then we should all show up on Cabinet Steps, all 14 thousand of us camped right outside the door and demands what we rightfully want.

[SmokingGun on 21.09.05 at 22:42]

Just heard Alex has decided he's going to allow a referendum. In fact he's just ordered some second hand ballot machines from Florida.
Got them for a steal.

[Full Fullish on 22.09.05 at 08:23]

Smoking Gun -
Hhahahahahhaahhaha.....actually wait, don't give him any ideas!

[Raptor on 22.09.05 at 09:13]

It’s mindboggling to read in the Bermuda Sun that former PLP Senator Calvin Smith says “independence is too complex an issue to be decided by a referendum.” Smith says the PLP should include a “question” about independence on the ballot at the next general election, (whatever that means—binding, or not?). Can't think for yourself? Let the PLP do your thinking for you.

He attributes “the general public adamant in their refusal to support independence and totally confused” as being caused by Jennifer Smith’s putting independence on the back burner. Smith totally ignores the issues that the general public is trying to address.

Smith (he wrote the BIU submission) wants both parties to debate, leading to addressing “irrational” fears, addressing very pressing social, political and economic problems, and then to independence. There’s a great start to a debate—the PLP leaves the UBP’s submission out of the BIC Report.

My favourite: “polls that suggest a majority of people are opposed to independence ‘mean precious little.’” He says “a majority of people did not want integration….People don’t always want what’s right.’” So, here we go, not wanting independence is equated with racism. Along with everybody else, he insults the intelligence of PLP supporters who would not vote for independence.

[loki on 22.09.05 at 09:17]

Raptor,

Remember - uncle Calvin and uncle Alex know what's best for you. Now, run along now and play with your friends.....

[Bill Cook on 22.09.05 at 09:25]

Raptor,

Nietche believed in a class of superior people.

They have a right, a duty, to lie and deceive the people ,for their own good of course.

I believe Hitler was a big fan of Nietche.

If you control perception you can then redefine reality.

[Raptor on 22.09.05 at 09:55]

Bill, Dubya too has absorbed that lesson--you can get the electorate to believe anything if you manipulate them enough. I don't think he's read Nietzsche, but I'm sure Rove has. I'm sure the PLP is picking up on Dubya's example as well. Dishonest doesn't cover it.

There is something good in the Calvin Smith article, a challenge that has been ignored, it seems: The headline should have read, "BIU URGES BOTH PARTIES TO DEBATE." How come no one's picking up on that? Hasn't the UBP had enough time to read the BIC Report yet? Of course, the BIU submission seems to think a debate "might begin to address very pressing social, political and economic problems." I thought the government was supposed to have done that already.

[Bill Cook on 22.09.05 at 10:47]

Raptor,

Dubya does not realise that he himself has been manipulated esp. by Paul Wolfowitz and co.

Rove the King of spin, is Edgar Bergan to Dubya's Charlie McCarthy, funny if it were not so tragic.

I think the UBP have not approached this as well as they could have, in so many positive ways.

Its way down the list in the importance of priorities,with really serious issues to address,that is the obvious reality.

[Longtime Lurker on 22.09.05 at 11:36]

"Smith says the PLP should include a “question” about independence on the ballot at the next general election, (whatever that means—binding, or not?)."

I haven't read this article, so I could be completely wrong, but to me this sounds like "A combined referendum/general election ballot is actually the most fair choice, but I don't want to wake up the next day to Prime Minister Grant Gibbons."

If that's what he means, then he's probably right! :)

[Bud on 22.09.05 at 11:46]

How many people here would support a dual ballot referendum and election if both were binding? What would be wrong with taking this option?

[Bermudian in Limeyland on 22.09.05 at 11:59]

A dual ballot referendum and election would serve only as a means to save the costs of holding a public vote.

I find it amazing that any intelligent person regardless of how they feel on the issue of independence would rather that the decision was made as part of a general election vote rather than on its own.

By deciding the issue as part of a general election it would force the UBP into an anti-independence stance puely so that the electorate was able to vote against the issue. This would serve only to polarise the political parties further. Bermuda as a whole would be much better served if politicians were allowed (or more willing) to act on what they believe than on the prevailing party rhetoric.

[Longtime Lurker on 22.09.05 at 12:04]

Bud, that actually sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Negatives: The only downside that I can think of is that the candidates would have to divide their time between campaigning for themselves and their positions on independence.

Positives: This would be more democratic - we'd have our referendum. People could vote on an anti-independence/pro-PLP position. The voter turnout would probably be boosted.

The benefits might outweigh the negatives. Can anyone else think of more positives/negatives of doing it this way?

[sandgrownan on 22.09.05 at 12:08]

nothing fundamentally worng with it, except it might confuse the issue and I thought collectively we'd decided (with the exception of Bud) that a ref. was the way to go, largely for that reason.
I'd still prefer a seperate reforendum.

[Bermudian in Limeyland on 22.09.05 at 12:15]

Am I missing something from the debate on the Island that isn't getting overseas.

If Alex Scott truly believed that the majority of the Island supported the idea of an independent Bermuda would it not be in the PLPs interest to put that issue to an island wide vote on its own. That way they wouldn't need to worry about people not voting about independence because they were worried about other issues (such as the PLPs inability to deal with running the country in its current set-up).

Old Alex is either very confident in the PLPs ability to win a general election or very unconfident that the population generally wants to be independent.

[Tiger Bay on 22.09.05 at 12:19]

Referendum should be held seperately. Duh.

The PLP wants to mix the two (for reasons already bludgeoned to death here) - but would prefer to wait a while as they don't have to hold an election for years ... and frankly their reputation right now sucks. They could then spend that time brainwashing us with more vapid "education" and visits from the UN apparatchiks.

[sandgrownan on 22.09.05 at 12:21]

But you know...with all of the BIC report nonesense, the lies, the pure unadulterated bullshit coming from Alex Scott and now Smith's offensive and insulting comments in The Sun ...I think that this question should be removed as far away as possible from party politics. So, while in principle the dual ballot seems fine, I'm not so sure.

It's one thing to berate the UBP for being a largely ineffective opposition, but the last week or so has offered the most incredible insight into the minds of this government. What a bunch of complete and utter liars.

[Bud on 22.09.05 at 12:51]

Combining the two allows for voters to make a decision completely separate from their choice of political party, while at the same time providing a heightened platforms for all elected officials to debate the positives and negatives of independence. What is wrong with that? Any way you cut it, referendum or election, we are knee deep in politics. Some of us just like to BS themselves into thinking that the UBP's position is purely a matter of democratic principles.

About a month ago, even Khalid Wasi broke ranks with the BRP by supporting the one event dual issue option.

[Uncle Elvis on 22.09.05 at 13:10]

"If Alex Scott truly believed that the majority of the Island supported the idea of an independent Bermuda would it not be in the PLPs interest to put that issue to an island wide vote on its own"

You see, this is the thing. I personally think that he DOESN'T believe that the majority of the Island supports Independence. This is why he's pushing for it to be attached to a General Election, counting on Party loyalty in voting to push this down our throats.

It's insulting to Bermudians in general, but PLP supporters in particular, treating them like they're too stupid and too dog-loyal to the party that they'll vote for Independence even though they don't want it.

[Uncle Elvis on 22.09.05 at 13:11]

Bud, I'm getting mixed signals.
You're FOR a referendum, now?
What happened?

[Phil on 22.09.05 at 13:51]

The trouble with a holding a referendum and an election at the same time is that it would obligate the UBP to go into some detail on what they would do if they were elected with a 'yes' vote in the referendum.

While some of you may not see that as a problem (indeed I'm sure the PLP would view the prospect of forcing the UBP's hand with relish), it would mean that both parties would end up spending time on independence that could be better spent saying what they would do about the real problems that Bermuda faces. And if the UBP said "we'll formulate detailed proposals after the election in the event of a yes vote" then it would be easy for the PLP to say that the UBP was denying Bermudians all the information they needed to vote (which would be true).

Since this scenario has such advantages for the PLP, it wouldn't surprise me at all if this is the approach they adopt.

[Raptor on 22.09.05 at 14:27]

Longtime Lurker, the full quote from the article on Calvin Smith was "independence is too complex an issue to be decided by a referendum--he believes a general election is the way to go. But he said the PLP can have it both ways--by including a question about independence on the ballot at the next general election." The title of the article is "’PLP Could Have a Referendum and Election Combined’—Former PLP Senator sees third way as being a ‘unifying’ course of action."

I think this is what the PLP will push to do--tie a vote on independence as closely as possible to a general election.

[Adjustah on 22.09.05 at 16:18]

http://www.theroyalgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050922/NEWS/109220089

Someone grew a pair...

[peter j on 25.09.05 at 20:31]

So I saw an interseting exchange earlier on here but no resolution / solutions being offered to the question of 'What do we do to take action/ initaiate a No Confidence vote' ? . I would be very interested in the views from anuyone out there on exactly what the general population can do (other than marching etc) to instil some urgency into us Bermudian peoples. I am soooo fede up with having liers, cheaters, stealers getting away with all of this childih claptrap and as was said earlier also, .......... WE are the shareholders, WE pay their salaries, WE should be in control but are being treated like idiots, lemmings, children etc.

Any one gort suggestions on the best way to CHANGE thimgs NOW?

Am totally fed up with my fellow countrymen's apathy and lack of backbone to stand up to these conmen!