Pay attention Mr. Lister

Education Minister Terry Lister should hire Cedarbridge principal Kalmar Richards as his PR advisor.

Here's what Mr. Lister said about the awful graduation rates from the Island's public schools in response to a critical opinion column by Christian Dunleavy:

"Dunleavy's comments are absurd and divisive to say the least. They negate the efforts of trained teachers and of disciplined students. They are insulting to the thousands of parents who have entrusted their children to this school system. Worst of all, they imply that if your child is a student in the Bermuda Public School System, they will automatically emerge unskilled and uneducated."

Contrast that with what Ms. Richards said to Hamilton Rotarians yesterday:

Referring to recent graduation results, Mrs. Richards said she made no excuses for the pass rate but added that it "must" improve...

"Although the percentage of students graduating is increasing, we are not satisfied with the current number of students who graduate each year," she said.

She added that the school had a student support team in place to monitor student's grades, attendance and conduct on an ongoing basis.

Students who do not meet the standards in one or more of these areas are placed on their student support team.

Acknowledge the problem, then lay out the actions being taken to solve it. It's an approach that many members of the current Government might like to try.

Comments

[jake on 07.09.05 at 14:00]

Well said, Mrs. Richards.

Well reported, Phil.

[Raptor on 07.09.05 at 14:18]

I'm impressed with what Ms. Richards said. She's right on the mark. The parents' workshops are absolutely crucial to children's success. Ms. Richards seems to be providing all the kinds of comprehensive support services necessary for students to succeed. The graduation rate after summer school is far higher, which is a good sign.

What a difference between her comments and Lister's! She provides a lot of valuable information and talks about goals. Lister comes up with a sour knee-jerk response to a reasonable and valuable article written by Dunleavy, who wants these children to succeed!

Ms. Richards actually provides an opening for people to be able to access the school's efforts and welcomes community effort. Great going!

[SmokingGun on 07.09.05 at 14:38]

Minister Lister probably assumed it was just another piece of satire aimed at the PLP.

[Tiger Bay on 07.09.05 at 16:21]

The right words - but the results are still awful. And the results are the only thing that counts.

[Raptor on 07.09.05 at 16:35]

Tiger Bay, I agree. She didn't say how long these programs have been in force, did she? Maybe they're brand new!

[Cancundreaming on 07.09.05 at 17:08]

Tiger Bay,

"The right words - but the results are still awful. And the results are the only thing that counts."

Well I think you’re wrong there Tiger Bay, specifically when the representation of those ‘results’ are graduation rates. Graduation rates tell us nothing other then whether a student successfully achieved the bare minimum to receive the diploma in question. As a society, I think the question we must ask ourselves is whether the students that leave these schools are adequately prepared for a university/college education. As a country, I think all students should attend some sort of training after high school, regardless of whether that’s a 1 or 2 year trade program or a 4 year liberal arts college.

As a society, or as the public, I think the problem with being fixated on graduation rates is that you’re asking to be lied to, you’re asking to be manipulated. What is the easiest way to improve graduation rates? Lower the standard. I’m not suggesting that IS happening, but I think it can certainly be a possibility when pressure is being placed on the notion of a high graduation rate and not the question of whether these students are adequately prepared.

Obviously, I’m not suggesting that graduation rates are useless, With a 52% rate, I think one can assume that at least 48% of these students aren’t adequately prepared. Or maybe not? I’ve always had some questions when they report these rates in the media, I think a more detailed report would be far more useful then a simple ‘rate’. The most important question I think is whether the 48% failure rate includes those students who decided to stay in school for the summer or for an extra year, or two, so that they could graduate. If it does, it doesn't seem to me like a real ‘graduation rate’. Anyone know the answer? Personally I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with staying in school for additional time to receive your diploma, it’s certainly considerably better then the alternative.

[loki on 07.09.05 at 17:14]

I'd doubt very much whether there's anything particularly wrong with Cedarbridge or the Government curriculum, per se, and it boggles me why people point the finger squarely at the Government and Cedarbridge. We have a social problem, not a educational problem.

[anonwreason on 07.09.05 at 20:21]

FYI: The IT curricula in Bermuda's public school system was written by Stanford University (and is updated regularly - visit iecf.us to learn more.

University of Virginia works with the remaining core disciplines (i.e. maths, english, science, geography, etc) to infuse technology into their everyday teachings

The staff at M.O.E. & D are incredibly bright, and dedicated. They're also offered all sorts of opportunities many teachers around the world will never get to see. Training at Stanford University. The ability to work in their field during the summer to get a more "realistic" look at the potential careers / opportunities presented through the subjects they teach..

our education system also has strong corporate partner support. in fact, the ceo of logic (jeff hammill) taught classes at cedarbridge after ungergoing some training led by stanford & B-Tech. That sends such a valuable message to our students.

the problem is, these kids don't realise how fortunate they are.. or take advantage of every opportunity available to them. for many... none.

[Full Fullish on 07.09.05 at 20:29]

First off.....Mr. Lister is off his rocker for defending the teachers. While I agree to a point with Loki and the blame doesn't fall squarely on them, but rather it can be shared by parents who can care less, teachers who can care less and principals who have lost touch with the educational system.

Cedarbridge, once it was completed, should have been an amazing success, however it turned into a quagmire of underage gangs and social misfits. I was there when the school opened up for the first few months and I was horrified as to what I saw. Within one week the damage that was caused was unbelievable. Before I continue, to those students and teachers who do make the grade, I salute you for doing so in an atmosphere where that is noncondusive to learning. There is no defense for such a high failing grade. All students have the ability to learn and pass, some require more work than others. I've said it before, teaching is one of those jobs that require a special touch. You can't honestly put in a normal 8 - 5 day, make no impact on the students and then call yourself a teacher. In the private sector, you would be fired for consistenly completing 47% of your work, the same should be for these teachers (actually I'd fire the principals).

This being said, I like what Ms. Richards has said, what would really impress me would be seeing a passing rate of students above 65%. She's on the mark about getting the parents involved. Students look to their parents for guidence. If the parents don't give a damn, then neither will the students.

All in all, we need to get Mr. Lister the hell out of the education ministry, how can we be satisfied with him, if he's satisfied with such a high failure rate himself. He obviously lives by the expression "Aim low, disappoint no one". He should be riding these principals like a stallion in heat over this. Instead he holds up the students that pass, which is an exception to the rule and attempts to feign a success. If I were a parent of a failing student I think I'd walk up and kick him squarely in the ass for saying that. It doesn't matter if Dunleavy graduated from a public or private school. Failure is failure, maybe he'd like 47% of his pay this year to put things into perspective. What's worse is that he's admitting that the public school by making the comparison between public and private school systems. Cedarbridge, when it was built was more technically advanced than the private school I attended as well as many colleges I've seen. The tools are there, the spirit is obviously weak.

[Big Bad Wolf ^..^ on 07.09.05 at 21:28]

Bermuda public schools...clueless in Bermuda....It cost more per student to send our children to public schools than Private. Give all the schools over to the private sector....were wasting our money on the public schools.

[anonwithreason on 08.09.05 at 09:52]

Big Bad Wolf: why don't you open up a school?

[Tiger Bay on 08.09.05 at 10:02]

Because that wild wolf doesn't know any good doggy tricks.

[Big Bad Wolf ^..^ on 08.09.05 at 10:10]

All I could really do over a Dark Matinee....is teach young cubs the way of the ^..^ and how to HOWL!

[Big Bad Wolf ^..^ on 08.09.05 at 10:15]

Heah you need an education TIGER....I'm wolf and thats why I know of absolutely NO DOGGY Tricks....er other than doggy style.

[Captain Crunch on 08.09.05 at 10:53]

Hey Limey and all the faithful readers,

I have been following this website since it first started but i have never posted a comment i just enjoyed reading the views of people through out the island, but i feel that this topic has really urged me to comment.

I am only 22 and it just so happened that experienced the education system's drastic change. I went to berkeley Institute and was actually a graduate of the last official berkeley class to leave that school.....(poor Berkeley-ites) i just want to comment on why there is a lack of males graduating and also why the rate of none graduates is so high.

for one i feel the environment the students are put in plays a big factor. now cedarbridge is a big school and there are alot of students and that was a big issue from the start because there are so many different cultures being crammed into one location which is destined to errupt. like when Cedarbridge first opened, there where acts of violence almost every day and there still are. And thats because you have children from different parts of the island who come to this central location and just dont feel at home. and they wonder why gangs are becoming more popular in bermuda. it's starting with in the school system. when they had high schools spread through out the island you never really heard of much violence between the youth. sometimes you would go to such events like inter-school sports and see people from other schools who you have never seen before. and wont see them until another big event as such. (do they even have interschool sports anymore?) the gangs are taking a toll on the male population in Cedarbridge and because of this students are getting into altercations and either getting suspended, expelled or just not going to school in fear of an altercation or just skipping. parents have a roll in this aswell because nowdays children dont get corrected like back in the day. but it all boils down to the student, no one can make you do something you dont feel comfortable doing. this is just my opinion. i also feel we do need more male teachers in the school system because they have a bigger influence on young males. my reason is this, for example ever gotten into trouble and had to face a male teacher? you felt a bigger fear than a female teacher right? but you could relate to them better aswell. The New Berkeley isjust gonna add to the pile. another big school where children are goint to get lost in the system. I feel more children will fail due to that and there will be more gangs forming in bermuda. just look at it this way, you are going to a party, there are so much people there you feel lost, the first thing you are going to do is look for someone you know to make you feel comfortable at the party. that's the same thing with Cedarbridge. there are so many students at that school. theh males group together and they form a bond and most of the time its a negative bond where they encourage one and other to sattle for the easy way out. this is why you get so many males failing making the rate of none graduates so high! some have the sense to go to summer school and clean up and the rest just sattle for nothing! sorry for writing such a long column but i felt as a young person caught in the cross fire of the school system i should let you know what its like looking out from the inside.....

thanks limey.....

[jake on 08.09.05 at 11:15]

Well said, Captain Crunch.

We have all felt that feeling of being isolated and I cannot imagine what it must be like to join a school with that many students.

Even as an adult when I have been at Cedarbridge it was an intimidating feeling.

Smaller class sizes have been demonstrated to help with learning. Perhaps smaller school sizes have a similar impact.

Are there any studies out there showing a link between class size and performance?

Does size matter?

[sandgrownan on 08.09.05 at 11:40]

Jake, Captain Crunch, both are correct, and yes there are many studies linking smaller class size with improved academic performance.

I went to a large high school. 256 in each year group - 37 or so in each class. Only those who were naturally bright and/or motivated (which happened to be the ones with parents who played an active role) had any chance of success. Out of my year group, only 15 made it to higher education on the first attempt. 15 out of 256.

The problem, of course, is that if you have a school designed to cater for all social backgrounds in the community and all ability levels not everyone is going to get the attention they deserve. The 15 who went on to higher education did so despite the environment, not because of it. Those in the middle, who might have made it with some focus were left out, and those at the bottom of the heap. Well, they're just screwed from the start.

[ruby tuesday on 08.09.05 at 11:51]

When I was an advisor at HMT several years ago there were 3 studies that I know of that studied the effects of class sizes in the UK. There was a positive effect on all age groups but 13-16 yr groups saw the highest sensitivity.

[jake on 08.09.05 at 12:35]

Thanks guys, but what about school size as distinct from class size?

For example, could you have a school with small size and large classes doing well?

What about a school with a large size and small classes?

Last test: school with small size and small classes?

[Captain Crunch on 08.09.05 at 13:05]

Hey guy,

thanks for the feed back. i feel the smaller the school the smaller the class the bigger the graduation class will be. because like stated before some students take longer to excel than others and some have natural abiities to learn quicker. i feel if the class is smaller the teacher is able to divide their time much easier to cater to the ones that are legging behind. and it is also eaier for the teacher to evaluate each students performance and do ti at a earlier state so they arent half way through the ters and the student is so far behind that it is almost impossible for them to catch up. so there you have it my opinion is small schools small classes.......bring back whitney, st. george's sec, northlands, etc. this mega school crap is a destined failure!!! and kick terry lister's butt to the curb cause he is not the one for that position!!!!! i went schoolw ith his daughters and they are just like him....arrogant and cocky but dont know it all!!!!!!

Good day Mr. Limey

[SmokingGun on 08.09.05 at 13:15]

Having large homogenous schools does a major diservice to Bermuda and it's future generations. Close these monstrosities and convert them to housing/government offices/health care facilities etc. and get back to smaller parish based schools. Give kids some pride in their neighborhood, reduce the stress on them and their teachers and allow them to release their energy via a little competition on the playing fields not in the parking lots. These kids don't deserve to be run through a Tyson chicken factory.

[Raptor on 08.09.05 at 14:08]

I Googled "studies on school size" and found quite a few interesting sites. Here's one to start with:

http://www.nwrel.org/scpd/sirs/10/c020.html

Sounds like smaller is better, which has been known for a long time.

[Big Bad Wolf ^..^ on 08.09.05 at 14:12]

We shot our Public schools in the head when we destroyed small community high schools and adopted the mega school concept. We have those UBP retards to thank for this educational mess.The PLP being clueless carried on with the UBP idea and destroyed the biggest piece of open space in Pembroke with the yet unfinnished Berkeley mega school. We should of upgraded our parish high schools paid the good teachers more,kept the school classes small and we would not be in this present mess.

[Raptor on 08.09.05 at 14:17]

I have seen more large high schools go to a school-within-a-school concept. Also, I have seen one large high school split into three co-existing high schools, with somewhat different emphases, within the same original school building. Maybe these ideas would work.

Hard to teach warehoused kids.

It must have been the UBP that came up with this mega-school idea. Who pushed it, in particular?

[Big Bad Wolf ^..^ on 08.09.05 at 14:47]

Heah Raptor read above YOUR post ...It was the UBP Stupid!!! Help a friend give him a great Book.....The Booker Prize Short List will shortly be announced....A Harvest for the Mind!!!

[SmokingGun on 08.09.05 at 15:09]

^..^ - Got fleas?

Why the rabid responses all the time?

[Raptor on 08.09.05 at 15:36]

BBW: I was stating the obvious--it had to have been under the UBP that the mega-school idea flew. I was asking which individuals in the UBP pushed the idea.

The name-calling is just distasteful and unnecessary. BBW, I have to say that I've started to avoid reading your comments unless they have relatively few full-caps and wolf pictures in them.

You obviously have some interesting ideas at times, and then on the other side of the split, you seem manic--and that seems to be predominating. Seriously, have you thought of starting your own web site so that you can indulge that side of yourself? You could get even more attention that way.

[Big Bad Wolf ^..^ on 08.09.05 at 16:31]

Me be serious what for...Its all a joke...eventually you will catch on...Its all a part of your HIGHER education...that is unless you were educated to be another replacement part for the machine!!!

[Nicolette on 08.09.05 at 17:51]

I met an ex teacher from Cedarbridge who teaches because she loves it - i.e. no financial need at all - she was fired because she put up a stink about the policy of kicking out students and providing no GED attainment alternative for those 16 and over who were bringing down the class average grades - and she was not Bermudian... otherwise it would have been pretty hard to fire her. She wanted to start a GED attainment "school" for those who dropped out and wanted to come back for whatever reason - she said she had lots of interest from former students that had babies young and some that simply rebelled and wanted to get back on a career path, and for those that Cedarbridge were summarily expelling due to poor grades. She was thwarted at every turn mainly because allowing her "school" to exist would have highlighted the initial problem she tried to bring to light thereby making the Education Ministry look worse than it already does. So now she's spending her inheritance sunning herself in Spain ... what a waste of a caring individual who only wanted to help our youth.

On another note, Warwick Academy is excellent... better than Saltus or BHS these days...

[Red Riding Hood (.)(.) on 08.09.05 at 18:57]

The UBP also like the PLP loved capital projects, what a great way to milk the treasury! What needs to happen on this island is accountability for the politicians. The UBP were sent packing with their tails between their legs over things like Cedarbridge and the Airport, now the PLP are doing the same. The politicians need to be fired and replaced regularly and then and only then will they place the community before their greedy little hands.

[Full Fullish on 09.09.05 at 15:44]

So concerned am I over this issue that I took it upon myself to email Mr. Lister. I made my email completely non threatening nor inflamitory, and simply posed the question: What steps are going to be done so the graduation rate increases?

That was 2 days ago. To date, I have neither recieved acknolowedgement of reciept of my email, nor an informative answer to my question.

I'm going to give it a few days and will keep you abreast of any conversations which do or do not take place. I hope it's not a matter of another captainless ship at sea......

[Full Fullish on 10.09.05 at 18:34]

Still nothing. What kind of government is this that they can't take the time out to answer one question from a voter??? What suggestions do you have in order to get an answer from this guy?

[Lost in Flatts on 11.09.05 at 18:50]

Full Fullish,

Erm, pay to play?
Try emailing again and asking for bank account details, you know wire numbers and things like that. Good luck!

[blovator on 11.09.05 at 19:27]

Education in Bermuda is not in the shape that is required. That will not change until people start caring about education. Education as it is today is an event in ones life, isolated from all other experience. It is apolitical and not economic. One is conveyed into a sub-reality in which the only valid goal is a kind of short term performance success. All effort of any kind leads directly to a simple conclusion - a grade. This grade will gain you a short term validation from teachers and parents. It is said that this grade is tradable - at the end of the game some decade down the line - for happiness in the form of a job. Maybe. All learning will be done in the company only of people your own age. Who know nothing more than you do. Oh, there will be one harried, underpaid adult in the room. For reasons known to no one, this adult will have full moral authority and be the model for emulation of students for most of the day. This adult will be a teacher, a kind of person who is not widely respected in our community.

This is the bizarre theatre of life we ask students to believe. If you ask an adult to believe such malarky you would get justly slapped.

Nothing will change in education until the public cares about it. They don't, probably because they resent thier own experience as children in education. I know I do.

[jake on 12.09.05 at 02:16]

It is a shame that you view learning and educators that way.

It may be the fruit of some of the current practitioners, but I can recall the teachers in my family who were highly respected.

A grade for me was always an indication that I had mastered a shubject. It was the mastery of the learning that I valued - not the teacher's adoration. I get the same feeling when I read something and master it for myself.

Learning is about more than a job.

That is how you marry your avocation to your vocation. That is how you flourish.

I am sorry that you resent your own education, but I have to confess, it comes through in your submission.

[Full Fullish on 12.09.05 at 07:26]

Blovator - What you describe is completely the opposite from my school experience. As I recall, I only had one bad teacher, Mr. Moran, who was boarderline abusive towards students who weren't his "Teachers Pets". The rest, however, was a good experience. Teachers, at least when I was growing up, were respected by both parents as well as students. They earn that respect by being a good teacher, which is a very honourable profession in my opinion.

Yes I was educated in a private school, but if this is the general expereience in the public schools, then this is all the more reason for a change, and apparently this needs to start at the top going down.

To say you resent your education is a very sad thing. Mostly you don't appreciate you education until you're older, but at the very least it should be something you cherish.

[blovator on 12.09.05 at 15:47]

The objective of education has to be redefined. It replaces all other important forces of social organization. It replaces family and religion. The only way of enforcing the law in a democratic society is through civic education. In a culture where intelligence is totemized, the only way of advancement is education. It is THE formative socializing event in childhood outside siblinghood.

And yet the entire experience happens outside the social venue in a limited and eclectic format. THe entire approuch is amoral and abstractly elaborated. Its actual connection to the outside society is minimized and its putative goal is ordinal - the getting of a grade.

I do not think that the getting of a grade confers any kind of authorative knowlege. An engagement with the topic on a personal level would eventually lead to such an understanding. But that is not the remit of education as a quick glance at a Mission Statement for most schools will indicate.

The purpose of education is the cultivation of a number of cognative rituals that will carry the student through more education. These cognative rituals lead the mind to a performance of some kind which is gradable.

This is why so many children who leave school disoriented and confused land on thier feet in tech schools. Tech schools are exactly the opposite. They teach directly relevant concepts that are interpretable in real context. If you get an F in car maintenance, who cares if you understand how a car works and can fix one. If you get an F in history - what exactly does that mean?

Being a student is a talent like any other. Understanding and being able to learn something requires an entirely different set of skills from those of a modern student.

[JJ on 18.04.06 at 12:57]

Alex Scott now just wants High school grads to be able to read! Does this mean that some of the 50% would do graduate now can't read?

[SmokingGun on 06.09.06 at 12:13]

Stuart J Hayward - I just started to read your speech to the Bermuda Tech Alumni and your suggestion for the new Minister of Ed. to turn the old Berkley into a Tech school. I'm in 100% agreement except for one thing. Why just boys? A Tech school can help so many kids (and adults) that we need it to be open to all.

[Tiger Bay on 06.09.06 at 12:44]

Also very much in favour of restoring a tech school!

[loki on 06.09.06 at 13:05]

Not so fast. Amigos!

It's not necessarily a bad idea to revive the tech school. However:

1. Most, if not all of the functions of the tech scool are carried out by the Bermuda College (a criminally underrated institution, by the way); and

2. If we are talking about a tech school as secondary education - rather than a traditional high school - we have to be careful not to pigeonhole children into 'academic' and 'non-academic'.

[RedOnion on 06.09.06 at 13:26]

The old Bermuda Technical Institute provided technical as well as academic subjects to boys at a high school level, i.e. you entered the school at age 12 and left at 17 all being well. In those days it was common upon leaving to enter an apprenticeship scheme or in some cases to go on to further studies abroad.
The graduates of the school were eagerly snapped up by local businesses thereby all but eliminating the need to import blue collar workers at that time.

The huge difference between what the Tech provided then and what the College provides now is about 5 years. The average student enters the College at 17 or 18, by which time certain practices (work and study) are already in place, not necessarily a good thing.

There were many factors that made Tech the success it was, but there is no denying (ask any of the 600+ alumni) that the key factor was learning trades at such a young age when kids minds are still soaking up new ideas, not later when they have been dulled by those teenage years.

loki, back in the days of Tech that was the initial perception, however after a couple of years most people realized that the "techies" were in fact excelling at the academic subjects also, so that perception did not last long. It's up to the students to dispell that myth by their exam results.

Not everyone can be a lawyer or accountant or doctor, but you can be sure that every professional will need the services of a tradesman at some time.

And yes, I am a proud Tech Graduate!

[silencedogood on 06.09.06 at 13:38]

reinstating technical education would be one of the smartest moves in education the new minister could make. An easy dunk in the new role.