The Manipulator

Calvin Smith’s opinion piece in The Royal Gazette on the 18th of October, “Independence fears are derived from ignorance,” is one more attempt to persuade Bermudians that they do not know what they are thinking or why, much as Alex Scott said about the signers of a Referendum petition.

Who does Mr. Smith quote when he declares “so many of our citizens of English descent” regard the idea of independence with “supreme contempt”? It is ridiculous and an outrage that he tries to equate England under attack from Hitler’s Germany, intent on destroying the country, with a model for how Bermudians should value independence today. England was not “losing its independence to Germany,” it was being obliterated! Bermuda is not under physical attack by the UK; the UK does not want to destroy this tiny island or govern it. There are citizens, no doubt, willing to die for their country just the way it is, Mr. Smith.

Mr. Smith seems to find the Americans (international business) “ignorant and strange and irrational” — because they are not for independence. In his mind, their only concern revolves around the Privy Council, as he neglects to mention every other sound reason they have listed.

Each citizen of Bermuda already has “the same right as all other citizens to select the government of his/her choice.” We do not need independence to gain those rights. Bermuda is a country with weak leadership, often poor performance, and not great trust in the current government, with most PLP voters rejecting independence as well — and they are being called ignorant by Mr. Smith because of it. PLP voters can think for themselves; they are not beset by contradictions, Mr. Smith is. They are not beset by propaganda, they have access to facts.

Mr. Smith’s shaky arguments attempt to tie independence to women’s right to vote; the end of segregation in schools and public places; and one man, one vote of equal value (how about making that one person, one vote, Mr. Smith?). We have all these; there is no desire to rescind them. Independence deserves to be discussed on its own merits or failings—the honest approach.

Then he goes on to call on the U.S. to protect us under The Monroe Doctrine, one of the most notorious pieces of imperialism ever conceived! Not only that, he declares the U.S. is sure to come to the island’s aid in times of dangerous internal conflict. Actually, they might be happy to get rid of some tax “loophole” American businessmen. And we do not need to worry that things will get so bad that large numbers of tourists will be in danger, calling the U.S. to their aid. Before we ever get to that point, tourists will not want to come to the island in any case. High prices, poor service, and violence do a very neat job of keeping away people who just want to relax. Mr. Smith’s idea that magically the U.S. will want us as a dependency — but we would have to become independent first to find out — is laughable. Moreover, Bermudians will not want to become a dependency of the U.S. because they would have to pay income taxes.

While Mr. Smith believes this isolated island can always feed itself, he would do well do look back at its history to see numerous times over the centuries when circumstances changed and its people lived near starvation. Mr. Smith looks to international business and tourism as future support — the two sources of income for the island that are increasingly threatened and vulnerable. And while he further assures a young friend that his travel plans will not be disturbed by independence, he fails to mention the incredibly tremendous benefits, way beyond visiting, of having not just a British passport, but one for the E.U. Bermuda needs an escape hatch for its youth to develop, to be able to procure good college educations, and to work abroad for valuable experience. Such passports as the E.U. allow that — far more than conditions in the U.S. at this time.

Independence is not the cure-all Mr. Smith claims, nor is it the ultimate national ideal if it costs us more than we get. Let’s take advantage of our association with the UK and keep getting the most out of it — a situation more to our benefit than theirs in many ways. We are in a strong position, in that we are self-governing, and we have international advantages. We will best create our future by addressing our great weaknesses — crucial issues such as education, housing, crime, etc. It does not make sense to cut short the future of our children through emotional and manipulative reasoning. Mr. Smith fails to see that Bermudians, given the facts, can make a sound decision for themselves.

Comments

[TJL on 20.10.05 at 08:34]

These points are all great, and it seems clear to me as well that we have an awful lot to lose by going independent. But before then dismissing the pro-independence electorate (separate from the pro-independence politicians) as ignorant or misled, perhaps we need to consider that not everyone on this island has an equal amount to lose? We can spout the virtues of trickle-down economics until we are blue in the face, but it won't sound as compelling to someone who has watched the Bermudian economic pie grow exponentially yet still can't afford their rent, must take extra jobs to ensure food for their children and spend any extra seconds praying that they don't fall victim to the growing crime element on the island.

Don't get me wrong, I don't for one second think that independence will solve any of these problems, and could possibly exacerbate a few of them. I'm just saying that desperate people are more willing to try desperate solutions when their situation deteriorates, and the best way to convince a single mother with two jobs and a gang outside her door that independence is a bad idea is to tell her how you're going to make things better, not how independence will make them worse.

Cynically, maybe that's why every UBP and PLP government so far who have made independence their goal have screwed up everything else?

[Tiger Bay on 20.10.05 at 08:48]

Calvin is part of the "political dinosaur" wing of the PLP, along with Dame Lois, Alex Scott, Ewart Brown, Randy Horton, and others.

He probably wears Che Guevara underpants.

"Senator" Bud made a comment last week on this blog (now deleted) regarding the paucity of young talent in our political sphere.

This is very true, and the reason that Bermuda's prosperity is being chewed away by a bunch of unreformed and anti-democratic radicals.

[Full Fullish on 20.10.05 at 08:55]

Heh, Oddly enough, I wasn't the only one to be moved by Calvin's dribble. I submitted the following to the letters to the editor column as well:

Referring to Calvin Smith's letter in the Royal Gazette, titled Independence fears are derived from ignorance, Mr. Smith brings up several points which I'd like to expand on a bit.

It amazes me how some people have become quite the learned scholars as of late, quoting both William Shakespeare by Alex Scott and now Sir William Churchill by Calvin Smith. I fear that both Shakespeare and Churchill would be turning in their graves to learn how their quotes have been so manipulated to make a point. Mr. Smith, are you seriously comparing Independence for Bermuda with World War II? Surely you must recognize the difference between a need for defending your country and a want for independence. The former is done out of necessity, this is not the case with Bermuda. The PLP have always commented on the "Doom Sayers" of the anti-independence population, all the while comparing Bermuda to ravaged and war torn countries who are being oppressed physically, mentally or economically, do you not see the irony here? The Bermuda of today suffers from none of these problems, rather the opposite. How does Great Britain hinder us in any of these ways?

The PLP have not demonstrated any clear cut plan to independence. They are likening to a toddler wanting a puppy, yet having no idea how to take care of it. We have had plenty of comments, however, and if you notice these comments are published in the opinion section of the newspaper, such as yours, Mr. Smith. I have yet to see any realistic facts come forth on Independence. I have asked PLP supporters what gains Bermuda would achieve with Independence only to be left with silence. Where are the facts for any gains in independence? Where are the facts for any downfalls for independence? Where is the plan? You joke about the BIC report; however you fail to realize that the BIC report is in of itself a joke. Since you are of such a fan of Churchill, here's another quote for you also in regards to the BIC Report "The length of this document defends it well against the risk of its being read." Maybe that was the BIC’s ultimate intention when drafting a ridiculously long report. I would like to see a condensed version simply with the facts.

Mr. Smith, to quote you "To me and many other Bermudians, Independence is the ultimate goal of democracy. And by democracy, I refer to a political system whereby each citizen of a state has the same right as all other citizens to select the government of his/her choice. Clearly, without independence, that right is compromised. ".

Actually the ultimate goal of democracy is the right for each citizen to voice their wishes on what future their country undertakes. This would be in the way of a referendum, where everyone has one vote and everyone's vote counts. I fail to see how our right to select the government of his/her choice is compromised. Surely an example of Bermuda choosing their government was in 98 when the PLP came into power? If that's not an example of democracy and freedom to choose one's government, I don't know what is.

I, like many other Bermudian citizens are against independence for the simple reason of there being too many unknowns. I do not have faith in the current government, taking us to the promised land, when they can't get a grip on other issues, such as crime, housing and education to name a few. Nothing in the PLP's 7 year track record inspires enough confidence in me to want them to undertake something as massive as a countries independence, especially since they have failed so miserably with things like the Berkley project.

Mr. Smith, you write, "However, no matter how much I choose to argue the case for Independence, a recent poll found that 66 percent of all Bermudians do not want independence. This percentage included 52 percent of black voters – the PLP support base – and 85 percent of Bermuda's white voters. But what is most curious, from my point of view, is that these same Bermudians stated that if an election were to be held at the time the poll was taken, they would re-elect the PLP, the party that proposed Independence in the first place."

What you should be asking is "Why is the PLP so afraid to have the vote on independence a completely separate issue?" One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Your answer is clear from your own comments. People don't want independence; however the majority still wishes the PLP government in power. The government is a body which is to be the voice of the people; they are solely there to carry out the wishes of the electorate, not the other way around. Do you honestly believe that the reson for the PLP winning in '98 was due to the electorate wanting independence? Independence wasn't even brough up until after Alex Scott became dictator, Crap, I meant Premier (Oops did I say crap out loud?), aside from it being on the books, it was a dormant issue, and I certianly don't remember reading that in the last election platform. Alex Scott along with Independence are two things that the PLP have rammed down our throats in the last few years whether we wanted them or not. Lets end the independence debate once and for all by referendum. Then maybe we can spend all this energy that's been wasted on independence on some of the other more important social issues that face our Island.

[Chris Broadhurst on 20.10.05 at 08:56]

I have yet to hear one good solid reason for going independent - aside from the usual 'national pride' B.S.

Calvin did nothing to change this.

[OnDeWata __/)__ on 20.10.05 at 09:04]

Well Marsha, Calvin is not known for his clarity of thought!!
Some of his illustrations remind me of the movie Animal House - "...was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?"

[bw&p?? on 20.10.05 at 09:33]

You give 'Mr. Smith' far to much respect by addressing him in this fashion. His diatribe is extremely disrespectful to the intelligence of Bermudians and as such, at the most, should be called 'Cal'. At best he's just another PLP puppet beating their tyranical drum...another of the crowd of tyrants to be beaten back by those they are intent on oppressing with deception, arrogance and theivery. Enough is enough.

[Git on 20.10.05 at 09:41]

Well done, Ms. Wiggins.

Yet again, we the electorate are being insulted and disrespected. Those who oppose the path this administration have chosen are considered ignorant. Mr. Smith is only articulating, in plain language, what the 'P' alluded to when he said the BFR signatories did not know what they were signing.

That we who don’t ‘think like them’ are stupid.

I’ve come to believe folks like Mr. Scott & Mr. Smith and their pro-independence camp think of themselves as visionaries. They foresee that history will shine brightly on them as bold, free-thinking revolutionaries once they have blindly rammed the country into independence against its will.

I've got news for them. If they continue down the path in this quixotic fashion, history will look back on THEM as the fools.

And no, Mr. Smith, it’s not because you’re black. It’s because you’re wrong.

[chapa on 20.10.05 at 09:53]

I think you will find that the PLP did not actually have a platform before the last election - except perhaps for a glossy pamphlet released a couple of days before the election.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the leader of the PLP before the election, Jennifer Smith, stated categorically that independence would not be an issue during this term of office and possibly not during the next.

So the PLP hierachy, not only ousted their leader moments after she had successfully lead them to a second victory - but have also reneged on her statement about independence.

What else are they not telling us.

[Marsha Wiggins on 20.10.05 at 09:57]

TJL, You make a good point that not everyone has “an equal amount to lose” by going independent. However, we’d better hope those very struggling families will secure an improved educational system, housing, social services, counseling, etc. so that they may be able to look forward to better opportunities for their children in the future—and they will need the same advantages as those who have them now—college, EU passports, for example. I wish the UBP would come in with a strong voice on how they would make things better for a woman such as you mention. You’re right, people need hope--and a country that works. The PLP is certainly not doing it.

Full Fullish, good letter!

[loki on 20.10.05 at 09:57]

Is it at all surprising that Calvin Smith has written such manure-like drivel? Remember, this nonsense comes from the same guy who bizzarely claimed that independence needed to be dealt with via an election because it was too complicated an issue to be dealt with on its own. Um, still trying to get my head around that one..........

[bw&p?? on 20.10.05 at 10:07]

Manipulator - Definitions

1. One who attempts to influence or manage shrewdly or deviously:

2. One who attempts to tamper with or falsify for personal gain:

Never in my life have I witnessed a more fitting title for Cal, however, Bermudians are far too intelligent to become a victim of his diatribe.

[silencedogood on 20.10.05 at 10:23]

Is Calvin our infamous Bud??? Shallow logic, over-generalization, extreme statements, inconsistency, etc. Possibly, possibly...Oops, did I out him?

Although his entire propaganda piece was laced with moronic statements I found the statements trying to bootstrap independence to positive feelings towards America the humorously ignorant:

1) There is no reason why if Bermuda wanted to be a territory of the US it couldn't negotiate now;

2) Why swap one territory status for another if his goal is to be independent (clearly he thinks we are stupid enough to fall for this);

3) Being a US territory would probably entail paying US taxes, being subject to jurisdiction and regulations--all things IB came to bermuda to get away from. Good call Cal.

4) Why does he assume the US government would automatically protect Bermuda? The tourists would have evacuated and that would constitute the obligatory responsibilities of the government. Realistically the US would probably send troops but you can't count on that. Politics and a number of other factors would weigh in. Maybe Cal should take a trip to Darfur. The US military's job is to stay busy taking care of US citizens and will help out if it has the time, not because Bermuda is Bermuda.

I was appalled by the comparisons between the UK's nominal and passive ownership of a territory and Hitler's Germany systematically killing millions. It is frightening that anyone has voted for someone who would make such a comparison. Wake up people.

[Yet Another Limey on 20.10.05 at 10:29]

National pride is of huge importance to any nation.

I think there are too many 'chicken littles' in the community who think the sky will fall in if Bermuda goes independent. It (probably) won't.

Going independent will allow the government to use the advantage of its small size and majority government (as it’s a two party system one party has to have a majority) to become more flexible to the needs of it’s people and for that matter the needs of international business and of tourism. This, if done right, will allow Bermuda to guarantee it’s wealthy status well into the future.

[Lost in Flatts on 20.10.05 at 10:30]

So good to see other people reacted as I did to reading the letter. I will give Calvin credit, he has a line, and he sticks to it. He's not a half bad writer either. But his ideology is so set that he cannot see anything else, he has blinders to the truth. Independence, to him, is the only goal for bermuda, and we should sacrifice everything to achieve it.

I actually interviewed Calvin a few years ago. We don't agree on many things, but unlike so many people he is more than willing to talk about his beliefs with those that don't share them, and he is a passionate man. Its just unfortunate that his ideas do seem a bit out of date.

[Big Bad Wolf ^..^ on 20.10.05 at 10:35]

Marsha are you still living in the Boston area? Nice to see you on the site,I hope your still painting.Excellent piece for the site,before the hand over of Hong Kong I was a supporter of Independence as our British Overseas passport was basically a third British class document.It would have been better that all Bermudians were granted EU status instead of the cynical application process.I think to date there are about 3,000 of us with EU passports.My view is like yours why cut off access to 25 countries for Bermudians to become a micro island nation.Its really simple chained to the rock through Independence or 25 countries to live and work in if things go wrong in our narrow based economy.

[jake on 20.10.05 at 10:44]

While some of the people you label as old school are, I do not think you can place them all into the same bucket.

Brown and Browne-Evans for example are not allies, nor am I certain share their view on independence.

I agree with bud that there is a need for more people to join in public service.

I hope that when they do come forward we can grow beyond the blatent partisanship and false criticism that I see so often.

I have said it many times, but it is worth repeating: empty criticism only weakens your valid points when they are being made. Fair blows made and landed are much more effective and respected.

[Miller High Life-Better than Bud on 20.10.05 at 11:24]

The bottom line is that the PLP want to get this island independent, and they'll spout any bullshit to get to it. That is the real point. They don't take anything they say seriously or intend to uphold any of it, as long as they can get the black electorate to vote them into office again. Once they achieve this, well the sky's the limit, massive corruption that makes what's been going on look like kid's play, a police force that is a private little army, statues of Alex Scott and his cabinet lining East Broadway. Nevermind that his will drive away international business, and finally kill tourism.

P.S.
I'm a historian by training, and the Monroe Doctrine, give me a break. It's a sad commentary that a man that ignorant has a hand in running Bermuda.

[Sergio on 20.10.05 at 11:30]

Independence = Democratically elected leader is the highest official in the land, not some Limey from England...i think :)

[Sergio on 20.10.05 at 11:41]

Here's what i dont get. Grant Gibbons says:

"Mr. Scott has no right to go to London and talk about how the Island might resolve its Independence issue without first talking to Bermudians about any “unique solution”.

And then Alex Scott says he:

"queried if the British would give fair consideration if the decision to go to Independence by a unique method agreed by the people of Bermuda was submitted"

So, in essence, Scott went to the U.K. to ask if would be ok if they used this method...sounds like he's asking for permission. Sounds like something you wouldn't have to do if you were independent.

If we were independent, it wouldn't matter what Britain thought about the method because they wouldn't have any control over it.

I, myself, am still undecided on the issue. I'm just trying to point out one of the benefits of independence.

[Martin on 20.10.05 at 11:56]

As we get closer to the end of this debate, indeed as we get closer to a General Election in any event, the true colours of Scott come to the fore.

I have to say that there is truly an unsavoury side to this man, that goes outside of what is accepted as the usual political game - and I believe that makes him very dangerous indeed.

The decisions so far that effectivly remove the rights of the individual, i.e. the right to sell one's property to who you wish, the right to gamble on slot machines, the perceived threat of removing the right to free speech ("watch the Queen's Speech") are but the tip of the iceberg for a man intent on control.

Tim Wise argued that the fear of getting a Robert Mugabe if we go Independent is a "negative sterotype" when thinking about blacks. Tim may be right. My worry is that we do not need Independence to get a Mugabe - I think he is aleady here.

I am in full agreement with Marsha's comments.

When she says, however, that "Mr. Smith fails to see that Bermudians, given the facts, can make a sound decision for themselves", I have the awful suspicion that Alex does indeed understand that, but chooses to ignore that in his continuing thrust for what he wants.

[silencedogood on 20.10.05 at 13:11]

TLJ and Marsha--maybe everyone doesn't have as much to lose, but they will not gain under independence. If someone is not making it in a robust economy which offers a wide variety of career paths, how would they make it when the main economic engine leaves taking everything but fishing and tourism with it? Being poor is relative. I have friends in Barbados who would love to live in the "poor" parts of Bermuda.

[Marsha Wiggins on 20.10.05 at 13:22]

(Yet Another Limey): "Going independent will allow the government to use the advantage of its small size and majority government (as it’s a two party system one party has to have a majority) to become more flexible to the needs of it’s people and for that matter the needs of international business and of tourism. This, if done right, will allow Bermuda to guarantee it’s wealthy status well into the future."

Please tell us how. It seems they've had this opportunity already.

[silencedogood on 20.10.05 at 13:22]

"So, in essence, Scott went to the U.K. to ask if would be ok if they used this method...sounds like he's asking for permission. Sounds like something you wouldn't have to do if you were independent.

If we were independent, it wouldn't matter what Britain thought about the method because they wouldn't have any control over it.

I, myself, am still undecided on the issue. I'm just trying to point out one of the benefits of independence."

Posted by Sergio on 20.10.05 at 11:41

Sergio, how is this a benefit? The premiere knows full well that a majority of Bermudians; white and black, PLP and UBP, etc.; are against independence. He knows that a referendum is the preferred method to decide the issue and that if it wasn't for his dedicated use of his position as premiere that Independence wouldn't even be an issue. In short, he knows that democratically he will lose.

Therefore he's trying to maneuver around the defeat of an independence referendum by using other available political tools, such as going to the UK and getting them to approve his idea which would give him more leverage to mandate it as the method of decision. He thinks it would pass this way.

I would define that as an attempted subversion of the will of the people. Sure that would be easier in an independent Bermduda. Is that really a benefit?

[SmokingGun on 20.10.05 at 13:23]

Is this what they mean by "Trash Talk"?
Let's trash what we have and if we find out that we screwed up then we'll just call on the US to bail us out.
First of all as much as I like the US, I do not want Bermuda to be exposed to the US in any way more than just a trusted friend.

I'm starting to understand why Alex Scott thinks no-one understands what a referendum really is. No one in his party can or will explain to him that just because he has the keys to the car the rules of road cannot be ignored. It's the blind leading the blind and we all know what happens to blind drivers.

Very good piece Ms. Wiggins. And Full Fullish I look forward to seeing your letter in the paper.

[OnDeWata __/)__ on 20.10.05 at 13:28]

As has been pointed out by many...If Independence DOES become a reality:
- It is certainly NOT going to help solve Bermuda's racial ills.
- It won't stop the country's hyper-inflated real estate market from spiraling out of control.
- It won't stop the evisceration of all our beautiful open spaces to make way for more building.

Maybe that's why so many are more skeptical than Cal is!

[Sergio on 20.10.05 at 14:14]

silencedogood,

the point was that, with regards to ANY issue (even non-independence issues), if the country were independent there would be no reason for the country's leader to go to an external mother country to ask for permission with regards to local affairs in Bermuda.

in regards to the method that he is proposing, are you saying that it is going to somehow change the balance in favour or against independence? if you think this is the case, explain your logic.

[Full Fullish on 20.10.05 at 14:35]

Yet another Limey -
"Going independent will allow the government to use the advantage of its small size and majority government (as it’s a two party system one party has to have a majority) to become more flexible to the needs of it’s people and for that matter the needs of international business and of tourism."

In what way has Great Britian hindered Bermuda in terms of flexibility? How has being a dependent territory stopped or impeded international business, government decisions and the likes? The only thing that Britian interferes with, if you call it that, is by retaining ownership of The commisioner of police, the auditor general, etc. IMO, this is a good thing, a VERY good thing. It keeps corrupt governments in check. Not to say we have one of those....oh wait...

[Full Fullish on 20.10.05 at 14:40]

Sergio - "If we were independent, it wouldn't matter what Britain thought about the method because they wouldn't have any control over it."

One thing that does make me take notice of, the way the PLP are acting, I'm very grateful there is a higher power, could you imagine what would happen without anyone to answer to? Do you think they would even be considering giving us a referendum no matter how much of a fuss we made? Not trying to sway your view on independence, we all need to make that decision, this is just how I feel....

[ace on 20.10.05 at 15:48]

I loved this clanger:

"I explained that we purchase food from the United States, Canada and the Caribbean with dollars that have been earned by the tourist and international finance industries. I went on to point out that precious little of the money we earn and the food we buy with it comes from dear old England."

Firstly, this is a serious oversimpflification of local economics, but I guess Mr. Smith's analogy of speaking to a child is quite apt given his opinion of the intelligence of Bermudians.

Secondly, I LOVE the way he has changed International Business (IB) into "international finance industries". What's up with that? Clearly he doesn't want to give credit where credit is due.

Thirdly...he is WRONG. Absolutely WRONG.

One of the main reason these "international finance industries" are domiciled in Bermuda is political stability. It is a direct consequence of Bermuda being a colony of Britain. It is about time that Mr. Smith is honest about this fact.

So, those dollars buying our groceries are indeed derived from dear old England, however indirectly.

It sure isn't tourism that is going to feed us. That is going down the toilet at an ever increasing rate, nothwithstanding the PLP's claim every six months or so that they have turned the industry around.

So...we get to eat because of tourism (lol) and IB. Yet IB has consistently come out and said that independence is not something they want and support (notwithstanding the fact that their real opinions are ignored and watered down, dishonesty replaces it in the BIC report and every time "P" opens his mouth on the subject.)

Independence is a potential threat to our status as a desired location for "international finance industries" to operate from. Logically, according to Calvin Smith, it is therefore a potential threat to our ability to eat.

[Yet Another Limey on 20.10.05 at 16:17]

Full Fullish -
In what way has Great Britian hindered Bermuda in terms of flexibility?

To make any change to the constitution, Bermuda must go to the UK to ask permission to change the law. (Which, admittedly, is always granted as the UK rarely cares what actually goes on here). Now if Bermuda wanted to change it’s laws to try and entice some of the banking and international business away from the city of London, I doubt the UK would be quite so obliging.

[calm and collective on 20.10.05 at 16:21]

It's all racism, nothing is ever going to change. I mean come on, 99% of the white people on the island are saying to themselves I knew this is what was going to happen if the PLP were elected. And 99% of the black people would prefer the PLP over the UPB no matter how corrupt and inept they are. The same applies to independence whites look at a connection with the U.K. as security and a way to maintain prosperity. Blacks see it as still somehow being ruled by the white man. If Bermuda was somehow by the wave of a magic wand the colony of an African country the roles would be the same but completely reversed. There will never to one Bermuda, but a black and a white one. The only thing we can all do is try to do what is best for the economy of Bermuda and your standard of living. If this is not done I think alot of people will be leaving in the next couple of years.

[It Doesn't Matter on 20.10.05 at 16:30]

I'm not concerned for what Calvin said.

But I am concerned that many people on this site equate Bermuda's "dependence" with her prosperity. There are tons of things wrong with Bermuda, politically and socially. None of those things started with PLP governance. Yet it seems that is the message being pushed on this site.

On one hand we have a PLP government that, I agree, lacks some essential leadership skills. On the other hand there's a tyrannical, colonizing oppressor who does almost nothing for us. You are grateful the PLP does not possess my idea of leadership skills. Independence would have been a foregone conclusion. As well as a number of other changes.

I dont understand the compulsion to remain attached to a country like England. I dont see Westminster as a model place. I dont see Britian as having a bright history.

There are some who suggest there is no reason for independence other than the national pride "BS". There are some that say Bermuda should not go independent under PLP leadership. What is ironic, is that all those comments are sparked by national pride in a place thousands of miles from Bermuda's shores.

There will always be a divide on this issue.

In the red corner there are those like me, who are pro-independence. My reasoning has much to do with self-determination. I want 'my' people to run 'my' country. I dont wish to be under any form of subservience, or allegiance, to a place I openly don't like. I am not affected by any argument that Bermuda would falter in its independence. I see most of what has been said against independence as a scare tactic.

In the blue corner there sits most on this site. You spew tales of economic horrors which await us in independence. You focus on materialism. And I know why you do. You can't help it. Your base is economic. Everything you see is viewed through money-spectacles.

There are some in the blue corner who are even more cunning. They say Bermuda has social ills that need fixing before it goes independent. Yet I think those social ills are the result of Western world thinking. A thinking which was largely helped by Great Britian's colonial, dictatorial history.

I am not concerned how adament those in the blue corner are that Bermuda remains attached to the colonizer. I simply hope that those in the blue corner will at least fess up and say they don't want Bermuda to be independent because they would feel psychologically uncomfortable being in a Republic of Bermuda with black leadership. Or any leadership.

The blue corner very rarely fesses up to anything. Think about it.

Bermuda's divide on this issue is created solely because of the racial demographic here. Let's admit it. Black majority in any independent country cannot be good for those in the blue corner.

Now you'll deny it -- turn on your autopilot responses.

Should you be trusted to prevent my people's progression?

[H Reardon on 20.10.05 at 16:52]

"Going independent will allow the government to use the advantage of its small size and majority government (as it’s a two party system one party has to have a majority) to become more flexible to the needs of it’s people and for that matter the needs of international business and of tourism. This, if done right, will allow Bermuda to guarantee it’s wealthy status well into the future."

Posted by Yet Another Limey on 20.10.05 at 10:29

Yet Another,

International business, particularly (re)insurance, has trades on its credit rating. Currently the island has a AA rating from S&P. No company on the island can have a higher credit rating than the country. In the event that Bermuda went independent it is likely that Bermuda would be downgraded--therefore downgrading highly rated international business located here. This could be devastating to the island.

Further, Bermuda's legal system is based on English common law, with the ultimate court for a major dispute in London. Given the size of some deals that go down here, parties would be less likely to complete these big deals if their ultimate appeal is on Bermuda.

As a member of the international business community, these are the two issue I heard brought up the most.

"3) Being a US territory would probably entail paying US taxes, being subject to jurisdiction and regulations--all things IB came to bermuda to get away from. Good call Cal."

Posted by silencedogood.

I believe US protectorates (Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Guam, USVI, Marshall Is., Micronesia and one other island in S. Pac) do not pay US federal taxes, nor do they have US regulation. The Marshall Islands have been a low regulation banking island for a while now.

[Sergio on 20.10.05 at 17:16]

Full Fullish,

I guess many of us are still not ready to live in a full-blown democracy... always need mummy britain to take care of us.

It's kind of sad that many of you think that our country doesn't have what it takes to run itself (without external control). I mean, if it's that bad, why aren't any of you trying to help run things to make them better?

[Amin Swan on 20.10.05 at 17:18]

Here we go again...in 2005 arguing why we don't want to leave the shadows of Mother Britian, spare me. This passport argument and access to Europe argument is hog wash. For the many years that Bermudians had no status in England or Europe, our community was able to educate their young over their with no problems. Bermuda has blossomed for many years into a successful country without this "priviledged" access to Europe.

Here are a few reasons why I think Bermuda should be Independent.

1. The purest form of democracy in not a damn referrendum, it's being Independent.

2. Any Government elected in Bermuda will never be looked at seriously by the outside world nor will our Country. We will never have any leaders in the likes of JFK, Churchill, who left legacies un-matched.

3. The day that a child born in England can have their ambition to be the Govenor of Bermuda realized before my Bermudian child is simply nutts!

In 2015 when everyone is housed, our kids are getting the best education, tourism numbers hit 600,000 per year and the International business is booming, what will be the reasons for not Being Independent?

I bet there will be many...

[bw&p?? on 20.10.05 at 17:40]

Amin -
"For the many years that Bermudians had no status in England or Europe, our community was able to educate their young over their with no problems. Bermuda has blossomed for many years into a successful country without this "priviledged" access to Europe."

Would these be the same years that we were a colony? Are these the same years when we were living under the alledged "shadow of Mother Britain"...so you agree that we 'blossomed' while in a supposed 'shadow'?

If your going to present an argument mate at least make it a logical one...but perhaps, as we've seen (or more to the point, NOT seen) there are no logical reasons for independence.

[black nationalist on 20.10.05 at 17:46]

The Independence being talk about is fake Independence not the truth. How can we go Independent with foreign police, judges and civil servants whose parents are not born here. they are robbing us blind. True independence means putting foreigners in their place not with ammunition in our face.

[bw&p?? on 20.10.05 at 18:02]

Dats right Black Nationalist!!..and while we're at it we can tell those foreigners to not send us imports..we can grow our own food!...and, um um, we don't need no passports cause we don't need to go to foreign countries to have fun...we gots St. David's and when we're independent we won't even need our passports to go there anymore!!

[Marsha on 20.10.05 at 18:18]

Sergio, we do have a democratically elected leader.

Martin, we do not have a Robert Mugabe; that is a nasty negative stereotype we could do without.

Calm and collected, I think saying 99% of either black or white Bermudians will behave in a stereotypical way over anything is far from reasonable.

It doesn’t matter, consistently posters have recognized that problems did not start with the PLP, but they’ve had seven years to work on them, without much to show for it and many situations deteriorating. “A tyrannical, colonizing oppressor”? Right now? Who? What other changes besides independence do you advocate? “Your” people running “your” country sounds as though it would leave a lot of others out in the cold. The entire island ignores its economic base at the peril of every single person on it. This is a global economy, and we have to face that. Right now we’ve got tourism and international business going for us, with the former in decline and the latter realistically threatened. Those are two genuinely scary situations. Bermuda does have significant social ills. I for one would not feel the least psychologically uncomfortable under black leadership. That’s really not the issue, believe it or not.

Amin Swan, the access to Europe is not hog wash. College is available but restricted in the U.S. (you must now be a full-time student, for instance). And most countries do not simply let anyone in to work. When you call for independence without a referendum, that is hardly pure democracy. Independence does not produce great leaders. Great leaders produce great countries. I hope more such individuals step up to bat.

[JJ on 20.10.05 at 18:44]

In some ways Bermuda is almost too successful to go independent. Had we been like a Barbados 40 odd years ago with nothing but a tourist industry and maybe some basic exports (sugar, rum, etc) we could have gone independent and spent the last 40 years building a country, Maybe we might even have come up with the idea of attracting insurance companies here with special tax deals etc. Maybe we might have built a decent education system and been able to offer companies a well educated work force.
But, no we didn't. To even take the chance that IB will leave an independent Bermuda is not a chance I want to take.
BTW, I don't believe in the scare mongering that IB would leave the next day. It would be a slow drift, like tourism's demise when the costs and advantages of being here disappear with higher taxes to pay for the extra costs of independence.
It's too late.

[Uncle Elvis on 20.10.05 at 19:02]

Oh. My. God.

This is unbelievable.

We have to go to England for stuff. So what? Honestly, what is so bad about that? "Mummy Britain"?

"tyrannical, colonizing oppressor"?
How exactly have they opressed us?

You want your kid to be Governor? Why? Oh, yeah... it's every kid's dream to be a figurehead with no real power, except to appoint a couple of posts. Ridiculous.

"we do have a democratically elected leader"

Um... not really. Jennifer Smith would be our democratically elected leader. We DO, however, have a demogratically elected Government, for whatevre THAT'S worth.

How exactly are judges robbing us blind? Huh?
"The purest form of democracy in not a damn referrendum, it's being Independent"

So one man/one vote on an incredibly important topic, with no other strings, such as Party loyalty, etc., isn't democracy? How do you figure that?

"It's all racism..."
"Blacks see it as still somehow being ruled by the white man."

So this would be racism on WHOSE part?

"The same applies to independence whites look at a connection with the U.K. as security and a way to maintain prosperity."

And this is a bad thing... how?
Don't we ALL want to maintain prosperity?

"2015 when everyone is housed..."
Dream on, man. Not the way we're going...

"Any Government elected in Bermuda will never be looked at seriously by the outside world nor will our Country. We will never have any leaders in the likes of JFK, Churchill, who left legacies un-matched"

Now here, you're right. If we go Independant, we will never be looked at seriously by the outside world.

Um... just a note:

We're the size of a small town! Do you REALLY think that somewhere like America is EVER going to take us seriously?

"without external control"
How much control do you think Britain has on us? Seriously.

I can't go on. I'm in shock. I... I cannot believe that this sort of talk is coming from allegedly intelligent people.

Unbelievable.

[SmokingGun on 20.10.05 at 19:02]

"Should you be trusted to prevent my people's progression?"
Posted by It Doesn't Matter on 20.10.05 at 16:30

That is the one question all of Bermuda, black, white and in between, old, young, national or international can answer of it's current government, the PLP. Yes, they can be trusted to prevent the progression of it's people. Outside of Alaska Hall, they seem to constantly forget they've got a mixed race family.

I know it's totally not what you meant but then again I actually havn't got a clue as to what you really meant to say anyway.

If the PLP and it's supporters want to hold any credibility going forward with the idea of Indepenedence then they need to show they can be trusted to do what is right by all of Bermuda not just by their single-minded agenda. The world is watching and if you think it's important to impress the rest of the world before your own fellow citizens then you will never be taken seriously. And if you want to use the gang approach, ie demographic majority, then you'll only create more insecurity and needless fears at a huge cost.

Prove to your people you can do the right things by cleaning up your own back yard before going off to tell the world how it should be run.

[Sergio on 20.10.05 at 19:11]

Marsha,

I think it's obvious that we have a democratically elected leader and i'm sorry if i didn't make that clear.

But the point is that the democratically elected leader does not possess the highest power in the land. That power belongs to someone who has been elected by the people.

[Sergio on 20.10.05 at 19:19]

Elvis says:

"without external control"
How much control do you think Britain has on us? Seriously. "

Well if it isn't that much control, maybe Britain wouldn't have a problem giving us control over it now would they? I mean, if it's such a miniscule amount of control to us, then surely it's even smaller to a large country like Britain. So why dont they hand it over.

The Governor can still have his house and we can have that little bit of power. And he can have no say in things... just sit there like a good old man and read a book. And we can still have our "dependence" on the Governor, he will just have no power since that's the amount he deserves from our country.

[Marsha on 20.10.05 at 19:21]

Sergio, I stand corrected. As Uncle Elvis has pointed out, we have a democratically-elected government. Alex Scott is a replacement leader.

Please clarify your second sentence: “But the point is that the democratically elected leader does not possess the highest power in the land. That power belongs to someone who has been elected by the people.”

[observor on 20.10.05 at 19:24]

Sergio

"But the point is that the democratically elected leader does not possess the highest power in the land. That power belongs to someone who has been elected by the people."

How do you define "power"? Who do you think has this "power"? Who should have the "power"? In what manner should the "power" be assigned and/or appointed?

[Tim Taylor on 20.10.05 at 19:53]

Here's something I was working on for a newspaper column, but this might be a good time to test the short version on you lot.

The Bermudian Independence Test:

A vocal group of people are very concerned that Bermuda should be Independent, so here is a test that everyone can do - to see, right here, right now, how Independent we can be.

It doesn't matter where you are - at home, at work, out in your favourite pub or restaurant - look around you.

If you can identify one single manufactured object, including the clothes you're wearing or the food you're eating, that isn't foreign, award yourself two Independence Points. If you're at home, walk around and indentify any item - anything at all - that didn't originate abroad or otherwise totally rely on foreigners (this includes the milk in your fridge. This cows are local, but every single piece of equipment used to produce milk, including the packaging, and the trucks to deliver it (and the gas they burn), and the supermarket buildings and the freezer shelves, and even the paper money or plastic card you use to buy it, and so on... are foreign).

Bottom Line: 99.9% of everything you wear, eat, use, live in, drive, watch, work on, play with, or otherwise consume, is imported from foreigners in foreign countries and paid for in foreign currency. Currency we have to earn. From abroad. The Bermuda Dollar is only worth the paper it's printed on because the U.S. graciously allows it to be. You can't trade Bermuda Dollars on any world money market. It's a polite fiction that is tolerated by the Dollar, Yen and Euro. Everything we buy in... let me repeat that. EVERYTHING we buy in has to be paid for in US Dollars or some other hard currency. Bermuda Dollars won't buy you a can of beans in the real word.

It therefore stands to reason that Bermuda is quite possibly one of the most DEPENDENT places on the planet.

So let's be honest about why we like the idea of Independence.

It will make us feel better.

Well, those of us who are older and black. Those of us who are young and black and on the way up a corporate ladder, or a ladder we happen to own as a a tool in our own business are quite frankly, less keen to overturn the boat in the hope of finding a pearl in the bilge.

So it will make some of us feel better. That's it.

Will it make us more powerful on the world stage? Please...

Will it improve our attractiveness to the people who actually supply those crucial dollars in our wage packets? Not likely.

Will it improve any of of the pressing social issues that we all know about? Ha!

Can we feed and clothe ourselves without massive outside help? No way.

Can we do without those foreign dollars, pounds and Euros? You have to be joking.

So, as they said in a U.S. election not too long ago... where's the beef?

If a small but very powerful group of people want this thing, where do they stand to gain? If there was an impressive list of benefits, you can bet we would have been made privy to them. They are notable by their absence. So where's the Money? Who, personally, stands to gain? Because you can bet your bottom dollar that someone does, and let me tell you, it ain't me.

So when you think about the push to Independence, think "Where's the Money". Let me know if you come up with anything. Danged if I can.

[Uncle Elvis on 20.10.05 at 19:54]

"So why dont they hand it over."

Um.. because we, the people of Bermuda, a democratic country, HAVEN'T ASKED FOR IT!

THIS is what the whole referendum debate is about!
It's about whether or not we are going to ask for it.

"The Governor can still have his house and we can have that little bit of power"

What bothers you so much about what the Governor can and can't do?
What exactly is it that you want we, as Bermudians, aren't allowed to do?

[JJ on 20.10.05 at 20:00]

Sergio says

"Well if it isn't that much control, maybe Britain wouldn't have a problem giving us control over it now would they? I mean, if it's such a miniscule amount of control to us, then surely it's even smaller to a large country like Britain. So why dont they hand it over".

No one doubts the Uk's willingness to allow us to take over what little is left in their control. So long as it is the democratic majority decision of the people they will gladly set us "free". The issue is most of us, like the people of Gibraltar, want to stay a British protectorate.

[AMin Swan on 20.10.05 at 21:39]

Uncle Elivis writes:-

You want your kid to be Governor? Why? Oh, yeah... it's every kid's dream to be a figurehead with no real power, except to appoint a couple of posts. Ridiculous.

Uncle Elvis, Ridiculous?

If it slipped your mind, the Govenor is
Commander in Chief...Sure why would'nt I want my kid to be Govenor is he so wished. Don't minimize a Govenor's powers, this man can dissolve parliament if he chose to, and he's not an elected official. Don't talk to me about Democracy.
Many anti-Independence folks love to pick and choose their arguments. Tell me what should I tell my son who wants to be the Govenor of Bermuda? "Well son, we don't have faith in Bermudians to take charge of their own affairs." Sorry........

In the US you MUST be a born American to become Commander in Chief, in Bermuda you cannot be a born Bermudian to be Commander in Chief.....is there something wrong with this picture?
-or- are we too worried about what International Business has done for Bermuda and not what Bermuda has done for International Business.

PS Elvis - show me a small town with a 3 Billion dollar GNP??