Tim Wise: White on White

Last night, around 130 people squeezed into Cathedral Hall to hear visiting author and anti-racism activist, Tim Wise.

Billed as a “white on white” forum, the audience was predominantly white-skinned – and predominantly white-haired too.

Tim’s talk lasted for only an hour. It was followed by two hours of questions and discussion, which would probably have gone on all night if it had been allowed to.

Before I met him, I had the impression that Tim was someone who believes that whites are the biggest obstacle to resolving racial issues. I thought that perhaps he was out to blame white people and make us feel bad about ourselves. After listening to him speak, I no longer believe that to be the case.

The key points of his talk were as follows:

• Don’t ask what it means to be black - whites can never properly understand anyway. When a black person tells us we don’t understand, don’t take that as a slight or an insult, just recognise it as a fact. However, show a willingness to try to understand. Whites should not concern themselves with what blacks need to do to tackle racism or what blacks think of us – that’s a conversation for the black community and is outside our control.
• Ask yourself what it means to be white. Being white is to benefit from certain presumptions of honesty, competence, legitimacy and belonging that are not afforded to blacks. Use that knowledge to infer what whites should be doing to tackle racism.
• Recognise that as a white person you have the luxury of being able to succeed or fail as an individual, whereas black success or failure is often made a racial issue. Successful whites will rarely be hailed as a credit to white people; whites that fail will rarely have their failure ascribed to their whiteness. Yet often when a black fails, it is cited as proof of the validity of certain negative stereotypes. (Is this why some suggest that if Bermuda becomes independent it may get its very own Robert Mugabe?) Similarly, society often draws attention to the achievements of successful blacks because of their blackness (think of Tiger Woods or Colin Powell).
• Understand that as a white person you rarely wonder whether any criticism directed at you is because of the colour of your skin, whereas for many black people this is always in the back of their mind. Whether it’s Oprah Winfrey being refused admission to Hermes in Paris or Alex Scott receiving an obnoxious email from Tony Brannon, ask yourself why blacks instinctively question whether something is genuine or racial? While it’s fine to criticise the Premier’s response, it’s just as important to understand the context in which it was made. This is something that whites find difficult to do, because they have never had to regard criticism with the same suspicion. The only way for whites to ensure that their criticism of blacks is judged on merit alone is for them to make certain that their other actions clearly show where they are coming from. It may be regrettable that whites have to prove themselves in this way, but that’s just something we have to deal with.
• Understand that racial inequality is often perpetuated not by active negative discrimination, but by subconscious preferences that can cause us to favour people who look like we do. We all have a tendency to accentuate the positive characteristics of those who remind us of ourselves while accentuating the negative characteristics of those who do not. In this way, even those who are not bigots can end up making bigoted decisions. We may poke fun at George Bush because of his difficulties with the English language, yet we put this down to him being from Texas, or else we consider it a sign that he’s just a regular guy. But how would we regard the same failing if the President was black?
• Recognise that notions of the superiority of whites have been internalised – by both whites and blacks. Tim told a story of how he boarded a flight one day to discover that both his pilots were black. His immediate reaction was, "Oh my God, can these guys fly this thing?" He knew that this reaction didn’t come from either his upbringing or his intellect, both of which told him it was false. Yet still, the notion had somehow become embedded in his subconscious. He said that he has observed similar reactions in black people who have discovered, for example, that they were to be treated by a black doctor. The only way to deal with these subconscious biases is to recognise them when they surface, then confront them.
• Recognise that being an ally to blacks means letting go of your own sense of surety, listening to what blacks say and being prepared to believe them. While on an individual level, blacks may indeed perceive racism where there is none, as a group we must respect them enough to believe that they do not. Being an ally means following the lead of people of colour and allowing them to set the agenda. Motivation is also critical: you shouldn’t do this because you want to “save” black people, or because you want black people to like you, but because you’re as angry about the damage that privilege and racism has done to whites as blacks are about what it has done to them.
• Affirmative action is necessary but it’s not about giving preference to someone solely because they are black. Tim likened the search for opportunity to a race where one runner is shackled. Halfway through the race, the shackles are taken off. Is that enough to give both competitors an equal opportunity to win? Affirmative action is about going out of your way to find suitably qualified blacks – not promoting them at the expense of more-qualified whites. As one audience member remarked, the whiteness of expats is sometimes defended on the basis that they are hired from majority white countries such as the US, UK or Canada. One way of increasing the number of blacks in the expat workforce might be for those companies to start recruiting from the Caribbean too.
• Blacks and whites approach racism from different angles. Whites tend to view race relations – their interpersonal relationships with others – as important. In contrast, blacks consider the way they are treated by institutions – the outcomes and structures that are perpetuating inequality – to be a bigger problem. Hence whites who get on well with blacks on a daily basis may not consider racism to be a big deal, whereas those blacks do because they do not see the personal relationships as the crux of the problem.
• Racism is both an ideology and a system. While you may not be ideologically racist, in that you may not hold racist views, you may still be benefiting from systems which continue to perpetuate inequality.
• Expectations of change often get ahead of reality. This can lead to frustration at black governments by both blacks and whites, as well as a backlash from those governments. (It seems this is true not only in Bermuda, but at the local level in the US too.) Nevertheless, recognise that progress will not just happen with the passing of time, but that it requires individuals to stand up and make change happen.

One audience member asked whether whites should go out of their way to develop black friends. Tim suggested that although you should give yourself the opportunity to get to know black people, you shouldn’t do this in a way that’s phoney or artificial. He encouraged whites to participate deeply in black-organised events, rather than at just a superficial level, and be willing to go outside their comfort zones to do so.

Nick Duffy asked whether the language used to describe blacks and whites was appropriate in a multi-racial society. Tim said that while those with multi-racial backgrounds should define themselves in whatever way they see fit, they should also recognise that they have no control over how they are perceived by others. They are likely to find themselves considered members of the opposite group by both blacks and whites.

At around 9.30pm, one audience member became visibly frustrated. “This is all sugar coating,” he shouted. “Let’s get a forum going!”. He questioned why he should have sympathy for black businessmen when there was “no evidence that any of them” plough the money they make back into their businesses, preferring to buy flashy BMWs instead. This prompted some murmurings of agreement but also hostility from several people. Tina Nash asked who he was to say what blacks should be spending their money on. Another pointed out that blacks lived under a system that put them down and denied them a vote for centuries. “Not for the last 40 years!” he countered. “You can’t overturn 400 years of history in 40 years,” retorted someone else.

Tim Wise is giving another talk at 8pm this evening (Wednesday) at St. Paul’s Centennial Hall on the corner of Court and Victoria Streets. All are encouraged to attend. As last night’s talk was directed at whites, it will be interesting to hear what Tim says and how the discussion differs when there are more blacks present.

» A full transcript of Tim's talk is available here.

Comments

[SmokingGun on 12.10.05 at 15:40]

Thanks for the write up Limey. I can see why you had to take the day off! I hope you will put this in towmorrow's RG as your weekly comment.

[brutus on 12.10.05 at 15:58]

Hey limey this guy is talking about places like the U.S., Britain and the like. Hardly any of that applies here. For the love of god, we have a black government, almost all the judges are black, and there are plenty of well off black business men and tons of black landowners. It fustrates me when some yank or limey comes here and starts belting off shit that applies to their country and not here. I'm 30, white and have grown up here and have been discriminated against by black throughout my childhood, I could recount numerous stories when I was a kid going to school on the bus. Just remember that I would never go to the U.S. or U.K. and apply the situation here to those societies. I did not grow up there and therefore have no right to make indepth analysis about those places. Maybe you should remeber that.

[Bud on 12.10.05 at 16:01]

"Hey limey this guy is talking about places like the U.S., Britain and the like. Hardly any of that applies here. For the love of god, we have a black government, almost all the judges are black, and there are plenty of well off black business men and tons of black landowners. It fustrates me when some yank or limey comes here and starts belting off shit that applies to their country and not here."

As a black Bermudian, I'd say that 100% of what he had to say applies to Bermuda. I'd buy him a beer if I could.

[brutus on 12.10.05 at 16:08]

Bud = another black bermudian wallowing in self pity.

[Phil on 12.10.05 at 16:10]

brutus

See you at tonight's meeting, then? You never know, you might learn something.

[Phil on 12.10.05 at 16:12]

brutus

Bud = another black bermudian wallowing in self pity.

Congratulations. You've just demonstrated why what Tim had to say is applicable to Bermuda too.

[Onion on 12.10.05 at 16:31]

Brutus,

I just read Limey's post. You totally miss the point and your defensive reaction to Bud is unfortunate. I have to honestly say that 100% of what Tim Wise said (or what Limey reported he said above) applies to Bermuda. The fact that you were discriminated against by blacks growing up does not in any way negate what he has said.

[SmokingGun on 12.10.05 at 16:33]

Brutus, they say one's character is usually set by the time they hit 31. That gives you just one year to get your head out of the sand and realize that Bermuda is a microcosm of all that goes on in the US and GB.

If what you are saying is Bermuda is more sophisticated and advanced in it's racial equalities then maybe you have a point but regarding relations, we've still got a long way to go. And don't forget the path is really a two way street.

[Bud on 12.10.05 at 16:46]

Brutus,

"Bud = another black bermudian wallowing in self pity."

I'm a college educated professional with a combined family income of $200k and a $1.5million dollar house. Sorry to disappoint you.

[SmokingGun on 12.10.05 at 16:52]

"I'm a college educated professional with a combined family income of $200k and a $1.5million dollar house. Sorry to disappoint you."

"I'd buy him a beer if I could."

Bud - So accomplished and yet you havn't turned 18 yet? :)

[Point Finger on 12.10.05 at 17:07]

Limey,

Thanks for the write up, because of you the message will reach so much more than the 130 that attended. A postive approach is the only way to move forward on racial issues.

[Slowhand on 12.10.05 at 17:33]

I think that some of us at the meeting felt that he could have concentrated more on the local specific issues, not taking away from what was actually said. Perhaps we expected too much from the one meeting. I think Mr Rouja would agree as he seemed quite intent throughout the meeting in trying to apply what Wise said to our local experience. I'd be interested in further meetings without a doubt.

[shipstones on 12.10.05 at 17:46]

I believe it aplies 100% to Bermuda and Brutus is an example. If I still played football I could play for a black team if i was good enough. If I still played cricket i could join a black team if I was good enough. If I was religious I could join a black church but my age and non religious beliefs preclude me from doing so. I could play at Ocean View instead of Mid Ocean but I am sorry to say I am not giving up such a great course to play a nine hole course.
What's left? Any suggestions?

[shipstones on 12.10.05 at 17:48]

If he did suggest Alex Scott had no significant power, then I believe he is very misguided about Bermuda's power blocks!

[Adam on 12.10.05 at 17:50]

Am I the only one that sees this comment as very condescending...

'Understand that as a white person you rarely wonder whether any criticism directed at you is because of the color of your skin, whereas for many black people this is always in the back of their mind.'

'Always in the back of their mind......'

'Always' has to be a bit strong don’t you think? Doesn’t that imply that Black people are unable to distinguish their own actions, performance and abilities from the colour of their skin?

Of course what else isn’t implied there is that Tim is talking about criticism from a White person, not just criticism from anyone.

I’m not saying that isn’t a partially valid statement but 'ALWAYS'....I find that a condescending statement.

As for this comment....

'Tim told a story of how he boarded a flight one day to discover that both his pilots were black.'....

I've been there, try flying LIAT and I can honestly say that 'can these guys fly this thing' has never been my first thought. Does that mean Im a better person than Tim? I think some better examples could have been used there to illustrate his point.

Sorry to play Devils advocate there, it does sound like the Guy has some valid points and its good to see people actively work towards a better society. But I dont see his words as portrayed here as the solution.

Racism and biggotry are products of our experience (couple your upbringing and eductaion and any other learning process in there). You want to eradicate biggotry then change people's experiences.

How many anti-black racisits live in Black communites, less than live in all white communities. How many anti-white racists live in white communities, less than live in all black communities. When we mix, we learn and with learning comes understanding.

We are slowly becomming a smaller world, people today have a much better understanding of the world and its other inhabitants than our parents had. And our children will be even further along that process.

We will all get there, slowly no doubt, but we will get there.

[loki on 12.10.05 at 17:57]

"And don't forget the path is really a two way street."

I agree absolutely. One of the issues that I have with what Mr. Wise said according to Phil is that he seems be be suggesting the opposite:

"ask yourself why blacks instinctively question whether something is genuine or racial?"

as opposed to:

"Recognise that being an ally to blacks means letting go of your own sense of surety, listening to what blacks say and being prepared to believe them."

He seems to be suggesting that, whilst it's fine and dandy for blacks to view whites with suspicion, whites should take everything that blacks say at face value. Now, I know for an absolute fact that I have been treated differently by some blacks because I am white; indeed, I was actually hounded out of a job by a black office manager until I quit, solely because the office manager didn't like whites and wanted to replace me with someone who fit in with her preferred demographic. How, then, am I supposed to simply smile and unquestionably believe in the sincerity of ALL blacks, anymore than a black person is supposed to believe in the sincerity of ALL whites?

[loki on 12.10.05 at 18:08]

Another issue that I believe warrants discussion is that surely perception should be a two-way street, also? Now, I recognise that this may sound like an odd statement, what I mean is that as much as whites must work to eradicate negative erceptions, the black community must also bear some responsibility for perpetuating some of those negative perceptions work to eradicate behaviours that continue to perpetuate those perceptions: emulating LA street thugs is far too big a part of black youth culture in Bermuda. When you dress like a thug and talk like a thug, why are you surprised when people shun you and treat you like a thug? Jesus, when I was growing up in the UK, I was aware of skinhead thug culture and I would have no one to blame but myself for any negative reactions had I chosen to dress and act like a skinhead in my youth.

[SmokingGun on 12.10.05 at 18:16]

Adam, with a name like that I assume you will no doubt be the first to lead the way.....:)

[SmokingGun on 12.10.05 at 18:36]

Loki,

You are absolutely correct on the issue of appearances and behaviour by the youth of today. This goes for people of all colour. Young Bermudians who try to be like the hip-hop playa's or gangsta rappers do come accross as the street thugs and drug pushers that they seem to try to emulate to many people. But the funny thing is many young white kids try to act out in the same manner which is something I find a little bizarre. For instance the whole mind-set can be belittling and demeaning to women, so should women have to try to respect those who act in that manner? No matter what colour, absolutely not.

Maybe these guys just don't expect people to take them seriously but it raises one thing that might clear up why it was the older crowd that showed up. Either they just don't see a difference anymore or it's not cool to see a difference or maybe even they just don't care.

[jake on 12.10.05 at 18:42]

I am not surprised at Brutus' comments.

I recall very clearly the hell white kids used to catch at my Primary School, and the hell I used to give some of them myself.

We need to be very honest about why some of the white people in today's generation feel a certain distrust when it comes to these events. They have their own personal stories to recount, and I don't doubt for a minute the experiences that Brutus outlines on the bus. I used to be afraid of the bus with all the rough kids too, and I am black from a neighbourhood where we all lived. I was known as a smart kid however, which often = mistrust / abuse. Lucky for me I was a scapper and got more dirty looks than anything.

Brutus, I have been on this website for over a year and what you just contributed brought back memories of what I too am guilty of and witnessed. Clearly your contribution is necessary.

Other than that, I agree 100% with what Tim has articulated. I think we are getting somewhere.

[It Doesnt Matter on 12.10.05 at 18:59]

What is particularly interesting about Mr. Wise's comments is his recognition that blacks don't view racism on an individual interpersonal level.

I have many white friends. I get along well with them. Sometimes more than I do with many of my black friends. But I wouldn't dare claim that because I get on well with my white friends, there is no such thing as racism.

I think with a slight tinkering, I would be able to endorse almost everything Mr. Wise said.

The question is: how many whites will accept his comments as beneficial and worthy of credence? and how many will discount them as being lopsided?

[Bill Cook on 12.10.05 at 19:18]

ItDoesntMatter,

That would depend on how many of them were lobsided no?

[shipstones on 12.10.05 at 19:24]

Yes Bill now comment on what he said based upon Limey's post Duh!

[It Doesnt Matter on 12.10.05 at 19:25]

No. It wouldn't depend on how many of Mr. Wise's comments were lopsided. It would depend on how many people are willing to say they are, notwithstanding their true thoughts.

[Tom on 12.10.05 at 21:38]

Limey Re: "The only way for whites to ensure that their criticism of blacks is judged on merit alone is for them to make certain their actions clearly show where they are coming from." Who is the judge of my actions? Should I have to be anymore certain about my criticism of blacks than I would of my criticism of an employee (any race), family member or friend? It would be more than regrettable the day I have to do that. If my employees, family or friends thought I was giving my black employees and black friends special treatment when it comes to criticism I would be in real trouble quickly. My black friends want to be treated as friends and would probably be the first to let me know if they thought I was giving them special treatment because of their colour. Tim Wise is playing to any guilt feelings whites may have about blacks but there are two sides to the race card and he only peeks at the other side. Civil Rights movement was about Equality and after the movement went beyond working for Equality is when it ran into resistance that appears to be increasing. Why?

[Uncle Elvis on 12.10.05 at 22:56]

I'm on vacation and promised I wouldn't post while on holiday, but... addictive personality and all that.

I'm sure this topic will still be going when I get back, so I'm not going to go in depth, but I DO want to say that I'm pretty much 98% with him on this, from what I've read (Yeah, I was never really good at math either, so the percentages may be off.
One of the things that stood out for me...

"...Understand that as a white person you rarely wonder whether any criticism directed at you is because of the color of your skin..."

I kinda disagree with this in the case of Bermuda. Especially in this day and age. I think White people wonder all the time whether criticism is racially based, these days. I think people, MOST people, black and white, are more aware than we give them credit for.
I'm not saying that White people are saints, or anything like that, I just disagree with the statement.

You know how much I love generalizations.

See you when I get back. Jake, 2¢, we're having coffee. All are welcome.

Call it a ALIB-on-ALIB forum *grin*

[Phil on 12.10.05 at 23:02]

Tom

Who is the judge of my actions?

The black people you are criticising.

Should I have to be anymore certain about my criticism of blacks than I would of my criticism of an employee (any race), family member or friend?

No. But I think what Tim was saying is that if you criticise whites your criticism is likely to be judged on its merits alone. If you criticse blacks, unless they know you are well-intentioned and do not have a racist bone in your body, their first reaction (even if for only a split second) may be to question whether that criticism is genuine or is racial in nature.

He wasn't saying that whites shouldn't criticise blacks, or that they should treat them with kid gloves, just not to be surprised if that criticism is perceived as being racial, however well-intentioned you know yourself to be.

[loki on 12.10.05 at 23:23]

"But I think what Tim was saying is that if you criticise whites your criticism is likely to be judged on its merits alone. If you criticse blacks, unless they know you are well-intentioned and do not have a racist bone in your body, their first reaction (even if for only a split second) may be to question whether that criticism is genuine or is racial in nature."

This touches upon something that I want to say at tonight's CURE forum, but didn't get a chance to before discussion was cut short: it is incredibly naive to think that we can ever resolve society's racial issues without efforts to ensure sincerity on both sides of the fence. The idea that whites either could or should unflinchingly accept the sincerity of blacks, without equivocation, whilst tolerating blacks' suspicion of whites is, frankly, pie in the sky. It ain't gonna happen. Both races need to make the effort to be sincere in their discussions concerning race, and make an effort to convince others of their sincerity. But our politicians must lead by example. How can the black population accept the UBP's sincerity on the issue of race, when the extent of the UBPs public acknowledgement and discussion of race amounts to such a fluffy, non-committal, middle of the road and vague statement such as Grant Gibbons announcing several times that, "we acknowledge that there is unfinished business between the races"? Could they be any more vague if they tried. Likewise, we have a Premier who can't even discuss the issue of race with anything approaching honesty: the bullshit and laughable explanation that he gave over his 'people who look and sound like Tony Brannon' remark was completely dishonest and insincere. If our leaders, who are supposed to lead by example, cannot discuss race issues with honesty and sincerity, what hope do we have as a society?

[blovator on 12.10.05 at 23:50]

Bermudian Black people can say all they like about Tim Wise. If they think that he got them right, thats great.

He doesn't know Bermudian White people though. He got them dead wrong. He acts as if we walk around without eyes or imagination. From when I was very young I was very aware that everything hinged on the Big Difference. I was reminded by kids beating me up after school. I was reminded when I was spat on. I was constantly reminded that what ever I was or had, came to me through my privelegde. Whatever my achievements were came to me as a vile mistake of history.

When a customer at work, while drunk, wrapped his hands around my neck and called me a white bastard, I knew that there was a difference. And I was to blame. Or my Dad or my dead great grand father or however I am supposed to pay for what ever.

Tim "Wise" : Don’t ask what it means to be black - whites can never properly understand anyway.

Me : Horse S%^&*(t. How long have we been fighting this bloody damned thing. Sometimes I don't understand my mother, does that mean I have to fly in a therapist? Some pasty faced consultant who needs a vacation comes down here to tell me I don't understand black people? I live with Black Poeple! I live in the middle of this whole racial mess! And he is going to tell me I have not made up my mind about my situation and that I don't know the people I live with? That I lack the brains and imagination to concieve how other peopel live? Get him out of here. To use a word Alex Scott used quite appropriately in a similar situation - Crap.

What does he mean "don't ask what it means to be black?" What do I say? ALWAYS ASK WHAT IT MEANS TO BE BLACK. And btw you will never completely understand the person closest to you in your life. So stop worrying, stop listening to people like Tim Wise and deal with it.

The Bermudian racial situation is a colidoscope of complexity and attitudes which Tim Wise has only begun to understand. He generalizes about blacks and whites and patronizes them all.

This man says little new. And the new he does say doesn't apply. With all respect to Eva Hodgson - who I have infinitely more respect for - this white on white thing is the most egregious evastion of the issue. Get the consultant out and lets get on with the dialogue.

I have a better thing to worry about - Abolish the Department of ED!

[blovator on 12.10.05 at 23:56]

Loki

No doubt about it. We can not look to politicians of either party for any kind of leadership in this area. They are both supremely compromised by thier own statements, actions and compositions.

If Tony Brannon was all his own race and he sent me an email like that, I'd be racist against him. That is one of the most obnoxious communications I have ever seen.

[loki on 13.10.05 at 00:15]

Blovator,

You should have come to Tim Wise's presentation this evening - it was very eye-opening, not remotely patronizing and definitely thought-provoking. I was sceptical going in, but he makes an extremely compelling (and non-finger pointing) case for white privilege still having an impact today. Now, I do not agree with some of the things that he said that suggested that resolving race issues is a bit of a one-way street, but what he has to say about the benefits of historical privilege being passed-down to whites today, who have nothing to do with the wrongs of the past, is very compelling indeed. It certainly has made me think about the possible need for affirmative action policies, though I remain unconvinced that affirmative action policies can lead to social justice in the long-term.

For me, the one blight on the evening was when Rodeny Smith stood up and, frankly, tricked and manipulated everyone in the room into standing up and applauding Dr. Eva Hodgson. It was a cheap trick, rather akin to Phil's experience at Sea World where everyone was manipulated into applauding the families of members of the US military. Looking around the room, I could see that I wasn't the only person a little peeved by Rodney. Now, Dr. Hodgson is someone that I have grown to respect immenseley, even if I do not agree with everything she says - she seems to be something of a lone voice of reason in Bermuda on issues of race. I find it rather amusing that I used to regard Dr. Hodgson as almost the anti-Christ in my younger years. To even mention her name in a room full of whites used to be like saying the word 'cancer' in the US during the 1950s (which you just DID NOT do in polite company).

[loki on 13.10.05 at 00:30]

"If Tony Brannon was all his own race and he sent me an email like that, I'd be racist against him. That is one of the most obnoxious communications I have ever seen."

Absolutely. From what I've seen and heard about Tony, I like the guy. He really cares about Bermuda and, specifically, tourism. However, Tony may be sincere, but he has no clue how how to lobby government in an effective way. Tony came across as a complete asshole in that email. I don't remotely blame the Premier for reacting in the way that he did. It actually showed that he was human, subject to the same frustrations and emotions as the rest of us. I most certainly DO blame him for the dishonest, bullshit explanation that he gave - I guarantee that there are more whites angry for him for his explanation than for the initial remark. Bottom line: if you want Bermudians to deal with race in a sincere and honest way, our leaders must do the same.

[Bud on 13.10.05 at 07:39]

Loki,

"How can the black population accept the UBP's sincerity on the issue of race, when the extent of the UBPs public acknowledgement and discussion of race amounts to such a fluffy, non-committal, middle of the road and vague statement such as Grant Gibbons announcing several times that, "we acknowledge that there is unfinished business between the races"? Could they be any more vague if they tried."

Precisely. This is further compounded when so few white people call them on this very fact. If blacks are to believe that whites are sincere, then we'd expect them to rake the UBP over the coals for their insincere fluffy attempts at dealing with race. Likewise with that Nancy Acton affair. You guys lose much credibility when you don't get outraged over a dinosaur like that.
"The idea that whites either could or should unflinchingly accept the sincerity of blacks, without equivocation, whilst tolerating blacks' suspicion of whites is, frankly, pie in the sky. It ain't gonna happen. Both races need to make the effort to be sincere in their discussions concerning race, and make an effort to convince others of their sincerity. "

I tend to agree with what you are saying here. But, I think his broader point is that most whites live in a racist society completely oblvious to the fact. Unconsciously whites look at Friends and see nothing wrong with there being no people of colour in NYC, while people of colour see it as being blatantly ridiculous. White people think that when a pretty blonde white woman goes missing or is murdered, a nationally televised search/investigation is required. People of colour immediately recognise that the only people to get national coverage are blonde white women. In my opinion, whites are conditioned to believe that their superiority and privilege is perfectly normal and see nothing odd about it. No one ever questions why Cosmopolitan or Playboy emphasise blonde hair, blue eyes, no ass, etc. without flinching.

"I most certainly DO blame him for the dishonest, bullshit explanation that he gave - I guarantee that there are more whites angry for him for his explanation than for the initial remark. "

I couldn't disagree more. I think the vast majority of Bermudians, black and white, do not spend much time considering the complexity of this matter. They would have heard the initial soundbyte of "people who look and sound" and that would be the end of it. Most of the damage was done purely by the first publication of the story, especially when Brannon's email wasn't included. Sadly, I believe that intellectually most people swim in three inches of water, and see things in black and white (no grey).

[Curried Goat on 13.10.05 at 07:46]

I am sorry. I am white and I have never had anything passed down to me. I never had the opportunity to go to college, I never inherited a house or large sums of money. Everything I am, and have now I earned through choice and hard work.

When I got my first job at NTB I got it because of my score in an aptitude test, not because I am white. 2 others passed, 1 black, 1 Portugese. I chose my career, I chose my life.

This is because life is about choice. If you choose to succeed you will. If you choose to be apathetic you will not succeed, regardless of the colour of your skin. If you choose to be racially oppressed you will be and it will make you racist.

I am sick of racism. It is the stupidest thing in the world. The reason it will not go away is because it is passed down from generation to generation, and nobody will let it drop. We are all guilty of this. Show me an adult who has never made a racist comment in their lives and I will show you a liar!

The biggest problem is if you continually talk about racism it will never go away! In other words if you want racism to stop, just stop talking about it. Stop making it an issue.

[SarahT on 13.10.05 at 09:07]

Hey Limey, thanks for posting this - wish I was on the Island for it.

As for our leaders and their efforts at race relations, has anyone heard anything from Dodwell and his Shadow Race Relations and Economic Opportunity role? Whatever happened to that?

[Git on 13.10.05 at 09:19]

Mr. Goat,

"When I got my first job at NTB I got it because of my score in an aptitude test, not because I am white. 2 others passed, 1 black, 1 Portugese. I chose my career, I chose my life."

There is another LIB poster who uses the moniker B, W & P?? When we will get a grip on this? The fact that you think that way speaks volumes. There was 1 black person and 2 white people who passed that test.

"This is because life is about choice. If you choose to succeed you will. If you choose to be apathetic you will not succeed, regardless of the colour of your skin. If you choose to be racially oppressed you will be and it will make you racist."

It’s fantastic that you have gotten ahead in life through your hard work and determination. I applaud that and feel the same way about my own achievements. But in the same breath, can you not accept that other races have been at a disadvantage and may continue to be in some ways? Not necessarily in your sphere of experience, but not that far removed either. I’d suggest you re-read the bit about the running race in Phil's post. It might become a bit clearer to you.

"The biggest problem is if you continually talk about racism it will never go away! In other words if you want racism to stop, just stop talking about it. Stop making it an issue."

Sticking ones head in the sand is not the way to resolve issues, particularly with the race-mongering administration of the day constantly hammering on the wedge to further their misguided agenda. It will not go away. IMO it is ESSENTIAL to talk about race publicly, openly and honestly.

If you didn't, you should have taken the time to attend one of the forums. If we are to get anywhere we are going to have to take part, and do our part.

[Curried Goat on 13.10.05 at 10:51]

Git,

You said, "There was 1 black person and 2 white people who passed that test."

The point was 1 white, 1 black and 1 Portugese, probably the most racially abused people in Bermudian society EVER! Not simply 2 white!

"But in the same breath, can you not accept that other races have been at a disadvantage and may continue to be in some ways?"

Certainly I do, again I refer you to the Portugese, and their past treatment, especially by the first and predominantly black PLP government. But racism is not always a black and white issue is it?

"Sticking ones head in the sand is not the way to resolve issues, particularly with the race-mongering administration of the day...."

On this part you are correct. My point is though regardless on the subject of a thread on this board, someone seems to be able to pull the race card on it. That is the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out along with the 'administration that "act" like the PLP'!

[silencedogood on 13.10.05 at 11:06]

Thanks for the Post Limey. I wasn’t able to make it because I was chained to my desk. I think some of what Wise had to say was thought provoking and valuable. Particularly the part about how blacks and whites view racism differently (personal vs. institutitional). That theory does explain a lot of behavior. He is right that expectations get ahead of reality as well and that successful blacks have attention called to them because of their blackness.

Where I disagree, and this is where some of you will stop reading (but c’mon, read a bit more), is with just about everything else he said. First, I too think that it is a bit arrogant to come to Bermuda, spend 24 hours here and think that your racial theories based on the US, which people will disagree with there who are not racists, apply across the board. I would respect the opinion more if it was developed after spending even the 21 day immigration allowance here. It would be more valuable to the community.

Second, Tom’s post hit the nail on the head with the equality movement. Since the US is Wise’s model, look at the US. The civil rights act of 1864 and 1964 are virtually identical. During reconstruction there were blacks being educated at all levels, blacks making inroads politically and being elected at all levels. After reconstruction the federal government sold them out and allowed Jim Crow laws which basically stripped all those rights away leaving blacks with lives little better than slavery. Progress was glacial.

The civil rights movement pushed equality of opportunity. They weren’t asking for preferences which is something President Johnson favored, but once it became established why give it up. One of the many long-term destructive things Johnson is responsible for. If you look at black immigrants, particularly from places like Jamaica or parts of Africa which have a reputation for a stronger work ethic when they arrive, some first and most second generation immigrants are doing very well.

Tim Wise’s argument about removing the shackles from a runner is bogus. You either believe in race-based criteria and change the race or you don’t because if you allow that you run into a ton of problems. Who decides which races to favor? Who decides when the programs have served their purpose and should be removed? What if there is no discrimination in opportunity but outcomes don’t change because not enough people take advantage of them? Etc. etc. Plus, the foot race begins anew with each generation.

Assume for argument that institutional racism is a thing of the past today. Why would the school kids coming up need affirmative action? Yet admissions are the number one area in which it is used. If racism is an ideology and a system, why supplant one racist system with another? Two wrongs make a right? The system then begins to perpetuate itself because you have a lot of people whose personal well being depend on that system. So it becomes, sure the test is standardized and constructed without regard or intent to discriminate other than on aptitude for a particular skill, but it’s a racist test.

His statements about recruiting in the Caribbean are a joke. There are some very qualified people in the Caribbean, but Bermuda is a specialized market. The Guilden’s of the world will never have a problem finding a job, but he’s got the specialized skill set that just happens to match what is being done here. I’m sure there are people in BVI, Cayman, the Bahamas and Barbados who are black and have the same skills, are intelligent and educated—I know there are because I’ve worked with them, but those countries are actively pursuing the same markets as Bermuda. Why would their citizens want to come here as an expat with all the legal grief that entails to do the same job for the sole reason of supporting our racial goals? I didn’t realize the Caribbean was overflowing with professional white collar workers either. I thought they had to import a lot of guest workers too. I should have realized since the various island economies are doing so well and are not based primarily on tourism.

Lets get serious. Most expats at the higher levels of IB come from marquee markets such as London or NY and have years of experience. They aren’t arriving from Boise Idaho or Saskatoon having spent 6 months selling potato insurance. Beyond Bermuda no other Caribbean country can offer the depth of experience needed at the level required by IB and even here it helps to have off-island experience if you want to go high up the chain.

Lastly, the fact that his comment of "Oh my God, can these guys fly this thing.” Is being generalized to all whites is an insult and inaccurate, especially in Bermuda where people grow up seeing blacks at every level of power. I don’t know his background, but it’s not mine and its not a lot of others. I don’t dispute that there may be subconscious prejudices. But that doesn’t mean they necessarily exist for every person or even most people. It’s an easy argument to say “you are all racist and don’t know it and wont’ know it until you do something racist which may not be until you are 80, but there you will be, a racist”. You can’t prove or disprove it. I think instead of buying Tim Wise’s much plugged book, we should buy Crash and watch it periodically instead. Plus, as a bonus it only takes two hours to watch!

[SmokingGun on 13.10.05 at 11:36]

"I tend to agree with what you are saying here. But, I think his broader point is that most whites live in a racist society completely oblvious to the fact. Unconsciously whites look at Friends and see nothing wrong with there being no people of colour in NYC, while people of colour see it as being blatantly ridiculous. ( - White people think that when a pretty blonde white woman goes missing or is murdered, a nationally televised search/investigation is required. People of colour immediately recognise that the only people to get national coverage are blonde white women. - ) In my opinion, whites are conditioned to believe that their superiority and privilege is perfectly normal and see nothing odd about it. No one ever questions why Cosmopolitan or Playboy emphasise blonde hair, blue eyes, no ass, etc. without flinching." - Bud

Bud, Bud, Bud.... as usual the "core" of what you are trying to say makes reasonable sense and should be a concern to all but then you go and cover it up with with all sorts of ridiculous stuff that hides the real issue. TV sitcoms come and go and are soley for the purpose of making money - not trying to teach the world what's right or wrong about life. Although Seinfeld was pretty good at it.

And as far as having all sorts of white women in Playboy, I wouldn't know, I just read the articles.

[loki on 13.10.05 at 11:45]

"Who decides when the programs have served their purpose and should be removed?"

This is the biggest issue that I have with any kind of affirmative action policy. Whilst I recognize that steps need to be taken to allow blacks to 'catch up' economically after they have been historically disadvantaged, I'm not convinced that traditional affirmative action policies are the answer: all you will do in the long-term is created a pendulum of advantage that swings back and forth. Let's assume that racially based affirmative action policies are put in place. Once those that have been historically disadvantaged enjoy the benefits of those policies and 'catch up', so to speak, how willing would they be to relinquish that advantage? Would they be prepared to recognize that the time case some to relinquish that advantage?

[clam and collective on 13.10.05 at 11:52]

So many self-hating whites! They think there are be so pc bashing any other white person who dares to critize some aspect of balck society. Really I don't think brutus was saying screw black people or not acknowledging discrimnation and segregation. What he was saying that you can't just completely compare Bermuda to other places. I mean what is the proportion of black members of Congress to white members in the U.S., or black MPs to white MPs in the U.K. and then compare that to Bermuda. I think he meant look at things like that. In regards to racism towards whites during school years, well unlike most of the whites who post on this blog I went to both a public primary school and high school(and I don't mean Warwick Academy), and there was definatly way more racsim towards whites then towards blacks. If you went to Saltus or MSA you wouldn't know what I was talking about.

[blovator on 13.10.05 at 12:29]

Sorry Clam and collective

Saltus kids got it from Barkley kids. Thats why we need Tim Wise to come down here on his vacation and explain that to us. We've spent the years of out adult hood wondering why. What did I see in the Sun? "‘Blacks don’t have power to exert racism’. Sure Tim. Go home.

[loki on 13.10.05 at 12:32]

"What did I see in the Sun? "‘Blacks don’t have power to exert racism’. Sure Tim. Go home."

Actually, last night he was pretty pissed about that headline as it was, apparently, a complete misquote.

[jake on 13.10.05 at 12:43]

Saltus kids got it from Berkeley?

I am not going to dispute any possible isolated incidents, but there was hardly any interaction between Saltus and Berkeley kids.

Let's be honest, you led quite separate lives behind the wall, with better facilites and teachers who were never on strike (but would have pay rises commensurate with pay increases yielded when our teachers did so).

It was at Saltus that I was told by a classmate that it was scientifically proven that black people have smaller brains that white people.

If we are calling names, don't forget your own.

[blovator on 13.10.05 at 13:12]

Jake

You don't have to worry about Saltus. It was not the splendid place that it likes to think it was, nor was it as racist as people outside like to think it was.

Yes it was removed from the world and from Barkley. Thats why Barkley kids beat us up. For me, it was an absurd and horrible place and many of my friends have begged their parents to let them go anywhere but there. Leaving always did thier psyche good. After many years I was allowed to leave. It was the worst educational experience of my life. And I am not the only one who thinks so. How many times have you heard Barkley kids say that?

It was proof of something the UBP and the PLP strenuously ignore - education has a lot more to do with attitude and the objectives of learning than facilites. As Mark Twain says, "we want to give our children all sorts of wonderful things, but what they really want is us. And that is the thing we hold from them. "

So it with Education in Bermuda. We never commit to a Bermudian education system, designed by us for our children. We rely on foreign nostrums of educational wisdom and expensive buildings.

Back on topic : My point is that with an upbringing like the one I had, it is ludicrous to assume I was blandly unaware of the racial situation on the island. It was being physically and mentally banged into my head from a very young age. From what I have read about Wise, I am utterly unimpressed with the man. I do not see myself or my friends in what he he says. I think he acts as a conduit for the kind of sloppy introverted thinking that surrounds this issue in Bermuda.

[Raptor on 13.10.05 at 13:37]

Don't worry, everybody. The UBP is stepping into this discussion with some fresh, clear ideas. There's an article right there in the RG today. I saw it a few minutes ago online.

Oh, sorry...it's about banning cell phones.

Which part of their platform is that?

[blovator on 13.10.05 at 14:18]

Tim Wise says that when white people call people incompetant and the accused people are black, black people assume that the statement is racist. So when the media points out the failings of this government someone is being insensitive. Its a good thing I wasn't at that meeting. I would have yelled "If only one race in government WAS competant! All we need is one! Black or white - Who cares?!"

[44-40 on 13.10.05 at 14:21]

It appears to me that there is not one person in the UBP with any ambition. I mean what a bunch of idiots. here's some pointers boys,

Change the name of the party, it works for corporations, that are failing.

Get rid of Gibbons as party leader.

Have some actual polices in which the population of Bermuda can get interested in.

Keep that money grabbing hack John Swan quite. When he speaks people think he's talking for the party.

[Full Fullish on 13.10.05 at 14:21]

Bud - You have some rather interesting ideas of what goes on in the mind of a white person. Much the same way was Whites don't know what it means to be or think black, Blacks don't know what it means to be or think white. I think when you make comments such as what you have it takes away some of the merrit of some very strong issues you are putting forwards. Just a suggestion.....

[ace on 13.10.05 at 14:27]

"Get rid of Gibbons as party leader."

I think that based upon Tim Wise's comments regarding the "P" e-mail incident that this is indeed necessary.

Accusations of window dressing or not, there needs to be a black man/woman at the head of the UBP. That way he/she can criticise "P" without "P" having to wonder if there is any racial bias imbedded in his/her criticism.