Ask Jamahl Simmons

UBP Spokesman and Shadow Transport Minister Jamahl Simmons has kindly offered to make himself available to answer your questions live on A Limey In Bermuda.

He'll be online between 7.30pm and 9.30pm this Wednesday evening, 16th November. I will start a special thread for the discussion, on which you can post questions for Jamahl; he will field them as they come in.

If you are unable to be online at this time, you may any questions you'd like put to him. Please do not leave them as comments here, however.

Comments

[Intrigued on 15.11.05 at 09:31]

Great new feature Phil. For someone who is burnt out you sure keep delivering the goods.

[Fire on 15.11.05 at 09:52]

Oh goody. Jamahl. The man with all the answers.

[jake on 15.11.05 at 11:53]

Sounds interesting.

Let's hope it takes the form of good questions and not some softball love fest.

Will you be offering the same service to the otherside?

[Somers on 15.11.05 at 12:16]

yeah - where's the other sides rep?

[Bill Cook on 15.11.05 at 12:27]

I assume anyone can ask the questions ?

Would that then not determine what questions are asked ?

I have not heard censorship to allow only selected questions such as is the case with certain radio stations !!

How can anyone object to that ?

[Phil on 15.11.05 at 13:22]

Yep, anyone can ask the questions.

I would encourage everyone to use this as an opportunity to ask those hard questions that the rest of the media does not.

The only additional rule to the usual ones of this site will be no personal attacks from anonymous posters (and I would prefer no personal attacks full stop).

Jamahl volunteered to do this, although I have considered trying to set something like this up before. I would be delighted if a PLP MP (or their spokesman, Scott Simmons) was to volunteer to do something similar.

[Big Bad Wolf ^..^ on 15.11.05 at 15:25]

Nothing from nothing produces nothing....for obvious reasons I have nothing to ask the smiling card board cut out.

[jake on 15.11.05 at 15:45]

Wow.

[Tiger Bay on 15.11.05 at 15:50]

Jamahl: is Scott really your evil alter ego? Are you related to that guy? :]

[loki on 15.11.05 at 15:56]

Graeme,

Why don't you tell us what you really think? Don't hold back now.

[Jamahl Simmons on 15.11.05 at 16:08]

No Tiger Bay,

Scott isn't my evil alter ego - he's actually a pretty decent guy with a really REALLY tough job on his hands

"The smiling cardboard cut out"

[Big Bad Wolf ^..^ on 15.11.05 at 16:11]

Loki thanks for your clarity. Maybe...I just should of written no comment.Experience will not let me put away the blade so I cut with real purpose and focus.So I state my case with shin-ken. In english,to do something with a real sword means to be deadly serious. From the Book of Five Rings.

[Slowhand on 15.11.05 at 19:49]

Did we not offer Bud the opportunity?!! I would love to see a Government rep on here..... Sorry to burst your bubble Jake

[Uncle Elvis on 15.11.05 at 20:34]

As promised, Jamahl, I will be here, asking questions.
I thought I'd get one in early.

In the new Superman movie, what do you think of the redesign on his costume? What are your thoughts on the belt? Do you think a redesign is upcoming in the comics, a la the X-men redesign?

Oh... this isn't about comic books? Dammit.

[loki on 15.11.05 at 20:40]

"As promised, Jamahl, I will be here, asking questions.
I thought I'd get one in early.

In the new Superman movie, what do you think of the redesign on his costume? What are your thoughts on the belt? Do you think a redesign is upcoming in the comics, a la the X-men redesign?

Oh... this isn't about comic books? Dammit."

Elvis, you have officially *whoosed* me.

[Uncle Elvis on 15.11.05 at 20:45]

Sorry. I know Jamahl from the Comic Shop.

Not to worry, I'll be asking other questions... relavent questions... tomorrow night.

but seriously, what do you think about the costume in the movie? *grin*

[island dweller on 15.11.05 at 23:21]

Good day All,

We have a fine opportunity to communicate and hear important matters of the country addressed.

Respectfully, Mr Alex Scott should feel obliged to encourage a member of his cabinet to participate. This way we can hear truth and see the greatness of Government in action.

It would be unfair to read in the daily that the Mr. Scott's Government complains the day after this occurs saying that the truths of the PLP has been distorted.

Let's all be optimistic.

[Jamahl Simmons on 16.11.05 at 08:01]

Hey Uncle Elvis,

you should go into politics - we need more people who keep their promises! For those who wonder what he is talking about I am a long time collector of comic books and during my last visit to my favorite hangout The Comic Stop - Uncle Elvis promised to hit me with some tough questions - on comic books!

To answer your question - Not a big fan of the Bryan Singer redesign but I'm reserving judgement until I see it on film - more leery about the plan to continue the franchise based on the continuity of the original movies

Well Elvis you gave me my laugh for the day! I don't think the questions tonight are going to be this easy! Looking forward to some really tough questions and some good dialogue

[Jake on 16.11.05 at 23:53]

Jamahl,

I am glad that you participated in this event, but I think that your answers to the difficult questions demonstrate why there is so much distrust where the UBP is concerned.

I asked you about the financial aspects of membership and you create a story about how the PLP have oppressed you with employment. I wonder where that happened? The PLP control what businesses? Did you want a job at the union or pro-active? People are not stupid, and that is a ridiculous concept in the reality of Bermuda's economic status quo.

My question was a genuine one. I know of several UBP blacks who received financial incentives to join, and I think it is a shameful practice. I think it is equally shameful when the PLP asked companies to give MP's jobs when they were elected. It is a beggars charter, and part of the entitlement philosophy people accuse blacks (in many cases correctly) of having. You should have told us that it happens but not in your case. You lost your chance to earn real respect there.

Equally, you avoided the question on education. You wrap up the policy of your party in a pre 1998 mantra and then try to cast my question as an inditement on history of 400 years ago. You and I both know, as do the readers here, that this was not what I said. You try to avoid the tough questions, but would do better to answer them. It is a shame.

I have no idea what hte purpose of your answer about the alleged incident with a PLP Senator and your child. You have been in politics long enough to know that among themselves politicians on both sides give and take in hard jabs. MAxwell Burgess is famous for it. Julian Hall is famous for it. They will say anything. Calling someone trash was low, and saying that the "PLP" do this is overstating it in the extreme. It was sad machismo to say you would have used violence 5 years ago in response to such a statement. Be honest. Do you think we don't know you in Bermuda? You have never been a tough guy. Why try to portray that now?

Fnally, one black male to another: tone it down and be yourself. You have much to give the country, but the more you seek to win through your personal "celebrity" and the creation of an image you don't represent, the more you lose credibility. I lost respect for you when you became the nasty voice of the UBP. Remember "Drunk on power, and drunk on Champagne" - that is who you have been. Someone willing to attack people instead of ideas. That was a cowardly statement, that still says more about you than it did your target.

I wish you well, but I do not think you deserve to lead our country.

[Jewels on 17.11.05 at 00:18]

It is clear from questions posed and the latest comment that it is directly from a plp supporter....which is fine and dandy but if the best jabs you can come up with is talking in circles and saying alot of nothing that is a shame as well as thinking of five different ways to say basically the same thing.... Instead of worrying about Jamahl and how he needs to tone it down--never realized he was toned up, but anyway....or worrying about incentives to join the party...maybe you should advise the plp that at this point a great many people feel THEY don't deserve to lead the country. And they felt that in the last election where some candidates won by 8 votes and less--i believe one constituency was as low as 2 or 3....perhaps they should realize and remind themselves too that half the people are not all that enthralled with them. Why point out the Senator and his kid? Why not? Why not let it be known how immature and unprofessional the plp can be? We already have countless other examples: The Burch recently on his show blasting "House ni---ers"--bet if anyone else had said that the plp and the country would be up in arms....oops- but I almost forgot that would have definitely been acceptable bc A PLP member, the infamous cricket game shoving Mr. Blakeney is the CEO of Hott...how could I forget? Or how about days after the election Ewart Brown delcares, --(article available in Royal gazette archives), "we had to mislead you to win the election"...that was quite respectable. How about putting a bic report together that blatantly lies, "in no instance was it found that a country decided independence by way of a referendum"...thank god for google.com where that error can be cleared up in a matter of seconds...not even to mention the fact I have seen countless statements made about why they want to go it alone--their main reason seeming to be due to pride and "knowing where we belong"....the objective is not to go on and on about the plp and the fact that more than half the leaders have no collegeriate education even listed in their biographies on their website --the objective should be to simply say before you start throwing stones u might want to double check your own home is made of unbreakable glass....almost a decade and what to look forward to? Increased crime, increased shortage of struggling homeless families, a govt tv station being set up bc we have no other more important priorities, CURB being set up while at the same time a Cabinet Minister says blatant racist remarks on the air....Enough bashing back and forth about who did what ten yrs plus ago---the plp has been in almost a decade now----come up with a better defense mechanism before the next election results in what the last one almost did--them out! Oh, and another thing....here's an ingenious idea --why doesn't one of their Ministers come on here and do the same thing...For a party that touts good race relation they certainly don't practice it by making Black people feel they are less "Black" bc they support the UBp...and calling their own people "House ni--ers" on radio for thousands to hear.....everyone remember "Plp all the way, all the way plp"-lol.

[jewels on 17.11.05 at 00:24]

Oh and one more amusing thing to point out....while it is commented that using violence five years ago was uncalled for, and it is contemplated whether he was he ever a tough guy and how that was low...I would love to know how with all that thought and good grammar you managed to leave out one important point--the fact of how LOW it was for a PLP Senator to even say such a derogatory comment to someone's child right in front of their parent. Bermudians love to go on about respect....and as usual our wonderful Government does a fine job of practicing what they preach. Although it is claimed the topic of education was avoided it seems Terry Lister does an even better job of that by even contemplating about renaming all the schools....

[Sergio on 17.11.05 at 02:38]

Jewels, regarding your last comment...

what i think jake is trying to point out is that jamahl's attitude towards various situations almost makes it sound like he thinks we are stupid.

jamahl...tough guy? i dont even know the guy, but what i've seen and heard of him in the public arena, he is far from that. The point isn't whether he's a tough guy or not, it's why he tries to portray the image of someone who he is not. This is why jake says he's trying to win thru an image he doesn't represent.

jamahl has lost even more credibility in my eyes. i asked him to clarify a simple incident regarding him and his wife's access to job opportunities and how the PLP tried their best to block attempts at employment. and then after i ask him to explain himself, he gives an incomplete answer and then retracts the initial statement completely.

it's things like that that diminish his credibility. to me, it makes me wonder whether he even had an interaction w/ a PLP Senator and his son. this is just one of the various ways in which UBP members, particularly jamahl, exhibit their lack of credibility.

always learning...

[Phil on 17.11.05 at 08:13]

jake/Sergio

I can understand your scepticism regarding Jamahl's comments about how he has been discriminated against, due to a lack of specifics he was willing to give publicly. For what it's worth he and I have spoken privately about this previously, during which time he cited specific instances. It's my opinion that he genuinely does believe that he and his wife have had their job opportunities restricted by the PLP putting pressure on other organisations, although he admits he can't prove anything.

But then, I don't think that those black Bermudians who claimed to have had their mortgages pulled because of their outspoken behaviour against the old white establishment ever proved anything either.

As for his comment about the PLP senator and his child, I think I would have felt like breaking that senator's jaw too. And I'm certainly no hard man either. Yes politics can be tough, but there's really no need to bring a 5 year old kid into it, is there?

[Somers on 17.11.05 at 08:36]

I like your music jewels. Keep on rocking.

Phil - thanks for providing access to a politician. Even though I didn't submit a question having the dialogue there in black and white is useful.

[Jake on 17.11.05 at 09:50]

Phil,

I know you are trying to be fair, but try to look at this from the perspective of someone who has seen the work of the UBP over the years. It sounds like you see the discrimination of the past in the same terms as what Jamahl asserts. Are you saying that they are both equal in their existence because you don't have the evidence? With the greatest of respect, who made you judge of Bermuda's history and arbiter of the past? Are you saying that when the elderly members of the community say it happened - people not linked to each other, we are all making it up?

At a time when Jamahl was in diapers if born at all, and you were a school boy in the UK having never heard of the country the UBP were a feared force in this country. Every bank, insurance company, grocery store, clothing store, judicial office, senior police position and political position were held by its supporters. Not only that, but segregation was still legal. Are you trying to tell me that you equate that what we have today where other than the civil service and political office, little else has changed, and now the plp have the power to deny anyone anything financial?

How much of the country's wealth - businesses big and small - is in the hands of the plp or its supporters? How much influence do they have? Please tell me that you see this argument in both the light he presents it and the light of day.

I was harsh on Jamahl, I will accept that. There is a reason. I have no problem with blacks in politics on ideological grounds. I deeply resent when people seek to use the fact that they belong to a group of people who have historically been oppressed to gain an advantage merely based on that. It bothers me in the PLP when I am supposed to accept everyone on the basis that they are my 'brother' and it bothers me in the UBP when people who 'political party shop' pretend like the UBP was not directly responsible for many of the social problems we continue to have today, and ask us all to pretend that we are stupid. Do you know why Wayne Furbert is run in a marginal seat and Jamahl in a safe one? Because black people do not believe him or trust him. That is primarily because of the way in which he wasted no time in becoming the nasty voice of the UBP.

Yes I am talking about a lack of respect for people and Jamahl demonstrates it with his answers and with his statements.

I am very sorry that he and his child were insulted, but if it were me, and my child, I would use it as a chance to teach them what manhood is all about. It is about knowing which fights require walking away and which do not. He walked away which I admire. Casting it as something he would have done differently 5 years ago is just silly, and beneath the level I expect of my leaders.

I take Jewel's criticisms to heart as well. Everyone who reads this site knows I am a plp supporter. As much as I know there are only two or three of us here from that perspective. I am very much unhappy with the evets as listed:

Ewart Brown and we decieced you
Blakeney and the Cup Match shove
Alleged nigger comment by Colonel Burch

Hey I will raise you a few:

The Pension scandal
The Overspend at Berkeley
Appointing Ashfield DeVent as a Minister
Getting rid of Jennifer Smith

We all have positions and membership in a party does not by itself state what they are. This was the whole point of the exchange I thought - to meet Jamahl Simmons.

I think Graeme was proven right in that he attempted to be funny, but by avoiding the real questions, he came off as being trite. Very smily and cardboard.

As for your comment about education Jewel, we can all play that card. I can give you as many people with degrees in the PLP as I can point out people without them in the UBP. Personally I am more concerned about ability, and a degree is just one factor in assessing that.

I hope Jamahl does not do the typical thing of taking what I am saying as a plp member; meaning that it has no relevance. Yes I am in the PLP, but there are plenty of UBP members who may not get my vote but who have my respect and the respect of the people of Bermuda. THAT is the measure of them, not how tough, funny, or educated they are.

Good luck to you Jamahl. I wish you well.

[Full Fullish on 17.11.05 at 10:16]

Jake,
I understand your comments against the UBP, and I agree with what they did in the past was wrong, but do you not think that they have changed, or have the capacity to change?

For instance, when the PLP came into power, I said openly that a change would be good and I was eager to see what they could accomplish. Unfortunantely they in the last 7 years have left a really bad taste in my mouth, to the point where I will strongly oppose them from getting in again. This being said, I will always keep my eyes and mind open. If down the road they show to me that they have changed for the better, I would be open to their leadership again. For me, I would want the best for Bermuda, regardless of what party that is. This is how we should all be IMHO.

[bw&p?? on 17.11.05 at 10:30]

Jake,
Purely out of curiosity, what would it take for you to NOT support the PLP any longer?

Please try not to use the 'because the UBP is no better alternative' - as I've pointed out to you in another post, the UBP had some very dark early years for which even I am a victim of, however, as I have also pointed out previously, I think there were years when the UBP worked remarkably well for this country. Following the departure of SJS I believe they lost the plot - and hence they lost my support. I, and many Bermudians, wanted change and ushered in the PLP. In hindsite, the PLP have never had a plot and they are now taking Bermuda down a very dark path that could be compared to the early days of the UBP. It is time they were shown the door.

So I ask, what would it take?

[Jamahl Simmons on 17.11.05 at 10:43]

Thanks Jake,

and if I came across as attempting to duck questions that certainly wasn't my intent. I answered every question to the best of my ability and tried to be as open and honest about things as possible

Just to clarify on the whole "safe seat" issue - I certainly was not the party's first choice for Pembroke West - nor did I even submit my name to be considered at first!

When Gary Pitman stepped down I approached Erwin Adderley about helping out with the campaign and he suggested I put my name forward saying that I probably wouldn't get it but it would be a good experience. I promptly forgot about it! Then on Boxing Day I got a call from the Gazette speculating on who would be running in the seat - I said that I would run wherever the party put me - but the Headline read Simmons eager to run in Pembroke West!!!!!

I then received a barrage of calls from the branch pissed off that this young whipper snapper had been so presumptuous - once I explained the situation the Chairman of the branch Joanne Tucker recommended that my name be brought forward saying the same thing that Erwin had that it would be a good experience but I probably wouldn't get it.

At the time there was another candidate that the leadership wanted for the slot who I respected to the point that I told him I would gladly help him on his campaign as we were going through the interview process.

Anyway long story short Pembroke West's branch has a history of being "independent" to say the least and they insisted that they would have the final say on the candidate selecting me! I give particular credit to Joanne Tucker who wanted to give an opportunity to someone new to the party

I would have gladly run in any seat and if the party called on me to run in a marginal or even a "suicide mission" I would do it because its not about Jamahl Simmons sitting in Parliament its about making our agenda a reality

At this stage in my career I have NO interest in taking a role either as Opposition Leader or Premier - Workig closely with Grant Gibbons I can tell you that it is a 24 hour a day job where you can't get sick, you can't have a bad day and you can't take a break. I'm 35 years old, I have a lot more patience, experience and wisdom to attain before I consider taking on that burden.

Besides at this point outside of politics my priority is raising my boys and if I took on that job at this stage my wife would kill me!!!!

Anyway I've got to get to work - besides my hands and wrists are killing me!!! I wish you all well and thanks for your time

[sleepy on 17.11.05 at 11:01]

Jake delivers a real zinger here:

"At a time when Jamahl was in diapers if born at all, and you were a school boy in the UK having never heard of the country the UBP were a feared force in this country. Every bank, insurance company, grocery store, clothing store, judicial office, senior police position and political position were held by its supporters. Not only that, but segregation was still legal. Are you trying to tell me that you equate that what we have today where other than the civil service and political office, little else has changed, and now the plp have the power to deny anyone anything financial?"

Key assertion is that the United Bermuda Party were a feared force with total economic control while segregation was still legal.

Check your dates on the end of segregation and the founding of the United Bermuda Party. I thought he of all people would be more up on his history.

Facts are a terrible inconvenience I know.

[Full Fullish on 17.11.05 at 11:05]

Hi Jamahl,
Sorry I missed this last night, however, I just wanted to say that going onto a forum like you did took guts and I hope that you're fellow politicians do the same. One of the biggest issues I have with almost all politicians (UBP and PLP) is that they are almost unreachable by the public except before an election. I and a few others voiced this concern at the SPBC to the UBP a few weeks ago (I believe you were there). This should change IMHO.

Good luck with everything though....It would be good to have this as a more frequent event.

[jake on 17.11.05 at 11:14]

"Purely out of curiosity, what would it take for you to NOT support the PLP any longer?

Please try not to use the 'because the UBP is no better alternative'" - b,w&p

If you would like to have my opinion, please do not try to give it to me. I will support the PLP until there is a better electoral choice. I do not agree with you that the UBP is that better electoral choice. If the PLP continue down the path we are on, I expect that the NLP may find there is greater interest from people generally, and I may be one of those people. What I suspect will happen is that the PLP may lose an election and then wiser heads will prevail. Sadly they will be marked by the taint of the present leadership, but it will help everyone to understand why it is important to put the best team forward.

Jamahl, I am going to end here, but I will note this because it is obvious to me, if no one else. You have still not addressed any distinct point made by me above or the others last night. The point was not that you sought a safe seat; it was that they placed you in one because the profile you are projecting is not one that attracts black marginal voters. In short, the image game is not working. I also never said anything about you becoming leader of your party. The idea of you rejecting the role is the same as me rejecting the lead in Swan Lake.

6 paragraphs on how you were selected for a safe seat and 2 on not wanting to be the Premier or Leader of the Opposition right now. Do you see the point?

You have years in the political game, but your time has not proven you to be leadership material - not yet. I believe that you want to do right, and I am hopeful that you will focus on doing good and less on being seen to do good. The latter undermines the former.

Again, good luck to you.

[Monsignor Treeb Lopez on 17.11.05 at 11:18]

Hold the front page - political party tries to win a political seat. Jeeebus Jake - you are priceless.

[lickinalong on 17.11.05 at 11:25]

There is something very interesting going on with all of this. Col. Burch now a cabinet minister calls black Bermudians such as Jamahl Simmons as derogatory a term as one black Bermudian can make to another. A PLP Senator makes an extremely rude and disparaging statement about Jamahl to his son on the street. Jake, a usually well balanced poster, makes disparaging, condescending and ad hominem statements about Jamahl. There clearly is a pattern going on here.

For some reason the PLP and its supporters feel that they can say anything they want to people such as Jamahl who fraternize with white people politically. For some reason this gives the PLP the right to be rude, unpleasant and downright racist to people such as Jamahl. People who would never dream of saying such things to others feel that people like Jamahl are fair game. Jake, why is it that you feel that it is ok for a PLP Senator to be abusive to Jamahl and his son because that is just the way of politics? Why are people like Jamahl fair game for this kind of abuse?

[JJ on 17.11.05 at 11:39]

I personally thought Jamahl came across as an open minded person who answered all the questions with honesty, even admitting where he or his party have erred in the past and regreting mistakes. When have you ever heard a PLP MP admit a mistake, let alone apologise?
Good job Jamahl and well done Limey.

[jake on 17.11.05 at 11:41]

Fair point sleepy.

Here's another fair one. The owners of those businesses, the folks who were the Government leaders and became the UBP, those who created the laws of segregation, those who benefitted from segregation: all same people. You see I see the members of the political party in the same light as its less than formal predecessors. When I have the time I am going to simply list their names for you and the others here who insist that this, like anything in our past dealing with white people doing wrong, is simply in my head.

Facts are not inconvenient.

Now how about commenting on whether the UBP had economic power during its tenure of 30 years. Do you agree with that or is that incorrect also?

[jake on 17.11.05 at 11:47]

lickinalong,

If I was harsh on Jamahl, as I indicated above, there is a context for it. I did not condone what was said in front of his son - as I said above - and I am not in support of what the Colonel said - as I said above - and I have no problem with blacks in the UBP - as I said above.

Take your time and read what I said. Disagree with me like everyone else here, but don't make up lies. It is too obvious to point out here.

[sleepy on 17.11.05 at 12:00]

Yet another one:

"Here's another fair one. The owners of those businesses, the folks who were the Government leaders and became the UBP, those who created the laws of segregation, those who benefitted from segregation: all same people. You see I see the members of the political party in the same light as its less than formal predecessors."

The UBP certainly was a broad coalition of some previously unlikely partners, some with proud pasts, some not so proud. But they knew what had to be done, as imperfect as it all was.

But yet again your blanket statements fall apart easily. Must I point out that one prominent Theatre Boycott leader went on to be a founding member of the UBP. Stanley Ratteray comes to mind. Inconvenient fact I know, but don't let that stop your rewriting of history. More power to you.

[lickinalong on 17.11.05 at 12:03]

Jake,
You are right to a degree but personally I found your statements quite condescending and if I were Jamahl, it wouldn't be hard to take offence. More power to him that he just took it in his stride.

The bigger issue is why are people like Jamahl subject to so much abuse by the PLP. We probably only see a small part of it but the part that is visible is clearly abusive and vitriolic and goes well beyond "normal politicing".

[silencedogood on 17.11.05 at 12:04]

Jamahl,

I agree with some of the other posters--it took the ever popular "testicular fortitude" to accept the questions. I think you gave a good faith effort even though you did not answer all questions as fully as people would like. This is more effort than anyone else I've seen so far and was valuable. Thanks.

Jake,

Please allow me to rephrase bw&p's question in a way where you are comfortable giving the kind of answer I think he's looking for:

What kind of party could entice you to vote for them over the PLP? What policies, platform, characteristics, vision, etc? If possible, leave UBP and PLP references out and start with a clean slate. What is the ideal and what is the realistic picture of a party, other than PLP, that you would vote for?

[loki on 17.11.05 at 12:19]

It's interesting: I'm not really sure what people are expecting Jamahl to say about the UBPs past history - he's admitted that some aspects of its past are less than stellar, particularly with regard to education. I don't see that it's his responsibility, even as UBP spokesman, to do rake over the past and issue a mea culpa for each and every shitty policy or poorly-handled initiative made by the UBP over thirty years in government.

[jake on 17.11.05 at 12:29]

As I said sleepy, I will do the research, write the list and it will say what it says. We can all comment on it at that time. S. Ratteray does not answer for the multitude of financial muscle behind the party, nor for their record pre and post UBP founding.

Answer the question I posed to you, now. Here it is for your convenience:

"Now how about commenting on whether the UBP had economic power during its tenure of 30 years. Do you agree with that or is that incorrect also?"

"The bigger issue is why are people like Jamahl subject to so much abuse by the PLP. We probably only see a small part of it but the part that is visible is clearly abusive and vitriolic and goes well beyond "normal politicing". - Lickalong

That is not a PLP thing. As I said to you, it is the response that most black people take because of the history of some blacks (colloquially called "house") taking pay to keep us down. It is a perception that is in many cases unfair because at its root is a denial of different ideologies. In the US when black people act like this it is called "coon-ing". The image of the jovial happy black fool, or the black person who would rather keep you down more than the white people he benefits rests deep in our society.

That said, don't cry me a river. Jamahl and Maxwell are at the forefront of the public and private barb.

Am I harder on Jamahl than I would be on Grant Gibbons or Wayne Furbert - yes. That is probably based on how I have viewed some of Jamahl's statements on people just like him who want to contribute politically, but not in the UBP. In other words he is getting the level he metes out and it is not based on the fact that he is black.

That said, I will tone it down myself.

[jake on 17.11.05 at 12:33]

loki,

I hope that when we get to the time of the PLP in Opposition and we are trying to get back in you will take the same approach and will consider the record expunged and the team the "New" PLP.

There is much I would like to forget about in the present administration, and I like the concept of the clean sheet - that is if it applies to us too. Does it?

[Monsignor Treeb Lopez on 17.11.05 at 12:35]

Having to suffer Jake and his ilk's obsession with the past its easy to see why the Bermudian polity exists in such stasis.

Political parties and movements move on. They reflect the will of the electorate or what they think the will might accept in more enlightened times. How they change is directly correlated to long term trends in economic growth rates and if one exmaines growth rates across sub Mason Dixon line states in the US it is easy to identify which staes have embraced change and those which live in the past and use it as an excuse and a stick to beat themselves and each other. The next time I see Barack Obama I'll chastise him for the role the Dixiecrats played in segregation.

[silencedogood on 17.11.05 at 12:36]

I'd like to throw my previous question out to all PLP supporters on this site. I've been interested in this and have asked similar questions on other threads. There seems to be discontent among their supporters but no incentive to change. Maybe this is a weakness of the UBP, but I think it's valid to ask "what would it take?" so again:

What would you as a PLP supporter have to see in a party opposing the PLP, other than the UBP, to win your support?

[loki on 17.11.05 at 12:39]

Jake,

If the PLP were to effect real internal change, it would be absolutely entitled to say, "we've listened, learned from our past mistakes and it's time to usher in a new era". The point remains: what do people expect Jamahl to say? It's all very well and good for people to hold him out as some kind of UBP whipping boy for the last thirty years, but I really don't understand what he's supposed to say, other than what he has already said, to make people happy that he's sincere.

[sleepy on 17.11.05 at 12:42]

As you've said yourself Jake in other posts, I'll comment on what I choose to comment on not what you tell me to. But I will continue to monitor and counter your blatant misrepresentations.

When someone is as self-righteous as you are, you'd damn well better be accurate. One little error, and you've had a couple in the past few comments, is all it takes to destroy a reasonable point.

You make some good points. But you also stretch the truth when it suits you.

[SmokingGun on 17.11.05 at 13:01]

Silencedogood/Jake - I too would be interested to hear what it would take. There seems to be quite a few disenchanted PLP supporters who simply cannot see themslves vote for the UBP. And vice-versa.

Is it so inconcievable to suggest a third party could be built from the moderates of these two extreme book-ends. Could the laws of the land be adjusted to make a viable and legitimate third party happen. After all it's not hard to see that Bermuda has become like a deer in the headlights and the future is coming straight at us like a freight train on a one way track.

[Nicolette on 17.11.05 at 13:10]

I don't know why everyone's so invested in Jake's political persuasion. Why not answer the same question - what would it take for any undecideds or UBP supporters out there to vote PLP for the first time?

[Tiger Bay on 17.11.05 at 13:19]

The departure of most of the existing Cabinet.

[SmokingGun on 17.11.05 at 13:24]

Because Jake is a good bell-weather for trying to get the question answered. He is a black gentleman who votes for his party because he believes in the intrinsic values that the party was originally based on. Yet he is very dissenchanted with it's current and likely future people and the path they have chosen to follow. He obviously will not vote for the UBP no matter how much they change as he is un-trusting of what their core values are. They have a history. Some people will not buy a German or Japanese vehicle because of history.

Yet Jake is a participant. He actively supports his party. Which is something a lot of people do not do. And many post on this site regularly. To get people like Jake to switch allegiances you cannot offer somthing as contite as "we'll change". It takes a greater, more trusted body to pull the players to another team. For that reason Jake's input can help create a dialogue as to what might work, for everyone.