Better never than late

While I have a certain amount of sympathy for the UBP’s newest Senator, Gina Spence-Farmer, I hope she's not planning to turn up to the Senate at 4.15pm every week.

As far as I can tell, Bermuda College are within their rights to deny Mrs. Spence-Farmer the opportunity to take time off to participate in the Senate. Sure, it would have been better had they shown a bit more flexibility and had they not, bizarrely, refused to let her continue to produce her student radio show. But they didn’t, and they’re not the first. Last year, Appleby, Spurling and Hunter decided that they didn’t like John Barritt taking every Friday off to sit in the House, forcing him to resign.

Negotiations are still ongoing between the Bermuda College and the Bermuda Public Services Union to try to work out a deal. Yet the UBP didn’t wait for their conclusion, they appointed Mrs. Spence-Farmer to the Senate anyway. Either they hoped this would pressure the College into giving her time off to attend, or they accepted that this meant that their representative would be turning up late every week. If it was the former, they were wrong. If it was the latter, that suggests a disrespect for the Senate and the electorate whose interests Mrs. Spence-Farmer is supposed to be protecting there.

Accordingly, if a deal cannot be reached before next week’s session, Mrs. Spence-Farmer should resign her position at the College. She cannot do her job as a Senator properly if she turns up late every week.

If she’s not prepared to do that, she should never have accepted the appointment in the first place.

Comments

[Full Fullish on 18.11.05 at 05:14]

So why does a regimental soldier get time off whenever the regiment calls and Senators or MP's don't fall into this same catigory? This should all go under the term serving your country. It's a fall back to having part time politicians, or soldiers, but I feel that the situations should be treated in the same merrit.

[The Limey on 18.11.05 at 07:54]

Serving in the Regiment is mandatory; being an MP or Senator is a choice.

[Somers on 18.11.05 at 08:43]

Phil - if you volunteer for the Regiment (which I would like to see) you would have to be given time of just like the rest of the soldiers.

[Git on 18.11.05 at 09:18]

I agree with you Phil. As unfortunate as it is, Gina has backed herself into a corner and something will have to give to get her out. I suspect (and hope) she'll give up her position at the college to continue with politics.

She'll never make an impact on the Senate if she can't put her time in. That would be a shame because it appears she has so much to offer. To her credit, I think the Scott admin views her as the greatest individual threat to date.

I'm sure Gina will get wind of this thread, so I'll take the opportunity to say that I greatly admire her courage and appreciate the sacrifices she is having to make.

Thank you Gina.

[Full Fullish on 18.11.05 at 09:59]

Limey Wrote:
"Serving in the Regiment is mandatory; being an MP or Senator is a choice."

Irrelevent....both are a service and a government one at that. If we want our leaders to have full time jobs as well as help move the country then there should be legislation similar to what the Bermuda Regiment soldiers have. If not, then we need full time politicians.

[wklc on 18.11.05 at 10:07]

Full fullish,

So why such the backlash from the UBP and some of the public when the PLP suggests full time politicians? They would obviously need higher salaries, because MPs only make approx 40K a year, hence the reason for the second jobs. But if the government raised MP's salaries substantially to ensure they only had one job, then all hell would break loose.

I guess its the case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" if you happen to be PLP.

[Full Fullish on 18.11.05 at 10:42]

WKLC -
I Don't know. My personal views are that there should be full time politicians, less of a chance for conflict of interest, etc. It would be a better incentive to do a better job if it was there sole job and there was a risk of loosing it for crap service. Accountability would also have to be raised as well...

[wklc on 18.11.05 at 10:51]

Full fullish,

I agree with you.
I just think there is a tendency (from both sides) for people to support/oppose ideas strictly due to party lines, rather than the validity of the ideas.

I think fulltime politicians would ensure that the politicians did a better job as if they were voted out then their financial livelihood would be at stake. It would also give them more time to dedicate to running the country.

It has to be difficult to be Minister of any portfolio and also try to hold down a regular job.

In Senator Spence Farmer's case, I think she needs to choose one of the two though. Legally she has no grounds to stand on, and she cannot be an effective Senator if she cannot attend the Senate regularly and for the majority of the time.

[Jake on 18.11.05 at 11:14]

Nobody views Gina Spence as a threat. Did you read the coverage of her first speech?

Typical UBP attempt to gain favour with everyone. 50% Students failing. Teachers - not your fault. PLP Govt. - it's your fault. No suggestions or new ideas at all.

And in typical ubp fashion, we hand education to someone who has experience in the black community, but no undergraduate / post graduate education herself. On its face there is no problem with that, but for the fact that we should be trying to prepare our students in such a way that they have viable options post high school. Do you think you would have a leading role in private school education without a degree? What insight to education do you bring having never put the time in for one yourself?

The real reason plp people are less than accomodating with Gina is that she actually relied on her plp connections to get the College job in the first place. Lots of people vouched for her, and were surprised when she quickly turned around and joined the ubp. Her choice of course, as it was never supposed to be a quid pro quo, but I hear it really hurt a lot of people.

I think the view now is, no more vouching for Gina.

[Chris Broadhurst on 18.11.05 at 11:28]

I'm sure if I wanted to do something which would take me out of the office for a substantial portion of the week, that my bosse would have something to say about it.

Unfortunate though it is, this is of Gina's own making.

[wklc on 18.11.05 at 11:39]

I agree with Jake.

I really don't believe the PLP view Senator Spence Farmer as a threat.

Personally I believe Minister Butler will defeat her soundly at the next election, unless she is moved to a safe seat, which I doubt.

I believe that Senator Spence Farmer has put herself in a very awkward position and many people who may have held her in high esteem before are very disappointed in her. She has done a lot of good for young black people, and has acted as a role model. Many feel that if she had issues with the PLP governance she could have become a full fledged member of the PLP (and registered to vote) and used her talents to assist the party which she had aligned herself with before, instead of just jumping ship.

And there is also the opinion that PLP senators and MPs historically always had to give up their jobs to serve their countries, and many believe this was designed by the UBP government to reduce the amount of willing PLP candidates. The UBP candidates always had private enterprise behind them, and most of them came from these families. PLP candidates were traditionally common folk, educators and civil servants.

So in my summation I think Senator Spence Farmer needs to choose which battle is more important. Is it more important for her to work at the College, or can she do more good for the community as a Senator.

The choice is hers.

[Combat Banker on 18.11.05 at 11:43]

I'll tell you one thing, I did not remember seeing that article about John Barrit and AS&H. That is disgraceful. I will NEVER use them for anything if that is their attitude to Bermudian Society.

[Two Cents on 18.11.05 at 11:44]

Once again I find myself agreeing with Jake (who I am still waiting to email me), Gina has a decision to make, serve the college OR be a senator, She can't do both (well) as both require alot of time & dedication.

As Chris said
" if I wanted to do something which would take me out of the office for a substantial portion of the week, that my bosse would have something to say about it".

Now it has come to light that she isn't even registered to vote, as a voter I find that absoluteley crazy, afterall she has been involved on the fringe of politics for a while now, and she is now a senator, being registered to vote should be a pre-requisite of service as a senator.

[3rd Person on 18.11.05 at 12:23]

For the record I fully agree with Limey's post on Gina Spence. I marvel at those people who insist that Gina Spence is being treated unfairly when Barrit, Butler and others, have had to make even greater sacrifices to serve. It is times like this that I support calls for Grant Gibbons' resignation. We don't need leaders who are going to propagandize every thing they can to score political points. This is not the kind of UBP Bermuda needs, nor is it the kind of UBP that will win the next election. I lament drawing this conclusion, but after Jamahl's question time I know nothing more about the things I wanted to know, and I also now know things I wish I didn't. We need no greater evidence of why the UBP's chances have slimmed even when the PLP's performance has been so abysmal.

[sleepy on 18.11.05 at 12:23]

Gina's situation can be seen from both sides certainly, but the PLP Senator and Chair of the College should have recused himself from the decision. And then there's the hypocrisy of the radio program for Ms. Spence versus Mr. Burch. These actions have invited this criticism of retribution and hypocrisy.

[jake on 18.11.05 at 12:25]

Senator Tannock did recuse himself from the decision. It was taken by the College.

They are entitled to have this policy as they are her employer.

[sleepy on 18.11.05 at 12:27]

Wrong again Jake, you're on a roll:

From the Royal Gazette, 26 Oct entitled UBP takes aim at College hiring row

"However, Dr. Green confirmed he would review the decision with Sen. Tannock. Two days later Dr. Green stated there would be no change of heart."

and earlier in the article

"Sen. Tannock said the updated College procedures manual from 2003 clearly states that a employee can take up a position to a Government body outside normal working hours or within working hours if their college job allows for flexible scheduling.

"He went on to say that a previous instance when a College employee became a senator had been allowed because that person had moved to a position that was no longer student-centred, he added: “The Board’s primary concern is for the services that would possibly be hindered by Mrs. Farmer’s absence from campus.”"

[wklc on 18.11.05 at 12:28]

Senator Tannock did recuse himself from the decision. It was taken by the College.

They are entitled to have this policy as they are her employer.

I agree, Jake, Senator Tannock stated publicly that once the issue of Gina Spence Farmer sitting in the Senate was brought up, he excused himself from the issue so that there would be no allegations or misinterpretations that he as the Chairman and a PLP Senator had influenced the decision of the Board in anyway. It was left to the remaining members of the College board to discuss.

I find it difficult to believe that no one here other than myself and Jake heard Sen Tannock's comments. It is the same old thing that some
people have selective hearing, and selective amnesia.

[Full Fullish on 18.11.05 at 12:45]

WKLC -
"I agree with you.
I just think there is a tendency (from both sides) for people to support/oppose ideas strictly due to party lines, rather than the validity of the ideas. "

Yeah I know, I'm not one of these people. I like to think that I speak my mind and will choose whatever recomendation is best for Bermuda, regradless of the party that proposes it.

Combat Banker - I'm surprised you missed that about Barrit. It's one of the reasons why I hold him in such high regards. I believe he was either a partner or nodded to be a partner, he made the ultimate sacrifice for what he felt was the best for Bermuda, I admire anyone for doing that, it sends out a strong statement of his character. I will also refuse to use A.S.&H. for anything along those lines.

Gina Spence is definently in a tough position. It's the difference between a direct interaction with students as opposed to trying to make the system better as a whole, tough choice. The greater good would demand that she chooses senator however.

What does she do at the college again? Why is her schedule so rigid that do her government duties. (I haven't been following this very closely)

[The Limey on 18.11.05 at 12:50]

Somers

Fair point. I am, however, more likely to join the PLP than I am the Regiment. Far too much physical exertion for me! :-)

wklc

I don't believe that because PLP senators and MPs had to historically give up their jobs to serve their country, so should everyone else. If someone's employer tries to keep that person from serving their country for political reasons (rather than for sound business reasons), then it is wrong no matter what the political affiliation of that employee is.

[3rd Person on 18.11.05 at 13:01]

Sleepy/Jake,

I hope you don't mind me asking, but are either of you a past or present representative of the UBP or PLP? I'm only asking to get a better appreciation for your commentary.

I too am quite disappointed that Gina will not be able to continue with her show. As long as it doesn't become political, where is the harm? If she didn't work for Bermuda College, she'd have the same rights to do a show as Burch does, wouldn't she? Can anyone elaborate on the rules regarding Civil Servants? Are educators held to greater scrutiny?

What really does concern me though are her religious comments of late. I find it scary when a politician mingles religion in the way that she has. I wonder where she stands on gay rights, but I'm betting she will vote against them.

[wklc on 18.11.05 at 14:27]

Limey

I am not saying that just because PLP politicians had to give up their jobs that UBP politicians should have to, I was just making the point that PLP politicians did at one point make major sacrifices (predominantly financial) to enter the political ring. Its how things were, and this was propogated by the UBP. So it's amazing how when it comes back to bite them in the rear, they want to argue against the same practice that they enforced.

And with regard to Senator Spence Farmer's predicament, the PLP have stated that they welcome her to the Senate. It is a situation between the College and Senator Spence Farmer to resolve.

[3rd Person on 18.11.05 at 14:42]

WKLC,

Let's not be naive. The PLP does not welcome GSF into the Senate. No political party is happy to see an adversary come to the fore, particularly one that could be powerful. I accept that they have said otherwise, but we all know that they are merely being courteous.

[jake on 18.11.05 at 14:54]

sleepy,

Your quote makes clear that the decision, having been made, was reviewed by him. He did not participate in making the original decision. His role was in backing them up or not.

The previous Senator was Santucci and Tannock was not affiliated with the College at that time. He was reporting on the policy that the College took.

He recused himself from the original decision and that was all he had to do.

It is you who are wrong.

[sleepy on 18.11.05 at 15:02]

Continue dreaming Jake. He reviewed the decision, he defended the decision. That is not recusal. Go ahead with your lawyerly obscuring of simple concepts. That's your training and you do it well.

Regardless, your accusation that Ms. Spence used PLP connections to get her job, whether true or not, is an admission that the PLP runs the place as their own little club.

They hired her thinking she was one of them, she turned out not to be, so now they're being vengeful.

[jake on 18.11.05 at 15:05]

I am not, nor have I been, an official in the plp. I am a member and a supporter who voted in the last two elections and voted plp both times. I will be voting plp at the next election.

Look at Gina's entrance into politics and ask yourself if people really are concerned.

Ask anyone in the grass roots and they will tell you that Gina lost most of her support with the ubp move. That was the people - not the plp - making that judgment. Grass roots people are deeply suspicious of the ubp and particularly of blacks who join them.

Without the grassroots support Gina's electability disappears outside of a safe seat. Very similar to Jamahl actually, except he never had the grassroots support in the first place.

Neither one has managment / business as a natural support base because they have not achieved anything in that arena either. Jerome Dill had earned Partnership in the then AS&K before he joined the political game so he had credentials there.

Here is the test. If either one were to leave the UBP and run in the same constituency (in Jamahl's instance) or any constituency -would they garner any support?

If the answer is no, then how are they a threat?

[wklc on 18.11.05 at 15:08]

3rd person,

I concede it might have been a courtesy for them to say that, but thats all they had to do was extend a courtesy. They don't have to fight another political party's fight for them.

There is a feeling that the PLP is threatened by Senator Spence Farmer. I do not think they are threatened in the least. I think they welcome a challenge from her because they don't think she is a that strong of a candidate.

[jake on 18.11.05 at 15:18]

Sleepy,

They made the decision with him not present because he officially left the discussion and the voting on the issue.

If you need to be a lawyer to understand these simple ideas then that is a matter for you. I hear there are some classes at the college you can take. Since you say I do it so well you can borrow my old college notes. For a fee.

The College is applying the same standard to her that it applied to Santucci and as has been indicated the plp did not play a role.

I know that she reached out to plp folks as references for her college spot. Does providing a reference equate to running the college as their shop? One week later she is out condemning the plp.

If they are seeking revenge I have not heard it, but I have heard that they will not be providing any references anymore.

[3rd Person on 18.11.05 at 15:19]

WKLC,

I totally agree that they are not threatened by her, but I just thought that "welcoming" her was a stretch.

Jake,

Thanks for disclosing your political afiliation. Sleepy, are or have you been part of the UBP?

Is anyone else alarmed at GSF religious comments? We often criticise the PLP's pandering to the church vote, but are GSF's statements about doing God's will any less or more of a concern?

[sleepy on 18.11.05 at 15:29]

I'm a UBP Member. Have been for a long time. I hold no position in the party. I think they're the better choice, warts, history and all. They're not perfect, but they have the right intentions. Jake disagrees. That's ok. In fact, it makes for good debate and he lobs some valid criticism that the UBP would be wise to heed.

That does not however excuse the factual misrepresentations that litter political discussion here. I don't necessarily have the time to argue every point. But a little fact checking is necessary around here.

I do resent the tearing down of so many individuals who offer themselves as UBP candidates. It is intimidation pure and simple, an attempt to alienate black UBP members from their communities and families.

It's no different than what the UBP have been demonized for in the past. It's alive and well today.

On your religious note, evidently Ms. Spence is a very religious person. That's ok, although I too was taken aback by her comments about G-O-D.

[hotspur on 18.11.05 at 15:33]

You’re all being far too harsh. Clearly this was a brand new position and the job description wasn’t available when she accepted it. A simple mistake. Anyone could make it.

[jake on 18.11.05 at 15:38]

I agree that I can and should be called if I am in error, sleepy, and rest assured that I will extend the same courtesy to you.

As for demonizing her I have not seen that. She comes from a very staunch plp family and they see her membership in the light they see it. That is grassroots for you. They call it as they see it.

[sleepy on 18.11.05 at 16:24]

Jake: "I know that she reached out to plp folks as references for her college spot. Does providing a reference equate to running the college as their shop? One week later she is out condemning the plp."

a) hasn't she had that job for awhile?
b) If she comes from a staunch PLP background, maybe she just asked for references from her friends, not because they were PLP. Fancy that! You imply that suddenly, because she isn't PLP, they changed their opinion of her?

Sounds to me like they've got a problem not her.

[Jake on 19.11.05 at 00:43]

a. She announced her membership in the UBP some time ago.

b. You would have to ask her.

c. Yes it appears that have changed their opinion of her.

Hope that clears it up for you,

[jake on 20.11.05 at 09:51]

UBP spokesman MP Jamahl Simmons also said that if Senator Spence-Farmer said she voted in 1998, then she did.

He said: “This has exposed for the world to see the severe flaws and inadequacies in the (voters’) list produced by this PLP government that they claim didn’t need to be checked and verified.

“If Gina Spence’s name is not on the list, how many other Bermudians’ names have been dropped off? How many potential UBP supporters have lost the right to vote?”

He went on to urge “every Bermudian” to check to make sure their names are on the list, now and at election time.

Yes Jamahl, we actually are all so stupid as to believe that the PLP list is at fault for Gina Spence's failure to be registered, and her decision not to vote in 2003.

And the fact that in the wake of this story, she has registered now, does not weaken your argument one bit.

Right.

She's going to fit right in.

[Onion on 21.11.05 at 10:29]

There is government service and there is essential government service. Serving in the Bermuda Regiment is an essential service. Serving in the Senate is not.

During Hurrican Fabian I don't recall seeing the Senate out in force moving trees out of my driveway, fixing my roof and helping BELCO restore power.

[Big Bad Wolf ^..^ on 21.11.05 at 10:33]

The Senate has one important function though...It produces all the hot air that the country needs...Is this not an essential service?

[Onion on 21.11.05 at 14:31]

True true!! Aspashally viff vinter comin.

[The Limey on 22.11.05 at 13:32]

3rd person

Is anyone else alarmed at GSF religious comments? We often criticise the PLP's pandering to the church vote, but are GSF's statements about doing God's will any less or more of a concern?

Her religious comments leave me cold, but they don't concern me. As long as she's not trying to impose her faith on anyone else, she's entitled to her views.

[The Limey on 24.11.05 at 12:39]

Anyone know whether Gina Spence Farmer turned up on time for yesterday's Senate session?

[sleepy on 24.11.05 at 12:47]

On time or Bermuda time? What's the difference?

[sleepy on 13.03.06 at 17:19]

All is well again at the Bermuda College as Nikkita Scott definitively displays her PLP credentials in the Royal Gazette today.

You might be interested to know that Ms. Scott was recently appointed to take over Gina Spence's position after the College forced her out because she was appointed to the Senate for the UBP.

Funny how these things resovle themselves so nicely.