CURB your enthusiasm

When Premier Alex Scott promised a “major initiative to address those elements that seek to divide us” a couple of weeks ago, most people thought he was proposing restrictions on the freedom of the press. Possibly alarmed by the outcry that followed, the Government quickly began spinning that pledge into something more positive: a reference to an initiative to improve race relations.

Yesterday’s Throne Speech revealed that initiative: the resurrection of an umbrella organisation called Citizens Uprooting Racism in Bermuda (CURB) to recommend to the Government “tangible, achievable strategies for the elimination of racism in Bermuda”.

CURB – a combination of the Human Rights Commission (HRC), the Commission for Unity and Racial Equality (CURE) and non-governmental organisations such as the National Association for Reconciliation and Amnesty International – was briefly active in the late 1990s, but quickly withered away due to lack of funding. During its short life it made a number of recommendations to eliminate racism, including the abolition of private schools, orientation programmes for non-Bermudians, the creation of a register of jobs held by non-Bermudians and the compulsory teaching of black and Bermudian history.

The chairman of the HRC, Rod Attride-Stirling, and the executive officer of CURE, Myra Virgil, both welcomed the return of CURB yesterday. I’m underwhelmed, however.

What can CURB achieve that could not be done by CURE? Is there really a need for another level of bureaucracy?

Some of their previous recommendations don’t inspire much hope either. The abolition of private schools could lead to a better racial mix in schools, but would probably result in a decline in overall educational achievement and could drive some international businesses away. I don’t understand how the recommendations aimed at non-Bermudians would help stamp out racism either: surely this is a black/white issue, not a Bermudian/non-Bermudian one?

I hope I’m wrong. I hope CURB will be able to make a difference. If their first recommendation is for the politicians to cease and desist from the use of racially-inflammatory language, perhaps they will.

Comments

[Rev. Goat on 06.11.05 at 09:42]

“the abolition of private schools, orientation programmes for non-Bermudians, the creation of a register of jobs held by non-Bermudians and the compulsory teaching of black and Bermudian history.”

ra•cism [ ráy sìzzəm ]
Definitions:

1. animosity toward other races: prejudice or animosity against people who belong to other races
2. belief in racial superiority: the belief that people of different races have different qualities and abilities, and that some races are inherently superior or inferior

These actions or even the thought of these actions fulfill the definition of Racism.

“surely this is a black/white issue, not a Bermudian/non-Bermudian one?”

It’s a Black issue, why? It is the black population that seek to deprive others of their freedoms. There is nothing in law to prevent blacks from achieving what ever they want but should ideals such as these be implemented there will and already is legislation that restricts whites.

[jake on 06.11.05 at 10:31]

Abolition of choice in education is perhaps one of the most idiotic ideas I have ever come across, and no doubt it came from some circle of the debate with no access to the wider world market.

Here's the inherent logic: Private Schools do well. Government Schools do poorly. Let's close the private schools, and make everyone attend the same poorly operating schools.

I am of no doubt that parents would rather leave this island - foreign and Bermudian alike, for the sake of their children and their children's education. I know I would be calling in every favor in the US, UK and CAN to see where I could help my children find a proper alternative.

For the record Goat, the black population have never sought to deprive you or anyone of their freedoms. Ideas such as this restrict black families opting for private school as much as it does white families.

I would suggest you look at this issue in its true terms: there are some people who have stupid ideas about race in both the black and white community. How else could you explain an idea as perverse as removing school choice, or other ideas equally obscene, as when the private schools were white only according to their rules.

The black population is no more at fault for the above than the white population is at fault for Nancy Acton.

[The Limey on 06.11.05 at 10:37]

Goat

Abolishing the private schools may be a really dumb idea, but it wouldn't just restrict whites, it would restrict blacks too.

What other legislation is there that just restricts whites? How is the black population seeking to deprive others of their freedoms?

Whatever its previous faults, I don't believe that CURB is being established to oppress the white man.

[It Does Matter on 06.11.05 at 10:54]

Let's not be too hasty here. Let me transcribe what my dictionary describes racism as:

racism 1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority. 2. abusive or agressive behavior towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief.

That's actually a very good definition; though it is a little light on content. I dont see how having a register of non-Bermudian workers can be described as a racist initiative. Nor do I see how teaching black history and abolishing private schools is racist either.

If teaching black history in school is racist, then how do we account for the teaching of European history in our system? That sounds like a double-standard.

Unless you believe European history is more important.

Observe Limey's quote:

"Some of their previous recommendations don’t inspire much hope either. The abolition of private schools could lead to a better racial mix in schools, but would probably result in a decline in overall educational achievement and could drive some international businesses away."

It's hard for me to see how there will be lower standards by integrating the school system. It reminds me of the kinds of arguments put forward in 1950s America when the segregated school system was being challenged. In BROWN -v- BOARD OF EDUCATION, Thurgood Marshall suggested in oral argument, that the only way the court could justify segregated elementary schools was if they believed that young black students were inherently inferior to young white students.

You may not see it, but Limey's comments reek of the same misbelief. They actually conducted scientific (if that's possible) test on both white and black children for BROWN -v- BOARD and found that at elementary level, the children were equal. The differences came after years of social manipulation.

Everybody in Bermuda knows that the public school system is not utilized to any great extent by white students. On the other hand, the public system is sometimes the only option for black students. Limey's comments imply that there is inferiority in the public school system. His comments imply that the public school system is full of under-achievers.

I was publicly schooled. I don't lack intelligence in any regard. If, as a kid, I was mixed with white students, I don't see how those white students would be affordeed a lesser opportunity to succeeed.

While I am not calling Limey a racist; it must be understood how easy it is to be trapped into making racially prejudiced remarks.

If there is one thing that should be added to the definition of racism above is this: a consciousness. What do I mean? There is a distinction between holding racially prejudiced beliefs and being a racist. Both are problematic, but it is unfair to blend the two.

Many people of all races and backgrounds have racially prejudiced views. Some cower from persons in hats and baggy pants because they subconsciously feel baggy pants and hats represents a person involved in criminal activity. Some consider black people thugs and inferior mentally. Some consider all whites to be racist.

All the above views -- and more -- are suspect. And though I wouldn't automatically call the person who holds those views being racist; those ideologies must be desintegrated. So if this means removing the current school-system dress code, even, and replacing it with baggy pants and hats, then so be it. It is very difficult to hold a belief that baggy pants and hats represents criminality when you wear baggy pants and hats daily.

Don't take my words as an assault on your opinion. They are merely written as food for thought.

Personally, I am not one for beauracracy myself. I dont think you need 4 organizations to do the work 1 can do. But what you do need is a vision, a goal you work toward. Without it, then every initiative is bound to fail.

It is about time we talk candidly about race. We speak logically about racial differences. There are some. We sit to the round table and rationalize this out. Rationalization does not include calling an organization your people have never attempted to join institutionally racist. It does not include justifying oppressive practices.

[It Does Matter on 06.11.05 at 11:10]

Oh, and when I was writing the above, I missed the post made before it. Here is my rationalization for destroying the private-school public-school distinction.

Think about society where everyone is to be treated fairly. The kids are the same in everybody's eyes. The business owner is equally capable whether they be white or black. The academic isn't lesser because of his/her complexion.

In that scenario, the school system should not be allowed to preach a distinction. If you could buy a better education; and one group of persons have more money to do the buying, there is clear inequality. By abolishing the "ability to buy" then both groups bare the brunt of a bad system, or reap the benefits of a good system. If the buyers wish their children to succeed, they would use their money and know-how to improve the existing sytem.

I read some comments above that persons would just leave Bermuda. Sending your child out of Bermuda to save it from going to a public school, rather than improving the system for both your kid and others, is deplorable.

[It Does Matter on 06.11.05 at 11:19]

How about this:

Bermuda does not abolish private schools. A law is passed where a percentage of private-school fees is raked off the top and given to government. The money made from this initiative, is used by the government to subsidize University education for all those students who attended at least a certain amount of a years in the public-school system past elementary- and middle-school level.

I feel this would give the students who are all-to-often characterized as 'underachievers' a hope to succeed past their neighborhoods. It would spark new life in their pursuit of education.

Would you agree with the above initiative?

[ace on 06.11.05 at 11:51]

As usual the government has everything backwards.

Get rid of PUBLIC schools would be a better idea.

It costs less per student to send kids to private schools RIGHT NOW!

[It Does Matter on 06.11.05 at 12:01]

Let me understand:

Are you suggesting that government should disband public schools, and pay for students to attend private school? or are you saying government should disband public schools and let families fend for themselves?

Who will it cost less?

[jake on 06.11.05 at 12:06]

That is an interesting take on the role of choice.

I was educated in public schools as well, but that does not mean that parents who deem it appropriate should not have the option of paying to educate their children in a manner outside of the Government system. The last time we had integration in the education system was when there was Warwick Academy and Berekely Institute, which were set aside as academic schools with competitive admittance. WA was successful in having an integrated student body with a virtually all white staff. Berkeley had a virtually all black student body, with an integrated teaching staff. Both were options for students who wanted to be educated in an environment perceived as high achievment.

The suggestion made to improve the view of the Secondary Schools was to remove the academic selection from the top schools so that everyone would have an equal chance with their education. It failed for the same reason that this would fail - people with money do have a choice. They leave.

What we now have is a WA that opted to go private rather than accept what they deemed average students, and a BI that has remained in the system alongside and Cedarbridge Academy (CA) and both are seen as low achievers because of the high failure rates.

The issues in Brown were significantly different. In Brown the choice was between segregation based on race - not academic achievement. I would concede that the 11 plus exams appeared to yield biased results against black male children in particular, but surely the answer was to improve the training and the testing - not remove the test.

As to your final suggestion, Private Schools should not be taxed. The parents of children in private school already pay taxes for services their children do not use. Why should they pay more? Again I say that we as Bermudians need to move beyond the entitlement mentality. What do the children or parents of a private school owe anyone else? Some are there because their parents are wealthy. Others because their parents are sacrificing. The socialist argument for wealth distribution fails because it always takes more from the upwardly mobile than it does from the resident wealthy. People will react to the incentives we place before them.

The money in any event is not the issue and never has been. More money is spent per child in public school that in private. How does yet more funding address what is in essence a failure to accept the fact that the social problems contained in the public schools and the methods of instruction are the cause of the failure? Not the kids at another school.

[jake on 06.11.05 at 12:13]

I would say yes - get rid of the public schools and let every parent have the same power to spend their allocated education dollars where they perceive their child will get the best results.

How else do you get education providers to react to the fact that 40% of the people who buy their product get a lemon?

The reason there is no improvment is that there are no consequences. The children fail - we pay the funds. The children pass - we pay the funds. Ever notice that the strikes in education relate to the funds - not the performance?

I am not for a free for all, however. Accredited schools and programs are what I would support. But let the parents know that if a school does not respond well, there will be financial consequences.

[It Does Matter on 06.11.05 at 12:29]

I went to Berkeley Institute. From that fact alone, do you think I'm less intelligent than persons who went to BHS or MSA, or Saltus?

You're implying that money equals intelligence. If my family could not afford for me to go a private school, should I be deemed an underachiever?

And what tax do parents of private school students pay that they dont use? Do they live in a different society than everybody else? A different world?

[ace on 06.11.05 at 12:57]

Jake:
"I am not for a free for all, however. Accredited schools and programs are what I would support. But let the parents know that if a school does not respond well, there will be financial consequences."

Agreed 100%.

It Does Matter:
"I went to Berkeley Institute. From that fact alone, do you think I'm less intelligent than persons who went to BHS or MSA, or Saltus?"

Not at all. Very silly for anyone to make that assumption.

This isn't about race though, it only seems that way because "Private school" immediately conjures up images of deeply tanned soccer mom's dropping off their kids and heading to Coral Beach for lunch and a round of doubles with "the girls". It isn't fact 90% of the time...but that is the way it is percieved.

It really is about the size and cost of the entire education department.

It is waaay too big...waaaaay too costly and it is effectively depriving many of our youth the attention they deserve.

Some of the best and brightest kids in Bermuda are at Cedarbridge. Some of the most in need of dire attention are there too and the resources to give it to them are being sucked up by a burgeoning beaurocracy.

[NoVote on 06.11.05 at 13:04]

'It Does Matter' wrote: "I don't lack intelligence in any regard."

Having read the nonsensical drivel in your posting, I don’t believe you.

And please note that my comments are not directed so much at your ridiculous conclusions, but rather the flimsy structure of your argument.

[jake on 06.11.05 at 13:15]

I went to the Berkeley Institute as well, and I am a huge advocate for the school, so no, I am not saying that.

My point is not that you are less intelligent, but that the perception of the education at our school is that it is less prestigious than it was. Don't blame me for that. It is the result of the academic results coming out of the public system.

I never said money = intelligence. What I did say was that those who choose private school include the wealthy and people who sacrifice.

They pay the same taxes you do, but do not use the public schools - which those taxes support. As such they pay twice.

I invite you to respond to the idea that additional money will not solve the problem, and that even if it could, the parents at private schools do not owe you anything anyway. How could they, simply on the basis that they choose to educate their own children - and pay for it - instead of following whatever wind is blowing the Government of the day?

[blovator on 06.11.05 at 13:37]

I have done a bit of research on this.

The average cost of putting a kid through the public system is $16,000. To send a kid to Saltus is $12,000. People who send thier kids to private school pay for thier education twice because they pay taxes. Performance in the public system is way below the private sector even though it cost 33% more. This situation has been creating an under-educated class for two to three decades. They are mostly black and bermudian. They should be angry. The UBP ripped them off. And the PLP is doing them no favors either.

The system does not work. According to the CURE definition of racism it is racist even under the PLP. What clearly works better ( but not brilliantly granted ) is the private system.

Therefore:
1. Abolish the department of ed.
2. Privatise the schools
3. spend the money we would have wasted on public ed on grants for poor children.
4. Make a solem promise as a society to allow a child to go the school that he is capable of no matter what the cost. This will actually end up being cheaper than the mindless waste down on Dundonald Street or whereever the dep of ed lives now.
5. Schools will become competitive. And that might be a good thing.

If there is a better solution I would love to hear it. Unfortunately the solution that will be adopted by this government is to sit on its hands.

As for the new level of buearacracy, folks I wouldn't worry too much about CURB. If last two years I will be very surprised.

[Uncle Elvis on 06.11.05 at 14:03]

Wow. Couple of things.

"Everybody in Bermuda knows that the public school system is not utilized to any great extent by white students."

WHAT? You're SERIOUS about this?
You need to wake the hell up, my man. While, yes, the public school system is predominantly black, this in no way means that your above statement is correct. You gotta stop twisting things so obviously if you want to educate people. Here's your brush, make sure you paint every one of us with it.

Private schools perform better than public ones. 33% better, according to data upthread. Regardless of colour, regardless of race, this is a fact.
Anything else is not important.

Also...
"Many people of all races and backgrounds have racially prejudiced views. Some cower from persons in hats and baggy pants because they subconsciously feel baggy pants and hats represents a person involved in criminal activity..."

Um. this is not a racial thing, it's a cultural one. If someone cowers from Black guys in general, then, yeah, that's racially prejudiced. If someone cowers from a black guy dressed like a hoodlum, then.. well.. they're cowering from someone dressed like a hoodlum. Come on. Think of it this way. If you saw a white guy dressed in white robes and a pointy cowl, you'd think, "Hey, that guys a racist!" wouldn't you?

Dressing like a thug is a personal choice.
Being black isn't.

[Full Fullish on 06.11.05 at 14:26]

It Doesn't Matter Wrote:
"I went to Berkeley Institute. From that fact alone, do you think I'm less intelligent than persons who went to BHS or MSA, or Saltus?

You're implying that money equals intelligence. If my family could not afford for me to go a private school, should I be deemed an underachiever?

And what tax do parents of private school students pay that they dont use? Do they live in a different society than everybody else? A different world?"

Oh don't be asinine! Warwick Academy, when it was public had just as good as, or better educational standards than all of the private schools! This however doesn't hold the same with all public schools. Why doesn't the government, instead of crippling our education further, decide to, oh I don't know, improve the standards of some of the public schools which are so lacking! For instance, after graduation from a private school, I went to Bermuda College for 2 years, ironically they were teaching the same course (same textbooks and all) that I had already taken in grade 9 (about 5 years prior), what the hell was that?!? Government in past and present have been constantly lowering educational standards to not leave behind those from the select educationally challenged public schools. End result, everyone looses. They should be raising the bar constantly when it comes to educaiton, this has to start with the public schools on upwards. Did you know that they are, in some nursery schools, teaching Spanish already? This is wonderful! However what's happening in the public schools to continue with this educaitonal standard? Nothing!

You are not deemed to be an underachiever, however the government and M.o.E are forcing everyone in the public schools to become one weather they want to or not. Come one, a 47% passing rate speaks for itself, no matter what spin you put on it. Due to this, it has come down to money buying a better education, but it shouldn't be this way, and it's the governments fault it is, not the private schools or people who attend(ed) them. It should be this way. Bring up the educational levels, I say, then people will have a choice to go to private or public, but soley based upon aspects of the school (MSA for religious studies, etc, BHS all girls, etc) NOT cause one is educationally better than the other. This is where we should be today! If you have complaints, I suggest you send them to Terry Lister. But good luck with that, I have yet to recieve a reply from him for anything I've sent to date.

[Full Fullish on 06.11.05 at 14:30]

It Doesn't Matter:
"Bermuda does not abolish private schools. A law is passed where a percentage of private-school fees is raked off the top and given to government. The money made from this initiative, is used by the government to subsidize University education for all those students who attended at least a certain amount of a years in the public-school system past elementary- and middle-school level."

Most private schools are non profit, why in the hell should they give to the public schools? Government should have educaiton at the top of the list when it comes to financial budget, but they don't. How many books would the $11 million have puchased for the public schools that went to cricket instead. Government has the funds to finance the public school system properly, they just don't have a clue how to allocate properly, most of it is squandered on CRAP which should be used for our children!

[Phil on 06.11.05 at 15:14]

It Does Matter

I believe that abolishing private schools will lead to a lowering of educational standards anywhere in the world. I held the same view when I lived in the UK, where both public and private schools were comprised of white pupils. This is not a race issue.

(The UK Labour party for years championed the abolition of private schools. It was one of the main reasons why they remained stuck in Opposition for so long. Only when they abandoned this and other socialist ideas did they become electable.)

Private schools have to get better results than public schools. If they do not, why would anyone pay to send their kids there? That does not mean that individual pupils cannot succeed in the public system or fail in the private system, though.

Let's not get stuck on this one issue, though. I'd also like to hear what people think about the idea of CURB more generally.

[Cancundreaming on 06.11.05 at 16:07]

This is a interesting conversation, because I’m someone from both sides of the fence so to speak. I attended both private and public schools, Ridley College and Berkeley respectively. What's even more interesting is that Ridley and boarding schools like it, are a bastion of elitism, the very type of elitism that lead to the creation of an institution like Berkeley, at least in its past form.

Should private schools be outlawed, no. Because i don't believe that solves the problem of public education, it also won’t prevent students from attending private school overseas and I think many of you would be surprised by the number of Bermudian students who attend boarding school in the U.S and Canada.. I attended the 'old Berkeley' as they call it, but when compared i was shocked how different the quality of the education was at the two schools.

Does money matter, i think it does, at least on the institutional level, a high school with an endowment fund and parents willing to pay yearly fees equal to that of a new car certainly has advantages over public schools and even private schools like Saltus or BHS....

However, i don't think money equals intelligence, am I two times smarter then Saltus’ students because my school cost twice as much, of course not, but there is an aspect or element of private schools that is lacking in many public schools, maybe that is the question we have to ask ourselves, I’m not sure...

Some anecdotal tidbits that others may have shared, but one difference i noticed between private and public was the desire to not only exceed but do better then everyone, at Berkeley you wanted to do well, but not necessarily better then everyone else, but at private school you wanted to be the best, you wanted to get the top grade and while i realize this is somewhat of a generalization... i think the sentiment still holds...i also noticed within myself that as soon as my parents started paying for my education, i really felt that i shouldn't waste their money....Not a goal to fix public education, I admit that, but I thought it was interesting nonetheless.

[Silent Majority on 06.11.05 at 18:40]

Privatizing public schools and letting parent choose where their kids can go to be educated seems to be a very good idea. Competition is always a good thing---how can the system get any worse?

The government could play a role in providing an accredited facility(ies) for learning challenged or behaviroal challenged kids. Private schools as they are today are not well equipped to handle this type of student.

What I find remarkable is that the ministry of ed is not just blown up and recreated from scratch. The Public School System has been destroyed by nepotism and poor management, and what politicians and their ilk do not say is that a significant percentage of the current public school staff including the min of ed are simply not qualified to do the job.

Of course removing them woud cost the politicians votes, a power struggle with unions and short term chaos, and this avoided at the expense at the successive generations of kids coming out of the system with terrible cognitive abilities. Its just sad.

I really respect the kids who can excel in this system and I sympathize with the teaches/staff who are qualified and care for the wellbeing of their students, but drastic times calls for drastic measures....the present system is just not working and needs surgery, not bandaids.

[Rev. Goat on 06.11.05 at 19:36]

Private schools have higher pass rates because they are 'filtered' with entrance examinations and a parent that is paying for the child’s education has an interest in the results. That’s what makes the school better.

The schools need to be streamed. An elite academic school, a tech school, an arts school and so on. Each being equipped correctly for their students. Violent unruly children need to go back to Paget Island. Too many kids now 'know' what they can get away with, the teachers just call in social workers who then tell the kid it’s not his/her fault. no accountability with the teachers either.

"It does matter" is an obvious communist who would have us all believe there is this Utopia that we could have if we just "got along". Sorry the world is not like that, from the board rooms to the streets there will always be the takers and the givers. The PLP are takers in my book and any cockeyed scheme they put forward needs to be viewed as such.

CURB is just another racially biased PLP sponsored hack job. What is “uprooting” supposed to mean? Sounds a bit aggressive to me, especially as it’s obvious that this is the result of the TB and Media CRAP. Is the RG going to be uprooted, and who will the citizens be?

[blovator on 06.11.05 at 20:04]

All in all, a weak throne speach. CURB is going no where. They should have developed CURE more. That woman who got quoted on this blog, the director? She seemed to have some idea what her role was and she seems articulate - which is gold in this government.

[straight2dpoint on 06.11.05 at 22:06]

I don't believe that CURB reflects a genuine desire on the part of the PLP government to eliminate discrimination. Why the deafening silence concerning equal rights for gays? Because it's politically expedient to discriminate against 10% of the (black) population than to lose the church vote. I await with bated breath Rod Attride-Stirling's comments on that omission from the Throne speech.

[Phil on 06.11.05 at 22:26]

Take your point, but keep this thread about CURB please, not about the omission of protection for gays.

Also, please avoid turning this into a general discussion on the education system: the only relevant issue is CURB's prior suggestion that abolishing private schools would help reduce racism.

[Rincewind on 06.11.05 at 23:27]

ok, if I can't have my say on the disgusting education system, has anybody looked at the number of blacks in private schools. There is large number of black kids. So how can the idea of abolishing private schools help race relations? It is nothing more than the usual smokescreen and BS from another useless commitee

[J Galt on 07.11.05 at 00:00]

"You're implying that money equals intelligence"

Intelligence and earnings can be shown to have a positve correlation

[Rincewind on 07.11.05 at 00:06]

"the compulsory teaching of black and Bermudian history."

Isn't the statement of cumpulsory teaching of Bermudian history rather redudant, what other history are they taught in Primary school?

"the creation of a register of jobs held by non-Bermudians"

isn't that being done when work permits are applied for?

"The abolition of private schools could lead to a better racial mix in schools, but would probably result in a decline in overall educational achievement and could drive some international businesses away."

see my previous postings.

Here we have a new commission devoted to what?

[Uncle Elvis on 07.11.05 at 00:20]

"Intelligence and earnings can be shown to have a positve correlation"

Yeah. 'cuz all the trust fund kids are frickin' genius and Nikolai Tesla was a moron.

I'm sure it CAN be shown to have a correlation.
In a vacuum, with a smart person and a less intelligent person starting at zero, I'm sure the smart person would get richer faster. But that's not how whe world works, really, is it?

We're not talking about earning. We're talking about schools. How many kids pay their own way at primary and high school levels?

CURB's idea to get rid of private school is a kneejerk reaction to the stereotype (one that is obviously still prevalent) that Private Schools are full of all the white kids and the po' black folk have to go to public school 'cuz the man keeps them down. It's ridiculous. Where was it that John Swan's kids went to school? Oh, yeah. Private School.

It's anti-elitist rhetoric designed to make black folks angry at white folks, and that's all it is.

[Uncle Elvis on 07.11.05 at 00:22]

"Isn't the statement of cumpulsory teaching of Bermudian history rather redudant, what other history are they taught in Primary school?"

British History, American History, European history and... oh, yeah... here's a week or two on Bermudian History... and I GUESS we have to have a Black history week.

The educational system here IS very skewed to American and European history. I personally would LOVE to see more African History and Bermudian History taught.

[Rincewind on 07.11.05 at 00:41]

in 4 years of primary school my son did nothing but Bda history. Why not WORLD HISTORY?

[It Does Matter on 07.11.05 at 05:07]

QUESTIONS:

It's not true that there are significantly more white students in private schools than blacks?

Its not true that exempt company donates large amounts of money to private schools in Bermuda?

Its not true that public school has been stigmatized as being full of violent, disorderly underachievers?

Its not true that 95% of the students in the public school system are black?

AND TWO MORE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS:

Many of you suggest that Bermuda should do away with the public school system. Should there be any public schools? or should schools be public up to a certain grade then private thereafter?

What assurances would there be that children are selected to attend these private schools on merits-based criteria only?

HOW ABOUT THIS VIEW?

There is also a view held among many that private schools students are allowed progression largely because of monetary influence. Because they pay, their grades reflect better results than others with the same intellectual acumen. This view, though not always true, holds some water.

I remember when I was in secondary school. I had a couple friends who opted for the private route. Their grades were always at the 95% and above level. My grades were significantly different. But when outside our respective educational regimes, my friends were not any more intelligent than me.

ONE FINAL REMARK

If the abolishment of private schools would not lead to greater interracial mixing, and thereby to a more racially friendly society, please indicate other ways to target societal imbalances taught at the elementary- and secondary-school ages.

I am very interested in your thoughts on the above.

[observor on 07.11.05 at 06:59]

It Does Matter

Are you attempting to make statements or ask questions? Unfortunately your grammar has me confused.

It's not true that there are significantly more white students in private schools than blacks? Not true.

Its not true that exempt company donates large amounts of money to private schools in Bermuda? Please quantify and clarify your point. Private schools raise money from all sectors of our society. Exempt companies also donate funds across a broad sector of our society.

Its not true that public school has been stigmatized as being full of violent, disorderly underachievers? Is this a question or statement?

Its not true that 95% of the students in the public school system are black? Again, is this a question or a statement?.

There is also a view held among many that private schools students are allowed progression largely because of monetary influence. Because they pay, their grades reflect better results than others with the same intellectual acumen. This view, though not always true, holds some water. Wrong, look at the test results.

If the abolishment of private schools would not lead to greater interracial mixing, and thereby to a more racially friendly society, please indicate other ways to target societal imbalances taught at the elementary- and secondary-school ages. There is a very simple solution IDM (albeit extremely difficult to implement), improve public school education at all levels.

[Bill Cook on 07.11.05 at 09:13]

Not being an Academic it was always my belief that intelligence was something one is born with and education can increase knowledge but not intelligence.

How ones earning capacity is influenced in my opinion would be possibly because of ones skills in their chosen profession not so much intelligence.
Skills can be aquired by a learning process.

I have always felt that much of the education we get is not always useful in getting a well paid job and my thrust would be in the technical college route to prepare one for the job market.

[It Does Matter on 07.11.05 at 10:21]

It is sad, that you seem to dwell on my grammar, and not the substance of my questions.

I have further questions:

Do you think Bermuda has a racial problem?

If yes, do you think that racial problem is as a result of societal influence upon Bermuda's youth?

If yes to the first question, and considering your answer to the second question, what can Bermuda do to turn around its racial problem?

[Big Bad Wolf ^..^ on 07.11.05 at 10:28]

Bill you will remember that the Bermuda Tech was destroyed by the UBP. It would be nice to see a Tech department to be developed at the Bermuda College and Secondary High School students streamed into it from their senior year and complete their studies on a Junior College format.Overseas study would make sense for a year or semester where courses do not make economic logic in a strictly Bermuda sense with specialist tech courses.Obviously the Bermuda Training board would be in the loop on all of this.Liberal arts and Tech courses are an excellent educational mix.

[Bill Cook on 07.11.05 at 10:40]

Wolf,
Yes I recall the Tech college and you are correct it was a huge mistake to close it and it should be revived.

I left school at 14 but started my apprenticeship by both working and going to the Belfast college of Technology nights for seven yrs.

Many really skilled artisans were produced this way and it is long overdue to be reinstated in Bermuda.

Nowadays tradespersons can earn great salaries and have a secure future and thankfully not everyone wants to be a lawyer or accountant.

[Wickering Banker :-) ----: on 07.11.05 at 11:07]

Alex Scott promised a “major initiative to address those elements that seek to divide us”

He should start with himself.

[J Galt on 07.11.05 at 11:17]

"it was always my belief that intelligence was something one is born with and education can increase knowledge but not intelligence."

Bill I would agree, that intelligence is limitied by genetic potential, and education, allows one to reach the upper limit of ones potential.

No different than the small percentage of the human population that has the genetic potential to run a 4 minute mile, with out proper training most of these individuals would be unable to achive a sub four minute mile, at the same time those with out the potential, no matter how hard they train will never be able to break that barrier.

Some skills are more complex than others and it is intellegence that dictates if you are able to learn a skill, and how quickly you will learn it.

Yes all men are not created equal, and if you are lucky enough to be born with above average intelligence, or lucky enough to be born to a rich family, then you will have an advantage over those that aren't. That is life.

[Uncle Elvis on 07.11.05 at 11:39]

Amazing! We've never been asked that question, It.
Jesus. GUYS! GUYS! I figgered it out! Check it out!

"Do you think Bermuda has a racial problem?"

Great, huh?

It. Stop stirring up shit. Please.

Again. Here's the brush. Make sure you paint all of us with it. Your Broadstrokes approach to argument is insidious and self serving.
How about suggestion a solution, rather than exhibit Bud-like tendencies.

As for World History, Rincewind, I agree with you, but when you look at it from a World History point of view, anything to do with Africa and Asia is sorely lacking. I would love to see several months dedicated to African History, and I'd love for it to cover a little more than Egypt and Ethiopia (Neither of which are very well represented, but seem to be the most popular when it comes to Black History.) (Most popular? Scratch that. They seem to be the ONLY thing we hear about, in my opinion). There's a whole continent, almost 4 times the size of America, that a majority of our population has a strong connection to... and we hardly teach anything about it. It doesn't make sense to me.

[blovator on 07.11.05 at 12:02]

To It Matters,

You will remember that the UBP, in its depravity, closed the popular Tech school. One of a series of sins it committed against the defenseless dep of ed. The PLP promised to open another tech school all these many years ago. Nothing happened. Test scores have been down just as long as the PLP have been in power. Nothing done about it. Now you suggest that the only schools that work - private - should close so that government - a clear failure at running schools - should run all the schools! What?

CURE defines institutional racism as a situation in which the effect of the institution is surround an individual with people like he or her self. By this definition, the PLP and UBP's management of public schools is racist. And since the lousy public schools are predominantly black - it is blacks who suffer under the institutional racism of the PLP.

Obolish the dep of ed
Set up a trust to pay for those children without the money
Be sure that deserving children get into schools of thier caliber

Its cheaper
Its better
Its fairer

Otherwise we go on ripping off black children and everyone who pays taxes.

Dep of Ed is a racist ripoff!

[jake on 07.11.05 at 12:16]

I think you need to examine your racism definition.

Not every instance of an organization with a homogenous make up is racist.

To answer It Does Matter's question on the transition from public to private, I agree there would need to be some phased approach during which schools would be accredited.

So for example 5 schools apply to be certified and 3 make it. The three that make it are certified for 200 students each. 1000 parents apply. The schools determine who gets the spaces based on testing or whatever criteria (all girls, dance, technical skill, business and accounting) and the remainder have to stay in the public system. Those accepted have their spaces paid for by the Government at say $15,000 each.

Current private schools would also be eligible for certification and their students fees paid at same level ($15,000). Schools can charge more, but the subsidy level would remain at $15,000. Any "overage" is paid by parents.

That way education is free for everyone in Bermuda. Everyone.

Additional schools would be needed and demand would be met by the supply of new schools and the expansion of existing schools.

A school with 200 students paid $15,000 per student has a base revenue of $3,000,000. Deduct for facilties they can lease (Govt. can lease out its existing facilities to the schools) and then funds for salaries and then you have profits. (Yes - you need profits to encourage people to invest).

You could even allow parents to become shareholders.

Board of Governors = Board of Directors

One thing is for sure, if a school could not control its violence problem, parents would vote with their feet, and giving them the money to decide with themselves, they would then be empowered.

At the end of the day, we decide what we want to buy in every other category - why not this one?

[Two Cents on 07.11.05 at 12:25]

"Dressing like a thug is a personal choice.
Being black isn't."

Uncle Elvis, this is the point I have been trying to make over & over again, on other posts, it boils down to the lack of positive role models for young black, bermudian males.

Our sports stars, musicians, and entertainers (I use the last two descriptions loosely) have made it fashionable to
- Dress like thugs
- Resort to violence at the drop of a hat
- Have several children, sometimes for several different women
- Take drugs, abuse alcohol
- Carry weapons

These are the people that our younger members of society look upto whereas we looked upto to our heroes for ability, skills, talent, etc, our young people now have a limited selection of clean living, line toeing, heroes, and their only alternative are a bunch of THUGS.

I once read somewhere (sorry I can'tt remember where) that after he got married, had kids, settled down, etc Michael Jordon's popularity plumetted, and his merchandise sales lessened as he was no longer considered cool with that THUG segment of the population

[SmokingGun on 07.11.05 at 12:35]

Some very credible points Jake. Charter schools in the US are often set up with government funding and allowed to operate with less restriction as long as they can maintain an acceptable grade average. A semi gov/private run program would make sense in Bermuda. If it were run with a strong effort to be inclusive of children from all backgrounds it would likely be very successful.

[blovator on 07.11.05 at 12:36]

Jake

I use the definition of institutional racism provided by CURE, as stated.

I think the current price for Saltus is $12,000 a year and the other private schools are cheaper. The public schools seem to come in at about 16,000 a year.

I think its a good idea to get people thinking about this. When ever the subject comes up it is quickly shouted down. Part of the reason for this is that a part of the black community made big sacrifices for public education over the years. They refuse to see this sacrifice deliberately dropped in order to support the very elitism they were fighting against. After so many years of the UBP's betrayals, many of them hope (vainly I say) for a revelation on the part of the PLP as to the importance of education.

If the old black education faction can be brought round, the road is more open. They are important.

[lickinalong on 07.11.05 at 12:47]

I doubt that the new CURB will pick up where the old CURB left off. They will start anew developing their own approach. So focusing on the proposals of the old CURB is a bit counterproductive but still interesting.

The idea to abolish private schools is so 1970s. More progressive communities are now trying schemes such as vouchers to try and make publicly funded schools more responsive to parents and students. This gives parents more choice and in a free and democratic society choice is good particularly in education.

Secondly let's not forget that the primary role of schools is to educate their students. That's a difficult job at the best of times. When schools are made responsible for social engineering programs such as the forced integration of Bermuda, attention will be diverted from their primary role. Of course the way to fully integrate Bermuda's public schools is to provide a better education than private schools. I can assure you that if that happened, Bermuda public schools would be overwhelmed with applicants from private schools. In many ways government schools will have no excuses for failing to achieve that goal. Once the new Berkeley is open, public schools will arguably have the best physical plants on the island. Secondly government schools have higher levels of financing per student than private schools. I for one hope it happens for then we will achieve a better educated Bermuda and one that will be more integrated.

[Rincewind on 07.11.05 at 13:06]

"Of course the way to fully integrate Bermuda's public schools is to provide a better education than private schools."

Exactly, well said. The debate of closing private schools is pointless. If government system invest more money per student than private schools why is the system so second rate? Maybe that would be a good place for CURB to start to 'recommend to the Government “tangible, achievable strategies for the elimination of racism in Bermuda”. '

[blovator on 07.11.05 at 13:07]

Blovator's first rule of government beauracracy:

If you want it done wrong, get the govenment to do it.

I do not think the new Berkeley Academy will change much. Its not facilities that make the difference. Primarily its public attitude. The best minds of both parties have been Ministers of the Dep of Ed, that includes the present minister. Without a very positive program of public leadership, those men and women will not make a difference. The change has to come from the Premier and it has to come from the mass of public opinion led by that premier.

The current situation in Bermuda indicates that, MORE THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY I can think of , Bermuda must embrace education as a way of life. We have to embrace it the way the jews do. With them it is a systemic feature of thier culture. At the moment, for us, its something we complain about but don't actually support.

We are paying for that. And we will pay more.

[Uncle Elvis on 07.11.05 at 13:17]

I agree, 2¢,
To paraphrase a once-wise man, Dennis Miller, How messed up is society when "Einstein" is an insult?

Positive Role model: Tiger Woods
Not so much?: Fifty Cent

Positive Role Model: Colin Powell
Not so much?: P Diddy, or whatever he's calling himself now.

Positive Role Model: Denzel Washington, Laurence Fishburne, Sidney Poitier
Not so much?: Mike Tyson, Lil Kim, Fifty Cent (I know I said him before. I just thought it needed repeating.)

If CURB is REALLY serious... if WE are really serious about helping with racism, we need to do many things, not the least of which are:

a) DEFINE racism and make the definition stick. Saying that "cowering" from kids dressed like hoodlums should not be acceptable. Cultural influences are totally different from racial ones. I'd be nervous of a white kid dressed like a hoodlum, too. I think most would.

b) glorify positive role models and stop allowing negative ones to infiltrate our kids. When someone's claim to fame is that he's been shot SEVERAL times, we need to rethink our value system, no?
Mike Tyson bit a guy's ear off and he's still in the news. How can this be? Vivien Thomas was one of the first black heart surgeons and no one's heard of him.

c) Call people on stereotyping. Black, White, whatever. If someone makes statements like "Black People are like this, white people do this", it's not helping (I'm looking at you, DL Hugley).

d) Give us, ALL of us, something to be proud of. In return, how about all of us do something that others can be proud of? Complaining is fine. Solutions are better.

there's about a gajillion other things that need to be done, but...

(ps, how're you feeling, 2¢, my brother? You got out to early for me to visit! Let me know next time you're in... I'll bring the Jeopardy Home Game!)

[silencedogood on 07.11.05 at 16:05]

Jake & Uncle Elvis--I've enjoyed both of your posts in this thread

NoVote--hilarious

All,
I find the government's kneejerk reaction to any problem is to infringe on our freedoms. That's scary. The premiere was criticized in the media--oh, crackdown on that and create a government TV station. Public schools failing--oh, outlaw private schools.

Neither private nor public schools should be banned. We have little enough choices on the island. What needs to happen is that the Dept. of Education needs to look at what is making the private schools successful from a discipline, curriculum, human resources and physical resource perspective and implement that in the public schools.

There needs to be objective criteria on which teachers performance is measured and if they don't perform, fire them and hire someone else.

If there aren't any teachers who presently meet those standards in bermuda, institute a training program and bring in the best ex-pat teachers available until local teachers measure up. If local teachers who are capable are in short supply indefinitely, well then keep bringing in expats. Do not lower standards. A teacher can't transfer knowledge they don't have.

It might be useful to give all kids a tax voucher so that if a school still is doing a terrible job they can get the hell out of there so they don't have to act as the social guinea pigs for whatever party is in power at the moment.

It seems that people are forgetting the point with their squabbles over race and public vs. private that the economy is only as good as the value Bermuda brings to the table. Education of our kids is the only way to create that value. If we don't give them the tools to compete by graduation then at best, they are starting with a severe handicap, at worst they will probably never catch up. Universities teach university level courses and don't coddle students who aren't ready.

Not to mention the large numbers who aren't cut out for higher learning or who are but don't pursue it. Everyone would be better off if they had the basics.

The system, as it now exists, is so fundamentally broken that debates over African vs. European history are beside the point. They could try to teach african history all day but at current rates only about 1/2 of the students would be able to find Africa on the map by the end of the year.

We need to make sure that whatever is taught is actually learned by a majority of students. Then the debate over what curriculum adds value from a cultural, social, vocational point of view can begin.

One would think that regardless of political stripe, people could come together on this.