Let's hold our own referendum

It's time we held our own referendum.

In watching our own political spectrum evolve over the last few years I've begun to wonder where Bermudians really stand when it comes to our present government. It is quite baffling to me that issues such as a referendum on independence continue to be ignored and avoided by our leadership. Yet still, we as Bermudians stand idly by to watch our democracy evolve into something less than the choice of the people.

I wonder how the leaders of our country can continue on their crusade to decide the issue of independence via an election rather then a referendum, this despite 49% of the electorate, some 14,000 individuals, clearly demonstrating that we as a people want a referendum. It is astounding in comparison to other nations who require only about a 5% public sanction to solicit a referendum. Yet with nearly half the electorate behind the motion we continue to be ignored. Has our government become blind to the wishes of our people and ultimately do they represent the voice of our island?

I chose the topic of a referendum on independence as my first article because this clearly is the issue of greatest importance. We each have our own views, yet to be told we are to decide our fate only by election is like being told that we only have the voice they want us to have. We are to group all issues into one category to be decided together with an all or nothing resolve. Our government chooses to ignore the voice of the common Bermudian, instead lumping all issues under one single banner with perhaps the only goal being to keep our people divided and disillusioned.

Perhaps it is time we do to “our” leadership that which they do to us, that we as a people band together to show our government that they too can be marginalised. We can express our own voice independent of the involvement of our government. If our leadership deems that we should not be involved in the decision for a referendum then ultimately could they not also be removed from the process of holding one? Certainly it is not up to our government to dictate to us what is to be our own fate and decide for us which issues are up for debate. To tell us those which are not and what is to be the mode and nature of the debate. Surely they cannot stop us from gathering together to organize our own referendum to express our own will and our own desires.

It would come as no surprise to me that our government would continue to ignore us as they have each and every signatory of the Bermudians for Referendum initiative. Surely they cannot ignore the result, for to do so shows that they do not speak for the Bermudian people and if they don't speak for the people then how can they be our government?

Indeed what is their purpose other then to be the voice of the people, to do our will and implement due process of what we as a society and as individuals wish for ourselves?

Whether our decision on independence results in a yes or a no is truly not the issue. More to the point, it is our right to a choice which is the right of every citizen of a democratic state. Or perhaps it is not a democracy in which we reside after all.

I for one believe it's time we held our own referendum.

Comments

[bw&p?? on 14.12.05 at 08:25]

Excellent idea Denis, and well presented too. If there is anything I can do to further this initiative, please ask.

[Tony B on 14.12.05 at 08:36]

I totally agree too.....

I tell you this St. Kitts club Cabinet and BBC comrades are capable of just declaring independence.

Just like the Real Estate decree when we all found out in the middle of the day that as of 5 pm no Bermudian could sell ANY real estate to a non-Bermudian.

This is DICTATORSHIP in action.

The manhandling of Jim Butterfield at the cement factory was dictatorial.

Do not be surprised if P and his "comrades" declare INDEPENDENCE....

To heck with the referendum, to hell with England....And if any of you people get out of line P will have the COLONEL commanding the regiment to quell any protests.....

BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY......that is their motto.

They are the Government and they could say....we have decided what is in the best inetersts of Bermudians.....

There is no way we can allow the Scott regime to hijack this country.

Have you noticed how P with his hench man Burch has jammed Ewart Brown over Morgan's Point?
Have you noticed how this unelected racist has been allowed so much power ?

Scary times in Bermuda.

[cdninbermuda on 14.12.05 at 08:49]

Tony B, absolutely, these are very scary times. As an ex-pat here, I cannot believe the things that go on here with this government. "P" is a racist, and I have no respect at all for him, which seems to be the general consensus. Bermudians need to stand up and do something!

[Tony B on 14.12.05 at 08:53]

Amen Brother.....We need to start an avalanche that will sweep those critters out to sea....

Nothing personal....but this Government have divided Bermuda to a level never ever seen before in out history.

This issue and topic should be the most discussed topic ever on LIMEY....and if Bermudians have a pulse and the balls to speak out...then speak out here and now...and then lets get this Independent Referendum happening in early 2006

[Enigma on 14.12.05 at 08:55]

A very valid post David but you seem to have forgotten the words of your namesake who summarised the attitude of the PLP government to all who dare to waver from their doctrinal propaganda - "we don't care what you think".
The simple and obvious truth is 'they don't care' and sadly they have a core following that blindly adhers to the daily drivel they inflict upon us. Sadly, we as Bermudians are so comfortable and complacent for the most part that we chose to ignore the excesses that are being committed on an almost daily basis.

As for democracy - our country is being run by a non-elected premier and one of the largest ministries is controlled by one of the least popular men in the country who failed to be elected at the polls - so what's your problem?

The PLP runs on the purest Orwellian principle that "all animals are equal but some are more equal than others"

Oh, and of course if all other smokescreen tactics fail, blame it on what the UBP did 10, 20 or 30 years ago and never forget to play the race card at every available opportunity.

The ministers are drunk on power and totally consumed with their own self importance. They do not feel they are answerable to anyone. If you don't believe me, try calling or emailing one of them! Bermuda is in a very sorry state and sadly we really only have ourselves to blame because we are letting them get away with it.

[silencedogood on 14.12.05 at 08:58]

In order to be effective it has to be seen as legitimate. You'd need a higher than normal turnout that represented the demographics of the island.

I think the pro-independence crowd would probably stay home so they could call the referendum a flop. Interestingly this is the same problem in Iraq right now.

Perhaps a more realistic idea would be to pressure the government, or a later government since it's unlikely to succeed under this one, to institute legislation where the public can mandate a referendum on a particular subject if they get the signatures of a certain % of registered voters. California I think has this.

Compromise could be had on whether it took place at a general election or as a stand-alone vote 6 months after the motion to allow debate.

Carefull though--that type of thing is a double edged sword and could be used to push through some crappy laws against minority positions. I doubt the courts would jump at the chance to overturn laws either. Requiring a super-majority (i.e. 2/3 vote of registered voters or of those who voted with a certain % turnout) might solve this.

[Tony B on 14.12.05 at 09:00]

Enigma...well said...Tim Hodgson and others have written extensively about the malaise of the Bermudian living in paradise, whose rose colored tinted glasses have made many oblivious to the raping of Bermuda by the few in power. Don't worry when they get shaken out of this foggy state they will hurl these people out of power with a force never seen before at the ballot box (hopefully) or by (to use a catch phrase of the BBC) throw them out by "ANY MEANS NECESSARY"!

[wklc on 14.12.05 at 09:18]

Tony B

For Independence to be granted to Bermuda, the UK has to give its ok...and they have to see that we have had either a referendum or general election, and they have to be satisfied that it is the will of the people. The Premier and the Government cannot and will not just up and go independent on its own accord.
It is fine to disagree on the issue of independence and the means to achieving it or not achieving it, however to blatantly lie and scare people into thinking one way or the other is careless of you and immature.
For someone who apparently is passionate about Bermuda and the issues facing it, you need to realize that your ideas get lost in translation. Your tyrades and abusive language totally nullifies whatever credibility might exist in your writing. You really sound like someone that is right on the edge of cracking.

[Two Cents on 14.12.05 at 09:27]

As those in power get richer & richer off the tax payers dollar, living high on the hog off of our hard earned money, and take way too mnay trips around the world on meaningless junkets, it becomes blatently obvious that now is the time to do something drastic before it's too late.

I usually find Tony B a bit too radical for my tastes but in this case he's spot on, we need to stand up for what's ours, Bermuda BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY

[b,w&p?? on 14.12.05 at 09:39]

wklc - funny, my wife said the same thing to me about me this morning - my response was 'speak to be heard' - this government shows no repsect to those who speak rationally and with rhyme or reason - it's time to get egrant and speak in terms they understand.

[sandgrownan on 14.12.05 at 09:45]

It seems we all, well most of us, agree that we need to get rid of these buggers before it's too late.
Does anyone have a complete list of every fuck up, faux pas, brainless utterence, example of complete incomepetence, offensive comment and so on since 1998? I think those that are currently sitting on the fence might be swayed when presented with evidence of the PLP's self serving and useless record.

[Tony B on 14.12.05 at 09:46]

WKLC...
Bermuda is on the edge of cracking pal ..not moi...

Have you ever heard the word "Coup".

Hey if these guys are going to play by the rules than state so categorically ?
Also Cabinet secrecy has got to be turned around into full openess and sharing. This is not the case now. How can it be when there is such a split for power going on, that secrets are kept from their own people within Cabinet.

Anyway....a coup will of course ruin Bermuda so maybe that is a little extreme....but remember power has done strange things to people and we certainly have strange people in power !

[wklc on 14.12.05 at 09:55]

Tony B
Just to clarify I wasn't necessarily condemning your remarks, or supporting them. I just feel that sometimes whatever point you may be trying to make is totally lost because of the exaggerated language. It is one thing to be passionate, but sometimes one can be too passionate and perhaps lose perspective.

[b,w&p?? on 14.12.05 at 09:58]

Lets start to talk in terms of the logistics for putting this 'Referendum for and by the People' in motion. How can it be done? When can it be done? Who is up to the task of spearheading it? Where do I sign up to help? Maybe Denis has all these answers...maybe we can discuss this further over drinks on Tuesday - as sandgrown says, most of us agree that we need to be rid of these buggers before it's too late but I'm weary of talking, lets translate this passion rescuing this island from it's oppressors into action.

[SmokingGun on 14.12.05 at 10:03]

Don't worry TB, there's only one type of Coupe you'll see in Bermuda.
And they're big, black and beautiful with GP written all over them....
Oh yeah and apparently they pretty much don't care about anyone else on the road or such trivial things as stop signs.

[Tony B on 14.12.05 at 10:03]

Style & Substance we can agree...can be subjective.
In your face is what gets noticed. The General Strike was in our face coupled with violence and intimidation.
I have never advocated violence and we can win this battle for Bermuda by waking the masses who will march, vote and do what is necessary to bring bermuda together against this racist regime that perpetuates the negativity and deepening divide in Bermuda.

Lets hope the people of Bermuda do what is best for all of us and throw this divisive, we're gonna pay you back for all the sins of histroy mob out on their ear.

Funny how Germany recovered after Adolf Hitler isn't it....????

[Uncle Elvis on 14.12.05 at 10:51]

"Funny how Germany recovered after Adolf Hitler isn't it....????"

Teebs, you gotta pull back on THAT stuff. You getting dangerously close to where the PLP went in 1998, likening the UBP and whites to Nazis.
I dig what your saying and agree that something has to be done... REAL soon!... but stooping to their level doesn't help.

[silencedogood on 14.12.05 at 10:52]

Tony B,

You comments about coups and comparisons of P to hitler aren't doing you any justice. They make you sound like a whacko. Maybe it's dramatic effect but if not I wouldn't want to live in your bermuda any more than Ewart Brown's bermuda.

I often find myself embarrased to agree with you because of the way you state your case. I imagine there are many on the other end of the spectrum who feel that way about P.

I wouldn't say anything, but you have moments of clarity where a lot of good ideas come out. Come back from the fringe so your ideas can be put to work.

[wklc on 14.12.05 at 10:53]

All this talk of a modern day coup etc, if you really want international business to leave, start acting radically. Then it wouldn't be the government's fault, it would be your own.
Many are caught up in this disbelief that the Premier and PLP government can force us independent. Not gonna happen. I am a PLP supporter, however sometimes I wish they will back off the independence push a bit, and sort out the other issues. I feel that by making headway in these areas, people will then have more confidence in them, and thus potentially have more confidence in their ability to lead us towards sovereignty.

[wklc on 14.12.05 at 11:00]

One comment i have, and this it not directed at anyone or meant to insult the intelligence of those who signed the petition for a referendum, but some people really did not know what they were signing.
I was at the ATM in Windsor Garden on saturday and saw as people walked through and were asked by members of the committee to sign here. And they just signed it. Some of them didn't read it at all before they signed. This is not entirely the organizers fault, as the signers should know what they are signing, however, my point, is that u shouldn't assume that all signatures show total support for a referendum.

[sandgrownan on 14.12.05 at 11:03]

We need a full page ad in The Gazette & The Sun detailing every single last item of PLP bull that we've been forced to witness over the last few years.
Remind the electorate of what the PLP has been doing. Force it down their throats so that there can be no confusion at how utterly corrupt, useless and downright offensive these people are.
Point out the failed projects, the pocket lining, the trips, the comments, everything.

[wklc on 14.12.05 at 11:08]

Can you also take an ad out detailing all the UBP BS that was done over 400 years? Just to give equal opportunity!

[loki on 14.12.05 at 11:10]

"All this talk of a modern day coup etc, if you really want international business to leave, start acting radically."

I hear what you're saying, but this government is acting radically enough to be scaring international business away. Bermuda's dirty little secret right now is that there are a number of companies that are either leaving Bermuda for the Caymans, Bahamas and Barbados, or are in the process of incorporating companies in those jurisdictions for the purpose of putting a Plan B in place in case this government (a) gets in at the next election; and (b) shows signs of continuing along its present course. The actions of this government have not gone unnoticed in the international business community and the general feeling is that, for reasons best known to itself, the government could care less about international business and is fully prepared to cut off its nose to spite its face. In the past three months, I know of five exempt companies that have moved to either the Caymans, Bahamas or Barbados and three companies that are in the process of incorporating affiliates in one of those jurisdictions. In each case, the reason cited to me was the behaviour of the current government and a general feeling of government mismanagement. Scary times, indeed......

We do need to start getting vocal and being radical in our discussions and actions regarding this current government, because Bermuda is headed down a dark, dangerous path if things continue this way. The government neither cares about, nor listens to the electorate, so we need to start making them listen.

[Monsignor Treeb Lopez on 14.12.05 at 11:15]

well said Loki

if there's a hedge fund here in 3 years time I'll be truly astonished as well...

Mgr.

[sandgrownan on 14.12.05 at 11:21]

wklc - with respect, that is not at all relevant.

[b,w&p?? on 14.12.05 at 11:25]

wkcl- the UBP is not in power. we are here to judge the PLP by it's actions over the past 7 years because it IS in power and shows no signs of change. I judged the (theoretical)face of the UBP as it was in 1998 and I will judge the face of the PLP as it is today. This is all about good governance not about retribution.

[H Reardon on 14.12.05 at 11:27]

Loki,

Watch Malta. All the major local (re)insurance companies have set up an office in Malta over the last 2 years.

[observor on 14.12.05 at 11:29]

wklc

Read a history book ... pleeeaase.

[loki on 14.12.05 at 11:32]

"Loki,

Watch Malta. All the major local (re)insurance companies have set up an office in Malta over the last 2 years."

And the sad thing is that whilst we are pointing this stuff out - through first-hand accounts, no less - we will likely be accused of scaremongering. It's a shame that people can't see what's going on right before their very eyes, really. I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but I think that Bermuda is really going to have to start hurting very badly indeed (devaluation of the BD$ dollar? Monsignor, your views on that would be appreciated) before the average Bermudian will see what this government is doing to the island and its economy and kick it to the curb.

[wklc on 14.12.05 at 11:33]

observor,

i am very well versed in my history of bermuda and of the world in general...i also am well aware of the successes and failures of both government administrations...

so what exactly do u wish me to read...pleeeeaaase tell me.

[Phil on 14.12.05 at 11:34]

This thread's showing signs of degenerating into another anti-PLP bitchfest already. It might be more interesting to discuss the merits and practicalities of Denis' proposal.

[Denis Pitcher on 14.12.05 at 11:35]

Thank you all for your support and your comments.

Certainly my resolve is to bring some resolution to the ongoing conflicts and division that plauge our pleasant island.

As part of this I have established a few websites to support our cause:

In terms of tracking our government and their inherent progress I have established a wiki for all to contribute to on nearly any topic.

This can be viewed at:

http://www.bermudawiki.com

You can also note I have taken steps to establish a page you can visit to follow the progress of this very issue at:

http://www.bermudawiki.com/index.php?title=Independance_Referendum

I have also established an open forum dedicated to the freedom of speech and expression of all Bermudians.

You can contribute and discuss your opinions here:

http://forums.bermudawiki.com

If you so feel you have a voice you would like to share with the Bermuda people. You can establish your own limey like blog by writing me at denis@bermudawiki.com

You can also view others who have blogs at:

http://blogs.bermudawiki.com

Once again, I thank you all for your support and welcome any further contribution in establishing our voice as a people in our democratic society.

[Denis Pitcher on 14.12.05 at 11:40]

I would like to follow up on Limey's comment that I would most appreciate this thread be dedicated to discussing the merits of my idea and how we can go about achieving it.

This idea is one dedicated to the people of Bermuda and our decision on independance both for and against.

Discussion on the PLP and their ability to lead our government will happily be accepted via the Bermudawiki forum I posted above, but should be remain absent from this column.

I will also accept commentary on the UBP and their actions as the official opposition.

I personally have no interest in taking sides and am only dedicated to bettering our island and hopefully establishing a future in Bermuda to look forward to.

[Tony B on 14.12.05 at 11:41]

OK Uncle Elvis...and Silencedogood....

My reference to Germany and Hitler is simply to show that after 6 million jews perished in the halocaust because of Adolf and his regime, the world did not hold it against German people. I do not have a chip on my shoulder about Germans. BUT the PLP will tell you a vote for the UBP is a vote back on the plantation. They cannot leave the past alone. The want retribution for stuff...none of us have anything to do with.

Yes we must not forget the past. We even apologize for people we did not know but because they were white we offer to apologize. But NO that is not good enough for the PLP racists (the ones that are in power, who have the power that have shown themselves to be racist - of course not all PLP followers are but most of the ones in power sure have proven themselves to be)

Yes I may get edgy on my points...."come back from the fringes Tony" I am told.

I tell you I am angry at seeing bermuda descend to levels I never thought imaginable.

I have seen the destruction of Tourism, and the blantant denial that goes on, even as I type, by those that tell me "Watch Tourism Grow" - Ewart.

Bermuda needs electric shock treatment, emergency surgery, we need Trump, Iacocca style management of our island if we are ever to see Tourism come back.

Tourism and its business should not be about politics. It is this nasty 2 party system and its bickering and entrenched positions that have killed the Golden Age of Bermuda Tourism.

International Business sucks money in the Billions based on the worlds disasters. People here are getting rich off 911 and Katrina - which is OK but nearly half of Bermuda depends on our other industry and it is in a treminal condition.

The fact we now have a doctor Ewart Brown, who should behave like one when the patient is sick makes me angry as he should be struck off as a doctor as he is not Intensive Surgery performing critical remedies. What he is doing is playing politics and in his camp that is a dirty business as the PLP politics are mired with the divisive split that see an unelected Premier fighting off Brown at every turn.

As soon as we get over this insane Independence issue and back to taking care of Bermuda and Bermudians the sooner a lot of us will return to a sense of well being and sanity.

Just as Bill Clinton hired a Republican to be Defense Secretary a wise man would invite Ewart and Kim Swan to set up a Tourism Authority that is given a mandate to do whatever it takes to revive Bermuda Tourism...including casinos, redevelopment of Morgan's Point as a world class resort etc.

The politics of Bermuda moves at a snails pace. The world of business moves at a speed that demands planning instant decisions by CEO's.

If International Business was run by the DOT it wouldn't be here.....

That is the truth.

Now back to the Referendum.....

[sandgrownan on 14.12.05 at 11:48]

I agree this shouldn't just be an anti-PLP Government bitch fest, however, if you are to mobilise the masses, you need to remind the masses of the failings of this government. The Bermudian electorate have short memories.

[Adjustah on 14.12.05 at 11:54]

I don't refresh for an hour and I come back in the middle of the Gunpowder Plot. I wonder how many members of Special Branch will be at the LIB drinks on the 20th, then?

"Talk directly into the lapel, please..."

[silencedogood on 14.12.05 at 11:54]

Thanks Tony--that's the clarity I was talking about.

It's good you are pissed off. I am too, but we have to be careful not to sink to the levels of those we are criticizing.

[Sir George Somers on 14.12.05 at 12:07]

Can you also take an ad out detailing all the UBP BS that was done over 400 years? Just to give equal opportunity!

Posted by wklc on 14.12.05 at 11:08

Just to clarify. I nor any of my fellow men were part of any party, let alone the so called UBP. If I were it would have been called the USIP, I can assure you of that.

[SRP on 14.12.05 at 12:21]

There are some serious zealots on this site and if you feel as strongly as you do against this whole independence issue...the solution to me is SIMPLE. In the next election vote the current government out...who CARES if there is a referendum...if it's independence by referendum that you want then GET what you want but getting rid of the goverment that is not giving you what you want. You will get the chance to do so soon enough. The country CANNOT go independent without the approval of the UK and that comes with proof that it is what the people of the country want. So stop bitching and whining already. GEESE.

[Enigma on 14.12.05 at 12:25]

"Oh, and of course if all other smokescreen tactics fail, blame it on what the UBP did 10, 20 or 30 years ago and never forget to play the race card at every available opportunity."

Posted by Enigma on 14.12.05 at 08:55

"Can you also take an ad out detailing all the UBP BS that was done over 400 years? Just to give equal opportunity!"

Posted by wklc on 14.12.05 at 11:08

Congratulations wklc! It took you just over 2 hours to do exactly as I predicted. Any minute now you should be ready to throw in your 'weapon of last resort' which is of course the 'race card.'
You just don't seem to understand the fundamental fact that the reason the UBP are no longer in power is because people like me were sick and tired of their behaviour over the years so we kicked them out of power. This does not give the PLP a justification to do the same thing unless they want to suffer the same fate.

We need to deal with the here and now and I personally think a full page ad listing the lies, corruption, abuses of power etc that have been perpetrated by our current government since 1998 would be a very useful wake up call to many of us complacent Bermudians. Let me be the first to offer a $50 contribution toward the cost of putting together such an informative piece of public education.

[Denis Pitcher on 14.12.05 at 12:32]

SRP,

The point is that I might actually want to vote for the PLP based upon their approach to the issues yet if I were against independance they would be forcing me to vote for the UBP.

The problem with our present political system is that it is not focused on the issues that face Bermuda and is more focused on the issues of our past.

[Tony B on 14.12.05 at 12:42]

Enigma....I'll double that....Ok lets play crown and anchor...a couple of more doubles and we are there !

[blovator on 14.12.05 at 13:06]

Excellent idea Mr. Pitcher. If some portion of the voting population boycott's it, your idea still has credibility because it will represent a percentage of the population which is still a palpable political statement by the public.

It also represents people taking responsibility from government - always a good thing.

As for the fulminating Tony B. and his rude emails - I would say he merely distracts from any real association with the issues.

[blovator on 14.12.05 at 13:33]

Sorry to Tony B, and good point Mr. Pitcher

What makes me scream when I hear Bermudians talk about coups and dictatorships is the utterly distracting nature of the proposittion. Bermuda doesn't ever come close to a dictatorship and never will. The only oppressing that goes on in Bermuda is by ordinary Bermudians. They are to blame for their government and it is ordinary Bermudians that have made the lives of their countrymen miserable. In matters of oppression or negligence or indifference, the government follows the public voice or it is isolated ( like the present PLP government). Government has never been an effective force of its own in Bermuda. On this island you have to lead from behind.

A dictatorship would last 37 seconds.

Which is why Mr. Pitcher's idea is so sound.

[b,w&p?? on 14.12.05 at 13:33]

Denis - put me down for $50 towards the full page ad - do you think 1 page is enough? - perhaps if you use a size 6 font stick to bullet points!!

On the subject of the referendum, I think as you suggest, that we should at least try to seek assistance and/or recognition from the UN on this matter, if for nothing else, to add to it's credability and give it some international recognition. I know a good lawyer who might be willing to help draft a letter to them in the new year but the contents of an appeal to the UN needs to be carefully though out. (ie. a strong case for bad governance, evidence of ignoring the wishes of the people and evidence of racial attitudes must be included - neither is hard to find).
Date: This needs to be established so that there is a set goal to aim for - I suggest a time for when students are home from abroad - after all it's their future on the line as well.
Polling Stations: People in each neighbourhood should contact their local community club and churches. I'll do that this week.
initiative slogan: "Right Here, Right Now"

[wklc on 14.12.05 at 13:40]

My view is that regardless of the perceived failures that the PLP might have, the UBP has had many as well, and the present UBP is in no better position to govern this island. They can criticize and offer alternatives, but I guarantee that if they were voted in power, they would be the same old New UBP. I agree that there is a portion of society that will never vote UBP due to their performance of the past. Just like there are diehard UBPers that will never vote PLP, and will never give credit to anything done by the PLP. Maybe we do need more in society to vote on the merits of each election, and the platforms that exist. But that is hard to do, when the behaviors and ideologies that were/are in force in bermuda are largely remnants of the 400 years of UBP rule.
With regard to you all having your own referendum, I doubt it will make a difference one way or the other. Basically the 14000 signatures that are on the petition are not for a referendum, but I venture to say they are against independence (at least those signed by people who knew exactly what they were signing). What will your referendum accomplish? The polls have already stated that 66% are against, and 16% for. So basically you will have wasted your energy to only come up with the same result.
You all call the government dictatorial but when they ask for consultation you don't show up, or you say they cannot make a decision. Its a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Some of you are so blinded by your hatred for the government, that you cannot see the forest for the trees.
If the government tomorrow said there would be a referendum on independence there would be no positive comments that the government had decided to listen. There would be comments saying "Its about time". And this is because some of you are so rooted in negativity that you cannot even force yourself to see any positive in a given situation.

[observor on 14.12.05 at 13:46]

wklc

Please stop repeating your consistent, irresponsible and incorrect clamoring regarding "... 400 years of UBP rule." All it does is nullify any possible credibility you may gain from reasonable and potentially valid commentary.

[blovator on 14.12.05 at 13:58]

b,w&p??

Good ideas. I imagine there would just have to be a public notice to the UN and of course the Overseas Territories Office in London. Then there must be some international standard for such things. The body that set those standards could be notified and invited to stipulate practices and standards.

Then basically no one could say you weren't playing by the rules.

[blovator on 14.12.05 at 14:01]

wklc: Just like there are diehard UBPers that will never vote PLP, and will never give credit to anything done by the PLP.

Uh, I love those fast ferries. I am no UBP fan so could you just lemme know what the PLP has done? Besides the ferries because they have been sitting in the house for a long time now and have not seen a lot get done.

Another reason why Mr. Pitcher's idea makes sense.

[wklc on 14.12.05 at 14:02]

Observor,
In my opinion it reiterates my position, and in my opinion, u can ignore the post if it bothers you so much, just as you ignore other stuff selectively.