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The young and the worthless

What's wrong with this picture?

"Ten-year jail terms have been handed down to three men convicted of trying to murder a man when violence erupted at Wellington Oval...

[The defendants] waved to friends and relatives who packed the public gallery, and were loudly cheered as they left court and their prison van drove away."

"Loudly cheered"? Why are these people apparently hailed as heroes by their families instead of being disowned?

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Has any country in history had policy of withdrawing citizenship to natural borb citizens, i think Bermuda would be a much better place if we could just unbermudianize people, deport them and never let them back in.

And while i make this suggestion in jest, wouldn't want a policy like that, nor would i support one (i think), it's my reaction when i read the story. aren't we all shamed?

I read that this afternoon and was just speechless. Attempted murder, the most gruesome kind of violence, and they treat them like heroes? Sick.

I agree that this is sick, but it is common across the board.

Two words - Martha Stewart

This is no different from high profile white collar criminals or celebrities who beat a court case. Friends of the guilty support them no matter how guilty. Even if innocent on a technicality, these people get support. Some people get convicted, do time and then get awarded prime time tv shows. These fools won't get a tv show, but will be held to a different standard than the Martha Stewart's though.

I hear you, but I don't agree. If Martha Stewart had been convicted of a brutal murder, stabbing or machete attack (actually, that's a really strange image, there) she would be rightfully vilified. Martha Stewart got support, and has been able to restablish herself, because the vast majority of people think that what she did wasn't a particularly big deal and that she was made an example of.

I do not like making excuses for people and I've never been in a situation similar to that of Wellington Oval.

But if I was the one being cheered as I went off to serve my time, just the fact that I knew there were people outside who still loved me despite my actions would probably drive me more to do good than if they had disowned me.

But that's how I would approach it and not everyone is me. Those guys have a lot of time to do some serious thinking... they have the opportunity to make something good of this situation. But if their families are going to go as far as disowning them, then that will only serve to make them even more disenfranchised and difficult to make a turnaround. If I put myself in that situation, I would only hope that my family would stand by my side and try to encourage me to do better with myself.

Limey, hypothetically speaking...if that was your brother (not sure if you have one, but if you did) do you honestly think you would disown him? I guess it would come down to the decision as to whether they are going to try and make a positive out of a negative... do you believe in people wanting to redeem themselves?

Sergio

Supporting your family is one thing. Cheering them when they've just been convicted of attempted murder is quite another.

Even if I did not disown a family member in their position, I would be so utterly ashamed of and horrified by what they had done that cheering would be the furthest thing from my mind.

How can you disown naturally born citizens. If you deport your own, who can you expect to take them, or even want them. Stupid thing to say. Lets be honest, everyone cheered because the judge was spineless and din't give out maximum sentences. Same problem in UK, if only I took a different career course I'd lock the little bastards up for life!

Wuffless.

I have to agree: there's a world of difference between supporting friends/family/children and carrying out cheering displays of defiance on the steps of Supreme Court.And we wonder how these kids turn out like this? What's wrong with these people?

Bermudians have traditionally accepted this type of behaviour as long as I can remember.

It is commonplace when drug dealers are convicted and beat the charges etc.

Some even bring champagne in anticipation !

Even when Rebecca Middleton was raped and tortured for many hours her body mutilated and left to die by the roadside there was a crowd of cheering supporters when the accused walked free.

Bermudians were not particularly upset and that is why we see this behaviour repeated regularly, we are apathetic and condone anything that makes us feel uncomfortable perhaps, but condone it we do to our great shame.

"I hear you, but I don't agree. If Martha Stewart had been convicted of a brutal murder, stabbing or machete attack (actually, that's a really strange image, there) she would be rightfully vilified."

You are missing the point. If Martha had done a crime but got off on a technicality, she would have been cheered on. She was convicted of corporate fraud and became more popular. She was given a TV show after doing time! Enron executives, no matter how many billions they might have destroyed, will be accepted into society long before your common shoplifter. Now you can argue that attempted murder is far worse a crime than the Enron scandal if you like, but the point is that this sick support for people who beat the system is not a phenomenon only held by street thugs.

Bill Cook - You think you could have a bit more respect for Bermudians? Do you honestly think that when Gotti was locked up his colleagues were thrilled that justice had been served? What about Dennis Kozlowski? You think his family and business friends thought that he was scum? What about support for Blair and Bush? Are they murderers who got away with it too? Would they be rejected on arrival, or would we roll out the red carpet like every other country? Open your eyes. This isn't just a Bermudian thing.

3rd Person - there is nothing inherently wrong about friends and family supporting people who have been convicted. Just because someone has done something wrong, doesn't mean that they should be permanently cast out of their social circle. As I stated above:

"there's a world of difference between supporting friends/family/children and carrying out cheering displays of defiance on the steps of Supreme Court."

Martha's a pretty bad example, actually, as the cheers of support she received had more to do with the fact that what she was actually convicted of (which was NOT corporate fraud) was pretty minor in most people's eyes and a lot of people, myself included, felt that she shouldn't have been put on trial at all.

You didn't see cheering crowds for Ken Lay, and I'll bet you that you won't see them for Conrad Black, either. Again, it's not a question of people being supportive, it's the ugly displays of defiance and implicit encouragement of thuggery that we're dealing with. Oh, and I wouldn't argue that white collar crime is any less serious than street crime, either.

Supporting your family is one thing. Cheering for them after they get convicted is another thing. But to me, disowning family is quite another.

My question to you is, why do you think they were cheering? Was it because they got a wonderful attempted murder conviction? Because they got 10 years in prison? Because they're gonna stick by their side thru good times and bad?

I do not know the answer to that question. And I'm assuming neither do you because chances are you're not going to go and ask. Wouldn't it be better to find out the answer before you pass judgment on these people?

And as for disowning family, that just says a little about you and your loyalties. I can understand you being ashamed, but I do not think I could ever disown the people who have helped shape me to be who I am.

3RD Person,

No I will not have more respect for anyone who cheers those who got away with one of the most horrendous murders in our recent history of murders, least of all my fellow Bermudians.

If you had been paying attention to this forum, or even had taken the time to read my comments, before you engaged your mouth, you would have been cogniscent of my many letters to the editor and in LIB regarding Bush and Blair and Dennis Kozlowski and Enron etc. AND Martha Stewart on talk radio, you would not appear so ill informed.

You appear to be an apologist for degrading and disgraceful behaviour, which is such a prevailing attitude by so many here in Bermuda,the behaviour of others in other countries, does not excuse our behaviour here.

As long as people disregard the respect for human life, ANY LIFE, we will continue on the downward spiral we are on in my opinion.

Loki,

I'm trying to point out that the cheering displays of support on the steps of Supreme Court are not altogether different from Martha being given a TV show after doing time. That too is a public display of defiance. We live in a mentally sick world as evidenced by what happened here in this court case, as well as with numerous others around the world. This isn't just Bermuda, my friend, we live in the Hilton Era and it is insane.

"No I will not have more respect for anyone who cheers those who got away with one of the most horrendous murders in our recent history of murders, least of all my fellow Bermudians"

I'm not at all an apologist - I think those people are sick, just like the sick people who support the other people named. My point is that you should separate the "Bermudian" from your comment. You degrade us when you make it sound like this is a Bermudian thing. The world has lost its bearings and there is far greater evidence of it than what happened in this case.

3rd Person,

I am a Bermudian, this is my home,I live here,
this is my priority, as I cannot change the worlds behaviour to the extent I can try to here.

By trying to focus attention on every other problem in other parts of the world just gives the impression of refusing to acknowledge our degrading behaviour as Bermudians right here on our doorstep.

As long as Bermudians indulge in this disgusting behaviour it is a BERMUDIAN THING.

Face it accept it or CHANGE IT.

Like eating bread is a Bermudian thing?

From the DENIAL BAKERY ?

I find many of the comments here show how over the years the attitude toward what is accepted as being "right & wrong" has changed in Bermuda. No, Bermudians have not always accepted this type of behaviour. Thirty years ago the parents of these thugs would have turned them into the police. Friends and family would have supported them with love but would have distanced themselves from the crime. In Bermuda, family respect including respect for the law and pride were the most important values.

Bermuda had a Police force that residents respected, a respectable justice system and lengthy prison terms were served in the UK. It was not a black or white system, it was a Bermudian system. None of these apply today.

As long as the majority of Bermudians accept today's behaviour and don't demand changes, it will only get worse.

Um.. regarding Martha Stewart:
While I see your point, it's kind of made moot by the words "did her time". She did wrong and was punished. Giving her a show after isn't a problem for me. Now, if they had given her a show WHILE she was doing her time, or when she was convicted... THEN I'd have a problem with it.
It's like Mr. Commisiong. It bugs me when people say he shouldn't be allowed to sit on the BIC, be as vocal as he is, etc. because he's a bank robber. The man did his time. He's paid the price of his crime. So did Martha. If you're going to complain about them, make it about the fact that they're assholes, and not about the fact that they've done time.

Now, about these boys. Yeah, it was a bit over the top to say disown them, but cheering for themwhile they're carted away to prison only gives verification to them regarding their behaviour, y'know? It's like the crime wasn't a crime, but an unjust law that they shouldn't have to pay for, in their eyes.

Now, about these boys. Yeah, it was a bit over the top to say disown them, but cheering for themwhile they're carted away to prison only gives verification to them regarding their behaviour, y'know? It's like the crime wasn't a crime, but an unjust law that they shouldn't have to pay for, in their eyes.

Elvis,

Like I said before, we do not know why they were cheering. Maybe they were cheering for the reason you have stated, but maybe they were cheering for another reason...the bottom line is, you don't know.

You're only making an assumption and in all honesty, I can't see where the negative assumption is getting preference over a more positive one.

Bill,

While I completely agree that we as Bermudian's should not dilute the behaviour that is going on here today by excusing it based on what is happening in other countries, you should see where 3rd person is coming from. I think both of you are too busy arguing with one another that you do not see the merits of both sides. Yes, we shouldn't excuse it based on what is happening in other countries.

But I dont think that's what 3rd person is trying to say. I think he is saying that to brand it as a Bermudian thing is simply incorrect. It is not unique and endemic to our island, therefore it is not a Bermudian thing. It's a human thing...that's what he's trying to say.

Those comments were echoed by Charles Richardson, for father-of-two Morris. He pointed to the absence of a father in Morris’ life and his lack of high school diploma.

Hmmmmmm Strange how Lawyer Richardson tries to prove lack of a father or diploma creates people of this sort. I had no father or diploma but I didnt become a THUG. Hmmmmmmm.

I'm with Cook, Bermuda has celebrated bad criminals and btw, mediocre politicians for years. Examples of redemption from crime and excellence in politics have long been ignored. This may happen in other countries as well. That doesn't make it any less a problem.

Because of our isolation and a long standing social division we have developed strange attitudes towards our various social outcasts and reprobates. They take on old ideas and projections, the product of old frustrations, they actually don't really deserve. That doesn't stop them from taking advantage of people projecting onto them virtues and credit they do not have or deserve.

Look at Bermudian funerals. The good decent people in Bermuda have a nice funeral with a good attendance. The iconoclasts, likable eccentrics, the outspoken and vituperative - people always snickered at and not always brought into the social fold during thier lives - get a packed out church at thier funeral and stirring orations by the good and the great.

Criminals who are cheered outside a court should not take the cheering personally. It is not a cheer so much as a long lonely howl of unplacated desire. And its not really about them. It stretches back lie a soughing wind, back through the generations of thier families to the first time we came here and started on making our present troubles.

Ok, Sergio, i'll accept that. But as long as we're making guesses, what would your guess be for "a more positive" reason for cheering? I can't seem to come up with any.

Bus, I agree with you, there. I have a father, but only a GED. I dropped out of one school and flunked out of another and never went to college.

Sergio,

I am not interested in winning arguments I am interested in changing attitudes right here in Bermuda,and solving problems.

By comparing our behaviour to what happens elsewhere does dilute the effect of this disgusting behaviour unfortunately in my opinion,and either delays or prohibits change.

It should be the responsibility of every concerned Bermudian and residents with interests in Bermuda to work towards improving all aspects of our society rather than saying "oh well it happens everywhere "

We have one of the worlds worst waste producing situations so should we say oh well the rest of the world has similar or try to improve ?

When we have corrected our own problems we can afford the luxury of solving other peoples problems.

enuf already!!!!

get constructive!

Bill,

I am not disputing what you are saying. As i stated before "Yes, we shouldn't excuse it based on what is happening in other countries".

All I am saying is that in addition to that, we must also realize that we do not live on this planet alone. We are not the only ones causing these problems and to brand it solely as a Bermudian thing is not completely accurate. It is not just a Bermudian thing. And not all Bermudian's act in that manner. That clarification needs to be made.

I think 3rd person was also trying to point out the hypocrisy that exists... and in order for us to progress and "work towards improving all aspects of our society", we cannot celebrate it when one person commits a criminal act and condemn another when they commit a crime.

The hypocrisy must stop.

Elvis,

As i stated before, perhaps they were cheering in support of their family member who has decided to make a change in their life (i.e. make a positive out of a negative).

This is simply speculation...maybe I'll go around Ord Road when I get back home and ask, rather than guess incorrectly about what they were cheering about.

"...they were cheering in support of their family member who has decided to make a change in their life."

And I quote:
"Miss Clarke said the defendants showed a “total disregard” for community values. “Violence is on the increase, and it must be considered that this was a gang-related attack, for which neither of these defendants have shown remorse, nor have they accepted their role in the attack.”

"The defendants shook their heads and laughed as Mr. Justice Greaves said the “real heroes” in the case were Everest Trott and Kuma Smith, from St. George’s."

Yeah... sounds like they're trying to make a new start.
Come on, Sergio... I'm the one usually accused of being "Happy, Clappy".

Nice quotes...and they do portray the image that they are not going to make a new start. I stand corrected.

However, if I was their family member, I would still be willing to forgive them for their wrongdoings and support them as they go to serve thier sentence. Like I said, maybe there's more to it that you do not know about...

I'm not disputing that, and I'm not saying that, were it my and my family, I wouldn't support and forgive. But the cheering is a little much, no?
Personally, if it were my brother going to prison for 10 years, I'd be in a MUCH different state of mind. Crying, possibly.
Cheering? Probably not.

Well I guess that's where we'll agree to disagree...

Personally, if it were my brother, I would forgive and support him. I would also try to help him understand how he had messed up and be there for him.

I just dont see how you guys would discount a lifetimes worth of memories for a fuckup (albeit a major fuckup). I wouldn't want to be one in your families!

I do agree that cheering may be excessive; however, if the conditions were right, i.e. my family was strong enough to demonstrate that type of support...then I probably would too (sort of a spirit of the moment kinda thing). People dont always do the most logical thing when emotions are running high.

I just want to let everyone know I'm not defending what these guys have done. I'm just stating the fact that disowning a family member probably isn't the most productive solution. I will also say that neither is cheering for them. But disowning them is less effective in my opinion.

Hence the phrase, "... it was a bit over the top to say disown them..."

Also, perhaps my double negative got in the way of communicating. I was saying that I WOULD support and forgive, were it my brother.
Miscommunication, I think.

Oh ok...so we do agree on that

Bill is right to the extent that he limits his condemnation to the people who were doing the cheering.

I am a Bermudian and live close to those guys on trial. I was not cheering at all, except that they will no longer be on the corner being a general nuisance now that they are locked up. Yes, I do recall cheering that fact.

I have no idea what goes through the mind of people, except that there is the argument (that the parents may have accepted) that these guys were responding to violence that was visited on them. It is no excuse, but parents will make themselves believe whatever they want to believe.

The truth with this young man is that he has been cheered at every point in his life that he did wrong. When he assaulted Dr. Bassett at Sandy's at his graduation because they would not let him wear his hair out - people said he was fighting for his religious rights. When he was caught with drugs, people said weed was harmless, and should be legalized. Now that he has graduated to attempted murder, they are pretending that it was provocation. The pattern is both clear, and disturbing.

I have seen these guys involved in violence in the neighbourhood that there are no trials to make sentences in.

His parents cheer because they don't want to accept the monster they have created in their own son.

"His parents cheer because they don't want to accept the monster they have created in their own son."

Jake hits the nail on the head, there. In my relatively short career, I have seen too many parents fight the authorities over their sons' (for it is sons 99% of the time) hideous transgressions with the law, in the face of overwhelming evidence of their sons' guilt. Too many parents are more interested in getting their children out of trouble than ensuring that these same children are raised properly and learn to change their ways.

"The truth with this young man is that he has been cheered at every point in his life that he did wrong. When he assaulted Dr. Bassett at Sandy's at his graduation because they would not let him wear his hair out - people said he was fighting for his religious rights. When he was caught with drugs, people said weed was harmless, and should be legalized. Now that he has graduated to attempted murder, they are pretending that it was provocation. The pattern is both clear, and disturbing."

Jake, is this the same little punk that was pictured on the front page of the RG the day after the Wellington Oval incident, clearly shown leaping through the air with a raised knife? Frankly, I couldn't believe that no one had been able, or had tried, to convince the little bastard to plead guilty.

When he assaulted Dr. Bassett at Sandy's at his graduation
Ahhhhh I thought that was the bugger. Yeah what a graduation into the life of crime huh. To be honest they all should have got the max allowed by law. Whats next? WestGate should have a convertible car so all sentenced criminals can be paraded through town like National Heroe's horns and all.

Once, we had two seperate, fundamentally different societies existing side by side here.
We do again, but it's now:
a) The get a job, get a girlfriend, get married and have kids, support your family, raise your kids the best you know how, be a part of your community and your country, don't break the law except for a little excess drinking at Cup Match and earn the respect of your neighbours and friends.

b) See no future in working, get alongside anybody who'll put out, ignore any resulting kids, take money from anybody in your community who's stupid enough to leave a door unlocked, Law? What Law? You mean White Man's Law? Don't mean nothing to me. I got respect, and lots of it, and anyone doesn't respect me will soon learn or spend time nursing a cut.

That's the bottom line of an interview published in the paper recently. Of course these guys are heroes in their society. It's just not yours.

Solution? None - as far as the society that posters on this site belong to. Education has failed (look at the stats). Employment is easy if you're smart and/or white. Buying a house, of course, is impossible for anybody.

Drugs, Gangs and Street Cred are not just a vaible way of life, to many they're the only realistic option.

You can't lock 'em all up, you can't deport them. you can't shoot them. Learn to live with them or start seriously re-evaluating the values, driving forces and priorities behind the society "we" live in.

Tim has said that the system is flawed, which is true...

and there is also the realization that you can't just write people off. So what can be done to help someone like this?

Maybe they need someone who will show a genuine interest in their positive development. I'm not sure who this person would be...maybe a teacher or social worker. But you can't just abandon and disown them...they will be out again eventually.

That's right; they're nearly all coming back out again. How good are the prison programs in education? There is a direct correlation between quality and number of courses taken and lower recidivism rates. These new prisoners can go in that direction, or maybe the next time they'll just slash the machete clean through somebody's skull.

Reality of life in Bermuda today is we've got our fair share of low-lifes. I have to laugh when I hear some people hide behind the word Bermudian, like we are all so perfect and wonderful like. Yeah right, we've got plenty of warts to hide.

Maybe if the local newspapers and TV stations were not trying so hard to "make" a story all the time we wouldn't have to hear about the people cheering these low-lifes. "Stop the presses, this just in, I've got a picture of someone giving us the finger with Front Page written all over it!!"

USA Today Online has an article about 51 year old Tookie Williams’ execution for the 1979 shotgun murders of four people. Here are a few comments from funeral attendees:

“We all made mistakes.”

“He seemed like a sweet man to me.”

“What can a black man do…in society, to get another chance at life?”

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-12-20-williams_x.htm

I have a lot of trouble with the death penalty, especially when you hold somebody for over 25 years under that cloud. And people can change their lives for the better.

I also think there’s a difference between gang members killing off one another or going out and killing innocent, hard-working people.

Not one of these people talked about the victims.

Consequently, maybe I would almost be surprised if perpetrators of machete/knife attacks in Bermuda were not cheered.

Previously, there was discussion about whether this is “Bermudian,” or a result of exposure to American gang culture.

Is there anybody out there who believes it is safe to expose children and teenagers to heavy graphic violence, and violence against women, etc., and it’s not going to have an effect on developing brains? Parents need to get with it. All these babies being born out of wedlock will have a far more difficult time without fathers. Protect these girls and call the fathers to account.

Seeing where we’ve failed our youth isn’t always easy when they act up. Sometime we may wanna shake them into their senses. Sad but true the generations before and our laws are part to blame in the way we interact with each other. Be that as it is, I agree that at the end of the day each has too own responsibility for their actions. What more can you expect though from the product of maybe four generations of drug culture being allowed to fester and mutate among our citizens. This is interesting because maybe now mainstream Bermuda that’s sheltered away from the street corners, back alleys and road side bushes can see where the mind set is among a large percent of our young.

Bob Herbert of The New York Times writes a strong piece on gangsta culture, which he sees as "cultural suicide among blacks, promoting a values system that embraces murder, drug-dealing, gang membership, misogyny, child abandonment and a sense of self so diseased that it teaches children to view the men in their orbit as niggaz and the women as hoes."

http://select.nytimes.com/2005/12/22/opinion/22herbert.html?hp

"The enthusiastic turnout at Tookie Williams's funeral tells you much of what you need to know about the current state of black leadership in the U.S." Maybe the enthusiastic turnout for the Bermuda machete wielders says the same thing.

Maybe we should nominate Tahir Nesta Bascome for a Nobel Peace prize ala Tookie Williams?

I know I'll take heat from the "Sweden-o-philes" but seriously...when the guy is walking out giving a defiant fist salute after being convicted and people cheer its because of ignorance, not support. Ridiculous to argue otherwise. I'm not surprised some argued for it though.

If society continues on this path of accepting all behavior in the hopes of rehabilitating through cuddly, touchy feely garbage then expect more of the same.

We can and should attempt to solve the root problems, but we still have to deal with the broken individuals that exist and that can't be done through soft methods.

Likewise, education programs, rehab programs, etc. are a good idea, but they have to be made a privilege not a right. The prisoner should have no rights until they earn them back through good behavior and a demonstrated will to improve their situation.

Prison needs to be a stark wake-up call showing clearly that life can either be extremely hard in jail or if you make good choices and live by society's laws alot of good will come out of it.

If the media just started to say no to these clowns then it would be a good start. Stop publishing their pictures and take the high road.

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