Breeding for Bermuda

Ed Ball, general secretary of the Bermuda Public Services Union, is worried about Bermuda's ageing population. He's wondering whether Bermudian women will need to be asked to have more than one child in order to reverse the trend.

For God's sake, no-one mention this to my wife.

Comments

[Tim Taylor on 10.01.06 at 19:18]

I want some of whatever Ed's drinking.
There are so many people on this rock that the only ones able to find affordable housing are the cockroaches (they live under my fridge and snigger every time I mention the back rent due), and he wants MORE people?
Ed, Baby, get a life. Get one, not engender any more.

[Cancundreaming on 10.01.06 at 19:22]

Bah! Was my first thought when i saw this, my initial reaction was "That's silly, Bermudian women need to start having less children!"

But that's not true either, what i think i meant by it is that there is a serious problem of Bermudians having children they cannot support.. I think that's a far bigger problem and would welcome initiatives to tackle this problem that affects everyone. From the government subsidizing contraceptives and ensuring that it’s available to anyone regardless of financial status or age, mandatory sexual education in all schools(which may already be the case, I'm not sure), to education initiatives targeted to adults to strengthen the children support system...

[Full Fullish on 10.01.06 at 19:43]

Too late, I saw her reading the paper today all the while heading towards RayWans.....You're doomed mate, but welcome to the club at least! :)

[tilti on 10.01.06 at 19:46]

Limey, there are several problems with Ed Ball's statement. The first, is that you have misquoted him by saying that he wants women to have more children. What he actually said was that women should 'raise more children.' Undoubtedly he sees the two as the same, but they are not. He needs to get with the picture and realize that men can raise children too and Bermuda would be a better place if this happened more often.

Secondly, he is using other countris and Japan as the jumping point. There are differences, Japan is slowing down because of a work for life policy implemented 30 years ago, as a result 80 year old men are being paid for doing nothing. Bermuda doesn't have the same legacy costs; everybody knows how Bermuda politics has abandoned old people.

Secondly all other countries that are looking to raise their population provide serious incentives in the forms of tax cuts, subsidies and day care. He isn't really touching on any of this.

The real solution which the rest of the Western world is taking is to increase productivity among its workers, bring in technology and subsidize re-education programs so that workers can remain competitive. Unfortunatly Parks Service is likely going to continue to have half a dozen people plant a round-about while the government calls for women to do their part and provide more children.

[SmokingGun on 10.01.06 at 20:00]

Tilti - I think you need to read the article first. It's pretty clear, or as far as clear can be regarding the RG, that Mr. Ball is stating women in Bermuda need to have more children. Not raise them. What he's probably hoping is that this buckshot approach to getting women to have more sex might get him laid. If I ever hear someone at Lemontree say "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country" I'll know who's on the ball.

Speaking of that Limey. This was problably the the wrong day to let the wife know you reached level 60 and can't go any further. Bad timing I'm afraid.

[Bill Cook on 10.01.06 at 20:15]

They tell me that smoking weed lowers the male sperm count.

Maybe we could kill two birds with one stone ?

[tilti on 10.01.06 at 20:44]

SmokingGun, I read the article, the headline, which is in quotations reads "women may have to raise more children." Later Ball states "Bermuda will ask its women to have more than one child." I'm sure that he means the same thing in both cases, but the two are not interchangeable, and the fact that he beleives them to be is part of the problem in my opinion. Men can raise children and they should - I see his opinion as sexist, most of the young Bermudian women I know are 10x more driven than men of the same age, don't funnel their productivity into childbearing.

And I agree with Tim here, you can't just ask women who are strapped for cash already on a jampacked island to have children. It isn't feasible and it is well thought out. As general secretary of the Public Services Union he should be making wa differnce in the realm that is in his capacity; in raising the productivity of Bermudians workers.

[SmokingGun on 10.01.06 at 21:10]

tilti - with all due respect the word "raise" is in fact just the headline as conjured up by the editorial staff at the RG. I have no issue with the fact that many men in Bermuda haven't got a clue as to what it really means to raise a child, and I'm not just talking about the deliquent fathers, but this issue is about replacing older age people.

With regard to this matter this guy is so out of whack with the reality of what our island really needs. He says we might have to ask women to have more than one child. That's not the problem. We need to start asking them to have less fathers. Seriously after all that's been said and done about a lack of housing, unwed young mothers etc. this guy should be demanding that people need to start learning how to live longer just to take care of the kids we already have.

[tilti on 10.01.06 at 21:37]

SmokingGun, I think that we agree, and your commment about having less fathers is a great one.We also agree that Bermuda has enough people, just that most of them don't do as much as they are capable of. That being said however, when a title is in quotes it is because it is directly attributable to someone, in this case Mr. Ball. Bermudian women don't need to raise children, they need to be let into positions of oppurtunity that they are quailified for.

[Raptor on 10.01.06 at 21:58]

"This was problably the the wrong day to let the wife know you reached level 60 and can't go any further. Bad timing I'm afraid." (SmokingGun).

Oh Lord, Limey, Level 60 AND a call for babies! You are in trouble!

[SmokingGun on 10.01.06 at 22:00]

tilti - we totally agree. And as far as qoutes that's why I built in the discalimer on whether RG could be clear in it's reporting.... ;)

And as far as women being in the work force? I think that is exactly one of the better ways to resolve our so called problem. If you read between the lines Mr. Ball would rather have women staying at home "making/raising" babies instead of getting a solid education and joining in the work force so that they can help raise a family in such an expensive place. No he'd rather get more Union Workers into Parliament so that they can convince their workers to keep the PLP in power and muzzle the women who might actually want to see some serious changes brought about, especialy in housing and education.

Did you read the letter in todays paper about the twenty odd kids sitting off waiting to ambush four people in a van? We need more of that? I don't think so.

[Uncle Elvis on 10.01.06 at 23:17]

Phil, make you a deal. You don't tell my father, who's on my back about having a kid, about this and I won't tell your bride.

This whole story kinda freaks me out a little. I know they're not saying this, but is anyone getting a whole "Eugenics Lite" vibe off this? Like, we have to breed kids to take the jobs we have now, so those evil bastards, the foreigners, don't get 'em, kinda thing?
Maybe it's just me.

My favorite line in the article was:

“The unions represent a large percentage of the work force in Bermuda and should be rewarded by keeping the country functional and stable on a daily basis by having to make vital decisions.”

He's right... unless, of course, someone does ANYTHING someone in the union doesn't like, then it's "Screw keeping the country functional, I'm strikin'!"

Yeah. Let's reward them!

[Tiger Bay on 11.01.06 at 08:27]

Hmmm - need to increase the population? How about giving status to the top contributors to our international business sector. Or would that just make too much sense.

[observor on 11.01.06 at 09:08]

Uncle Elvis

Your observation is spot on - but - I would comment further that they are rewarded, much in the same way the rest of us non-union types are, its called a salary and benefits; although I don't have the luxury of "downing my tools" - or computer as the case may be - if my peers who are employed by other companies have 'issue' with their employer.

[Yet Another Limey on 11.01.06 at 09:22]

I don’t think this is an issue in Bermuda, there is a problem in some countries (e.g. Italy) where the number of old people is rapidly out growing the young peoples ability to support them.

However at the moment Bermuda is a bit of a special case as a significant proportion of the people working and paying taxes in Bermuda are ex-pats and so will never grow old here to become a burden on the younger generation.

However if international business ever leaves then it’s time to whisper sweet nothings to the wife in an attempt to grow yourself a nurse to look after you in your old age.

[ace on 11.01.06 at 10:06]

Normally I'd be off to the bushes to fornicate. Unfortunately for Bermuda I can no longer assist in increasing the population as I have been "fixed". But...I had three already, including two boys. I've done my bit.

[Fly Girl on 11.01.06 at 11:25]

I have serious issues with this. Parents are having a hard time raising the kids they already have. Whether it's just women or both parents, times have changed for the worse here, and financially a lot of people cannot do it. Because people have to work 2 and 3 jobs just to pay the rent, where are they expected to spend time raising a family. Before even thinking about something like this, we all need to look into the social ills that are plaguing this Island because parents cannot be at home to raise their children, like back in the day. What was Ed Ball thinking? FYI I do have a child and know the difficulties of raising her.

[Martin on 11.01.06 at 13:00]

In addition to what Fly Girl says...which I agree with, isn't this just a touch of the 1960/70's?

I mean...next thing you know, Ed will be suggesting that women should be in the home, chained to the stove and sink.

Amazing.

[Bandit on 12.01.06 at 05:35]

Stranger things have happened! Does anyone remember the last time a statement like this was made?

For those who don't remember Lois Browne Evans said the same thing in her "Fornicate in the bushes" speach in the late 60s but for different reasons.

[Backs on 12.01.06 at 08:48]

I think Ed Ball has it right to be concerned about the ageing population "bulge" along the population continuum; my concern is more along the lines of where is the money going to come from to support people who are not going to be competitive (too old) in what has become an increasingly global and competitive economy? Are current pension plans realistic and viable? In this "let the market rip" economic culture I have a number of concerns including continuing healthcare for our elders. My father's health insurance went to $800/month when he turned 65 ~ those are scary numbers to me! More Bermudian children ~ only if it is economically viable; Lord knows there are already plenty of people on the planet and this nonsense about "carrying on the family name" is intensely short sighted and vain :-)

[Raptor on 12.01.06 at 09:12]

The old and the young will end up competing for the same dollars—if they can get them away from floundering building projects and government’s overseas travel budget. The old aren’t doing too well in terms of support right now. And many of the young are failing school. It’s not just an issue of numbers of young people, this is also about whether or not those young people will have productive futures and be able to contribute to society--or cost society dearly. If they can’t contribute, we’ll just be building more prisons. And that’s where the money will go….

We have got to get the educational system functioning. Educationally deprived children enter kindergarten with one quarter the vocabulary of those who are not so deprived. They enter kindergarten having been read to about a total of 200 hours in their five years, compared to children from educated families who have experienced thousands and thousands of hours being read to. We need to reach these parents, and we need early intervention with these children. These children are failing entering kindergarten. “Have more babies” is a bad thing to say in public. Have babies responsibly is something else again.

[Tiger Bay on 12.01.06 at 09:15]

It's easy for Mr Ball to suggest having more babies. Why is it so difficult for him to speak out about Government's (and certain Ministers') questionable practices with the pensions?

[Combat Banker on 12.01.06 at 09:22]

If Ed is really concerned, he should do what all good economists recommend in this sort of age inverse pyramid situation: Allow more Immigration.

Note I am SERIOUSLY yanking the chain here, but, by the book, the best solution would be to allow a policy of educated, self supporting, "good-citizen" Long-Term Residents to actually stay. This would keep more of the longer term wealth generated on the island actually on the island to be reinvested in the 'physical plant' of Bermuda, raise the level of permanent intellectual capital on the island, and provide a younger, higher income base of new money to be taxed to support our older Bermudian Generations.

Overall this would actually improve the quality of life for all, especially Bermudians, IF IT WERE DONE RIGHT. Not saying we open the doors. Instead we be selective.

If you think of the Bermudian economy as a pie, increasing the population of the island by 'internal reproduction' does not make the pie bigger, it just slices it into more pieces. Meaning we will be numerous, but poor (either way: well f**'d). However with a CAREFUL immigration policy of allowing educated productive Long Term residents to stay in paradise, it would make the pie bigger as well, by keeping all their money here (instead of some retiremnet plan in the states somewhere). ie Each one bringing more capital to the island per capita than currently exists here. This means the Bermudian 'slices' get bigger as well. Further meaning that what children we have will have a better life.

I think I need a flip chart & a power point presentation to explain this correctly but I hope you all see my point.

[Mum on 12.01.06 at 15:26]

I have been waiting for a relevant topic so I could ask the question I raised when we were over at Christmas. Anyone know the average life expectancy of a Bermudian?

[Combat Banker on 12.01.06 at 15:39]

According to the CIA World Fact Book:

total population: 77.79 years
male: 75.7 years
female: 79.91 years (2005 est.)

[Mum on 13.01.06 at 15:57]

Combat Banker- much obliged and in thirteen minutes too!

[SmokingGun on 16.01.06 at 11:57]

male: 75.7 years

Then Limey had better get cracking....

[Full Fullish on 16.01.06 at 12:07]

Limey's Mum - 13 minutes is actually slow for Combat Banker, he's the largest human repository of useless knowledge I've ever seen. I have yet to stump him.....

[Pitts Bay on 21.02.06 at 20:09]

Rolf Commisiong also seems to believe that Bermudian women need to have more children (as per his interview on VSB News this evening) and that they should be given incentives by government to have more children. All in the name of filling all Bermuda jobs with Bermudians.

While the principle of trying to ensure that available jobs are filled by Bermudians (if they are qualified) is a good principle it is unlikely to happen anytime soon given the depth of the work in Bermuda.

A knock on effect of employing Non-Bermudians is that they are all paying Social Insurance into the government coffers. It is very unlikely that they will ever be able to benefit from these funds as the Social Insurance scheme is only portable in very limited circumstances. Therefore, all those excess funds will be available to all us Bermudians when we get old!! Short changes the expat, but benefits Bermudians.

SOOOO - why the desire to over populate Bermuda with people who will ultimately be a burden on the social insurance system. Much better to have expats fund such programs for the benefit of Bermudians!!!

[John Steele on 22.02.06 at 13:02]

Pitts Bay,

When I'm finished working out here in California I plan on returning to the island to take advantage of the Social Insurance all of you have paid in on my behalf while I've been gone. Add to that what I've got coming in Social Security payments from the US (as a Brit I am eligible to continue to receive them even if I don't live here), and I'll be in clover¡

What goes around, comes around.