Not so black and white

I was interested to see a half-page feature on Bob Marley in yesterday's Royal Gazette, as part of Black History month.

As a reader pointed out to me:

"Bob was no more black than white. He was fathered by a white man at the age of 50 when his mother was 18. Does that make him black or white or both?

A lot of people everywhere forget that there may be a black, white, Portuguese, Indian, Spanish etc. person in their background and only focus on faces. Rarely is this brought up in Bermuda or anywhere else for that matter and it seems sad that people use their ethnic look to their advantage when they want to. Go back and take a peak at your own lineage I say and we may all be surprised."

Comments

[SmokingGun on 08.02.06 at 15:50]

Silencio - you are kidding me right? I think you prove that Bob Marley's music is as relevant today as it was when he first wrote it. His attempts to get people to break free of their self imposed mental slavery is apparent in the fact that you do not acknowledge the accomplishments of the many blacks who hold huge positions in the world. Stop worrying about the USA and start by looking at the United Nations.

Shelley - Zoom Zoom. Now what are you going to do about the Miata?? The Solstice is in second gear and pulling away.... ;)

[Silencio on 08.02.06 at 16:00]

Shelley,

Lauren Hill is one of my favorite examples, as are a lot of other artists who really have some enlightening things to say. But these days we thumb our noses at anything that requires real thought. While PBS struggles for funding, we're out looking for the next Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake. And no one stops to question why the next big thing we want tends to look like Britney and Justin, either. Not enough people are asking why is it that people as talented as Denzel or Spike Lee are seen as exceptions to the rule, while talentless people of the right colour are constantly put on a pedestal.

The minute that someone says anything about the ugliness of racism that still exists, many seek to write them off as navel gazers or relics. Anyone want to talk honestly about what happened with that UBP group in 1998? No, that event is treated like it never happened, as ugly as it was, as recent as it was. But these are the same people who claim to have moved beyond racism. We want to embrace Bob Marley if only we can diminish the real reasons that made him important in the first place.

Kudos on your more diversified adverts - much more a required to make things right. I guess my real anger is that we seem forever cursed to be seeking Eurocentric ideals because no one wants to talk about what is so wrong about having a society based on Eurocentric ideals! Too few people say, "Fuck! How many times do we need to see Uma on the cover of Cosmo?"

[thisgrassman on 08.02.06 at 16:01]

"Besides the last time I checked there seemed to be quite a few black President, Prime Ministers and News Anchors."

Would you mind naming some?

Sir Trevor MacDonald (ITN)
Moira Stewart (BBC)

[Silencio on 08.02.06 at 16:06]

Alex Scott? Look at the UN? You guys are missing the point. The society we live in, which determines the standards seen in mainstream culture, is one that has been shaped by the hands of white people. Don't ask me to look at Kofi Annan as proof that Western Society is no longer infected with a Colonial virus. I appreciate Bob then, and I appreciate him now. My comment was based on how larger society would accept him now, as can be seen in Lauren Hill.

[tong on 08.02.06 at 16:07]

fact is that the majority of the US is of european descent... in some way or another... how is it possible to balance that? I am not saying that opportunities for all is bad, but just that its kind of hard to say it so all pervasive when the reality is that... well its the majority hence the everywhereness.

[drew on 08.02.06 at 16:11]

My original point before we had to go into a short history of the Iberian penninsula was that many Portuguese people are treated as an "other" race when they consider themselves white.

[loki on 08.02.06 at 16:14]

"To prove the point, Lauren Hill is yet another master of music and culture who has become irrelevant to a music industry that cannot make millions selling her highly conscious music."

Possibly not the best example. Not taking anything away from her artistically, but she's done her career no favours by launching into blatantly racist diatribes and referring to whites as 'crackers' in public places when she doesn't feel like she's on public view anymore.

[Another Thought on 08.02.06 at 16:33]

It is completely untrue to say that mainstream culture has been crafted by the hands of white people. I think what you meant to say was that maintream western political philosophy has been largely created by white politicians. Culture is something completely different, and I doubt you would argue against huge contributions the black community has made towards music, art, and mostly every mainstream form of self-expression. In fact, I would argue that, at least in the last 50 years or so, black culture has made up the majority of the mainstream in these areas, from Motown to Hip-Hop, Toni Morrison to Maya Angelou. I certainly believe that there is a contingent of older white racists who resent these changes, but I firmly believe that the vast majority of white people embrace these products of black expressionism and are glad that they exist. If you need concrete evidence, just look at the enormous increase in sales by record companies and publishing firms with mostly black artists in the last 50 years.

[Silencio on 08.02.06 at 17:07]

Thisgrass - As a matter of degrees, the UK is lightyears ahead of America and Bermuda. Still, I would not bet on Prince William or Harry marrying a non-white person any time soon. Not that the general UK populace would have a problem with it - moreso the blue bloods.

Eww - Wasn't aware of that, Loki. Tracy Chapman then.

Another Thought - We are more on the same page than not. Without question blacks have had a HUGE impact on popular culture, but little of it has taken place without the nod of whites. This is the key point. It is not enough for Halle to be fine, talented and black. The "nod" for her calls for a Eurocentric nose, and an acceptable hairdo.

I must say that it is refreshing to have a chat like this with non-whites. I never get a chance to do this. Thanks for the forum, Limey!

[Onion on 08.02.06 at 17:07]

"If you need concrete evidence, just look at the enormous increase in sales by record companies and publishing firms with mostly black artists in the last 50 years"

Black artists selling records for record companies is nothing new. In the 50s they did it with white people on the cover of the albums. The question is who owns the record companies?

I know what Silencio is saying and I don't think there is any debate about it. A mediocre Britney Spears, Angelina Jolie, or Keaneau Reeves will always become a bigger star in America than a talented Alica Keys, India Arie or Spike Lee. That is just the way it is in America and it reflects the predominant culture.

[Uncle Elvis on 08.02.06 at 17:18]

"Anyone want to talk honestly about what happened with that UBP group in 1998? No, that event is treated like it never happened, as ugly as it was, as recent as it was"

What exactly are you talking about here?

"...Lauren Hill..."

The problem I have with Lauren Hill is that... well... she's just not that good. In my opinion, of course. Add to this the fact that she is NOT sending the same message of equality and brotherhood that Mr. Marley sent and the analogy doesn't stand up.
Perhaps a better example would be the Black Eyed Peas. They have some amazing songs, beautiful, lyrical and wonderful messages all over the place. They are multi-racial and record with HUGE stars like Sting and Jack Johnson. But what's their big song now? "My Humps". If THAT isn't an indication that the recording industry wants no part of a message of equality, I don't know what is.

"...Presidents..."

I understand what you are saying here. I guess that you are talking about the US and not elsewhere, which I should be calling you on, because this thinking buys into the whole "America is the world" thing, but I won't. One of the things you're missing, however, is that there IS a large population in America that would vote for a Black President, were he qualified. I'm not saying that past Presidents have been qualified, but a Black President would be coming in at a disadvantage. We know this. Is it right? hell, no? Is it how it is? Yep.
So he (or she...) would be starting at a disadvantage and would HAVE to be qualified. There are many out there that could do this and there are many that would vote for them.
That's not the problem. The problem is that there is a small minority of psycho fucks who would do everything in their power to have this man gone. Every penny from the KKK would go to paying for assassins, physical or character. That man (I'd put "or woman", but that's a whole 'nother issue...) would be dead in a matter of weeks or months. This HAS to weigh on the minds of those that could do the job. Colin Powell came very close to coming out and saying it. This IS a factor.

"Don't ask me to look at Kofi Annan as proof that Western Society is no longer infected with a Colonial virus"

No-one is claiming this. I don't think anyone would. But we HAVE made strides. s'all we're saying.
We understand that it's not fair the way things are. We agree with you on that. But we HAVE come along. We've grown as a society. We're not where we should be, but we're getting there. Slowly but surely.
I know it seems like it's not going fast enough for you, but we're trying.

""Fuck! How many times do we need to see Uma on the cover of Cosmo?"

Is she even still a star? I'd have gone with Paris for this example. *grin*

[SmokingGun on 08.02.06 at 17:26]

"Without question blacks have had a HUGE impact on popular culture, but little of it has taken place without the nod of whites." - Silencio

All I can say is Rome wasn't built in a day. The times they are a changin....

[Uncle Elvis on 08.02.06 at 17:36]

Also, you keep bringing up Djimon Honsou...

As my wife would say. "DAMN, there is a fine man."

I have to say... from a purely aesthetic point of view... he is an inCREDIBLY good looking fella.

As is the fella that plays Eko on "Lost".

According to my wife, of course...

"Black artists selling records for record companies is nothing new. In the 50s they did it with white people on the cover of the albums."

On the other had, you had many HUGE white artists playing "Black Music" that openly embraced it and gave full props to those that came before. Elvis, Buddy Holly, J.P. "The Big Bopper" Richardson, Louis Prima and Eddie Cochran to name but a few.
Yes, there were those that were guilty of what you accuse, but there were many, many people that worked hard to make it better, to make it acceptible for Black folks to be on the radio.

And before you bring up the "Elvis was a racist" thing, check out http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/presley1.asp.

"The question is who owns the record companies?"

Um... the Jews.

(OK, before anyone gets in an uproar...

1) I'm part Jewish on my mother's side, so shaddap.
2) It's a joke, folks, so shaddap.
3) Tell me it's not true!

oh yeah... so shaddap! *grin*)

[thisgrassman on 08.02.06 at 17:47]

I know what Silencio is saying and I don't think there is any debate about it. A mediocre Britney Spears, Angelina Jolie, or Keaneau Reeves will always become a bigger star in America than a talented Alica Keys, India Arie or Spike Lee. That is just the way it is in America and it reflects the predominant culture.

Posted by Onion on 08.02.06 at 17:07

I think there needs to be some clarity here. Artist of all disciplines and backgrounds, if they take risk and threaten the status quo, will be marginalised by the mainstream media owned by corporations who dictate what has merit to be put to the mass markets

The mediocrity comes when artist allow themselves to be turned into commoditites by the mechanisms of capital - there is no way around this. The risk aversion that capital seeks looks for formulistic non threatening fluff. And even if some artistic energy can break through it is corrupted when it enters the mainstream.

Take Rap Music for example. This toxic shit is a degenerate from the Hip Hop movement which was an authentic black urban atristic culture expressive of this context. Who buys most of this rap crap - bored suburban white kids who are trying to piss of their parents.

[Yet Another Thought on 08.02.06 at 18:25]

"The question is who owns the record companies?"

I disagree. The question is: who is buying the records?

Simple rules of supply and demand dictate that no matter how much a white owned/managed record company pushes a black artist on the community, if the population does not like the music then they won't buy it. Black inspired music was popular in the white community way before huge record companies stepped in when they saw the money in it, just take Motown Records for example. Not only was it a black-owned company in Detroit, Smokey Robinson had complete control over all artistic talent and production. Of course, when the white executives at the big companies saw how popular this music was with their kids, they bought Motown, but this does nothing to diminish how white mainstream culture was embracing black creativity.

Record labels are a poor example compared to other art forms such as literature. Even though Toni Morrison may have been published by a white-controlled company, the fact that she is Chair of English Lit at Princeton and has won the Nobel Prize shows her acceptance and high regard in society (both black and white), regardless of how much money she may be making for her publishers. They (most likely) do not sit on the Board at Princeton, and definately do not make any decisions regarding the Nobel Prize. The fact that the panel who do make the decisions is largely white is purely a matter of them being the majority in the population, and them choosing her to win was not just the white bosses giving a poor black lady a chance because she wrote a nice story. There are some people on here who are really not giving black creativity and its influence on mainstream culture the acknowledgement it deserves.

[Uncle Elvis on 08.02.06 at 18:43]

"Smokey Robinson had complete control over all artistic talent and production

I think you're thinking of Berry Gordy...

You have a good point, though...

On the flip side, record companies are infamous for pushing the hell out of unpalatable pablum and making it popular (*coff* Brittney *coff*), regardless of market demand. Hell, Paris Hilton is famous for being famous. She only became popular and got the tv shows etc., because she's rich and famous. It's a weird, catch-22, oxymoronic thing, emphasis on the "moronic".

There are other factors, as well, in the music business.
One example would be "The Fabulous Thunderbirds". An absolutely fantastic blues-rock band that everyone thought was the "next big thing". I mean, hell, they had Jimmy Vaughn on guitar!

They received advance after advance to pay for tours and promotion and never quite took. So they kept touring and kept recording. And kept getting advances.
In a weird "The Producers" kind of thing, they now CAN'T become famous, or they'll never make any money.
See you don't owe anyone for advances like this. They go against potential earnings. If y'never make it, you don't owe it, but if you DO make it, you have to pay up.

So there you have it. Amazing band. Can never be famous. Weird how life works, innit?

[Point Finger on 08.02.06 at 18:50]

The market for movies sales and record sales target specially 8-18 year olds in the US. Thus the reason for mediorce singers and actors-Brittany Spears & Pitt, they sell to that age group, it makes money. Beyonce is a huge draw as well along with 50 cent with
that age group. Do you think we will be talking about 50 cent, Spears in 5 years?

There was a big push to get Colin Powell
to run for president he turned it down for various reasons, there is a huge push now for Codalisa Rice to run for president- both are Republican and black. She is downplaying the nomination- but two strong players that would most probably win the bid if they ran.

[SmokingGun on 08.02.06 at 19:23]

"Smokey Robinson had complete control over all artistic talent and production

I think you're thinking of Berry Gordy...

You have a good point, though...

Actually you both have a good point. Smokey was pretty much in charge of both talent and business operations working side by side as VP to Gordy.

[Uncle Elvis on 08.02.06 at 19:29]

Colour me corrected.

[shelley on 08.02.06 at 19:45]

Smoking Gun - I agree with you about the blonde thing, its funny but whenever I am in Holland I feel like I have entered the land of blonde, tall Amazon supermodels and everyone looks the same - its funny but in my family, my mother was Dutch, it is my cousin who is half Dutch Guyanese and half Dutch that everyone considers to be beautiful, combination of her unique look and stunning personality -and I think that is because she has tremendous pride in who she is culturally.

[loki on 08.02.06 at 19:48]

"Colour me corrected."

Hey, Elvis, so what you're trying to say is that they all look the same?

[Silencio on 08.02.06 at 20:14]

["Anyone want to talk honestly about what happened with that UBP group in 1998? No, that event is treated like it never happened, as ugly as it was, as recent as it was"

What exactly are you talking about here?]

You drink a lot of coffee, don't you, Elvis? :-)

That advert of MP Robinson that ran in 1998. Those UBP associates basically said he didn't qualify for Minister of Tourism (or Finance) because of his Afrocentric looks. They said nothing about his experience - they just focused on the image of a dreadlocked guy in a position of power. The backers of the ad remain anonymous, and that Dustin Hind guy took all the heat. Nobody wants to talk about this kind of thing in Bermuda

- - - Here we go with the "Mediocre talent gets top billing because that's what the public want" argument (rolleyes). Right, as if that wasn't a greater indication of the level of ignorance in society. No one woke up one day thinking, yeah, I want to be like Paris Hilton. They get taught that crap, and that is the point I'm making. Society has for years taught us to place a higher degree of importance on eurocentricity while demeaning every other aspect of color. Blacks do/did not decide to ignore their mixed race heritage, they were/are taught day in and day out that they are of lesser value for being any percentage black.

[Bill Cook on 08.02.06 at 20:22]

If Tiger Woods were a crack head housebreaker rather than the most famous sportsfigure possibly in the world would he be claimed by any ethnic group ?

If I read it correctly his mother is 100% Thai and his dad part Native American, Caucasian, and African American, so he is more Asian than anything else.

You see we can call ourselves anything we wish but we cannot change our genes or DNA.

He choose a blue eyed blonde so the eventual blessed event should be interesting.

Bob Marley may not wear a Kilt but that does not deny that he is half Scottish as I recall.

[loki on 08.02.06 at 20:25]

"You drink a lot of coffee, don't you, Elvis? :-)

That advert of MP Robinson that ran in 1998. Those UBP associates basically said he didn't qualify for Minister of Tourism (or Finance) because of his Afrocentric looks. They said nothing about his experience - they just focused on the image of a dreadlocked guy in a position of power. The backers of the ad remain anonymous, and that Dustin Hind guy took all the heat. Nobody wants to talk about this kind of thing in Bermuda."

*grabs deckchair/popcorn ;-)

[SmokingGun on 08.02.06 at 20:33]

That explains why Burch chopped his hair off I guess. He looks a hell of a lot smarter now. Except for the two ear-rings. And the handbag.....

[Bill Cook on 08.02.06 at 20:40]

Interestingly Loki how do you think Mr Robinson would have appealed to voters in an African country dressed as he choose to dress ?

Its one thing to wear African clothes that have as most do a tribal meaning important to Africans another to just dress up as one could be forgiven if they thought you were seeking employment in a Circus if the clothes made no ethnic or tribal sense.

Viewed by our most affluent east coast tourists they may feel what do we have here ?
I would say some of those WASPS would be a little perplexed !!

Nothing wrong with expressing your individuality privately but not if it may jeopardise the bread and butter of our tourist ind. or even IB.

"lIFE IS NOT FAIR, LIFE IS LIFE"

[loki on 08.02.06 at 20:44]

Bill, what are you talking about? I was quoting Silencio and having a bit of fun with the fact that this has potential to be an interesting aspect of this debate, for reasons that may, or may not become apparent if Elvis chooses to respond.

[shelley on 08.02.06 at 20:45]

Smoking Gun - I really appreciate the insight from yourself, Jake, Silencio, Observer and others - it certainly has enhanced my perspective. Here's to more enlightened marketing and thoughtfulness in our choices. Cheers and Zoom Zoom.

[Uncle Elvis on 08.02.06 at 20:52]

Ooooh! I've been outed! Do I get to create a firestorm?

Anyway.

I really don't want to get back into this. It's caused enough people too much pain. But I really can't back down from this and HAVE to set the record straight.

"That advert of MP Robinson that ran in 1998. Those UBP associates basically said he didn't qualify for Minister of Tourism (or Finance) because of his Afrocentric looks.They said nothing about his experience - they just focused on the image of a dreadlocked guy in a position of power."

Actually, I'd suggest you to look at the whole series of ads before you say this.
Taking stuff out of context allows it to be used to send any message you want.
The main thrust of the campaign was that the backers felt that the PLPs plank was lacking in any specifics. They hadn't said who would be doing what. That was the focus. A good campaign? That's not for me to say. I'm just stating facts.
So here they do a few ads, highlighting this in a very simple way. Then we have Finance. That's the next one on the list. Important to Bermuda? Yep?
You got Eugene Cox in your lineup and don't announce "Ok. We haven't completely finalized who will be doing what, but check it out. We have Babe Ruth batting!"
Seeing where I'm coming from?
"But wait, there's another prospect! Someone who could maybe do the job.
But, MAN, does he look like shit."
I know for a fact that the picture in the ad was chosen to paint Mr. Robinson in the worst light. Gasp. Shock! Horror! A political ad that casts your opponent in a negative light!
Yeah, it wasn't the best idea, but I assure you that the intention wasn't anything to do with his "Afrocentric" look, it was more about the two factors above. One, they had a fantastic candidate for Finance and hadn't given him the nod and, two, come on... he looked like crap. It's not just the dreadlocks, it was the stringy beard, the ill-fitting glasses, the seeming lack of care of any sort in his appearance.

The backers of the ad remain anonymous, and that Dustin Hind guy took all the heat. Nobody wants to talk about this kind of thing in Bermuda"

Dusty. His name is Dusty.

Thank you for at least giving him the respect of acknowledging that there were others behind the ad and that he stepped up and took the heat. I appreciate that. Too much pain has been caused by this whole thing and by the "Fuck him, the racist bastard" aftermath.

Now, can we please stop talking about it?

[SmokingGun on 08.02.06 at 20:54]

Zoom Zoom and goodnight. I'm off to catch the grammys....

[Bill Cook on 08.02.06 at 20:55]

Loki

You were /are not the only one having a bit of fun here actually !

In Uncles case however for reasons that are obvious its a bit below the belt IMO.

Still think if one wants to dress up like a Corned Beef Inspector he/she should stay out of politics.

I regret that Burch ako as Gerinomo choose to go straight with the Regimental hair cut and cut off the Geronimo locks what a spoil sport.

In the old days he was with the Up People show and had a magnificant Afro and I mean MAG !

[loki on 08.02.06 at 20:58]

"Thank you for at least giving him the respect of acknowledging that there were others behind the ad and that he stepped up and took the heat. I appreciate that. Too much pain has been caused by this whole thing and by the "Fuck him, the racist bastard" aftermath.

Now, can we please stop talking about it?"

Indeed, and that's a large part of why I have so much respect for Dusty. Apart from being a very learned and nice chap, he has honour.

[Thaao Dill on 08.02.06 at 21:12]

after scanning, the following popped up:

- julia roberts and denzel starred in the pelican brief together, with fundamental romantic overtones contained in the relationship.

- there is no difference between hip-hop music and rap music. hip-hop music is based on rapping, rap music has rapping in it. any difference was cultivated in the late 90's by dimestore/open mic philosophers(i.e. Talib Kweli, Last Emperor, even Eminem at the time) who became frustrated with the sudden financial success and as such commodification of hip-hop. there is a difference in meaning between hip-hop and rap, as verbs of a sort, but, neither is worse than the other. it's more like the difference between the olympics and the 100 meter dash.

- beyond that, hip-hop has always been street music. might not always continue to be, but, from inception, it was built on the block, by the block, for the block. don't let rappers delight fool you, hip-hop was confrontational, connected with the drug/gang culture, insecure, dangerous, hypocritical, etc. from jump. it was also sincere, insightful, brilliant, as blissfully post-modern as any form of music will likely ever be, immediate, etc. from jump. the issue is created when it's ubiquity forces itself to be homogenised to sustain it's new weight and size. essentially, hip-hop is folk music for black people from new york, with language and instincts originally specific to those from that area. imagine if alpine yodelling became the hot new noise to chase. eventually, the rams horns would get replaced with synth stabs, a traditional hymn about a specific mountain's beauty would have it's lyrics reworked to become more relateable, and so on. hip-hop hasn't gotten too big for it's britches, rather, the world wants it to fit in it's pocket.

- pop music in the 50's to the 70's was no less vapid than the modern stuff. it was definitely less immediately explicit, but for every Curtis Mayfield you had thirty Sidney Joe Qualls or Ronettes, doling out thick, shameless, empty calorie treacle by the verseload. just as now for every Lupe Fiasco you have thirty D4L knockoffs muttering about laffy taffy over twitchy ringtones. people have always liked easy music, because at the root of it, for many/most, songs are just there to make days go by faster. which is ok. it just seems far worse because of the mile wide pipeline to the crap that's available and purchased by the vast majority of folk. the buggles had it right from day one.

- the ongoing problem black folk have with our own degrees of coloring is friggin concrete. dunno if any of you listen to my morning show, but my co-host and i have running argument gag about who is the lightest, with both of us trying to avoid that classification. we gussy it up with rap battles and old playground snaps, but, as with all comedy, at the root there's a deep barrel of pain. i think it's sad and alternately ridiculous because this is a dispute that people actively cultivate. i mean, christ, it took me years to even consider dating a light skinned black woman because i didn't want to be one of those dudes that date "yella" sisters based on nothing but that.

- the reason lauren hill isn't as big as bob marley is because her songs aren't as good, well, at least, post miseducation, anyway. lately, they're a bit too verbose to really work. she has problems shedding hip-hop wordiness when moving into song forms that require a lot more said with far fewer sentences. bob, along with all the other geniuses(paul/curtis/sly/brian), summed up their messages in neat little hooks and stanzas that could fit in the palm of your hand and head for days at a time. l-boogie crams bars like she's never seen an 8 track recorder before and doesn't know when she will again, on some fiona apple after mainlining a wicked espresso and blow blend to the carotid artery sort of business.

- oh, and lauryn may be racist, but not for the reasons i think some folk think.

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/lauryn.htm explains why.

- brad pitt has made bad movies. brad pitt is also a filthily talented actor who doesn't seem to take himself too seriously, which is a marvelous combination. i mean, the dude turned down appearing on Inside the Actor's Studio because he didn't believe, at this point, his body of work deserves the acclaim.

- revisit britney's first couple singles. seriously, they're not that bad. she became a star less because of her records, and more due to how her management exploited the obsession the world has with the virginal whore conflict and it's associated imagery. that said, baby hit me one more time is not a bad song, and not even on some ironic so shitty it's marvelous all over again kinda stuff. i dare you guitarists to find the tab online and give it a go. really, it's pretty solid.

yes, i care too much about pop culture. forgive the load. have a great night.

[loki on 08.02.06 at 21:22]

"- oh, and lauryn may be racist, but not for the reasons i think some folk think"

Thaao, I can assure you that my comments in this regard have nothing to do with that tired, old myth that is thoroughly debunked by snopes. I was well aware of that myth, I assure you. I have no doubt as to the veracity of my sources, who have heard this crap first-hand.

[Thaao Dill on 08.02.06 at 21:41]

loki - ah. right then. yeah, i've heard lauryn say some rather outlandish stuff in interviews, and have anecdotally heard of her saying even more outlandish mess in private conversations. just bugs me when folk roll with the rumours, despite their validity by association, if that makes sense.

but, nowadays, she is loudly bonkers. her tour rider requirements include and i quote, "no eye contact from anyone ms. hill doesn't feel comfortable with, at anytime."

so, i mean, really, at this point, it's all just so many grains of salt with her, y'know? obvious loons saying obviously loony things doesn't really bug me too much. the sane nuts are far more worrisome.

in any event, sorry for the incorrect inference. have a good night.

[loki on 08.02.06 at 22:09]

" obvious loons saying obviously loony things doesn't really bug me too much. the sane nuts are far more worrisome.

in any event, sorry for the incorrect inference. have a good night."

A good point, well made. The funny thing is that, in the days of The Fugees, she seemed to be the more level-headed one! I agree, though - her issues seem to run a bit deeper than casual bigotry. The girl's got issues, judging from my friends in the music industry and others I know that work at certain restaurants and bars that she frequents.....

[Silencio on 09.02.06 at 08:05]

Elvis,

""But wait, there's another prospect! Someone who could maybe do the job.
But, MAN, does he look like shit."
I know for a fact that the picture in the ad was chosen to paint Mr. Robinson in the worst light. Gasp. Shock! Horror! A political ad that casts your opponent in a negative light!
Yeah, it wasn't the best idea, but I assure you that the intention wasn't anything to do with his "Afrocentric" look, it was more about the two factors above. One, they had a fantastic candidate for Finance and hadn't given him the nod and, two, come on... he looked like crap. It's not just the dreadlocks, it was the stringy beard, the ill-fitting glasses, the seeming lack of care of any sort in his appearance. "

First of all, are you saying that it was okay to ignore his accomplishments and qualifications to do the job due to his appearance? Second, did it ever cross your mind that to a whole lot of people, Robinson did not in fact look like crap! The dreads, the locks, the beard and the daishiki were totally acceptable to me. Anyone who saw the man in person would tell you that the ad was not about wether or not he looked like crap, but rather that anyone who looked afrocentric, or embraced afrocentricity ought to be deemed to be crap. If the explanation is as simple as you say, then why in the hell did the advertisers cowardly duck behind Dusty Hind????? If you want to take a strech and say that it wasn't racist, well at the very least it was an expression of a pure colonialistic mind-set. That ad was repugnant, and no one should be trying to defend it! According to that group, Bob Marley would be rejected too!!!!!!!!!

FUCK!!!!!!!!!!! You've spoiled my day now.

[Silencio on 09.02.06 at 09:19]

Robinson WAS qualified for Minister of Finance, but he was discriminated against for has afrocentricity. That advert wasn't merely a photo of the man - it was distorted to make it look bad too. How many of you would reject Albert Einstein because of how he looked?

John Barritt can have the most gigantic, hairy mustache on the planet and wear his glasses on the tip of his nose. But as an accepted form of colonial style, he would never be accused of looking like crap. Prince Charles has one of the lamest hairstyles on earth, and he is given the thumbs up. The Queen Mother practically had a plastic helmet stuck on her head, but it is Robinson's dreadlocked hairstyle and beard that is called crap. the Governor can wear that asinine, plumed, big ass hat at the most formal of ceremonies, but you want to take issue with Robinson's daishiki? The Speaker of the House wears that RIDICULOUS white wig, but no friend of the UBP is calling for a change with that!

It's the same discrimination. Bob Marley = black as defined by the Eurocentric standard of what is/isn't acceptable. It's the same disease that says that Beyonce gets on the cover of Cosmo, while Kelly Rowlands doesn't. How the hell can you defend that Robinson advert????

[thisgrassman on 09.02.06 at 09:31]

Can someone help me here? I thought the really offensive thing about the Robinson ad was that the graphic design incorporated a bulls eye / cross hair design behind his head (inference of being taken out/assassinated). My memory is a little hazy but this seems to be my recollection.

[Silencio on 09.02.06 at 09:42]

I wouldn't have called it a bullseye (which actually makes things a whole lot worse). If I recall correctly, the circles and distorted photo were all a part of making his looks appear more offensive to those with colonial sensibilities. It wasn't enough to simply say he wasn't qualified - they basically wanted to scare the shit of the public by saying that THIS dreadlocked guy does not fit OUR colonial standard of what looks like a Finance Minister, and thus he is dangerous to Bermuda's future. Read - we could trust him if only he looked more like Grant Gibbons.

[2 Gear Cyrus on 09.02.06 at 10:22]

If there was one thing about him I'd change, it wouldn't be his hair. It would be the fact that he cannot speak without using the very odd word "juxtaposition".

Just listen.

[Silencio on 09.02.06 at 14:03]

Elvis,

I really do hope that you are going to debate this issue. By comparison, the Brannon incident and plantation comments are non-events. That advert was the grossest form of discrimination I've seen in Bermuda's politics in a very long time, and the justification you've provided so far is unsatisfactory. If you want an answer to why blacks still vote for the PLP in spite of their divisive comments, you need look no further than your bathroom mirror!

[2 Gear Cyrus on 09.02.06 at 14:44]

Silencio. The Brannon thing may have been a non event to you.

You want to know why many whites are fed up at being insulted by blacks - you look in the mirror.

[SmokingGun on 09.02.06 at 14:51]

"If you want an answer to why blacks still vote for the PLP in spite of their divisive comments, you need look no further than your bathroom mirror!"

Huh? Because all white men look like Elvis Presley?

Well that's OK I guess. After all he was a pretty good looking guy in the early years. ;)

[Silencio on 09.02.06 at 14:57]

2 gear - read what I said again - "By comparison - are nonevents"

[2 Gear Cyrus on 09.02.06 at 15:03]

In your humble opinion Silencio - not in mine. I think both were disgusting in the extreeme.

[Silencio on 09.02.06 at 15:29]

2 Gear

These "well-meaning UBP supporters" spent the time and money during an election campaign to use someone's ethnocentric looks as a means of scaring the shit out of the electorate. I am certain that the photo was doctored to make it look grittier as well - The ad had nothing to do with the content of Robinson's character! It blatantly meant that people who look like this have no business being Finance Minister. It was a condemnation of diversification and an exercise in colonial virtues!

People want to say that Scott's Shakespearin excuse was Wilde, well look at Elvis' explanation.

BS Reason 1 - We attacked Robinson because the PLP had yet to name Eugene Cox as the future finance Minister.

* What about the other Ministries without faces? Why was Robinson the only one who got attacked?

BS Reason 2 - We attacked Robinson because we didn't ONLY dislike his (afrocentric) dreadlocks - we ALSO disliked his (afrocentric) beard, his glasses(BS) and his (afrocentric) style of dress. Who cares about his qualifications or ability to do the job when he doesn't look like us?

* Imagine if someone ran an ad with a doctored, distorted photo of Trevor Moniz near a toolshed or some other horticultural equipment, with the exact same tagline. Had I used his Portuguese heritage in that way, I'd be roasted alive. You honestly thing such manipulation during an election is in the same league as the Brannon comment made privately? Surely you jest.

[Uncle Elvis on 09.02.06 at 16:12]

Good lord I didn't want to get BACK into this.

I need a coffee before I can deal with this.

Guilden and I went over this months ago. Can't you just read that, instead?

No? Ok...

If I recall correctly, the circles and distorted photo were all a part of making his looks appear more offensive to those with colonial sensibilities."

First off, the photo wasn't distorted. Get the facts straight. It was 100% un-retouched. Not even in the slightest. It's not fair to rewrite history.

BTW, are we arguing Colonialism or Racism? They are two different subjects and, while I know they are entwined, I'd prefer to keep them separate when I'm arguing and concentrate on the matter at hand, not jump from one to the other when it suits me.

Was the ad trying to appeal to a Colonial mindset? Yes, yes it was. See below on Finance.
Was it racist for picking out one Black guy in a lineup of Black folks?

Wait... let me say that again.
...one Black guy in a lineup of Black folks?

That's right. The PLP lineup at the time had ONE White man, David Allen. On a lighter note, no pun intended, when he passed MANY people I know, black AND white, young and old, said, basically, "David Allen was WHITE? Really?" I thought it was pretty funny. Anyways...

All the ads had the concentric circles. All of them.
The layout of the ads were all the same and, with only one exception, they all had pictures of people of colour. Where was the cry of "Racist bastards" for the others, if the actual layout of the ads were so offensive?
Drop the "Target" thing. It's a moot point.

"First of all, are you saying that it was okay to ignore his accomplishments and qualifications to do the job due to his appearance?"

YES! When it comes to Finance Minister!
dammit.. can you go to the thread where Guilden and I hashed this out?
Look, I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it IS... ESPECIALLY in the world of Finance and Western Politics, there is a certain "look".
That look is polished, well presented, well groomed, IRONED. We all talk about how we want to be on the World Stage and how we're ready to step up.
Sending this guy would have made us a laughing-stock.

"Second, did it ever cross your mind that to a whole lot of people, Robinson did not in fact look like crap! The dreads, the locks, the beard and the daishiki were totally acceptable to me."

For Finance Minister? REALLY? Picture it. The huge conference is coming up. International. Everyone's going to be there. You need to send someone to represent your entire country. you have a choice between the dapper and respectable Eugene Cox and the Daishiki'd Mr. Robinson. Regardless of qualifications, regardless of anything but strictly the look, who do you send? No... let me simplify. You have to send someone to represent YOU at a bank. Let's say to get you a loan. You want them to take you seriously, 'cuz you need this loan to set up a new company. Who do you send?

Guilden already raked me over the coals for the unfairness of this.

"Anyone who saw the man in person would tell you that the ad was not about wether or not he looked like crap, but rather that anyone who looked afrocentric, or embraced afrocentricity ought to be deemed to be crap."

So, wait. Not shaving your beard or ironing your clothes or taking care of your dreadlocks is Afrocentric?

That's all the ad showed. Messy dreadlocks, an unkempt beard and a wrinkled shirt with no tie... in a promotional shot. No tie. Politician. No tie. Promotional shot. Politician. In 1998. Politician without a tie.

But since you brought up seeing him in person... wearing mismatched Kente Cloth from several different regions, sending several different messages (Yes, a white man knows about Kente cloth, surprise!), or a wrinkled dashiki... THAT'S Afrocentric?
Even Marion Barry wears a suit and tie. He even had his dashiki ironed.

"If the explanation is as simple as you say, then why in the hell did the advertisers cowardly duck behind Dusty Hind?????"

If people are waving metaphorical pitchforks and torches, y'don't jump out and go "Here I am!"
It was less that they ducked, and more that he stood up like a man and said, "The ad was placed anonymously and will stay that way. The buck stops here."

If you want to take a strech and say that it wasn't racist, well at the very least it was an expression of a pure colonialistic mind-set.

As I said before, these are two different arguments.
I wouldn't go so far as to say "Pure" colonialistic, but it did appeal to people that want the status quo kept. Which includes Finance Ministers looking like Finance Ministers. Yes, the status quo is affected by colonialism and, yes, that's not fair. You get no argument from me there. But "IS" and "SHOULD" are miles apart and they don't change overnight.

"That ad was repugnant, and no one should be trying to defend it!"

I hope I've, at least, tried to ease you down from "repugnant" to "a bad idea"...

"According to that group, Bob Marley would be rejected too!!!!!!!!!"

For Finance Minister? Yeah. Probably. For Community and Cultural Affairs, oooh... the thought makes me drool! Can you imagine? Entertainment would be King again!

D'you see where I'm coming from at all?

[Uncle Elvis on 09.02.06 at 16:26]

Silencio...

I said it before. The photos were not doctored in any way.

"What about the other Ministries without faces? Why was Robinson the only one who got attacked?"

He wasn't the only one in this campaign, he's just the only one you're choosing to remember.

"We attacked Robinson because we didn't ONLY dislike his (afrocentric) dreadlocks - we ALSO disliked his (afrocentric) beard, his glasses(BS) and his (afrocentric) style of dress"

His bears was Afrocentric? Really? A big, thick, full beard is Afrocentric? A beard like a Viking is Afrocentric?

Also, a button-down striped shirt is Afrocentric? You're kidding, right?
We are talking about the ad. In the ad, he was wearing a regular button down shirt.

Your analogy of Trevor Moniz anda toolshed was not quite right. First off, the photo was only a head and shoulders shot.

A better analogy would be if Mr. Foggo had decided to shave his head into a Mohawk stripe down the middle of his head, with eagle feathers, and wore moccasins and a loincloth, carrying a tomahawk and a whaleskin parka to a public function, embracing his Native American heritage.

[Uncle Elvis on 09.02.06 at 16:28]

"Prince Charles has one of the lamest hairstyles on earth, and he is given the thumbs up. The Queen Mother practically had a plastic helmet stuck on her head..."

Um... you know that these two examples are BORN into the offices they take, right? They're not elected...