Political truths and reconstruction

On Saturday evening, around 60 people filled St. Paul’s Christian Education Centre to discuss how to make Bermuda’s political system more democratic. At the start of the evening, I was somewhat sceptical about the need for such change. By the end, I was more convinced.

The evening began with 15-minute presentations from four speakers: Tom Vesey, David Sullivan, Julian Hall and Denis Pitcher. These were followed by 5-minute commentaries from Graeme Outerbridge and Ben Nunn. Audience members were then invited to contribute thoughts and questions.

Tom Vesey began by arguing that his participation in Bermuda’s democracy in the last eight years was limited to casting a vote for either John Barritt or Dorothy Burch. “And what did we get for electing John Barritt?” he asked, pointing out that in that time Mr. Barritt has not passed any legislation. It wasn’t a criticism of Mr. Barritt, but an indictment of the current system, whereby even an elected representative can have little influence on the way Bermuda is governed.

In a forum that was sometimes long on idealism and short on specifics, Mr. Vesey offered several suggestions to give people more of a say in the running of their country and make the current system less adversarial. These included:

1. Eliminate party whips to encourage MPs to openly debate the pros and cons of issues instead of retreating behind party positions.

2. Change the seating in the House to avoid having two sides facing off against each other.

3. Get rid of the term “Opposition”.

4. Have the Government include one or more members of the Opposition in the Cabinet.

5. Remove the secrecy surrounding Cabinet meetings.

6. Have fixed election dates. Mr. Vesey said that this would also facilitate the use of primaries, which would give people a greater say in their representatives.

7. Increase the use of referenda.

8. Change the method of constituting the Senate. Having appointed members is anti-democratic.

9. Introduce a code of conduct for elected officials.

10. Give MPs more to do by having more legislation made by bipartisan committees. This would encourage MPs to work with each other and think about issues more deeply.
    

David Sullivan suggested that we don’t have a failed system, we have a failed process, although by the end of his talk I still didn’t understand the distinction. He noted that the sustainable development process has spent a great deal of time and money looking at processes, but not at those running them. He observed that while MPs will soon discuss which of them are part-time and which full-time, and how much they should be paid, they have not asked the people what they think. He also wondered why there were no PLP or UBP MPs in the audience.

Julian Hall said that the Westminster system is fine in principle, and has served the UK well. However, he questioned whether it is appropriate for a country of Bermuda’s size. He argued that with only 60,000 people, Bermuda is ideally suited to using referenda on a regular basis, having more government committees, and greater transparency in the Cabinet. Neither party has a monopoly on wisdom, he said. He also warned that lots of young people feel isolated from politics and that “social unrest is right around the corner”.

Denis Pitcher said that independence from the UK under the current political system is unimportant while that system offers the average Bermudian little say in the running of their country. He stressed the value of a British passport to him and said that he couldn’t understand why some Bermudians want to have responsibility for things such as external affairs and the police when the UK is willing to do this on Bermuda’s behalf. (Julian Hall later echoed these sentiments, saying that having an honest broker such as the UK to deal with these things could be a good thing for Bermuda.)

Stuart Hayward remarked that Bermuda is not the only place to be considering whether it is best served by its current political system. He pointed to the UK’s Power Inquiry, a recently completed independent report into the state of the UK’s democracy.

Graeme Outerbridge said that the current political system has marginalised small parties. Select committees have been replaced by the power of the Cabinet. “Education” about independence sounds like state control, not democracy, he said. He spoke of the need to make Bermuda’s political process relevant again and said that the House of Assembly needed to embrace technology instead of resisting it. He reminded the audience that the private sector is the source of innovation, not the public sector, and urged more support for think tanks such as the Foundation for Bermuda Studies (of which he is a founding member).

Ben Nunn alleged that financiers are the ones who control politics, and launched a scathing attack on HSBC and the forces of globalisation. I wasn’t quite sure how this was relevant to the discussion.

Opening things up to the audience, Stuart Hayward asked people to speak without being offensive, listen without being defensive and disagree without being disagreeable.

One audience member asked what we can do to change our political system short of independence. Graeme Outerbridge reminded him that the UK has said that there can be no changes to our constitution without independence. However, Julian Hall suggested that if both parties agreed on systemic change, the UK would be minded to accept it. He also said that not all the changes being discussed would need an amendment to the constitution.

Another attendee asked about the alternatives to the two party system. Tom Vesey suggested a two party system where people just relaxed and let MPs speak their minds. Graeme Outerbridge agreed that withdrawing the whip was the way to go. (But if the whip is withdrawn, what point is there in having political parties at all, I wondered.) Denis Pitcher said that if the parties were delivering there would be no need to get rid of the system at all. Julian Hall said that politics based on ideology is what we should be all about.

At this point, Renee Webb entered the hall. After David Sullivan’s earlier comment, when the audience saw her they began to laugh, then applaud. An expression of puzzled amusement crossed Ms. Webb’s face as she sat down in the seat in front of me.

Michael Marsh stood up to say that the Premier had written a letter to Bermudians For Referendum (BFR) in which he said, “I view your efforts as an excellent example of democracy at work”. Mr. Marsh was clearly both surprised and impressed by this. He went on to say that BFR believe that the constitution should be changed to allow people to start a petition that will automatically lead to a binding referendum on an issue. The aim, he said, is to introduce a little bit of direct democracy into what is currently a representative democracy.

A recurring topic was the unwritten rule of British politics that politicians caught lying or engaging in unethical behaviour must resign at once. Both Julian Hall and Stuart Hayward suggested that such a principle was unworkable in Bermuda because of the risk that it would exhaust the small pool of political talent from which Bermuda has to draw. I wondered how, then, politicians were to be kept honest. Mr. Hayward later suggested to me that giving the people the ability to recall an MP in the middle of their term was one way to do this. Since Bermuda does not seem to have the UK’s “culture of resignation”, this seems like the next best thing. However I’m still uncertain how it mitigates the risk of exhausting the talent pool.

Overall it was an thought-provoking evening and I commend Khalid Wasi for pulling together such an interesting group of speakers.

Comments

[Marcus on 13.03.06 at 05:21]

Surely if a politician lies or engages in unethical behaviour they show that they have no political talent?

I'm taking about "No I didn't waste millions of tax payers money when I did" as opposed to "Nope honey I didn't buy a new graphics card today" type lies. My wife would probably disagree with that particular example ;)

Urm after re-reading that I have a feeling that, that's a slightly naive view.

[sandgrownan on 13.03.06 at 09:00]

There is nothing wrong with two party politics, in principle at least, joining a group that shares the same ideology makes a lot of sense. You can talk about that ideology and the best way to turn that into policy and then communicate that policy to the electorate. The problem becomes as both Tom Vesey and Julian Hall stated that Bermuda is perhaps too small and everyone knows everyone else a little too well.

Withdrawal of the whip is a good idea, as is adding oppostion MP's to cabinet. Perhaps there should be a rule that says 40% of cabinet should be made from the oppostion. I also would like to see our current crop being less defensive and provide direct answers to questions rather than ranting.

The debates I've heard on the radio are staggeringly bad in their delivery and lacking in wit, confrontational and you come away wondering about the itelligence of the those involved and by extension their suitability for the job.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 13.03.06 at 09:32]

I do agree with the removal of the Whip, however, I think if elected officials simply remember that they have been entrusted with the running of the country by the people of the country and are expected to run the country in a manner that beneficial to all sectors of the population it matters not what the political structure is.

I also support Opposition members serving in a Cabinet capacity. I believe the various constituencies are now fairly balanced in regards to number of voters, therefore, the determination of percentage of participation in Cabinet by the Opposition should be based on the percentage split of the total vote.

While this is not a coalition style of government it does allow the political arena to operate in a more balanced manner as it operates based solely on the wishes of the people and hopefully no one will feel excluded.

This will also remove the unnecessary secrecy of how decisions are made in Cabinet. I believe in "Government in the Sunshine", that is, fully and complete transperancy of the operation of government.

[sandgrownan on 13.03.06 at 09:43]

Guilden - we agree on something at last!

Your first paragraph is correct but a fantasy. I think the nanosecond they are elected, they forget who put them there, and therein lies the problem.

[Yet Another Limey on 13.03.06 at 10:00]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a two party system in principal. However unlike most democratic countries where the choice is between right and left, here there is a perception the choice is between right and black.

The only way to sort this situation out is to encourage more whites to join the PLP.

So I’m asking all white Bermudians who read this to examine their political views. Do you believe society should look after it’s weakest members? Do you believe there should be housing, healthcare and excellent schooling available to all not just those who can afford it?

Then why not join the PLP?

At the end of segregation, brave black Bermudians took it upon themselves to join the ‘white’ clubs and organisations, and I think we’d all agree the island is better for the fact that these barriers have been broken down. Now it’s the white community’s turn.

[Triggerfish on 13.03.06 at 10:12]

"Both Julian Hall and Stuart Hayward suggested that such a principle was unworkable in Bermuda because of the risk that it would exhaust the small pool of political talent from which Bermuda has to draw. I wondered how, then, politicians were to be kept honest."

Ummm ... as far as I'm aware, the same rules that apply elsewhere in the Commonwealth are on the books in Bermuda. Former British War Minister John Profumo (of the scandal fame) died last week. He had to resign from the MacMillan Cabinet NOT because he had affairs with call girls that had the potential to jeopardise British national security (one of the party girls was simultaneously seeing the military attache at the Soviet embassy in London). He had to resign because he had lied to Parliament about his liasons, denying them outright when first confronted with the evidence. His political fate remains a textbook example of one of the parliamentary system's chief self-correcting mechanisms -- namely, if a Cabinet Minister misleads Parliament he or she is obligated to resign his or her portfolio. That rule is certainly built into the Bermuda system. But the problem here is not an absence of checks and balances; it's the lack of political will to ensure the system does not become unchecked and unbalanced, a lack of political will to see the rules are actually followed ...

[sandgrownan on 13.03.06 at 10:31]

"Both Julian Hall and Stuart Hayward suggested that such a principle was unworkable in Bermuda because of the risk that it would exhaust the small pool of political talent from which Bermuda has to draw. I wondered how, then, politicians were to be kept honest."

This is the bit that bothers me the most. Why do Bermuda's politicians believe that they don't need to be held to the same standards as everyone else? Why do they think that they are so special? Pure BS I'm afraid. They should be leading by example and be held to higher standards, not lower.

[gyrovague on 13.03.06 at 10:33]

"Then why not join the PLP?"

I do not wish to join the PLP because I do not feel it is a democratic organisation. All party policy is set by the unelected and faceless Central Committee, not by the branches.

[stuart J Hayward on 13.03.06 at 10:41]

A quick response: The problem with the "resignation" secenario is that it depends on parliamentarians to censure their own. Given the inherent arrogance of a supreme entity, which parliament is, there is a reluctance to act against its own. If the powere of recall was in the hands of the electorate (the employers, as it were) there is more likelihood that bad behaviour would be sanctioned, and more likelihood that potential miscreants would keep to the stright and narrow path.

The resignation of one or two Ministers would hardly be noticed in Britain's almost 650 MPs. In Bermuda with a total of 36 MPs, the elimination of two from the pool of potential ministers makes a much bigger difference.

[sandgrownan on 13.03.06 at 10:48]

Stuart - agreed, but what do we do? How do we keep a lid on their antics? Ensure the cabinet is made up of both UBP and PLP MP's - and let them self administer?

I don't know the answer, but their appears to be a certain arrogance that is currently going unchecked.

[Denis Pitcher on 13.03.06 at 10:56]

"Then why not join the PLP?"

As a young Bermudian of mixed racial background, I echo gyrovague's comments.

I have examined and met with members from both parties, the UBP and PLP, and did my best to consider joining each with an open mind.

Here is what I will propose. I will join any party that:

1. Put's the will of the people 1st and focuses on "Bermudian", not "Black and White"

2. Institutes a reasonable form of direct democracy that takes us away from this representative democracy in the form of:

a. set terms in office

b. referendums instigated by the people, not by politicians

c. the ability of our people to recall our leadership or any MP back to election to instill accountability

I refuse to join either party and "work my way up the ladder" as many propose. I feel that our island no longer has the luxury of time. Solutions need to be brought now, not 10 years from now.

I can guarantee you that neither party will accept these terms because both are power hungry and put their own interests before those of the people.

Until either party pursues the course of true democracy, I will continue on my own personal tirade to rally the youth to have a voice and give our people independence from government.

Neither party has nor represents the voice of the youth and we should no longer remain silent.

[sleepy on 13.03.06 at 11:07]

Stuart, I hear you on the self-censure aspect to Parliament, but resignations happened in Bermuda under the UBP on a number of occasions, all justified. But I can list of any number of times it should have happened in the PLP era and it simply hasn't.

I don't mind the recall idea, but it's cumbersome and slow-moving. A strong Premier wouldn't want the stench of wrongdoing in their cabinet and would kick out the perpetrators rather than risk a loss of confidence and integrity.

[Denis Pitcher on 13.03.06 at 11:13]

Sleepy,

Exactly on the recall idea. If it were simply possible to petition to recall our government, it would kick the Premier in the pants to do something about perpetrators rather then just sit back and let it all happen. Because if he were complacent, it would result in his whole party being recalled as opposed to just a few members being booted.

[SmokingGun on 13.03.06 at 11:55]

Recall? How about raising the bar a little higher. If you are holding a political position and you blatantly abuse it for personal gain why bother with a recall, what's wrong with some straight up jail time?

Unless we get our two parties working together to increase the pool of useful talent stepping up for the island on a regular basis people will continue try to figure out how to wrestle control out of the one party winner takes all approach.

If I were a politician in Bermuda I would definitely suggest we use referenda for all our major programs and projects. Either that or we elect a benevolent dictator based on the people's trust. You want schools? You got schools. You want drugs off the street, you got it. You want housing? Here you go.

[stuart J Hayward on 13.03.06 at 12:28]

Sleepy writes:
“Stuart, I hear you on the self-censure aspect to Parliament, but resignations happened in Bermuda under the UBP on a number of occasions, all justified. But I can list of any number of times it should have happened in the PLP era and it simply hasn't.”

I do recall one or two UBP resignations. Unfortunately, the PLP are very like a horse that has got the bit in its teeth.

I have the sense that the Brits are sticklers for procedure and for following the rules (even the unwritten ones) — a sort of cultural norm. This adherence to the rules may have been shared by earlier UBP administrations but was in decline, for example, when there was no sanction for the perceived improprieties in Jim Woolridge’s purchase and sale of a Wreck Hill property while he was, as I recall, a member of Cabinet. The reality is that currently parliament is supreme and, other than replacing one bunch with another (a choice outside the power of any individual voter, and often a throw of the dice for voters at large), the electorate is powerless, no matter who forms the government.

"I don't mind the recall idea, but it's cumbersome and slow-moving. A strong Premier wouldn't want the stench of wrongdoing in their cabinet and would kick out the perpetrators rather than risk a loss of confidence and integrity.”

My point exactly. Whether it is the Premier or the electorate that “kicks out perpetrators”, the caliber of the Cabinet is raised a few notches. I don't mind it being a slow, deliberated process as little is done well in a hurry...

[what's in a name on 13.03.06 at 12:45]

The biggest problem is that the MP's constituency is so small that they really don't do anything for the people they supposly represent in the house. I've never seen the MP for my neck of the woods, never heard what there're doing for the area, not even a notice in my mailbox. As a result people don't vote for someone who might do good, despite their party, but vote right along party lines, which is then defined along racial lines, whites - UBP, blacks - PLP.

Another thing is I just don't think our best and brightest go into politics, who'd want the trouble.

[Bermudian on 13.03.06 at 12:50]

Can you please explain the urgency for having fixed period elections?

I completely understand their importance and I'm all for having it implemented, but some of you are making it seem as if the current method is being abused in some way. The PLP didn't call an early election in 2003 and it sure doesn't look like they're gonna do it this time around, essentially making it fixed period anyway.

So why are you making it seem as if the current way of doing things is being abused in some way? It's not.

[dude on 13.03.06 at 13:02]

I was reading sandgrownan where he said he wonders why the politicians don't think they should be held to the same standards as everyone else. I think you have to look at the people we've had as politicians. With the UPB, especially in the heyday of the 40 thieves you had guys from millionaire families that had been running the polictical machine of Bermuda for the last 300 years. All the doors have always been open for them here, so why should they conform to the same rules as the plebs. With the PLP the people in power now come from the late 1960s, and 1970s, when blacks were striving for equallity. I think there're kind of stuck in that period, and now think that they've finally gained power from the white elite, and aren't going to let a little thing like democracy get in there way in doing whatever they want, I really believe they think they are above the law and are entitled to do whatever they want. I know these are generalizations, but there's something in it.

[silencedogood on 13.03.06 at 13:20]

I think recall and referenda are good suggestions.

Elected senators also.

I would suggest looking to strengthen the separation of powers.

Perhaps a public right to petition independent investigation into the (mis)use of public funds?

Perhap strengthening the auditor general's role?

Perhaps greater oversight of policy by the judiciary as in the bermdian-non-bermudian land transfer policy?

Greater powers for the opposition, whomever that might be, would probably be a plus.

Government may run slower under a changed system, but that's not an entirely bad thing as long as the end product is good for everyone.

[Denis Pitcher on 13.03.06 at 13:32]

Dude,

I agree with you there, even if your statements are mass generalizations.

The PLP was to be the people's party, though I havn't found this to be true. One quote I've enjoyed musing over is when my cousin suggested that "the PLP is trying to out UBP the UBP".

The UBP certainly won't support real democracy because they're already in line to win the next election, purely by default. They'll of course throw us a few bones in the fashion of suggesting they'll put a few issues to referendum and have set terms in office, but they won't give up the power.

I'm wondering when it is that we're going to see a revolution either outside of both parties or within the PLP. Certainly there are good and honourable members of the PLP who will wake up one morning and realise their ship and their country is sinking and their letting it happen.

I'm hoping we'll see the present party leadership get ousted and a reversion back to the principles and ideas that made the PLP worth voting for.

I'm waiting to see a party that is actually for the people, not for themselves.

[Triggerfish on 13.03.06 at 14:12]

"Ben Nunn alleged that financiers are the ones who control politics ... I wasn’t quite sure how this was relevant to the discussion."

Who is Ben Nunn? How is *he* relevant to the discussion? Not being dismissive -- but I've never heard of the man. Just curious as to a). how he came to be included in a political panel discussion featuring a slate of household names and b). what his background/credentials are ...

[Shark on 13.03.06 at 14:50]

Denis

I agree until either party shows to have the interests of the youth at heart, neither is worth considering.

I’m just sad I couldn’t be there and give my thoughts in the open forum but as I am a student getting a ticket to Bermuda and staying for a day then heading back to the UK to start uni again on Monday is a bit difficult.

While thier probaly are honourable members of the PLP I fear they may be to weak to oppose the PM and is inner cirule.

[Denis Pitcher on 13.03.06 at 15:29]

Shark,

It is my belief that the honourable members of the PLP should take a serious look at their fellow members and make a decision.

If they cannot oppose the inner circle that represents our present poor leadership then they need to be willing to make the sacrafice for the greater good and split off to run either as independents or to form a new party.

Until we have a mass exodus from both parties of the quality candidates who actually care more about Bermuda's future then themselves we will likely never see change.

Otherwise it will take a revolution in the form of unknowns and independents, or as Julian Hall suggests, civil unrest, to drive things forward.

[Michael Taylor on 13.03.06 at 15:30]

I have no desire to see elected senators, but I am not really against it either. If we were to change the senate selection procedure, the current ratios of government/opposition/independent representation should be preserved. The main purpose of our senate is to be an impartial body to safeguard against potential abuse of the House of Assembly by a majority government. When one considers the practical difficulties of electing a senate by popular vote while retaining its current political balance it seems no wonder we just appoint them.

[Rossini on 13.03.06 at 15:52]

Triggerfish your comments pertain to the entire panel. A bevy of losers, wanna be's...only in Bermuda would we elevate such idle people and their rantings to the level of gospel. What a joke....by the way being a household name does not mean you should be allowed in anyone's household.

[Triggerfish on 13.03.06 at 15:55]

"What a joke....by the way being a household name does not mean you should be allowed in anyone's household."

I have some sympathy with your jaded views as they apply to one or two of the panellists, Rossini ... ;) But still, can you fill in the blanks for me on Ben Nunn? Is he a has-been or a never-was? For the life of me I've never heard of the man ...

[Uncle Elvis on 13.03.06 at 16:07]

Tom Vesey's a loser? A wanna-be?
Julian Hall, too?
AND Stuart Hayward?

Really?

AND idle? All of them?

Wow. Ok. I didn't know that.

So, yeah. Let's shut everyone up that wants to speak out. Buncha whiners.
Mr. Hayward, no more trying to help, ok?
Mr. Pitcher, keep yer mouth shut, you idle wanna-be.
Mr. Hall, Stop showing you give a shit about Bermuda.
Mr. Vesey, you might as well just quit your job. You're not allowed in my household any more.

Sheesh

[Denis Pitcher on 13.03.06 at 16:12]

Rossini,

Perhaps you may be correct. However last time I checked no other political group or forum has the vocal support of young Bermudians under the age of 30.

If your claim is that I am a wanna-be I can assure you that I would much rather not get into politics. I have quite a bit of potential in terms of the business world and any forey into politics will likely hold me back and be quite a sacrafice for the low pay and low returns.

The difference however, is that I, as a well-educated intelligent young Bermudian am one of few who can actually afford to survive and have a future in today's Bermuda. I have achieved quite alot in my 24 years, more so then most and mostly on my own.

I listen to and look around at my colleagues, my friends, my cousins and other young Bermudians who are being royally shafted by our present leadership.

I for one feel somebody has to stand up and do something about our government because nobody else seems to care to do so. While everybody loves to talk and complain about it, few are interested in putting action behind their words.

Perhaps you are right however and I am just a wanna-be. Perhaps I should be just like our leaders and think only of myself.

[Triggerfish on 13.03.06 at 16:18]

Before y'all go off on one of your regular blood lettings, could somebody please answer my question? Who is Ben Nunn? What is his background? What are his credentials for discussing the overhauling of Bermuda's political system? Thank you.

[Shark on 13.03.06 at 16:21]

Denis

Dont listen to Rossani, it is clear Rossani is a vocal PLP supporter and anyone who the PLP sees as a trouble maker is not worth anything or there opinons dont count. Remember that Rossani is scared by something that has happened in the past or has sufferd during segregation or race hating (how old is Rossani again?) as most people who slam anyone that criticises the PLP are.

[SmokingGun on 13.03.06 at 16:23]

I believe Ben Nunn is an Architect and has something to do with the Bermuda Folk Club.

[Uncle Elvis on 13.03.06 at 16:27]

Is Mr. Nunn Bermudian?

If so, in my completely unhumble opinion, that's all the credentials he needs to speak out and try to help creating the Bermuda we all want and need.
Hell, even if he's married to a Bermudian, or is an ex-pat, as long as he gives a shit about here and us and his home, here in Bermuda, that gives him the right to try to help and try to right wrongs as he perceives them.

Having said that, you're right. Who the heck is he? *grin*

[SmokingGun on 13.03.06 at 16:31]

Uncle E - isn't he the same guy who has to call you each year to play your dues? ;)

[Uncle Elvis on 13.03.06 at 16:33]

Dues? For what? I have a hairdue, but that's the only one I can think of... *grin*

[Triggerfish on 13.03.06 at 17:01]

"I believe Ben Nunn is an Architect and has something to do with the Bermuda Folk Club."

OK. Thanks.

[Shark on 13.03.06 at 17:26]

probally read to fast my mistake.

[Denis Pitcher on 13.03.06 at 17:34]

Disclaimer: the following is all hearsay from my own recollection and I neither confirm nor deny anything stated here and am only repeating it as per discussions sake. I have limited or no knowledge in the subject matter and make no claims to their validity.

I spoke with Mr. Nunn both prior to and following the forum.

According to what I recall, though don't quote me on it, he is a Bermudian with a background in engineering.

He apparently has ownership in a number of businesses internationally and I think he said he'd attended MIT through video schooling, something I've never heard of. He has homes throughout the US and is self sufficient and has no debt.

The focus of his discussion was on the global political picture and how it influences local. His interests fell in the exposing of a number of unknown "truths", as he called it, about Bermuda's position in the world government and the "new world order".

If you've ever followed any conspiracy theory arguments (My limited familiarity comes from my brief interest and subsequent research following reading "The Bible Code") you'll be familiar with what he's referring to when he talks about the Rockafellers, The Freemasons, Rothschild and global political powers. It is proposed by various theorists (I'm unsure what else to call them) that these individuals have held a part in many major world events and represent a group who controls a large portion of the money and power worldwide.

He focused on outlining details of ownership in HSBC and other businesses (you can note that many of the above mentioned do have presenses in Bermuda) and their interests in Bermuda. He also linked HSBC's ties to terrorists in some fashion and law suits from 911 families against the bank.

He suggested that with HSBC's acquisition of the Bank of Bermuda, that HSBC has now acquired not only direct ownership of property in Bermuda, but also control over and the potential acquisition of property through the power to recind mortgages that have been defaulted upon.

If Bermuda's economy were to ever collapse, HSBC could become a principle owner of property in Bermuda as it would foreclose on mortgages unpayable by Bermudians.

He expressed the viewpoint that one should question our present government's ties to this organization and what it's intentions are on a more global level.

That if Bermudians can no longer sell homes to non-Bermudians, what does that mean? What also does it mean if we go independent and our island's economy intentionally collapses? If that happens, what impact will it have on the ability of Bermudians to recoup their debt in terms of mortgages?

Could this indicate a conspiracy to acquire a large portion of land in Bermuda by larger forces?

I would like to close by restating my own disclaimer that these are not my views, I do not support nor deny them and only present them because they are the views expressed by Mr. Nunn and he proposes interesting questions to say the least.

Whatever faith you put in his arguements is purely up to you.

[SmokingGun on 13.03.06 at 17:44]

Denis/Limey - Were these expressions made publicly at the forum? If not then we should consider them for what they are, second hand conjecture as Mr. Nunn has not stated them himself.

On the other hand the whole idea about HSBC ending up owning Bermuda is not at all unfeasible. It was the one particular thing that I had against Bermuda changing it's laws to allow foreign ownership of the Bank of Bermuda in the first place. Just look at how they are handling the whole issue of building seven stories on Front Street. It's proof we have a total and utter sham government if they allow it to go through.

[Denis Pitcher on 13.03.06 at 17:52]

Back to my own personal views.

I for one would wholly be in support of a PLP who put the interests of the people first, I do not feel they are doing so at present and only ask that they do. If Rossani and other PLP supporters want to condemn me for that simple view, then that is their right. That is the true beauty of freedom of speech, however I will defend my arguements and my position.

I for one don't like the whole racism arguement. I certainly did not like being told by my own family that the reason why I was getting ahead and working in a nice big office in IB was because I was lighter skinned then my cousins. This while I'd been busting my butt since the age of 12 to get experience with computers and was working 3 jobs at the time to be able to pay for my university expenses. The fact that I'd contacted 450 companies and did 18 job interviews in the week I was back from school in order to get that job. None of those companies knew the color of my skin when they invited me in for an interview. They judged me based upon the quality of my resume.

I find it terribly unfortunate that my cousins have been told that they will never make it anywhere because of the color of their skin. Thus they have never tried. I am the first of my family to graduate from university and sadly some of my cousins have never pursued the same opportunities.

I am fighting for those young Bermudians who are constantly living in the shadow of previous generations. Though I do not deny the tribulations of those who had to live through segregation and have had to suffer racial injustices.

Our youth are falling away, especially our Black youth because the attitude we've got is - don't try, you'll have to work 10 times as hard then if you were white. So rather then capitalize on the wealth of opportunity available to us they take it as an excuse to skip out on working hard to get somewhere and instead take the seemingly easy route into crime and drugs.

I refuse to sit back and watch this happen to our people. We are too smart, too capable and too talented. All we really need to do is apply ourselves and have a little hope in the fact that things may not change instantly, but they do change!

As my father has always told me in an incredibly annoying cliche. How do you spell success? W.O.R.K.

[Shark on 13.03.06 at 17:58]

Got my full support, the youth cant sit back and remain apathetic anylonger.

[Denis Pitcher on 13.03.06 at 18:01]

SmokingGun,

Mr. Nunn had been alotted 2 minutes to speak in which he spoke for 5 and would have continued if he had not been silenced for going over his alloted time. Much of what I suggest is what he attempted to cover in those 5 minutes.

Khalid had suggested that Mr. Nunn had truly wanted to be a primary speaker however do to the number of speakers, he assigned him the role of being a questioner/commentator only.

What I found most interesting was the attendence of a self professed former drug dealer who used to eminate the life of a gangster and run through the streets fighting with and wielding a machete.

He suggested that he attended the forum because he is in the process of bettering his life and choosing a better path for himself. He also suggested that many other youth and Bermudians of similar stature told him not to attend because these things are a waste of time.

He expressed his personal dissatisfaction at having unsuccessfully tried some 11 times over the last 2 years to arrange a meeting with Randy Horton. He expressed the view as a black Bermudian having lived a life of crime and been in jail that he voted the PLP in and they have done nothing but divide our people and pit blacks against blacks.

[Uncle Elvis on 13.03.06 at 18:03]

You make some good points, Mr. Pitcher.

Is there a self-fulfilling prophecy in the "You won't get ahead because you're black" thing?
I can see how there would be. I can see how that could happen.
The question, then, is:
How do we counteract this, while staying true to remembering the past and the injustices that occurred? How do we acknowledge the injustices occurring now without sending a message of "You can't do it"?

I'm not sure how it can be done, but I'd like to try to help if anyone has any ideas.

[SmokingGun on 13.03.06 at 18:06]

"What I found most interesting was the attendence of a self professed former drug dealer who used to eminate the life of a gangster and run through the streets fighting with and wielding a machete."

Denis - I'm a little confused. You went from Mr. Nunn to this. Are you speaking of the same person or someone different?

[SmokingGun on 13.03.06 at 18:11]

"How do we counteract this, while staying true to remembering the past and the injustices that occurred? How do we acknowledge the injustices occurring now without sending a message of "You can't do it"?"

Uncle E. It's simple. You lead by example. Unfortunately there has not been enough focus on the great examples that are out there. Get people into good schools and show them the world.

[Denis Pitcher on 13.03.06 at 18:13]

I'll tell you how. By recognizing the injustices and doing them justice.

Limey had a great idea a while back that not one individual has capitalized on. That was that blacks who feel they have been targeted via racism could voice their story via his site. It's amazing to hear of all the blacks who trumpet the fact that they're not accepted in white groups, yet when an opportunity like this presents itself, they are unwilling to take it, even anonymously.

We need to follow through with this kind of idea.

Here is what we do:

1. We create a "Recognition and Reconsiliation" committee
2. We hire young Bermudian summer students and equip them with video cameras, tape recorders and notebooks
3. We send them island wide to ask people from door to door if they would contribute to the compilation of a national archive
4. Individuals would be invited to personally recollect their stories and experiences from the times of segregation and what they've endured under racism - from all sides, black, white, portuguese and other - Bermudian is all thats needed
5. We compile all of these works to create
a. a book of pictures and stories outlining our history
b. a website dedicated to the publication of every piece of collected material
c. a video that can be put onto dvd
6. We log every piece of information and put it into a national archive so that we can never forget our past and what injustices were done.

From all I can gather, most of what people want is just some recognition for what happened to them.

This is the best idea I can propose and our leadership from both sides should be funding and promoting it if we ever want to move foward.

[Denis Pitcher on 13.03.06 at 18:18]

SmokingGun,

Sorry, should have made it a separate post.

I was referring to a separate individual. Mr. Nunn was a white guy with ties to Bermuda through his fathers involvement US base if I'm not mistaken. He wore a texan style two string tie that was quite unmistakeable as I recall.

The other individual who I will not name was a Bermudian likely in his 40s, who described that he was there because he did not want to see his children go through the same life he went through.

He described how he has taken to attending friday night youth group sessions at churches to tell youth about the gangster life, time in jail, drugs and why that life isn't a good one.

His biggest complaint was why our government, people who trumpet about being for blacks, will not only not help him when he and others like him are desperately asking for help, but will continue to ignore them despite constant attempts to attain an audience for what is approaching 2 years.

This is our government.

[SmokingGun on 13.03.06 at 18:32]

Thanks Denis. I'm very glad that the gentleman you are talking about has seeked out alternative avenues such as your forum. It will help keep him on track for the benefit of his kids. He is an example of how people can change the ways things are done. Personally and publicly.

Randy - one more reason why I'm not going back to buying your Rum cakes anytime soon. Eleven times over two years and you can't find time to hear the man?

[Denis Pitcher on 13.03.06 at 18:42]

The sad thing was, the guy got passionate about voicing his frustrations.

He had voiced his past, was big and intimidating and mistakenly raised his voice when he was simply trying to get his point across so he was cut short.

As I have had quite a bit of experience bouncing in clubs and am no small man myself, I approached him following and got a bit of his story. It is stories like his that should get more attention.

I think you've helped inspire me to try to call him up and conduct my own interview of his experiences and write up an article for the paper, if they'll accept it.

It is these kind of people who our government should be listening to yet are not. They represent those who will likely fuel social unrest if their concerns are not heard because they represent the very people who run our streets and the position many of our youth find themselves in.

[stuart J Hayward on 13.03.06 at 18:51]

Ahhhh SmokingGun,
We have heard, second hand, only one side of the story, yet you so quickly condemn "Randy" Horton. The young man Denis referred to was also very aggressive, accusatory and dismissive (even to the forum's speakers) in his manner at the forum. I can't help but wonder if this has affected his reception.

[stuart J Hayward on 13.03.06 at 18:54]

Denis,
I admire your spirit, and wish you success.