Shutting down LiB

I'm not quite sure what Government backbencher Renee Webb was getting at yesterday when she noted that the Government has the right to shut down a website if its content is offensive (in the public interest, of course). But I was flattered that she singled me out for mention:

"If Limey in Bermuda is being offensive then bring it to the attention of the Minister and action will be taken."

Perhaps she was making the point that the Government has no need for its own TV station when it already has the power to silence its critics if they present untruths as fact.

However I'd like to point out that this site is not hosted in Bermuda, and as such the Government has no direct control over it. While I'm aware that, just like a newspaper, I could be sued for publishing anything libellous, I doubt that the Government could shut me down for simply being offensive. After all, then they'd have to shut down Col. Burch's radio show too.

Instead, perhaps the Government should consider the feasibility of getting the Island's ISPs to block this site. I hear the Chinese government is doing something similar to muzzle its critics, and it seems to be working for them.

Comments

[observor on 02.03.06 at 14:15]

Limey

I just read that while having lunch at my desk!! Yet another example of the current government's insatiable desire to kill the messenger instead of honestly tackling the message.

FYI - have a look at the members of the broadcast commission … not a chance this apparently impartial regulator will ever dispute what will undoubtedly become political broadcasts airing on GOVTV, which of course will be paid for by taxpayers like you and me!

[Tiger Bay on 02.03.06 at 14:22]

It strikes me that Renee's quote is marooned without context. Was she speaking out against the Gov propaganda channel?

[Simon on 02.03.06 at 14:30]

I expect Ms Webb's comment was just a general comment about offensive publications and what legislation allows You should feel honoured that LiB was mentioned - it's obviously the best known website in Bermuda!!

[JimmyJohn on 02.03.06 at 14:39]

Does anyone else see the amazing similarities between Alex and the PLP and Castro's regime in Cuba? Scary. I know we sell Cuban cigars and all but WTF! Shut down LIB? What are they kidding?

[SmokingGun on 02.03.06 at 14:47]

Limey I think you should be taking her a little more seriously. After all when they get the Government TV show up and running they are going to want to control any live debate as to what they have to say and you are pretty much the game in town. It's just a matter of wanting to shut down the competition. In fact I just noticed a few new web-sites being quietly registered.....

DrBrownKnowsBermuda.com
bermudalookslikeme.com
aBermudianinBermuda.com
LimeyGoHome.com
aKinginBermuda.com
aintthathalfthetruth.com

[Shark on 02.03.06 at 14:48]

Trying to shut down a site as well known as LIB or any otrher independent media outlet would be political sucide for the ladership of the PLP and the party so dont worry about it its just the PLP trying to flex its muscles.

[SmokingGun on 02.03.06 at 14:50]

"If Limey in Bermuda is being offensive then bring it to the attention of the Minister and action will be taken."

That in of itself is pretty offensive.

[Zoom on 02.03.06 at 14:55]

Action by the Government? Anyone else giggling? However it is a good reason not to use a .bm address which is the one little bit of the internet they do control.

[silencedogood on 02.03.06 at 15:05]

With all the debate recently about paranoia regarding the PLP this is a very timely topic. Maybe now people who generally support the "current administration" can understand more why people don't trust them.

They may have realized some posters are soft on free speech after reading the Danish open mike. ;)

I doubt it will happen, but the suggestion itself is unsettling. Don't let them intimidate you Phil!

[George Orwell on 02.03.06 at 15:42]

Unbelievable! $840,000 for a government television station when scores of Bermudians are without affordable housing! This is almost as bad as the $11 million for Bermuda's prima donna cricketers or the massive proposed pay hikes for MPs.

Mr. Premier if you read this, and judging by Ms. Webbe's comments you do, then be assured the message that you should be broadcasting in an "unmediated and unedited" fashion is not one that can be transmitted on a television. Rather it is one that you portray by your actions. Come clean about Berkeley, deal with Col. Burch and the rest of the loose cannons on the hill, deal with your own racist issues.

I applaud the opposition leaders charismatic response. THis charisma from the UBP is long overdue.

Ms. Webb, I suggest you enjoy your stay. I feel the only action that is going to be taken is against your regime at the next election. LIB will outlast you!

[Tong on 02.03.06 at 15:52]

that is a little creepy in a sort of watch yourself cuz we're watching you kind of way.

Does someone have the full content of the text just to get the context in which this statement was made?

[NoVote on 02.03.06 at 15:55]

I'm tempted to put in a complaint so that we can have a laugh watching them try to shut LIB down!

These muppets certainly do have delusions of grandeur!!

[Uncle Elvis on 02.03.06 at 15:59]

NoVote,

I was thinking along the same lines, but I figger that someone will do it any way.
Wasn't that the idea behind singling this site out like that, anyway? To get someone to complain?

[NoVote on 02.03.06 at 16:05]

The other interesting thing about the article in the Royal Gazette was the amount of opposition to the government TV channel.

The government wants to introduce it to get its message across directly. There is apparently concern about bias and censorship by the local media.

The reality is that the public won't waste its time watching whatever drivel gets produced by this government channel.

However, I suspect the local media will though, so that it can pick-off yet more juicy nuggets, with which to ridicule this incompetent government.

[Simon on 02.03.06 at 16:06]

Surely the new channel can't be worse than Fresh TV

[RedOnion on 02.03.06 at 16:08]

After the free publicity for LIB, readership is sure to go up. This sounds similar to the comment about "allowing" Julian Hall to have the right to free speech.

Any attempt to force the local ISP's to block access to this site will backfire on the Government for sure. There are so many ways around it, it can still be read in other countries, it can be mirrored on any number of other sites, but most importantly the public will see a classic case of censorship by the government that will easily be compared to communist China.

[Bill Cook on 02.03.06 at 16:25]

I think it was meant to intimidate.

It would be interesting to see any attempt to interfere with free speech.

I have little doubt that there are those who would be deelited to see LiB closed, its not that difficult to figure out who !

[Uncle Elvis on 02.03.06 at 16:27]

"Surely the new channel can't be worse than Fresh TV"

Is there any such thing as "worse than FreshTV"?

Like... isn't that the very definition of "worst possible thing ever" with relation to TV?

[Zoom on 02.03.06 at 16:28]

To put it bluntly, they have SFA capability to shut down this website. Moreover to do so would attract the ire of a multitude of free speech advocates around the world ... hell hath no fury like a blogger censored ... like Bermuda needs any more bad publicity caused by our government.

That being vented, Renee's comment is enigmatic without context.

[Simon on 02.03.06 at 16:33]

I agree, I don't think Renee meant anything sinister by her comments. And here is someone who wouldn't trust a politician as far as he could throw one!

[Bermuda Nut Speech Forum on 02.03.06 at 16:38]

Acegirl just reminded me that Renee is just savoring the memory of chewing off Tony Brannon's ass to shut down the crazed forums on Bermuda.com

[Rossini on 02.03.06 at 16:39]

Let's not forget that this is the same person who said she'd like to take down the portraits in the House of Assembly.....that hasn't happened so don't waste your time whining about this one. Pick someone that can actually do something to be afraid of.

[Uncle Elvis on 02.03.06 at 16:40]

Couple of things...

First, what's SFA capability?

Second, is there an actual law or something in the constitution that gives them this power? Is she, in fact, talking out of her ass?

What recourse does she actually have, legally?

Just curious.

[Simon on 02.03.06 at 16:41]

Sweet F All, Elvis

[Tong on 02.03.06 at 16:41]

If her intentions are not to intimidate then that was just a stupid thing to say which is worse. Especially when you are trying to push forward how Govt doesn't get a fair whack from the media so they want their own forum.

[Bill Cook on 02.03.06 at 16:44]

Uncle clue! Sweet FA

[Tong on 02.03.06 at 16:47]

aren't their laws about Government broadcasting things?

[ace on 02.03.06 at 16:49]

Is there any such thing as "worse than FreshTV"?

lol

I found it very interesting that while channel surfing last night I came across Fresh TV. There was a message on the screen about an accident on Court Street and that service would be interupted until it was fixed. They must have been running a taped show or something in the background.

What I found absolutely INCREDIBLE was that:

1. I could actually READ what was on the screen and

2. I could actually make out the video they were playing in the background.

Whatever that accident on Court Street was it IMPROVED the quality of the reception.

Go figure.

[Bill Cook on 02.03.06 at 16:50]

Her bark is worse than her bite.

She is surprisingly popular with quite a few female UBP supporters.

But she can be agressive as members of tourist board found out where she was perhaps less popular !!

[Uncle Elvis on 02.03.06 at 16:51]

SFA... gotcha...

"Acegirl just reminded me that Renee is just savoring the memory of chewing off Tony Brannon's ass to shut down the crazed forums on Bermuda.com"

Wait.. what happened now?

[SmokingGun on 02.03.06 at 17:09]

Actually, I think this is all Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr.'s fault.

You can't have staunch supporters of the PLP going around undermining the party by demanding they do the job they were hired to do in some public forum that's so obviously a bastion of UBP Gobble Dee Gook.

[Yummy on 02.03.06 at 17:12]

I always thought TB took the forums down when he started to sell the domain?

Could they not just use the Portal to deliver the messages of our Government? Or is there a difference between the Government Portal and the new television station? Ok, admittedly, they'd actually have to get the portal working before they could do that.

[thisgrassman on 02.03.06 at 17:21]

Those nice fat salary increases they all just got up on de hill - they should be buying themselves some thicker skins with that extra coin.

[Raptor on 02.03.06 at 17:23]

F---ing unbelievable.

[Uncle Elvis on 02.03.06 at 17:35]

Raptor, you kill me. Two words and you sum it up.

[J Starling on 02.03.06 at 17:47]

Honestly, I think that although the comment as it is quoted is certainly provocative, I doubt it was meant as intimidating as it appears. Without knowing the context she spoke in, none of us can be sure. Knowing the technique of our parliamentarians I reckon that the UBP had made a comment about offensive content on the Government TV station, would it be accountable to the public, should a member of the public complain, would it be followed up and so on. Ms. Webb most likely responded in jest, with a small slight against LiB, percieved to be pro-UBP by some PLPers (simply because it is critical of the Party Leadership) with the quote as seen in the Gazette. I am willing to accept it as a purely flippant comment. The media thrives on sensationalism and controversy and no doubt thought this would be a useful tidbit. Our parliamentary debates are full of these flippant diatribes and schoolboy jest, on both sides of the house. While we should all (PLP and UBP) oppose any obvious threats to freedom of expression (A ban of PLP criticism is equally a ban of UBP criticism), I don't think we should worry ourselves overmuch on this nonsense. At most, one could say that Ms. Webb is feeling her position within the Party vulnerable (it is no secret the Leadership isn't exactly happy with her) and is trying to appease the leadership with silly comments like this.

[Phil on 02.03.06 at 18:16]

I too am inclined to think that Ms. Webb didn't intend her comments as a threat. Nevertheless, it was still a bit of a silly thing to say.

RedOnion

Any attempt to force the local ISP's to block access to this site will backfire on the Government for sure.

I was being ironic. I don't think the Government would consider that for a minute.

Would they?

Bermuda Nut Speech Forum

Acegirl just reminded me that Renee is just savoring the memory of chewing off Tony Brannon's ass to shut down the crazed forums on
Bermuda.com

The idea that Renee Webb was responsible for the closure of the forums on Bermuda.com is a myth. Tony has told me himself that he chose to ditch the forums following pressure from his advertisers, some of whom did not want to be associated with the controversial comments on there.

Yet another reason why I don't have advertising on here. :-)

[Shark on 02.03.06 at 18:16]

Over here in the UK its called punch and judy politics (which makes PM questions always a laufe).

[Full Fullish on 02.03.06 at 18:20]

Hmmmm, interesting. Phil, I would email Renee and ask her directly what she implied.

As far as Government suddenly having the ability to quash free speech, as I said before, it's somewhere they really don't want to go. As long as you aren't being slanderous, nothing can be done about it.

[SmokingGun on 02.03.06 at 18:30]

Actually J Starling brings up a good point. This postering by Renee may just be to show the Party that she can run with the big dogs and draw some flak away from Ewart's recent Plantation commentary on LiB. Put a little spin out in the printed press. Which isn't at all fair to Limey because the thousands of people who have never been on Limey will automatically assume that there must be some offensive stuff here. Nice little cheap shot.

She's willing to flex a little muscle over what might be deemed offensive language on a private web-site. Hmmm, pity she can't flex a little muscle over what an offensive lawyer can say in a court room....

[Raptor on 02.03.06 at 18:32]

Here we are this past week, wrestling with issues of free speech over the Danish cartoons offending Muslims around the world; about the truly nasty nut-brain Irving getting locked up in Austria; about Castro and his crap treatment of black Cubans; about China censoring Google. Who among us would want to live in an environment where government is pouring sugar in our gas tanks, shutting down dialog?

The thing with Irving was hard for me. He is doing evil stuff. But free speech has to come first. I believe different religions should be respected, but free speech needs to be maintained.

P., put out a party newspaper—(the party pays for that), if that’s what you need. As Maxwell Burgess said, “[a government TV station] is simply not what Government funds are meant for.”

Wayne Furbert is right about pulling the plug on such nonsense.

The interesting thing to me is that Alex Scott is not getting “sound-bites” so much. He’s actually getting a lot of fairly in-depth coverage. His press IS covering his “practice.” The problem is his practice isn’t so hot.

How about holding press conferences? That’s direct and unmediated. How about parish meetings?

And he’s likening this proposed station to PBS and the BBC? Oh, oh, oh. It’s worse than I thought.

Very interesting that they said apparently nothing about allowing the Opposition into this private fiefdom.

Renee Webb’s comments to suggest “action will be taken” against a blog that is trying to “get Bermuda talking” are genuinely backward. Starling, that’s not the kind of thing a person with governmental responsibility should say in “jest” or in “appeasement” of her leaders, or be “flippant” about. Freedom of speech?! Actually, the context makes her comments more worrisome. Just what is it about:

“Government backbencher Renee Webb said Government had the right to shut down any website if it showed anything offensive, in the public interest. 'If Limey in Bermuda is being offensive then bring it to the attention of the Minister and action will be taken,' she said.”

--that is light-hearted?

P, you do the job right, you don’t have to worry about any of this stuff. You'll get good press, really.

[It Does Matter on 02.03.06 at 19:50]

Forget the PLP government:

How about I get rid of Limey in Bermuda?

[SmokingGun on 02.03.06 at 19:52]

???

[Slowhand on 02.03.06 at 20:47]

"Trying to shut down a site as well known as LIB.... would be political sucide..."

Yeah!... You could liken that to someone getting caught in a 'pay to play' scandle...

nope.... maybe not,

Maybe more like getting caught at 'cronyism', hooking up your ace boys with juicy jobs on a sweet capital project deal, and creating massive cost overuns....

Nah.... thats not a good example either

Oh... maybe its comparable to insulting over 50% of the number of the electorate that voted in the last election... surely thats a good example of political suicide?

Better still....

How about using racial invective in public, on the public airwaves and via digital transmissions etc....?

Maybe we should be worried.... just a tad?

This Govt. has more lives than Wilie E Coyote

[nastyme! on 02.03.06 at 21:05]

She'd know after all her bio says "she has become an internationally recognized authority and lecturer in the world of E-Commerce". She also writes poetry. Probably knits with Colonel Burch too. Sensitive you know.

[stuart J Hayward on 02.03.06 at 21:27]

Bill Cook writes: "I think it was meant to intimidate.
It would be interesting to see any attempt to interfere with free speech.
I have little doubt that there are those who would be deelited to see LiB closed, its not that difficult to figure out who !"

I was actually listening to the debate broadcast when Renee Webb made the comment. There was nothing threatening to LIB in particular. As I recall, she was referring to govt's responsibility for keeping the media from going overboard. I got the sense that she named lib because that's the only one she could think of.

It will be good to remember that Ms Webb doesn't speak for the government. She is no longer in Cabinet and is not missed by many of those who remain, especially the males. Her views on many topics are not shared by the policy makers and are unlikely to become policy. Typically, Ms Webb's saucy streak outruns her good sense. Also typically, some in the media singled out the remark for special attention.

It can now become a convenient round of ammunition in the belts of the anti-govt gunslingers. However, more rational minds will, as some have already, want to read this comment of Ms. Webb in the context of all she had to say — and hold off on judgment until then. Meanwhile, those of you invoking "Cuba" and "Castro" would do well to desist. You can bet that Ms. Webb is no mouthpiece for Premier Scott. It is likely that he also is quietly gloating that her words have got her in trouble again.

[Reality@Bermudasucks on 02.03.06 at 21:37]

Over here at Bermuda Sucks we're looking forward to seeing how Renee plans to discipline you, Limey. Seriously, keep up the good work. Bermuda needs the humour and discussion that blogging brings.

[Raptor on 02.03.06 at 21:47]

Stuart, but IS it "government’s responsibility for keeping the media from going overboard”? Doesn’t the law take care of that rather than a political party?

I do appreciate your perspective on Ms. Webb. I’m aware there’s no love lost there between current leadership and Ms. Webb. I do admire her advocacy for gay rights. And it could be her sauciness gets the best of her sometimes. There’s a lot to be said for a spirited woman.

On the other hand, is it really surprising that the media, any media, would single out such remarks for attention? I don’t think so. She is a Government backbencher.

“Convenient round of ammunition”? I would really be appreciative not to have to be responding to this at all, much less use it against current leadership. I am of a rational mind; that’s the “problem.” I’m waiting to read more about what she said. What’s she said so far is not comforting, to say the least.

Government cannot develop even cultural ties with Castro and Cuba, and talk about developing its own TV station, and have even a backbencher mouthing off about possibilities of censorship--and not expect to evoke a response. Why should anyone desist in the face of such a web?

[Slowhand on 02.03.06 at 21:48]

"Meanwhile, those of you invoking "Cuba" and "Castro" would do well to desist."

If she were the only one talking like that, perhaps that would be good advice. This is not the first time we have heard talk like this, and it certainly has not been limited to 'back benchers'or others not in THE MAN's good books. There are many in Government now who's mouths and words emitting from said mouths, doth outrun good sense.

[SmokingGun on 02.03.06 at 22:15]

Stuart - If I may. Isn't talk about Castro and Cuba always going to draw some sort of warm discussion? Have we really run out of people to talk to that we need to start spending more time with the likes of Fidel?

Of course we all know he's going to pass on pretty soon and that our "decision makers" want to make sure we (they) have their foot in the door so as to scoop some of the good stuff once he's gone. But hey, if that's all it's about why not just be open about it. Otherwise why the need to waste our taxpayers dollars just to develope cultural ties. We can go to Miami for Cuban culture. Heck we even have a direct flight and it won't give Washington a reason to review it's tax policies.