Pay increases for MPs

Perhaps I spoke too soon. It's beginning to seem as if the UBP's principled opposition to the proposed salary increases wasn't so principled after all. Or indeed, opposition.

Writing in Friday's Royal Gazette, Opposition Leader Wayne Furbert said:

"We as servants of the people cannot put ourselves ahead of the people. There has been no justifiable argument made to the people of this country as to why their Legislators need salary increases of this magnitude in the face of so many pressing social issues. For this reason alone if there were no other, the United Bermuda Party cannot and will not endorse the recommendations."

Yet on the very same day, in the House of Assembly, backbencher Grant Gibbons said:

"Just because the Salary Review Board has made a decision does not mean we have to take it," he said, adding that a current salary of $39,000 for a MP should be increased to $60,000 – $10,000 higher than the $50,000 recommended in the Report tabled in the House last week...

Senators should make $40,000, he said, much more than the $26,000 the Board recommended.

Was Dr. Gibbons speaking for his party or himself? Mr. Furbert may not have ruled out pay rises for MPs, but the clear implication of his piece in the Gazette was that they should be lower than those recommended, not higher.

According to Shadow Attorney General Trevor Moniz, MPs last had a pay raise in 1994. But as I understand it, MPs have had cost-of-living increases since then, they've just not had an above-inflation rise.

I can see two justifications for giving MPs such a rise: either their responsibilities have increased or their job needs to be made more attractive to new recruits. I'm sceptical of the former reason, although you might argue that the move to single-seat constituencies has increased the workload on MPs. I'm more sympathetic to the latter, but I still don't think that our politicians should expect to get something for nothing.

Our politicians should offer something in return: greater accountability. They might start by cracking down on those MPs who rarely show their faces in the House of Assembly. Make attendance compulsory. After all, isn't that part of what we're paying them for? Or how about they introduce a recall mechanism to allow the public to eject incompetent or dishonest MPs before the end of their term? Without a culture of resignation, I think that's an essential component of accountability.

Wayne Furbert's piece in the Gazette did hint at the need for some reforms. He recommended a code of conduct for MPs, extra teeth for the Members' Registrar of Interests, anti-corruption legislation and a political commission to investigate and advise on democratic reform. But he did not explicitly link these to the pay increases.

If the UBP intend to accept these increases, despite their supposed opposition to them, it's the least they can do.

Comments

[SmokingGun on 21.03.06 at 20:33]

Denis - you've been watching America's Funniest Videos again. I think you have a great idea. Hey maybe we can tune into Bermuda's Funniest Videos to see how Parliament voted. Done & Done. ;)

[jake on 22.03.06 at 13:39]

The spirit of debate on this issue speaks volumes to why we have the level of representation that we have.

There are some bad apples, surely, but to demean public office as if its holders are in someway specially tainted is to ignore the plank in your own eye...you know the rest.

I would like to see better performance in the House of Assembly, but the creation of petty rules by petty people would not inspire me to put my name forward.

We don't need better rules, we need to encourage better people, and when we get them, we must treat them better so that they stay. We as a people suffer when the level of play falls to the lowest common denominator.

The suggestions above simply mean we will remain there.

[Point Finger on 22.03.06 at 13:56]

Stuart,

Thanks for your response. I remember in the early 80s we had a class trip to the hill, it was an eyeopening experience, on both sides. Sounds like it may have gotten worse.

Having the vote cast while you were in the bathroom is ridulous-is the the point I was trying to make. It seems after a certain time peroid eg 2 hours a mandatory 20 mins break should be taken.
Before the vote there should be a 15 min break-to allow final personal interaction, and a bell should sound to signal vote time so all are included and have ample time to return. Almost like a school environment.Bell for start, recess, lunch and Vote.IMHO.

[Denis Pitcher on 22.03.06 at 14:56]

SG,

Actually, I havn't watched that show since the days when it was called something different and bob saget was the host.

By done and done I was indirectly referencing that I'd recorded a number of the ideas on my forum site for discussion and whenever I get the chance, I'll add them to the people's platform I'm working to build.

Jake,

I can only argue from the perspective of whether I'd consider getting into politics and what would encourage or deter me from doing so. I'd suggest that while I'm not against the pay increases (though I believe we should get what we pay for), I believe the biggest deterrent for quality candidates isn't the pay, it's the cost of getting elected.

Running for office is quite a huge undertaking and takes a great deal of commitment in terms of time+money. Any person who has a full time job and isn't rich needs to struggle for representation. Going door to door, going on talk shows, writing articles and generally getting your name out there all takes time and energy. If you've got a full time job that you need to pay the bills, it's hard to do.

Then there's entertaining voters in the form of parties, renting out halls to gather your supporters, advertising and promoting your ideas, platform and campaign, all this takes money.

Some of the suggested ideas would help the situation quite a bit. Campaign funding sources should be publicized. Along with minutes of the parlimentary sessions and the votes cast.

Perhaps I'm much of an idealist because I'm young, but I'd rather go for a position in office where I'm accountable to the people who voted me in, and that they know and appreciate it.

I wouldn't have a problem getting paid based upon how well I'm doing my job, it means if I'm doing a good one, I can ask for more money.

Why shouldn't the public be able to recall me back to election as an MP? As the old saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I may be a young idealist now, but down the road when I've got a few battle scars and have forgotten what it's like to think of more then myself it might just be a good idea to keep me honest and in line by the public being able to fire me if I get too greedy.

From my perspective, shady policies encourage shady politicians. If we create a system of honor and good character, then why would that drive away those who are honest and of good character?

Would it not make it more inviting?

If we want the kind of people who are capable of making millions in the private sector, why do we need to force them to sacrafice it all for the greater good of public service and a measly 100k a year? Then on top of that they're supposed to donate it to charity? If they're really of top caliber, the private sector could pay them alot more. I don't see lawyers and doctors who choose not to volunteer their services donating most of their salary to charity.

I'd have no problems publicizing my government related business interests and any financing I get as a result of my position. Real simple, if the public disagreed with it, I'd offer to resign and go back to the private sector. However I feel that if I did a good enough job, the public wouldn't mind.

The ideas proposed here arn't so bad. I'd suggest that I don't have a problem with politicians making money out of the public service, as long they tell us about it and they're making the island better at the same time. If we hold on to these holyer then thou expectations of every politican, all we're going to end up with are those who can't make it in the private sector and have more to gain out of the public. In my opinion, thats not what we want.

When we end up with politicans who spend more time focusing on getting themselves ahead rather then getting our island ahead, thats when we truly suffer.

[SmokingGun on 22.03.06 at 15:35]

I have no problem with a person who takes a job in politics and declares that he/she is going to donate their pay check to charity.
But there's nothing more irritating than someone doing it and then trying to create a holier than though image and expecting others to follow suit.

Besides, I just get very suspicious of people who turn down a salary and yet still seem to be able to build a new house...

[silencedogood on 22.03.06 at 16:16]

Jake,

'splain something to me? How is it, exactly that asking for accountability in government is petty?

Doesn't everyone in the private sector have to be accountable for their performance and achievement of goals in order to get their pay increases?

I highly doubt that those willing to deal with the rough and tumble world of politics will be put off by keeping track of the sessions they attend. It's not too much to ask people to show up, act right, and stay off drugs.

[SmokingGun on 09.06.06 at 12:06]

Somewhere, someone raised the point that the pay increases being voted in for our politicians will have a dramatic effect on the cost of their future pensions. Can anyone explain exactly what the true cost that these pay raises will have on our future? As was asked, is this the real reason for the pay increases?

[Adjustah on 09.06.06 at 14:42]

So has anyone heard whether these guys voted to give themselves pay increase yet?

[myshreecents on 09.06.06 at 22:08]

Interesting debate today on the pay increases. The opposition once again completely politicized the issue speaking against it knowing fair well that the government would pass it. Wonder how many U.B.P. members will not accept the extra money.
My suggestion....
Leader Wayne Furbert donate to his church and the Anti Gay League
Cole Simons donate to the S.P.C.A.
John Baritt donate to the Bermuda Housing Trust
Jamahl Simmons donate to the N.L.P. , U.B.P, P.L.P. and any other political party. He has joined them all.
Louise Jackson donate to any seniors home.
I'm sure you get the point! If they are really against the increases... be "honourable" men and women and not take the money and run.
Ya right....they will all take the money and laugh all the way to the bank.
I'm just wondering what reaction I might see on this sight from all the P.L.P. bashers.....maybe I'll see some real opposition bashing for a change.

[Miss Politics Herself! on 09.06.06 at 23:02]

As somone who aspires to enter the political arena some day, I have no aversion to politicians who want a pay increase. Besides...politics is an ungrateful circle where constituents think they know it all and have no idea about the amount of work involved. Also, i beleive that the if you check out the credentials of the politicians, you will see that the pittance they are earning cannot compensate for what they could earn in the private sector. Seriously guys....altruism is dead...people have to live!

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 09.06.06 at 23:13]

LOL... I LOVE it... That's brilliant!

See that? Now THAT's how to justify giving yourself an insane pay raise!

[Miss Politics Herself! on 10.06.06 at 00:15]

Its called capitalism folks. Not one of you could sit in any politicians shoes and take the blows politicians take. Social problems are not simplistically fixed...even though the electorate believe that they can be!

[jsm on 10.06.06 at 00:29]

"Not one of you could sit in any politicians shoes and take the blows politicians take."

Turning this into another gay thread?

[Jamaican Q on 10.06.06 at 00:37]

I don't think its a gay thread...i do beleive that Miss Politics is trying to say that as usual, common citizens beleive they have the answers to problems plaguing societies. I beleive not. I think people look at things and feel that at the nsap of the finger they can solve the issue. People do not take into consideration that negotiation is an art. Citizens believe they can sit on their front porch and solve issues...

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 10.06.06 at 00:40]

Sit in politicians' shoes... wait.. in "politicians shoes"?

So, let me get this straight? You not only can't use the English language properly, but you also feel the need to insult and belittle citizens of Bermuda, voters, the electorate, who disagree with you?

You'll be PERFECT in Bermudian politics!

[Jamaican Q on 10.06.06 at 00:44]

Elvis that was cold...maybe it was a typo...is this the house of Parliament or what?

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 10.06.06 at 00:48]

WAAAAIT...

What makes politicians so special? What special skills do they have that I, as a voting citizen of this country, don't have? What life experiences did they have that got them these skills?

What does being a doctor have to do with Tourism? ...being a Lt. Col. have to do with Works & Engineering? ...working in the ad business have to do with leading the country? ...being on-air talent for the local news have to do with politicking?

Please... tell me what makes them so special and so well suited to run the country and what makes me so stupid and unfit to run the country?

Add to this, when did it become a bad thing for citizens to speak out about stuff they disagree with or think is unfair or bogus?
Why is my voice dismissed because I don't aspire enter the political arena some day"?

As for the typo... hey, SHE's the one that "aspires enter the political arena some day", not me. Also, "sit in their shoes"? That's not a typo, that's a mixed metaphor.
Like I said. Perfect for politics.

[Jamaican Q on 10.06.06 at 00:58]

Rev-I hope to see her reply to you..and i am not taking up for anyone. I hear you about what does a doctor know about Tourism etc. I agree with you to a certain extent. Personally I feel that Ministers of Government are just front men who make no decisions and rely on people like myself (smile) who work behind the scenes in policy and research etc to advise them. So in a sense they take the licks and reap the rewards....I have always found (based on JA) that people here sit down and come up with solutions to problems...BUT..they think the solution is independent of other social harms. What I mean is this...what is my solution can be your problem. The objective is to create a balance. So while Dr. Brown (and I know you meant him for Tourism) may not have a Masters Degree or a PhD in Tourism Management or is a pro on how to manage the tourism sector...he has experts who do..and they are not usually mentioned or brought to the fore. Also, you don't have to have credentials in a particular area to be knowledgable about the area...that is just my take. DOwn here it is the same crap...the current administration are all friends and run a sort of "old boys club". Our Minister of Health is a lawyer and so was our ex PM. Our new PM is a bar maid...and I am sure she didn't go to college to learn bartending....I know you got my main drift.

[JJ on 10.06.06 at 08:40]

In a large country with many, many diverse issues to be dealt with and hundreds of lobbying groups, international responsibilites to deal with, defence issues etc etc, i would tend to agree with Miss Polititcs.
However, we are talking about Bermuda here. It's town hall political issues at best. The economy runs itself (IB) and would be better with as little government intervention as possible (tourism). Big picture, all the country really wants from its leaders here is to educate our kids properly, provide some help to house the less well off and look after the roads.
Beyond this all else is grandstanding bullshit.

[Jamaican Q on 10.06.06 at 09:57]

JJ wouldn't you say that they will argue that the time they spend fixing Bermuda's problems, they could have been making more money for personal gratification, therefore the electorate should compensate them accordingly? I think they will lay that on the island.

[silencedogood on 10.06.06 at 10:01]

Elvis,

You've really been getting some good lines in lately. Couldn't agree more.

This push to place Bermuda politicians on a pedestal high above the public is completely self-serving and designed to mute legitimate criticism. What a crock! Miss politics is learning her craft well.

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 10.06.06 at 10:53]

"...the time they spend fixing Bermuda's problems..."

Um... When, exactly is this happening? Where are these "fixes"?

This isn't even a slam on the PLP. NONE of them are doing their job. If they were, then fine, give them a raise. But they're not and haven't for years.

Thanks, silenced... s'good to be appreciated.

[Jamaican Q on 10.06.06 at 11:02]

Reve...that was simply tongue in cheek. Remember nothing is ever guaranteed...but the process alone of failing/succeeding requires some effort....therefore they are going to argue that the time spent is cutting into what they could fetch in the private sector.....well that's how they come across down here...and I don't think Bermuda is any different...

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 10.06.06 at 11:19]

Q,

Just pokin', it's all good.

"Remember nothing is ever guaranteed...'

Welllll... not quite true. It seems that, when they can give themselves raises, above and beyond the reccommended level, it's pretty much guaranteed that they're gonna do it! *grin*

[observor on 10.06.06 at 11:42]

Miss Politics Herself!

i beleive that the if you check out the credentials of the politicians, you will see that the pittance they are earning cannot compensate for what they could earn in the private sector

Really? Please elaborate further ....

[jsm on 10.06.06 at 12:15]

"I don't think its a gay thread..."

I don't think you have a sense of humour....

[Martin on 10.06.06 at 13:21]

It's nothing to do with salaries - it's all to do with pensions.

Alex has obviously realised that his time in power is coming to an end.

Come to think of it, seems like a reasonable deal.

[Two Cents on 10.06.06 at 16:01]

'Remember nothing is ever guaranteed...'

"Accept certain inalienable truths
Prices will rise
Politicians will philander,
You too will get old,
and when you do you’ll fantasize
that when you were young
Prices were reasonable,
Politicians were noble
and children respected their elders."

-Baz Luhrmann

The bottom line is we're getting old...and times are changing. We need to revert to the time when, people held higher values, it wasn't about money, and how much stuff you had, you could phone your MP, because his number wasn't unlisted, the bishop didn't drive a Mercedes, and tourists still, came here because Bermuda was quaint & oh so very British, the futher we get away from that, the further we go down the creek with the proverbial paddle.

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 10.06.06 at 16:39]

"Our politicians should offer something in return: greater accountability. They might start by cracking down on those MPs who rarely show their faces in the House of Assembly. Make attendance compulsory. After all, isn't that part of what we're paying them for? Or how about they introduce a recall mechanism to allow the public to eject incompetent or dishonest MPs before the end of their term?"

These ideas should be carved into stone and put in the doorway for all of them to see.

You want more money, do the job. You don't want to do the job, fuck off and let someone who DOES want to do it have a crack. You don't know how to do the job, or it turns out it's too much for you? Grow some and exit gracefully. I got five bucks that says the history books will remember you as an honest man (or woman), not an incompetant.

[Jamaican Q on 10.06.06 at 18:56]

Two cents....you must have some Caymanian blood in you. You sound just like them....wanting to remain hunting and gathering society while the rest of the world moves on. It doesn't work that way anymore hon...It's a capitalist system where the Bishop's congregation has grown richer and the MP has no time for tea and crumpets.

[oct201619 on 10.06.06 at 22:01]

Folks,
At the end of the day, THEY ARE NOT WORTH IT!
Wether they attend the house or not.About a third of them do not earn that type of money outside of the house than what they make under the new pay raises.
The results by this group of do nothings spend everything speak for it self.

[stuart J Hayward on 11.06.06 at 15:06]

Guilden writes:
The times MPs come and leave from Parliamentary sessions should be recorded. These records should be made public so that the electorate can know how much time its elected officials are spending on the job.

Guilden, I tried to do just this when I was in Parliament.

Believe me, it was an almost impossible task. MPs leave their seats to: talk with other MPs, talk with the press, talk with people in the gallery, meet with people who have brought them messages, meet with their admin assistants, meet with the Speaker, attend Committee meetings, attend meetings concerning their portfolios, and so on. Attempting to keep track of who was in the Chamber and for how long became an almost consuming task. I had to create a matrix in which to enter the information — for some Ministers, the chunks of in-Chamber time were innumerable. I brought my portable computer into the Chamber so I could take notes and enter the attendance data directly into a spreadsheet, but the govt deemed that I was contravening House Rules against "recording devices", so that didn't work. Keeping a tally became so complex that I could see no way to make the information simply and credibly public.

It's a good idea but it will need to have the approval of Parliament to implement effectively — the job is too time and effort consuming to be carried out by a lone individual.

[stuart J Hayward on 11.06.06 at 15:09]

oops, looks like I posted this info before in this thread. Sorry

[Simon on 12.06.06 at 10:44]

I do hope that the Minister of Finance has looked into te impact of this on the Ministers and Members of the Legislature pension scheme.

[SmokingGun on 12.06.06 at 11:08]

Stuart: RFID

Martin/Simon: What impact will this have on pension costs? Or as Simon appropriately calls it "scheme".

As far as I'm concerned seeing as our politicians all seem to hold down a day job where they collect an income with benefits, a government salary with benefits, an expense account with benefits and to top it all off the power to enable friends and family to gain lucrative on-going business deals I don't for the life of me see why they need to even pull two or more pensions.

[Simon on 12.06.06 at 11:26]

The pension recieved depends directly on how much the current salary level is for the various offices held during the time spent as a minister/member/senator.

[Simon on 12.06.06 at 11:31]

Just to clarify, if all salaries increase by x% then the pension liability will increase accordingly.

[SmokingGun on 12.06.06 at 11:53]

Thanks Simon. Perfect timing.... I gotta get me one of them side-jobs.

[onevote on 13.06.06 at 09:57]

In Bermuda, side-jobs are called "hustles". Kinda puts MP positions into perspective, doesn't it? :-)

[ken on 13.06.06 at 10:29]

I believe that in order to get the best and the brightest to enter the political realm and to give Bermuda the government we deserve...and from what most of the posters on here believe we aren't getting...that incentives need to be given, especially in the financial arena. These salaries, while they are a large increase, are not that excessive in the grand scheme of things. The proposed 200K for the Premier is probably less than most senior managers in exempt companies make. Remember they get no bonus for being an MP either. So we need to keep things in perspective. Also we have to realize that we have to separate the salary issue from the current Parliamentary members. There is no guarantee that any of the 36 of them will be there after 2008. Hopefully the increases will pass and potential candidates who couldn't sustain themselves financially under the old pay system will give it a go and try to make a difference.

I do, however, find it hilarious, that the Opposition (Michael Dunkley specificially) was on the news complaining about the pay increases. It is an easy road for the Opposition to take by voting against the pay increases. They voiced their opposition, (knowing the government vote would win), then if the increase pass through the Senate, the Opposition benefits just as the Government does. So basically they will sit back and say "We don't want the $$, but we'll take it". If they are so opposed to it, or feel so strongly about it, don't accept it. I also bet that if in fact they win the government back, they would not hesitate to accept the increase Premier's salary.

[Bill Cook on 13.06.06 at 10:42]

Ken I have an idea for you.

As our mps get no bonuses maybe we could introduce a bonus for cutting costs and bringing projects in on time ?

No one would deny a decent living for a hard working mp but first we have to find them right ?

[silencedogood on 13.06.06 at 10:43]

At least one opposition member was broadcast this weekend asking the government not to give him the pay increase. They replied that it was not possible. The name of the MP slips my mind.

CEO's are paid to create value, Alex Scott seems intent on destroying value for his cheque.

Government should not be compensated at the same levels as private industry. The only ones which do are kleptocracies. Look up the salaries of major world leaders, they are very low relative to business leaders in their countires. I imagine that's because their entire living expenses are paid (can we say Camden at $1.2 million in renovations?, not to mention travel and meals) and they get lots of power which tends to be worth more to them.

It's supposed to be public service not a payday.

[observor on 13.06.06 at 10:45]

ken

I agree that our MPs should be paid more, however, just like your senior manager comparison, they need to be held accountable, accessible, responsive and most importantly responsible for their actions, omissions and successes.

Until such time as a modern regulatory framework is in place (including Parliamentary reform, PATI, etc.) it would seem instituting raises now (or more accurately: retroactively) are akin to putting the cart before the horse. Why should government not be properly regulated and held accountable in the same way the insurance, banking, trust and investment industries are?

Raises should only become effective after the next election and a firm commitment to (or more preferably implementation of) these democratic improvements have been made.

[Full Fullish on 13.06.06 at 11:12]

Silence -

"At least one opposition member was broadcast this weekend asking the government not to give him the pay increase. They replied that it was not possible. The name of the MP slips my mind."

It was John Barrit

[ken on 13.06.06 at 11:25]

"Silence -

"At least one opposition member was broadcast this weekend asking the government not to give him the pay increase. They replied that it was not possible. The name of the MP slips my mind."

It was John Barrit"

Probably because Mr. Barritt is hardly lacking for financial security.

[ken on 13.06.06 at 11:30]

I understand some of your reservations regarding the pay increases, but do you really feel that the opposition (except for Mr. Barritt) will decline them, and if elected will not accept the increase that comes with the Premier and Ministerial increases? or in fact will backtrack and reduce them?

[Full Fullish on 13.06.06 at 11:35]

Ken -
"Probably because Mr. Barritt is hardly lacking for financial security."

Yeah the MP who was forced to "retire" from being a partner in a law firm, once the UBP came into power cause suddenly his political interests were in conflict with his business ones. He left a VERY lucrative partnership in order to remain an MP, and while I don't know facts or figures, I'm sure it was at a substantial pay cut. So much for your theory.

It's easy to throw daggers at these guys, but know who you are throwing daggers at. I personally think that John Barritt is one of our more upstanding MP's going. Again, my view points.

[Full Fullish on 13.06.06 at 11:36]

Sorry that should read:

Once the UBP came OUT of power....

[SmokingGun on 13.06.06 at 11:36]

I much prefer the bonus plan. Moderate increases in salaries with a very transparent bonus plan would provide incentive and improve accountability.

[Full Fullish on 13.06.06 at 11:39]

Ken -
"I understand some of your reservations regarding the pay increases, but do you really feel that the opposition (except for Mr. Barritt) will decline them, and if elected will not accept the increase that comes with the Premier and Ministerial increases? or in fact will backtrack and reduce them?"

I also like the sliding pay scale based on performance. I'm happy to throw money at an MP who represents the people properly as well as gets the job he's assigned to do, done, but we have yet to see that, with the exception of a small few.....Most of them, you draw a blank as to what they have done in the last year, or two, or three.....