Open mike: Community service

Calvin writes:

"Educating Private Ryan has shown us that many Bermudians believe that broader forms of community service should be considered as valid alternatives to serving in the Bermuda Regiment. One suggested candidate is the Big Brother program and it is easy to see that this route might prove to be time better spent for Bigs, while potentially providing more role models for Littles. The Women's Resource Center is another strong candidate. Denis Pitcher believes political activism should count also.

If community service is the true aim of the Bermuda Regiment, then it seems that conscripting more young Bermudians - possibly even all young Bermudians - to serve their country in a broader context might be a better solution. Enumerating candidate activities is a good place to start validating the feasibility of such an alternative system. What better way to figure out that we don't have enough community service to do in Bermuda to keep busy the thousand or so 18 year olds which emerge each year?

So, which community services or charities do you feel would constitute valid replacements for service in the Bermuda Regiment?"

Comments

[Full Fullish on 29.04.06 at 15:48]

Police Reserves
St. Johns Ambulance
Reserve Fire Fighters

Are the first 3 that spring to mind.

[FewMore on 29.04.06 at 16:28]

Youth Centers
Sea Cadets
CubScouts
GirlGuides (for girls)
KBB
Mentoring

[Denis Pitcher on 29.04.06 at 19:21]

Pretty obvious what I already support off the top.

I also support most anything that can be deemed a positive contribution our society overall and that both males and females should be required to give time as well as any individual who acquires status.

I would add:

Volunteering at:
the hospital
senior facilities
homes for people projects

[Denis Pitcher on 29.04.06 at 19:30]

Hell,

Imagine the impact we could have on our tourism if we had young volunteers willing to give guided tours of the island? Their exemption being reliant on the feedback people give.

What kind of cohesiveness and community spirit would that bring as well as the boost to the appreciation of tourism and the international business community?

[Denis Pitcher on 29.04.06 at 19:45]

Not to overrun this thread, but I wanted to add that "political activism" is a bit generic a description.

I would suggest that acquiring a number of nominations from registered voters and the intent to register to run in an election would better suffice. The parliamentary registry suggests 2 people are required for nomination and a $250 deposit to be able to run in a general election. I think a more realistic number would be 20.

It would encourage more youth to get politically involved which I believe is important in helping to guide our future.

[ace on 29.04.06 at 20:26]

Denis, I don't disagree with your ideas IF there were enough people willing to volunteer, but Phil is talking about conscription.

The Regiment works for one reason only...discipline. What are you going to do to a St. John Ambulence conscriptee who turns up his nose at an assignment, or a conscriptee who refuses to change bedclothes at an old folks home? Force them to sit in a comfy chair? Batter them with soft fluffy pillows?

In principle its a good idea, but many of these 18 years olds aren't interested in bettering their community. Conscripting them into community service is likey going to cause more headaches for these organisations than solve them.

[Denis Pitcher on 29.04.06 at 20:35]

Ace,

Then force them to serve in regiment if they don't perform up to expectations.

The point is to get people involved and teach them dicipline exactly as you suggest. Not all routes would be easy and if you limit the numbers that can do each and put requirements on their performance so that only people who are truly interested and willing to be involved can do the best things.

What I see is that our youth are nothing more then a reflection of our society. Many Bermudians seem interested in bettering themselves more then in bettering the community.

We are a far ways away from the Bermuda of yesterday and it shows.

[Andrew on 30.04.06 at 00:06]

I agree with Dennis’ previous post; if they refuse to perform service in an alternate program, send them to the regiment.

Many young Bermudians do need discipline in their lives. But many of the regiment conscripts do not need this additional discipline, for example those that have returned from schooling abroad. It is hard for me to imagine a 19 year old corporal shouting “I’m gonna make you into a man” at a 22 year old ivy-league graduate working at one of the big insurance companies. Why not give everyone the option to start in an alternate community service program. Some will still choose to do the regiment—not everyone is suited to helping the elderly etc. A plan like this would also encourage more kids to participate earlier on in life if it were an option—I know the cadets program is great for some kids, but the majority now do not choose to participate in the cadets. If they could choose alternate service areas, then many teenagers would have incentive to complete their service at a younger age.

[Full Fullish on 30.04.06 at 08:40]

Andrew - "“I’m gonna make you into a man” at a 22 year old ivy-league graduate working at one of the big insurance companies."

You would be surprised as to how many "Boys" were 22 year old graduates from ivy-league colleges working at insurance companies.

I think it should be up to the individual, and I also think it should be manditory for ALL able bodied young men and women, but factors like availability and experience should also weigh in.

[jake on 30.04.06 at 08:40]

They already tried that, and as Ace makes plain, it failed.

St. John's Ambulance asked for the option for Regimental service to be transferred to them to be halted because the types that were going that way were by and large the ones who wanted to avoid the Regiment, not help the injured. They had no way of maintaining order and these people got in the way, more than anything.

They asked the Regiment to stop.

That is why I find the whole attempt to find other ways to help amusing. Many people in the Regiment still find time to help in the community, if they are so minded in the first place. The others - well, they are not all on the wall, but they will be pursuing their personal agenda solely. This claim that we would be freeing them to do the greater good is just ridiculous.

[Denis Pitcher on 30.04.06 at 10:47]

Jake,

What that suggests is that there are quite a few youth who are in desperate need of the lessons that regiment will teach them. Many who arn't called.

What we're suggesting here are means to get all youth more involved in giving back to the community rather then just conscript a random portion of men to do so.

If the lessons learned in regiment are so beneficial then why shouldn't they be extended to all youth?

There are ways around your stated argument for St. Johns and other alternatives. You put a limit on the numbers of who can do it and you can even only allow youth in good standing to pursue that option. Such as those with good grades and no speeding tickets, or similar.

The point is to encourage them from a young age to be forward thinking and plan ahead to avoid regiment long before they get to it. If they are so inclined to do so.

Our society has become so self focused that we could use a tilt on those who are "pursuing their personal agenda solely". The only way we're going to solve our problems and actually see a future for Bermuda that we can all live in is if we start thinking about the picture bigger then our selves.

[Two Cents on 30.04.06 at 15:39]

This idea is great on paper, except for one problem as I see;

You are gonna have some "shady" characters who will volunteer at charities, Police Reserves St.Johns Ambulance, Reserve Fire Fighters, KBB
Mentoring or whatever else they have to so the can get out of the regiment;
AND THEN
They won't bother to turn up or won't do any work once they get there, They will then get "equally shady" relatives, friends of the family, etc to sign the necessary affidavid, paperwork, form, etc to "get them out of regiment". This plan is just full of gaping loop holes to get out of regiment.

I know of a certain person (I'll call him "loser") whose boss gets him out of Regiment approx twice a month by calling Warwick Camp, and then following up with a fax stating that Mr. Loser is required to work late on an "important project" at work, then they go out for dinner & drinks. They were even approached by RP's and his boss confirmed that they had just left a "work dinner".

[Denis Pitcher on 30.04.06 at 16:15]

I think your comments bring to light the other side of the comment I was making on the other thread.

Which was either conscript all, or conscript none.

If there are quite a few "Mr. Losers" as you call them, who look for any excuse to get out of regiment. How is it that they can be counted on when it comes to fullfilling their duty when needed?

It gives some credence to the arguement of removing conscription and making regiment a better paid and incentified service to make people actually want to volunteer rather then be forced into it.

[Two Cents on 30.04.06 at 16:46]

"How is it that they can be counted on when it comes to fullfilling their duty when needed?"

Dennis this is my point, They should get their chance to either
1. Do their three years of regiemnt service

2. Do their three years as a volunteer for a charity, community group, etc

IF THEY CHOOSE NEITHER, they have proven themselves "unworthy" and immediately lose any privlidges from the gov't
1. Shouldn't be unable to licence their car (unless it's a proven requirement for work ........and "getting to work" isn't an excuse, they should be made to bus it.

2. Should be made to pay for Gov't clinics, denist, etc (if they use it). No free Gov't services

3. If they need a passport, they should have to pay an "non-regiemnt" extra fee to recieve it, No Regiment...No travel (without PAYING)

[jake on 30.04.06 at 18:17]

Denis,

I think your argument comes down to this: Denis Pitcher does not want to serve in the Regiment.

We get that.

To make the argument trite in the form of "all or none" is not only unworkable, but nonsensical. To say that all of Bermuda's youth can use the discipline, but then say you don't think it makes sense, is debating yourself. That would be an interesting exercise, except that you seem to be agreeing with both sides, without demonstrating that you even see that there are more sides than one.

It is a good thing that this argument is academic. You have been selected. Suit up. You're going to look great in green.

[futureconscript on 30.04.06 at 19:12]

Following your posts I would like to comment that should what qualifies as serving a duty to your country be expanded to other social services such as youth groups KBB and the like, people that are already giving back to their community will get credit for their efforts, and those that are not involved will either get involved or join regiment. Much like the reserve police, Sea Cadets, fire brigade and St. Johns ambulance, if you do not pull your weight in what ever service you “apply” for, you will have to serve your time at the regiment. The reason I draw attention to apply is that not every Joe of the streets can join St. Johns ambulance and these other substitutes, and nor should you be able to join any club or social group and call it community service. I’m not sure where the cap for community service is but I’d bet that a lot could be done around the community using alternatives to conscription while filling the ranks at the regiment if everyone had to be involved from say aged 16 – 22 serving their two years.

Those that have learned and are practicing the discipline necessary to dedicate themselves to a voluntary organization should be allowed to continue and those that need to learn discipline and dedication will be more likely to get caught in the draft for regiment gaining all the benefits of regiment conscription.

I tutor (voluntarily), I am a mentor, I coach soccer, I’m involved in the Black Student Advising Center at School and I volunteer at every chance to the optional community service through my job. Which of these should I stop doing in order to accommodate conscription while I work a full time and a part time job? In actuality I would have to pass up all of them due to scheduling, but even if I only lost one of my volunteer activities it would be a loss to myself and my community as the ‘Discipline and dedication’ that I would ‘learn’ would be at the cost of my students mentee’s and players.

Not that it matters, but I am from Friswell’s Hill, (back of town) and I am all for giving back and making man out of boys and women out of girls, but in my naturally biased opinion, the regiment doesn’t have the tools to teach discipline and attacks the problem way too late in the game. You don’t learn discipline at 18 years old.

[Denis Pitcher on 30.04.06 at 21:23]

Futureconscript,

Your dedication to the community is inspiring and I thank you for sharing your view. You are exactly the kind of example I was trying to suggest.

Two Cents,

I completely agree with you, people who skip out on their obligations should be penalized from receving any benefits.

Jake,

You seem to miss my arguement completely. I'm arguing against conscription not regiment. I don't agree with the "random" selection for men only. If women fought for equality then they should get it. Why are only men conscripted and women get a free ride? Women certainly could volunteer if they're not able to serve in regiment.

I also feel that all youth should learn the lessons of contribution and dicipline as too many have lost sight of the direction of society and are focusing only on themselves. This is reflected in older generations who have adopted this attitude are living it and are contributing to the complacency that exists in our society today in regards to many issues that affect all of us.

It is my feeling is that we should abolish conscription and either replace it with nothing, or a duty to the community requirement for every Bermudian and every person who gets status.

What I want is exemption from a requirement to serve during the time between when an election is called and the actual election. Thats likely to be a span of 6 weeks. I have no difficulty with serving my 3 years outside of those 6 weeks, hell I think I'd enjoy it but I'm really commited to making a difference on a bigger level if I can.

I have nothing against regiment, simply conscription itself.

[Phil on 30.04.06 at 21:56]

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't use this as another thread to discuss the pros and cons of the Regiment, or Denis' views on it. This is about what you think might be suitable alternatives to the Regiment. Thanks.

[novote on 30.04.06 at 22:18]

"Denis,

I think your argument comes down to this: Denis Pitcher does not want to serve in the Regiment.

We get that."

Almost there, Jake.

Despite his contrived argument, Denis Pitcher would like to do something that he will do anyway instead of being conscripted into the Regiment.

Well, wouldn't we all!

Isn't that the point?

[Phil on 30.04.06 at 22:34]

I agree that conscription into non-military forms of community service is largely unworkable for the reasons outlined by ace and jake.

However I think that conscription into the Regiment is illiberal and unnecessary, despite the good that the Regiment does and the benefits it can provide.

As such, I think the only solution is the complete abolition of any form of compulsory community service. Except in extraordinary circumstances, I believe that service to one's community or country is best given voluntarily.

[novote on 30.04.06 at 23:03]

Limey - couldn't agree more.

[J Galt on 01.05.06 at 07:39]

"They should get their chance to either
1. Do their three years of regiemnt service

2. Do their three years as a volunteer for a charity, community group, etc

IF THEY CHOOSE NEITHER, they have proven themselves "unworthy" and immediately lose any privlidges from the gov't"

Unworthy because they choose not to become slave labour? Have you lost your mind? So if a person is paying taxes but deemed "unworthy" by your insane standards then they shouldn't be able to benefit from money that is unjustly taken from them in the first place?

Why don't you and commrade Dennis move to communist state instead of trying to create one here.

If you are so bent on helping the youth then go out and help them, don't enslave, lead by example give up your time, not thiers.

[Two Cents on 01.05.06 at 10:47]

JGalt,

I've "done my time" (four years Police Reserves...never got called for Regiment).

Just how much in taxes has an eighteen year old paid ?? I am guessing very little ....if any.

Volunteering for Charity Work
and/or serving time in the Regiment builds character, AND if you won't/don't do whats asked of you, why should you enjoy the privlidges of being a citizen?

Maybe I could ignore my Jury Duty letter too, if I don't agree with locking people up in prisons.... Laws are laws we don't get to decide which ones to obey.

I beleive that if more people volunteered for charity work or served time in the Regiment, we'd have less people 'sitting on walls' or in sitting in jail, as these people would be better citizens and generally more honest, responsible and would be more motivated to work

[Onion on 01.05.06 at 11:24]

Denis says,

"It is my feeling is that we should abolish conscription and either replace it with nothing, or a duty to the community requirement for every Bermudian and every person who gets status."

How do you enforce this? What is the penalty for not showing up at, eg., Masterworks gallery to volunteer? No champagne at the next cocktail party? Does masterworks have MWPs (Masterworks police) to go and chase down all awol members? hmmmm

Denis, your point about creating greater incentives for people to join regiment on a volunteer basis had some merit but you cannot equate a military force to charity work. The Regiment is NOT a charity. Charities work best when people volunteer. For a military to function you need to enforce a strict code of discpline to ensure attendence and to maintain proper standards. That force needs to be paid properly, similar to police, or conscripted.

If you want to do away with conscription then you need to get on your soap box and call for a leaner force of volunteers who get paid substantially more than the meagre sum they get now. BTW you said the regimental messes get $12m a year. I think if you read the budget statement properly you will see that you added an extra zero. Get your facts straight.

Having said this, the vast majority of persons from all backgrounds are proud of the fact that they served and they do not regret it. Many individuals came out of retirement to assist with post Hurricane Fabian efforts. There are also a great many soldiers who were once kicking and screaming into regiment and have stayed on. Others who did their three years and gone back into civilian world have come back later to volunteer.

Denis, stop whinging and do your time. It will be good for you. And no you shouldn't have time off around elections. Do your canvassing at camp. You'll have an audience of 500 at your disposal!!!

[observor on 01.05.06 at 11:35]

The Regiment is NOT a charity ... uhh ... not sure if I agree with that remark ... taking into consideration my regimental pay and the amount of time I spent hurrying up and waiting ... I would say it was a charitable organisation ... and I was the donor :-)

[Ethiops on 01.05.06 at 13:12]

I think half the prison could be emptied if we implemented a sort of mandatory community service program for petty crimes etc.

[novote on 01.05.06 at 17:12]

Two Cents - Point of Information: 18 year olds have probably paid a great deal of tax (perhaps not as much as a 30 or 50 year old, but...). In Bermuda a huge proportion of tax is generated through import duties. Every dollar that an 18 year old spends includes tax, so don't knock them on that basis.