Independence meeting tonight

Just a reminder that the PLP is holding another independence meeting at Penno’s Wharf in St. George’s this evening (Thursday), starting at 7.30pm. If you can’t make it in person, KJAZ 98.1 FM will be broadcasting the proceedings live.

Comments

[Teacher on 29.06.06 at 19:19]

Maybe tonight we will see how independence will provide a predictable source of revenue.

What do we do with all the Bermuda born children to guest workers? Surely we can’t make them stateless or set them adrift in small boats.

Wouldn’t Bermuda be obliged to take them as part in the spirit of the UN.

Could someone ask this question?

[sleepy on 29.06.06 at 21:11]

If the audio on KJAZ is any indication the meeting was moved to Crystal Caves.

[TLAT on 29.06.06 at 23:06]

All,

I personally apologize for the audio quality of our live feed from the BIC meeting tonight. The poor quality was due to my oversight, as I failed to pack the correct audio cables. A quick (1 hr) dash to the studio to pick up the correct cable and back to Pennos wharf, and we were able to at least salvage the last hour of the program with a clear signal. I assure you that there won’t be ‘a next time’ quality issue of this nature.

98.1FM is a community oriented station and we anticipate covering several events of interest over the summer months. If all goes well, the next BIC meeting will also be broadcasted and consideration is being given to encouraging listeners to email their questions, comments, and views that will be immediately addressed by the panel.

No matter which side of the fence you fall on, please get involved in the process, let your voice be heard, and exercise your right to agree or disagree. If any other group, committee, organization, etc. is interested in live coverage of an event please drop us a line. Thanks for getting the word out Phil.

TLAT
CEO
98.1FM

[YankeeKayaker on 30.06.06 at 00:06]

Sounds to me like you guys are going to become independent whether you like it or not. Might as well start making plans now on how to handle the new problems that will be dumped in your laps...

[lost in flatts on 30.06.06 at 06:30]

Can anyone post some thoughts on what was said? Was it the same old rehtoric?
Are we indepedent already?
Did they list 5 tangible benefits?

[Tiger Bay on 30.06.06 at 08:03]

Cato the Elder used to stand up in the Roman Forum in every session to proclaim forcefully "Delenda est Carthago" until, well, eventually they did go destroy Carthage.

A familiar tactic?

[ace on 30.06.06 at 08:31]

According to the newspaper it was summed up like this:

"See all those flags waving during the world cup? That is national pride!"

Response: The day AFTER the finals all those flags get put away and everyone goes back to real life.

"The British people are embarassed to still have colonies."

Response: Really? Let's see the results of the polls you took on this point! Or...was that just something that is ASSumed.

"The island might remain a Monarchy."

Response: So, all this money, time and effort is being spent to free us from the yoke of colonialism and the bad naughty wicked mother country is to get a flag then? Other than that I don't see the point.

I like our current flag. That red sea monster is cool (yea, I know it is supposed to be a lion...but a red lion? Nahhhh...it is a SEAMONSTER!!!!!

[silencedogood on 30.06.06 at 08:57]

"The island might remain a Monarchy."

Posted by ace on 30.06.06 at 08:31

I think they probably mean King Alex and Prince Ewart, not Elizabeth.

[sandgrownan on 30.06.06 at 09:50]

yawn..just one tangible benefit please of independence....just one. Please.

[JJ on 30.06.06 at 10:24]

I'd settle for half of one.......maybe a quarter

[lost in flatts on 30.06.06 at 10:26]

Wait the Sea Monster is a Lion? You're kidding!!!

[SmokingGun on 30.06.06 at 12:13]

Dame Lois said the fever and passion stirred by the football World Cup, as evident on the Island by the plethora of national flags being flown from cars, buildings and even on construction sites showed what it meant to have a national identity and a national pride.
She said those of other nationalities on the Island could feel that pride, but Bermudians can not so long as they are a dependency. Bermudians need to get emotional about Independence, she said, adding: “If you watch the football you can feel what these other nations are feeling.
“Everyone has a flag. That is true emotion, that is what being proud means. That is what Independence means. If people don’t know tell them to watch the TV. Look at the number of people in Bermuda flying their flags. That’s what loving your country is all about.”

Premier Alex Scott addressed the audience at the end and said he had seen a construction site flying the flags of Brazil, France, Portugal and England – but he said one flag was missing from the picture and that was a truly Bermudian flag. “We can’t buy citizenship and we can’t have it until we become Independent.”

I think I've got the solution:

Bribe FIFA to get our National Bermuda Team into the next World Cup. That way we can fly our flag all over the place and scream out to whole world that we are proud to be Bermudian!

[Bill Cook on 30.06.06 at 12:21]

Be interesting to see which flag the Dames children would fly seeing as they were all born in the USA as I understand it !!

[josh on 30.06.06 at 13:38]

Yeah, someone should clue them in that the reason the Bermuda flag is not flying is that we are not playing in the World Cup.

I can't believe they think people are buying this "argument" that we don't/can't have national pride. It's insulting to most Bermudians who actually do feel national pride in Bermuda. It doesn't matter whether we are technically a "nation" by whomever's definition, because pride is a personal feeling and most everybody everywhere feels connection with their own locality and country. So I really think they shoot themselves in the electoral foot with this lack of national pride nonsense. But then, they have very little else to go on, don't they?

Maybe if headstrong Alex spent a bit more time at RBYC he'd know how to change tack.

[observor on 30.06.06 at 13:47]

Dame LBE is a hypocrite.

Had we qualified within our particular region we would be flying our flag for the finals. We're too small (minded if you're LBE) and accordingly don't currently have the depth of talent necessary to compete at this level given the comparative number of footballers worldwide.

Perhaps there's a another (unaccounted for) $11m lying around for the BFA to improve local programs? Just look under the Clifton master bedroom mattress.

[SmokingGun on 30.06.06 at 13:49]

josh - as much as it probably irritates a lot of others I love a good pun. ;-)

Regarding pride:
I am extremely proud that I am from Bermuda.
I am not always proud to be a Bermudian.

[Phil on 30.06.06 at 13:53]

The Government's hyperbole undermines its own position.

If Alex et al said, "Some Bermudians will only feel a sense of national pride if we are independent", no-one could argue with that.

By omitting the word "some", however, they aggravate all those Bermudians who already feel national pride, and make themselves look out of touch. Greater honesty would help their cause immeasurably.

[SmokingGun on 30.06.06 at 14:07]

observer - hence the word "bribe'". Bermuda doesn't stand a hope in hell of getting into the World Cup. Not unless we can convince a few Beckhams, Ronaldos and Zidanes to move here and give their kids full status.

[Teacher on 30.06.06 at 16:45]

Dame Lois said the fever and passion stirred by the football World Cup.

This is not the 1960s and the Wind of Change is all but spent. Most of Europe has become more interdependent. Even the former communist countries want to join the EU.

The boundries between nation states are being de-differentiated - A common European flag, Currency and soon taxation etc.

Bermuda is 40 years out of date.

[Teacher on 30.06.06 at 16:54]

If it would help sort out the falg issue I could always ask Angela Merkel if we can stick some up in the 'Olympiastadion in Berlin.

[novote on 30.06.06 at 16:58]

"Some Bermudians will only feel a sense of national pride if we are independent"

I wonder whether Alex Scott feels national pride.

If he doesn't then what on earth is he doing as Premier?

If he does, then his argument in favour of independence is nonesense!

[ace on 30.06.06 at 16:59]

"Wait the Sea Monster is a Lion? You're kidding!!!"

I think the point is still open to debate. I mentioned that it was a Seamonster in a thread quite some time ago and was told in no uncertain terms that it is a lion.

I'll be over in Africa in August. If I see a bright red lion I'll take a picture.

[selkieman on 30.06.06 at 17:20]

group of self-interested & deluded black men have large white chips removed from shoulders.

Free at last. No independence necessary.

Can we have the next generation please ?

It must be a terrible thing to be superseded. Even worse to get caught in the wake.

[james on 30.06.06 at 17:23]

"Some Bermudians will only feel a sense of national pride if we are independent"

I wonder whether Alex Scott feels national pride.

If he doesn't then what on earth is he doing as Premier?

If he does, then his argument in favour of independence is nonesense!

Posted by novote on 30.06.06 at 16:58

I agree, someone ask him this. Too bad the reporters in this country only ask flowery questions that are easy to answer for the politicians. Some one ask him if he is proud to be Bermudian, proud of Bermuda and why the HELL does he not wear the Bermuda Flag pin rather than the PLP pin.

[SmokingGun on 30.06.06 at 18:07]

"Some one ask him if he is proud to be Bermudian, proud of Bermuda and why the HELL does he not wear the Bermuda Flag pin rather than the PLP pin." - james

I never paid that much attention but now that you mention it if that's the case then I think you are 110% correct. How totally crass.

[josh on 30.06.06 at 19:16]

SmokingGun, P wore his PLP pin throughout the big trip to Washington. No clue, the man has no clue.

[SmokingGun on 30.06.06 at 19:26]

josh - that's just unforgivable. One thing's for sure, the guys in DC are now clued in. If I were the governor I would have offered up a Bermuda pin and if he refused I would have pulled rank and stuck a pin on his lapel right then and there. And I would have made sure it was stuck in good and proper! ;-)

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 30.06.06 at 20:00]

Yeah. It's a lion. An ugly-ass, poorly drawn lion, but a lion nonetheless.

I think Peter Woolcock did a pic of the lion and shield that would look great on a flag!

That gets my vote.

[YankeeKayaker on 30.06.06 at 22:02]

(“Everyone has a flag. That is true emotion, that is what being proud means. That is what Independence means. If people don’t know tell them to watch the TV. Look at the number of people in Bermuda flying their flags. That’s what loving your country is all about.”)

So you can't love your country or feel national pride unless you have a soccer team in the World Cup? What a childish view! And what's all this about Bermuda not having a flag...what's that big red cloth you guys have flying all over the place?

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 30.06.06 at 23:11]

"Yeah. It's a lion. An ugly-ass, poorly drawn lion, but a lion nonetheless."

Ummm, ok, who paid attention in school? Remember, Bermuda was originally called The Devil's Isle, due to noises that were strange to those that were shipwrecked off the Island? The ship represents the wrecks and the "lion" represents the beast that was thought to create the strange noises.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 30.06.06 at 23:14]

Ooops, the ship is the Sea Venture.

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 30.06.06 at 23:43]

Um... yeah...
it's still a lion and still poorly drawn.

[myshreecents on 01.07.06 at 11:08]

Might as well start making plans now on how to handle the new problems that will be dumped in your laps...

Posted by YankeeKayaker on 30.06.06 at 00:06

YankeeKayaker I was just wondering if you could elaborate on the "new problems" we will get. What might they be and how will they be any different from anything we deal with at present?

[Teacher on 01.07.06 at 11:49]

Who will pay for consular representation across the world -

Citizenship for people born on the island - Surely the UK would demand this before handover of their territory. Are their any exceptions to this?

Cost of maritime security.

What will we do when IB relocates to the Turks and Caiscos with its Privy Council option?

[ace on 01.07.06 at 11:49]

"it's still a lion and still poorly drawn."

Why a lion? It makes no sense. Guilden says it represents the strange noises that defined us as the devil's isles. That STILL doesn't make any sense.

A seamonster is much more fitting. Lions frigging ROAR...they don't make scary unidentifable noises. We live in the middle of the Atlantic and we are a point in the mysterious Bermuda Triangle. A seamonster makes absolute sense. We are thousands of miles away from any flipping lions.

Let's call it a seamonster that "looks" a little bit like a lion. Okay?

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 01.07.06 at 12:52]

The lion symbolizes Britain, as far as I know.

I'm just saying what it's supposed to be, don't shoot the messenger! *grin*

[ace on 01.07.06 at 13:34]

I wouldn't do that Uncle E.

Say...how about a drink this afternoon? I'll meet you outside the Swizzle on South Shore.

:-)

[myshreecents on 01.07.06 at 13:39]

Teacher
Just because people are born here will and does not mean citizenship. Thousands of children have been born here to the parents of foriegn nationals with no claim to Bermuda.Children have claim of citizenship to the country of their parents birth.
What maritime security do we presently have and who pays for it?
Not sure what you mean about Turks Privy Council option an Independent Bermuda can and will most likely retain our connection to the Privy Council.
We can and will pay for Consular Rep. It is not a great cost and you only need them in certain places throughout the world.I don't have my copy of the BIC report with me at the moment....if I did I would give you the exact figures and suggested locations

I suggest you get a copy of the BIC report and read it. Educate and inform yourself before asking question that have been fully answered in the report. We must approach this issue fully informed and with open minds.

[canuck on 01.07.06 at 13:40]

Based on Bermuda's "performance" on the world stage over the past 20 years....I no longer admit that I'm Bermudian....people look at you differently now, then they did then. They see a corrupted little republic that lets murderers go free, and has very little protection of human rights.....The racist thing is just pathetic.

[canuck on 01.07.06 at 13:44]

"I suggest you get a copy of the BIC report and read it. Educate and inform yourself before asking question that have been fully answered in the report."

That's rather ironic....questions have been asked over and obver ahain, with no answer.

"Thousands of children have been born here to the parents of foriegn nationals with no claim to Bermuda.Children have claim of citizenship to the country of their parents birth."

So, Dame lois' children are Bermudian, despite being born in the US?

"Not sure what you mean about Turks Privy Council option an Independent Bermuda can and will most likely retain our connection to the Privy Council."

...and the irony grows...have YOU read the report?

"We can and will pay for Consular Rep. It is not a great cost and you only need them in certain places throughout the world."

Let me guess....the only other place you've been in Atlanta...for shopping.

[myshreecents on 01.07.06 at 14:10]

These and many other questions are answered in the report. Yes I have read the report,Have you read it Canuck. Are you a Bermudian? . Yes Dame Lois's children even though they were born outside the country are Bermudian because the law gives rights of citizenship to the children of Bermudians where ever they are born in the world.
Many independent Caribeean countries still call on the Privy Consul as the last stop for legal matters. Not sure what you mean about Atlanta..
Consul need to been in makor business center in countries we do business with ....say Washington, New York, London and in other countries you hire a Consul Representative.

[teacher on 01.07.06 at 15:13]

From the responses above I guess I'n not the only uneducated fool.

[teacher on 01.07.06 at 15:37]

Article 15.
(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.

You assume that those born to migrants of 'non Bermudian parentage will be denied nationality. Presently they can obtain a British Passport. When that is removed, Bermuda will surely be bound by Article 15 of the UN human rights act.

You also assume that you can off load migrant children onto everyone else. This is part of being independent. We will also have to accept our share of economic migrants like the rest of the world.

By the way I have a Bermudian Passport and was born on the island. However I am not living in some make believe isolationist bubble, untouched by the obligations of international treaties.

I’m not sure the BIC report can fully answer that question I have raised; it would only take 1 legal test case before we would know, assuming we were still affiliated to the Privy Council. I’m sure the families of migrant workers would be excited by this potential opportunity.

[Bill Cook on 01.07.06 at 21:48]

Many children of workers have status and the LTR and many others would automatically become Bermudians upon Independence a few thousand as I understand it.

Whether we would or would not retain the Privy Council would be our choice upon independence we would need to put our trust in government but just saying we wont is a bit like saying "the cheques in the mail"

Children born in the US can have dual citizenship and our Dame is cautious and believes in holding up her drawers with both belt and braces in case of her offspring perhaps.

[Slowhand on 01.07.06 at 23:25]

Ace,

So you don't think there is a red lion.... ok... but when was the last time you saw a sea monster?
lol

[Slowhand on 01.07.06 at 23:31]

So we don't have pride in our country and in our flag? What were we flying when we played 20/20 cricket? I recall seeing quite a few flags. WE ALL will pay $11 million to encourage more 'pride' in our Cricket team!!!

[RedOnion on 02.07.06 at 00:17]

"Whether we would or would not retain the Privy Council would be our choice upon independence we would need to put our trust in government ... "

Put our trust in Government? Man, that's a scary thought!

[ace on 02.07.06 at 08:42]

"Ace,
So you don't think there is a red lion.... ok... but when was the last time you saw a sea monster?
lol"

I believe it was 1983. I was at Elbow beach at about 3.30am. A friend of mine had returned from a trip abroad and had given me a small piece of blotting paper to chew on....

[Slowhand on 02.07.06 at 08:58]

That wasn't after a certain party was it? I think I heard about that.

[ace on 02.07.06 at 09:32]

Not sure man. 1983, 84 and 85 were all basically one big party.

;-)

But, I digress....back to the point you initially made about seamonsters:

Many coats of arms have gargoyles, dragons, unicorns and all manner of mythical creatures. We have a seamonster (yes we do Uncle E!!!!)...that's kind of a cool one.