Pay attention, Mr. Furbert

Today's Mid Ocean News reports Opposition Leader Wayne Furbert demanding that the Premier say whether he supported Renee Webb's bill to amend the Human Rights Act. "If you are going to show true leadership then you have to make a stand one way or the other," said Mr. Furbert yesterday. "My position is clear and I always try and be on record and tell people where I stand. But from the Premier all we get is complete silence."

Clearly Mr. Furbert didn't read last Friday's Bermuda Sun:

Premier Scott said he would have voted against Ms Webb’s bill. He said all Bermudians are already covered from discrimination under the Human Rights Act.

Open mouth, insert foot.

» According to Mr. Furbert, he was misquoted by the Mid Ocean News: "When I spoke this to the press I was not referring to the Human Rights amendment, I was referring to Col. Burch and his comments. I have been misquoted before and sometime as a politician one has to live with the results. I never demanded that the Premier say whether he supported Renee Webb’s Bill. Why would I? I knew his position as you said, he mentioned it."

Comments

[jake on 09.06.06 at 14:33]

And that dear friends, is talent.

Now that it is clear beyond a shadow of doubt that political leaders on both sides (Alex and Wayne) are far from our 'best and brightest' can we not agree that there is a need for better people in public service?

Is it not fair to say that the way in which we as participants in the media sometimes create issues where there is none, drive the talent out so that that which rises to the top is not the cream, but the scum?

Anyone else out there with me?

[Tiger Bay on 09.06.06 at 14:35]

Dumb and Dumber.

[Adjustah on 09.06.06 at 14:37]

"...drive the talent out so that that which rises to the top is not the cream, but the scum?"

Sh!t floats?

[Rossini on 09.06.06 at 14:52]

am I allowed to comment on this....??? The good Leader of the Opposition is not alone....Pat Pamplin is doing the olympic backstroke in the RG today.

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 09.06.06 at 15:01]

Of course you are, Rossini... just remember this the next time the call goes out about us lot never saying anything bad about the UBP! *grin*

[Rossini on 09.06.06 at 15:23]

Reverend I yield....the Limey wins a small, ever so small, tick in a certain box for this one.....I actually find it a little unsettling !

[silencedogood on 09.06.06 at 15:25]

Que The Furbert Soundtrack: Wa wah wah wah waaaaaah.

[Full Fullish on 09.06.06 at 15:40]

Holy crap....we are all in a consensus here!

I swear though, if I hear kumbaya being sung, I'm soooooo out of this forum! ;)

[Martin on 09.06.06 at 16:49]

If we are in concensus - it could be a short post.

[SmokingGun on 09.06.06 at 22:29]

Jake - I'm with you all the way.

[americanbermudian on 10.06.06 at 04:22]

At least there's a chance that raising politicians' pay will give smarter people the incentive to run for politics.
At this point I see no difference between the parties - they're both shit. Especially when it comes to this issue. The true leaders of our community are showing themselves right now, there's no mistaking it.
I see this as a pivotal point in Bermuda's democracy. We're so small, parties should be irrelevant. What is relevant is what you and your representatives believe in, and the capability of your representatives.
Although at this point I think I'm preaching to the choir.

[jake on 10.06.06 at 07:28]

At no other time in our history, since the introduction of poltical parties, have they shown themselves to be so inept and void of purpose.

Independents would without a doubt gain support if there was a national election along the lines of proportional representation.

I cannot claim to be a supporter of PR, but it is at times like this that I look from pig to man and from man to pig and see that I cannot tell the difference.

(note: apologies to Orwell fans)

[Bill Cook on 10.06.06 at 07:36]

Has anyone came up with an approximate hourly rate for politicians ?

That should be of greater relevance than part or full time.

Do they unlike us get paid even if they do not turn up for work ?

Is their pension contributions paid in as required by law unlike ours which are frequently millions of dollars in arrears ?

In assessing stipends do we factor in credit cards, car allowance, travel allocations, food allowance and all the other perks of office ?

It is my opinion that our politicians cost we the taxpayers quite a lot of money and we have every right to demand a bigger bang for the buck at least as much as our employers expect of us, bearing in mind that if we fail to perform our employer can fire us without waiting years for the opportunity, unlike 48% of us who cannot fire anybody at all !!

When was the last time your elected representative called on your household to inquire how you felt about the issues that affected the quality of life in Bermuda ? a phone call ? a letter ? anything at all ?

[chapa on 10.06.06 at 07:48]

I am not 100% sure butI believe I am correct in saying that on top of the allowances mentioned by Bill, that our esteemed ministers are exempt from paying customs duty. Can anyone confirm this.

[VB on 10.06.06 at 08:44]

I don't know about any other areas, but John Barritt showed up at my door a few weeks ago for a 1/2 hour chat. He seems to share the same frustration at the ineptness of the PLP that most, with good reason, on this board have.

He seems to be one of very few who try to get out every week & do a neighbouhood or 2.

[Bill Cook on 10.06.06 at 09:07]

My apologies my post should have been in the other dealing with pay increases.

[silencedogood on 10.06.06 at 10:05]

It's not pay, it's the system!

Without an incentive to do the right thing it's human nature to let things slide. Throwing money at a problem is rarely the issue.

MP's need to know they will be held accountable by an interested public who can comment on their performance, i.e. vote, more often than every 5 years or sooner if the government chooses.

[Denis Pitcher on 10.06.06 at 11:14]

We are witnessing nothing but reactive government, on both sides of the fence. All we're seeing are people jumping on the bandwagon in support of issues that should be obvious rather then being proactive and actually working to address and solve them in the first place.

Furbert's latest example is one where the UBP should have been playing the part of the opposition and instead decided to lay down and play dead because an election may be on the horizon. Our present system encourages this and it is the primary reason why we need the ability to recall ministers and government.

Why does it take a politician wanting to get out of politics before they actually act like a politician? I was not a fan of Renee Webb in her tourism and e-commerce days, but now that she has no intention of returning to politics, she's going against the grain and standing up for what she believes in. I am a fan of that. Even if you don't agree with her views, you can admit that she is finally being a real politician, which is what we need the most. The sad thing is that the one time she's worth voting for, she's jumping out of the race.

This is the whole crux of our political system. Everybody has to follow a top down approach to politics by staying within party lines and jumping on the "central committee" bandwagon. To few are ready to stand up for what they believe in and give the finger to the establishment.

I certainly hope this is a "pivotal point in Bermuda's democracy", we're in desperate need of it.

[got to go on 10.06.06 at 12:31]

If I can ignore Furbert for a second, I'd ask if Scott's statement is clear? I don't think so. He says he would have voted against it because it was already covered. Which is an ignorant statement, but that's an aside. A better question would be does he think sexual orientation should be covered under the Act. Scott's answer that it is already covered strikes me as a way to not answer and play it down the middle.

Does he or does he not support protecting sexual orientation under the Human Rights Code?

Who can tell me what Scott's position on that is?

[Charles on 10.06.06 at 14:06]

The saddest part of this whole thing is that BOTH parties have proven that neither one of them is ready to or capable of leading your country. The real power of the PLP and UBP is in the caucus or inner circle (I forget what you refered to it as).

Bermuda it is about time you scrapped your system and put out a call to any real statesman that may exist within your society to come forward and lead you into the future.

It seems that neither party will ever be free of the stigma of black vs white no matter who leads what party.

Is there anyone on your island big enough to dream and work towards building a unified Bermuda?

[Wayne Furbert on 10.06.06 at 22:44]

Limey

When I spoke this to the press I was not referring to the Human Rights amendment, I was referring to Col. Burch and his comments. I have been misquoted before and sometime as a politician one has to live with the results. I never demanded that the Premier say whether he supported Renee Webb’s Bill. Why would I? I knew his position as you said, he mentioned it.

Wayne

[Jamaican Q on 10.06.06 at 23:38]

I am sure I read where someone complained on this site, that Bermudian politicans do not keep in touch with the electorate and here it is you get a reply from one....Unbelievable! Let me not read any more complaints of that nature up in here again.

[americanbermudian on 11.06.06 at 06:41]

Wayne,
I realize Limey made a mistake there but I hope you still see the connection. Your request for an end to Premier Scott's silence on his position towards Lt. Col. Burch is currently drowned out by your party's recent silence in the House on what many people see as an extremely important human rights issue. I find it difficult to take your request seriously.

[Fraudster on 11.06.06 at 08:31]

Jamaican Q,

Are you really from Jamaica? With each additional post I read, I get a feeling that you really are an anti-independent, Bermudian UBP supporter trying to elevate his comments by pretending that he is from Jamaica.

[Wayne Furbert on 11.06.06 at 09:22]

americanbermudian

I hear you and appreciate your point. There is one thing that I would like to correct, the party did not take a position, we allowed our members to have a conscience vote.

Hoepfully people will find me honest I do not hide behind mistakes. I may not agree with you or you may not agree with me, but that is what life is about.

The good book says "come let us reason together". Our biggest problem in Bermuda is us not trying to understand each others view point. We stick our head in the sand and positions hardens and hatred builds.

This is not what we want.

I have no problem identifying who I am. We all know who Limey is but there are many who hide behind another name so that they can take cheap shots. I believe in what I say and do, maybe we should have a rule that if one wants to degrade another, there name should be known.

Is that not what you want from us in the house? To identity where we stand on issues?

Little drops of water
Little grains of sand
Make the mighty ocean
And the pleasant land

Little deeds of kindness
Little words of love
Help to make earth happy
Like heaven above

[Phil on 11.06.06 at 09:28]

Wayne

I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing that up.

[ace on 11.06.06 at 10:28]

"The good book says "come let us reason together"."

Frankly I hear way too much about what the good book says here in Bermuda.

[Jamaican Q on 11.06.06 at 10:38]

Fraudster...I am 100% Jamaican living right here in Kingston, Jamaica. I just enjoy reading this site for my own personal reasons. I just happen to love Bermuda and find their whole political game quite funny. No crime in that huh? I read up on most British Overseas Territories because I think they are oh so funny with their one man band type of politics. It is the independence argument that Bermudian politicians are bringing to the table that i find most amusing. Let me not waste this thread going on and on before Limey kicks me off....but basically..that is why i contribute to the site. Here in Jamaica you could rant and rave about politics, politicians etc....not one of them will ever write back to you or get on a blog and comment. In fact...when they read about themselves in the media down here....they dismiss everything negative and chalk it up to jealousy....starting with the Barmaid we now call a PM..

[Wayne Furbert on 11.06.06 at 13:44]

Limey

No Problem!!

I enjoy reading the comments even if it is against me, or if it is not what I agree with.

What I like is that it is ordinary people making suggestions to improve the welfare of this Beautiful Island we call home.

I want to listen I want to make life better, and where else to start with the people and not politicains who sometimes forget that they are servants of the people.

Ace mentions that he is tired of hearing about the good book, that is OK because that is his view. But, for those of us who believe in the good book than we will continue to quote when it is relevant.

As Charles Eliot said:

"In the modern world the intellegence of public opinion is the one indespensible condition of social progress"

[Charles on 11.06.06 at 16:24]

Wayne,
The problem with quoting the good book as you call it is that people tend to quote only what they need to make their point relevant. It has been pointed out many times on this blog that their are passages that that condone slavery, does that make it right just because it was written many years ago in a book that mankind is supposed to take as gospel? The good book should be used as a moral compass by those that choose to believe in God and Jesus, unfortunately governments must be secular if they are to serve all who come before it.

If you or members of your party and the other party for that matter are afraid to take a stand that might not be popular with certain groups but serve a larger purpose than maybe it is about time to step aside and let someone else take a stab at it.

[Wayne Furbert on 11.06.06 at 16:45]

Charles

I do not know how all that came out off "Come Lets Reason together".

We welcome you in the Party, if you want to meet and discuss it, there could be a seat for you, if you work hard, and if the people of the area agrees with your principles of truth and honesty.

Our Party is made up off diverse individules and that is important to Bermuda because we have different interest to protect. We base our decision on common consent. Can you imagine if we passed everything that I wanted, or if we agreed on everthing that you wanted.

So when do you want to meet? Your opinion will be welcomed in our room. Or I will give you another option, come run against me in Hamilton West and let what you said be your platform, and see how far you get.

By the way, Charles who?

[Shark on 11.06.06 at 17:14]

Not suporting something as it could alianate a group that a party may depened on is politics ,its the way politics are played out. Partys with one view ( say facists and communists) benifit from having a singuler voice on matters but parties that incorprate differnt groups have the problem of trying to forge a common senses on issues that their members feel strongly about on differnt sides of the argument.

[americanbermudian on 11.06.06 at 17:25]

Wayne thanks for taking the time to discuss this. Your leadership is definitely showing through and you sincerely care about bringing the people of Bermuda together. It’s refreshing.

Your party members were given the green light for a conscience vote but it seems like a political move. It appeared especially convenient given the possibility of an election in the near future. Indeed the combination of allowing individual conscience votes and maintaining a collective strategy of silence until hearing word from the other side of the House basically let your party get away scot free. If an individual on your side of the House did end up speaking, better risking the political future of the individual rather than the entire party…

You’re right the more discussion and the fewer personal insults, the better. I hope my earlier comment about the parties wasn’t taken personally.

For the time being there’s word of a lobbying effort that will widely publicize any suspected discrimination not covered by the HRA (racial, political, gender, sexual and anything else I've missed) - risking libel and all - in a way that members of the public will be able to reach individual conclusions and take whatever personal action deemed appropriate. The public at least is always free to vote with our conscience, our feet and our wallets.

Alex Lines

[Charles on 11.06.06 at 20:47]

Charles,
I do not know how all that came out off "Come Lets Reason together".
Wayne,
Clarification on my previous rant. You stated in a previous message;
"There is one thing that I would like to correct, the party did not take a position, we allowed our members to have a conscience vote."

While I have to believe what you say my mind asks why it was presented to the public that you all agreed to wait as a party for the current government to make their position known before any of you would speak? AND when none came forward none of you took a chance to be heard and stake out some clear territory as to what YOU truly believe.

Many people have stated that the UBP never makes their true intentions known until they gauge where the people's mindset is, and then they fall on popular opinion.

Wayne,
IF the UBP are going to take back Government then the populace of Bermuda has to believe that a true statesman has come forth with a solid idea and plan to unite all bermudians regardless of color,creed, religous status or sexual orientation. In order for that to happen it is imperative that YOU as their leader stand to the fore and strongly display to the voting public that you have a solid plan of attack for the future and a clear vision of what it holds for all of Bermuda.

It is time for the UBP to take a stand on subjects such as Independance, are you for it or against it? Never mind waiting for the public to vote in a referendum that may never come, WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE IS BEST? This is what we are waiting to find out.

[Wayne Furbert on 11.06.06 at 21:23]

"IF the UBP are going to take back Government then the populace of Bermuda has to believe that a true statesman has come forth with a solid idea and plan to unite all bermudians regardless of color,creed, religous status or sexual orientation".

Charles I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!

You are correct the UBP needs to say were it stands on important issues.

Currently our position is that WE SUPPORT A REFERENDUM SO THAT THE PEOPLE CAN DECIDE. WE ALSO STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT A REFERENDUM NEEDS TO BE HELD SEPARATE FROM AN ELECTION.

I have heard you and many others SAY that we need to TAKE a stand for, or against. I have heard you loud and clear and will take your comments back to our caucus for discussion.

Charles, it has been a pleasure speaking with you and others via this medium, and appreciate everyone’s thoughts.

Take Care

“We have a Vision for Bermuda”

[Forest Gump on 11.06.06 at 22:23]

Wayne Furbert writes

"Currently our position is that WE SUPPORT A REFERENDUM SO THAT THE PEOPLE CAN DECIDE. WE ALSO STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT A REFERENDUM NEEDS TO BE HELD SEPARATE FROM AN ELECTION."

So you'd be completely satisfied if the electorate chose to do something you feel is very dangerous to our future, just as long as that decision is made via a referendum? Talking about the pros and cons of independence is just way to controversial, divisive and suicidal, for the UBP isn't it?

[Jamaican Q on 11.06.06 at 22:33]

The perils of being a politician....let's say there was no referendum and the current administration went ahead and made a decision WITHOUT consulting the electorate....you would crucify them wouldn't you? But suppose a referendum results in the electorate choosing something which a few people are against...who would you crucify then? It is assumed that the electorate would have formulated opinions and weighed the pros and cons prior to voting (that's what normal people do) and then choose their fate....How can you please the enitre electorate? Solutions for some will become problems for others...so you have to create a balance...Regarding the independence issue...there should be a referendum to put a lid on this now boring issue don't you think?

[Wayne Furbert on 12.06.06 at 07:33]

Forest Cump writes

"Talking about the pros and cons of independence is just way to controversial, divisive and suicidal, for the UBP isn't it?"

No not at all. We went thru these pros and cons exercise ourselves in 1994, when the PLP had most of their supporters stay at home.

When we look at the BIC report as far as we are concern there is nothing new.

Since the last referendum countries are becoming more interdependent and the British Government has given our people greater options. That option is to live and work anywhere in the European community. Why would any Government want to take that option away from future generations?

The PLP has not given any strong reasons to go independent at this time, other than a song and a flag. But what happens after the last word is sung and the flag comes down after the celebration? We will still have issues such as housing, senior care, educational etc problems, and we will not be able to work and live in the UK. That does not sound like a good reason to go Independent to me.

Our polls continue to show that the people do not want independence. The PLP try to make the argument that we will control out own destiny. Nonsense, we will have to get approval or negotiate many situations and if the other party says no, do you thing we controlled our destiny or the other party?

The people of Bermuda are smart enough to decide what they want not politicians who sometimes make decision for ego building.

NO more ego building peoples lives and destinies are at stake.

[Adjustah on 12.06.06 at 09:12]

"But suppose a referendum results in the electorate choosing something which a few people are against...who would you crucify then?"

Myself.

[SmokingGun on 12.06.06 at 09:35]

"I have no problem identifying who I am. We all know who Limey is but there are many who hide behind another name so that they can take cheap shots. I believe in what I say and do, maybe we should have a rule that if one wants to degrade another, there name should be known."
- Wayne Furbert

Mr. Furbert, just as long as you recognize the difference between a cheap shot and a pot shot I have no problem with that. But to be honest with you it's been getting a little too easy to take shots at our politicians of late. Hopefully you will continue to shed the kind of insight that you just did on your thoughts on independence. Now it wasn't that hard was it?

BTW: You'll probably now be qouted in tomorrow's RG verbatim. ;-)

[SarahT on 12.06.06 at 09:58]

I was thinking the same thing, Smoking Gun

[RedOnion on 12.06.06 at 10:33]

After the events of the last few years regarding the performance of the Government it is refreshing to see the Leader of the Opposition actually conversing with the voters. I haven't seen my MP for several years at my doorstep, neither have I seen anyone from the UBP looking for support. The last time I tried to talk with an MP on the street he was too busy to chat.
We need elected officials who will get back to the streets and talk with us, I remember clearly that this was one of the problems with the UBP in the late 90's, they lost touch with the people and consequently lost the election. Perhaps you and your associates will take heed of that Mr Furbert, never forget the lessons from the past. Looking forward to the opportunity to bump into you and bend your ear, perhaps you can buy me coffee, know of a good coffee shop? :)

[Bill Cook on 12.06.06 at 13:09]

Red Onion,

I could not agree with you more and it is refreshing to have a leader of opp so freely exchanging ideas so openly.

In fact I did have a visit from my local UBP rep a few weeks ago here in Paget so things are moving forward it seems.

As the most neglected area in Bermuda maybe we will even see a new post office before the end of the century, too late for me but maybe not for my grandchildrens children !

[Forest Gump on 12.06.06 at 13:10]

"No not at all. We went thru these pros and cons exercise ourselves in 1994, when the PLP had most of their supporters stay at home."

Is this the same exercise that split your party down the middle and resulted in the forced resignation of your longest-running leader?

"The people of Bermuda are smart enough to decide what they want not politicians who sometimes make decision for ego building."

A retard is smart enough to decide what they want. But that doesn't mean that it's the best decision. If you feel so strongly about the reasons to remain a colonly, why isn't your party out there campaigning against independence? Why hasn't the UBP adopted a strong anti-independence position? What is totally lost on me is why the UBP finds it impossible to take a strong pro-referendum position and a strong anti-independence position at the same time. It really isn't that complicated, and the two are completely separate issues. If you want voters to respect your leadership, then stop doing the two-step.

[SmokingGun on 12.06.06 at 13:31]

Forest - I thought your mother taught you better manners. I personally find the R word as offensive as the N word.

Other than that, I agree the individuals in the UBP should do just as Furby did and state their personal beliefs on the issue as they don't really need a party standing. After all a referendum is based on an individual's decision.

[RedOnion on 12.06.06 at 14:02]

Bill, as you know the Paget Post Office has been talked about and discussed 'in committee' for years. I cannot understand what has taken so long with that project, it's beyond belief. Didn't take them long to knock down the old yellow cottage across the road though, a Sunday morning demolition job rather than deal with the vagrant squatting there.

I do agree that Paget has been neglected, strangely enough it has been a UBP stronghold, perhaps that has some bearing on it.

[Bill Cook on 12.06.06 at 14:11]

Not only retards are smart enough to know what they want some pretty savvy people are also.

What the retards who support independence are incapable of doing is listing in any order 5 GOOD reasons for going independent.

I have been asking the strongest proponents for independence that for some time now without success.

WILL THE REAL RETARDS PLEASE STAND UP ?

[RedOnion on 12.06.06 at 14:16]

Not today Bill, the independance supporters are enjoying a day off courtesy of the Queen!!!

[SmokingGun on 12.06.06 at 14:41]

Bill, maybe the appropriate word should be "Moron". In Greek mythology, Moros ("doom") was the personification of impending doom and destruction. (Wikipedia)

RedOnion - LOL too funny. BTW when's P's b'day. Want to make sure I have plans off island. Just in case.

[jake on 12.06.06 at 16:41]

"NO more ego building peoples lives and destinies are at stake."

And no more punctuation, I assmume...