Shadow Cabinet approval ratings: Poll results

Over the last two weeks, I’ve been running a survey asking how satisfied you are with the way the members of the UBP Shadow Cabinet are handling their jobs.

The results are shown in the graph and table below. The scores for each politician were computed by awarding 2 points for each vote of ‘very satisfied’, 1 point for ‘satisfied’, no points for ‘neither satisfied nor dissatisfied’, -1 point for ‘dissatisfied’ and -2 points for ‘very dissatisfied’. These scores were then turned into percentages from -100% (everyone ‘very dissatisfied’) to +100% (everyone ‘very satisfied’) by dividing by the maximum possible score (since 141 votes were cast for each MP, this was +/- 282 points).

	V.Sat	Sat	Neither	Dissat	V.Dissat	Score	%age
Michael Dunkley	46	44	29	16	6	108	38%
Louise Jackson	47	47	22	12	13	103	37%
Patricia Gordon-Pamplin	35	47	32	17	10	80	28%
David Dodwell	21	48	36	28	8	46	16%
Suzann Roberts-Hol.	24	38	48	22	9	46	16%
Jamahl Simmons	16	39	44	23	19	10	4%
Trevor Moniz	10	38	54	27	12	7	2%
Jon Brunson	9	29	67	23	13	(2)	(1%)
Maxwell Burgess	6	34	63	20	18	(10)	(4%)
Wayne Furbert	15	30	41	39	16	(11)	(4%)
Cole Simons	4	13	68	40	16	(51)	(18%)
Neville Darrell	6	18	46	44	27	(68)	(24%)

141 votes cast

Topping the poll was Deputy Leader and Shadow Minister Without Portfolio, Michael Dunkley. Louise Jackson, Shadow Minister of Health and Seniors, and Patricia Gordon-Pamplin, Shadow Minister of Finance, also scored highly.

At the bottom, unsurprisingly, was Shadow Education Minister Neville Darrell. Although he may be quietly beavering away doing great things, publicly he’s been almost invisible. Education is one of the areas in which the current government is weakest, yet Mr. Darrell has consistently failed to exploit this. On the few occasions when he has spoken publicly, he has sometimes demonstrated poor knowledge of the facts. Opposition Leader Wayne Furbert should replace him with someone more capable.

However the UBP should perhaps be most concerned by the score garnered by Mr. Furbert himself. His overall score, while only slightly negative, was the third worst of all Shadow Ministers. This suggests that in the four months since becoming leader, Mr. Furbert has failed to make an impact. Recent polls for the Royal Gazette have suggested the same.

The UBP’s scores are generally higher than those obtained by members of the Cabinet earlier this year. This does not mean that you think the UBP would make a better Government than the PLP. It could mean that you think the UBP are doing a better job in Opposition than the PLP are in Government. However, perhaps because the actions of members of the Government have more impact on us, members of the Cabinet tend to be more visible than the members of the Shadow Cabinet. The large number of responses in the “neither satisfied nor dissatisfied” category suggests that there’s not enough information about what some UBP MPs are doing to decide whether they’re doing a good job or not.

In my opinion, the responsibilities of a member of the Shadow Cabinet are to critique the performance of the Minister they are shadowing, come up with innovative ideas for tackling the issues in their portfolio, and, where appropriate, to work with members of the Government to effect change. It is in the interest of the Shadow Minister to do all of these things publicly. If critiques are rendered in private, the Shadow Minister may be perceived by the public as ineffective. If ideas are reserved until election time, the public may mistake them for cynical electioneering. If cooperation with the Government is performed behind closed doors, the public may think that the Opposition are always critical, never constructive.

Thus, part of the job of a member of the Shadow Cabinet is also to make himself heard. If I don’t know whether a Shadow Minister is doing a good job or not, as far as I am concerned that means he isn’t.

The readers of this site are probably some of the most politically-aware people in Bermuda. If even you don’t know what half the members of the UBP are up to, what hope for the rest of the population?

In my opinion, the UBP’s biggest failure continues to be a failure to communicate. The Shadow Ministers need to devote more energy to making themselves heard.

Comments

[Teacher on 28.06.06 at 20:31]

The opposition is in breach of the Trade Descriptions Act, and doubly so. It is neither functioning as an effective opposition nor as an effective party. Throughout its modern history, the party has regarded itself both as the national party and as the natural party of government. Believing that it ought to be almost constantly in power, it has found opposition an unnatural and frustrating state of affairs and one it has yet to fathom.

[Enigma on 28.06.06 at 21:45]

I am forced to agree with 'teacher.' I find it ironic that I am only the second person to comment on your post. It is quite obvious that very few people are satisfied with the roll of the so called 'opposition.'

They seem to be afraid of their own shadows and are reluctant to make very loud noises about the numerous abuses of power and obvious corrupt practises being enacted on a daily basis by our dictatorial leaders. There are a few exceptions that give a glimmer of hope, namely John Barritts polite tirade over the obvious total lack of support for independance by 60 -70% of Bermudians but what is lacking is a a committed 'party' approach to these glaring issues.

The only other member of the UBP who truly speaks his mind on a regular basis is senator Kim Swan who is one of the most visible faces of the party on a daily basis.

It is very hard for the foot soldiers to follow weak and ineffective leaders. We need strong leadership and we need the opposition to tell us what they stand for so we can decide if we want to follow.

At least we know what the Scott government stands for and their committment to their beliefs is so strong that they have no problem in ignoring the opinions of the majority of Bermudians. As for the UBP, I'm not really sure what they believe in and if they ever figure it out, I don't know if they will have the nerve to tell the rest of us poor Bermudians.

Oh well, perhaps a PLP dictatorship won't be so bad after all.

[Bill Cook on 28.06.06 at 22:06]

Let us hope that they read these results and take them to heart.

I think we would respect those who stood up and took a strong stand for what is morally correct not what is politically expedient this would be a good start and they may be surprised to find respect even from die hard PLP supporters who are not happy at the state of affairs.

I know this to be true as I have many friends who are PLP supporters and they are very conservative and nobodies fools.

[Ali on 29.06.06 at 10:45]

Dear Enigma,
We are already in a dictatorship, one where the Government is systematically removing the checks and balances of our system (note today's move by the AG on pay rises). Under any dictatorship it becomes more difficult for an opposition to be effective and although I agree that there are some weak links in the UBP there are others who do speak out and Limey's poll bears it out. If we want to oust this corrupt Government then it is as much up to the people as it is the Opposition to do so, votes are won at the doorstep, not in the newspapers. If you don't know what the UBP stands for I suggest you read Grant Gibbons' reply to the throne speach.

[lost in flatts on 29.06.06 at 12:42]

As most have recognised, the next election will be the UBP's fight to lose. It's not possible for Burch and co to give them all that much more ammunition, it all comes down to having the mettle to use. Bermudians don't want all this politiking, this fear of saying what you truly think because you're worried you're going to lose votes. The UBP need to sit in a big room and sort out what their stance is on the major issues, such as independence, housing, health care, pensions, accountability and so forth, and then get out in the public and make it known. If someone asks you what the UBP stand for, what is the answer?

The PLP have proven themselves to be incapable, incompetent and just a whisker away from fully corrupt. If the opposition cannot seize upon this and offer the people their desired alternative, then they don't deserve to get back into power, and they won't.

[ken on 29.06.06 at 13:45]

"The PLP have proven themselves to be incapable, incompetent and just a whisker away from fully corrupt. If the opposition cannot seize upon this and offer the people their desired alternative, then they don't deserve to get back into power, and they won't."

I am sorry, I understand it is your opinion that they are incapable and incompetent, but i really don't understand how many of you persist with this Corruption charge. It is an unfounded allegation. I think it makes you all feel better to brandish them as corrupt.

Contrary to your beliefs, I don't think the election is the UBPs to win or lose. The PLP will be fine, because most people realize there is no real alternative. Even if the PLP doesn't do anything else that you deem correct over the next 2 years, the UBP refuses to take a stance on anything, and therefore there is no confidence in their abilities at all.

The attacks from the UBP and its supporters revolve around the same things - Berkeley, Independence, Housing, and the MPs salaries. Most Bermudians are tired of hearing of the Berkeley project - it is over! The UBP has no stance on independence - they just don't want us talking about it because its not under their terms. Housing is on everyone's minds, but most right thinking Bermudians know that it is an issue that we ALL must solve together regardless who the govt is, and the MPs salaries to me shouldn't be an argument. Yes they deserve more. The only reason the Opposition is against it is because they want to champion the cause and not look money hungry, but aside from John Barritt & Michael Dunkley (whose families are synonymous with money) the rest of the Opp MPs haven't said Yea or Nay to whether they would accept them.

Yes the more I think about it, the PLP government will be re-elected rather comfortably.

[SmokingGun on 29.06.06 at 14:05]

ken - for real? That's all you could come up with for why the vast majority of Bermudians are disenchanted with our current government?
Come on my friend have another go at it.....

Here, let me help you get started:
Burch and his verbal abuse.
Burch and his power abuse.
Brown and his plantation whatever.
Brown and his 'what I know is for you to find out".
Scott and his "They know not what they sign" language.
4 years in arrears.
$800 million: We know we spent it but we just can't tell you how.

to be continued....

[Onion on 29.06.06 at 15:18]

SmokingGun,

What Ken is saying is that despite any deficiencies in the PLP the UBP are so woefully spineless and non-descript that they shall remain in the Opposition.

People always want to talk about the "planation comment" or the "house n----r" comment. I don't condone them but I think you are being a little OTT to attach so much weight to them.

Let me tell you something that is more potent and destructive than any of those comments. Last week the RBYC hosted the Newport to Bermuda yacht race and 100 year celebrations. The celebrations were attended by Princess Anne, the Governor, Premier and members of RBYC. I can assure you that very few blacks were made a part of these celebrations. I doubt even school kids (public school) were allowed in to experience what this was all about. You might say that it is a private club and can do as it pleases. But it is also a club that only allowed in members who were sponsored by existing members. This has always kept out most blacks. Only a few are members today. Some of the white members are UBP MPs. I don't recall any of them complaining that there are no photos of blacks on the hallowed RBYC walls.

I am not saying that RBYC represents all white people or UBP members. Of course not. In the same way, Burch does not represent all black people or all PLP members. But when most black people, and some white people, witness events like this they are reminded of the old Bermuda and they are reminded that some institutions remain pretty much unchanged even in 2006. The UBP, rightly or wrongly, still carries the baggage of its past. The UBP of today stand for NOTHING and so by default the public is left to attach them to their past, notwithstanding the Jamahl Simmons or Cole Simons in their ranks.

[eastender on 29.06.06 at 16:37]

Onion: "I can assure you that very few blacks were made a part of these celebrations."

Hahahahahaha.
Premier, Brown are made honorary RBYC members

[Ali on 29.06.06 at 16:58]

Onion, Last week RBYC was open to anybody, all you had to do was show up. Likewise anybody can join a golf club, just pay the fee. I think that this 'exclusion' is more perception than reality and financially related rather than racially motivated. You will also find that the junior sailing programs which are supported by the RBYC and RHADC have increasing numbers of black children who are doing very well, they will progress into the Bermuda Sloop Foundation program. I think your comments are probably 20 years out of date.

[Teacher on 29.06.06 at 17:05]

Thanks Ali,

It was good to hear the facts and also what what was happening at grass roots level.

[SmokingGun on 29.06.06 at 17:17]

Onion, when the list is complete then you are correct, Burch and Brown's verbage will become just mere footnotes to the volume of failures.

I would tend to agree with Ali with regard to RBYC. Guess what, I'm white, I sail big boats and I have as much in common with the elite members of the RBYC as I do with a squished toad in the road. Actually seeing as I've been squished in the road a few times I guess I have to side with the toads. My family has been a long-standing member of the Royal Dinghy Club more for the Bingo than anything else. Sure I'll visit the Royal Boring Yacht Club when the big events are on but I'm not one for cliques no matter what colour pants they wear or how much money's in their pocket. BTW - have you ever noticed that half the time one of the old salts opens their wallet a bunch of moths fly out? ;-)

[JJ on 29.06.06 at 17:18]

Onion
the RBYC was open to non members last week and I saw loads and loads of black people there. There were also many black people at the free music event last Saturday at the park next to the RBYC and people could go between the two.

[Onion on 30.06.06 at 09:28]

Let's not be silly in thinking that RBYC's mostly white membership is only due to finances. There are plenty of black people in 2006 that could afford the membership fees. I am not talking about how may blacks attend one of their booze ups. I am talking about how many are members. I am not 20 years out of date. I was there recently for an official function and other than the waiter and the bartender, out of about 60 people attending I was the only black. If the RBYC is open to all people, the general public doesn't know or appreciate this.

Perception is everything.

I repeat, just like many of you perceive the PLP to be racist because of the comments of a few, the UBP continue to hold the baggage of their past because they have NOT defined where they stand on anything. As such, by default, rightly or wrongly, people still attach the UBP to the old white elite clubs because this is the playground of the founding UBP fathers as well as that of many of the senior UBP politicians and members. This is one of the reasons the UBP will likely remain in the Opposition for the foreseable future.

[Bill Cook on 30.06.06 at 09:46]

I am not sure what most of this has to do with the political ratings of the opposition but as long as Limey does thats fine.

Clubs are more often more to do with Elitism than Racism and birds of a feather tend to flock together as I tried to point out in a deleted post.

[Michael Taylor on 30.06.06 at 09:57]

Onion,

You seem to think that having club memberships which accurately reflect the racial makeup of the country is imperative and that some clubs are not moving in the right direction quick enough. What do you propose RBYC do that they aren't already doing? What do you propose predominantly black clubs like the West End Sailboat Club do that they aren't already doing?

The UBP is taking a lot of criticism of late for not standing up for any position. Prior to Mr. Furbert's taking the leadership this did not seem to be the case to me. However, the UBP was then as they are now painted with a racist, elitist brush due to the baggage of Bermuda's past. The fact is, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. It seems to me that this kind of frustration is really taking a toll with nobody in the party knowing exactly what, if anything, they could ever do to convince the public that they really won't take them back to the plantation.

[Onion on 30.06.06 at 09:57]

Elitism and racism go hand in hand in Bermuda. A middle class white is more likely to be invited to be a member than an upper class black.

[Onion on 30.06.06 at 10:03]

Michael, read my posts above. I am talking about perception. Rightly or wrongly (as I said repeatedly above) this is still how the UBP is perceived. People still attach the UBP to those elite clubs. Forget about West End sail boat club. Black clubs never kept out whites.

Very rarely does the UBP take a stand on anything. The public are left to fill in the gaps as they see fit.

The UBP are to commended for finally seeking to discuss the social issues of the country. But remember, David Dodwell was to be in charge of a race relations review committee set up by the UBP. That was like 4 years ago. What was done over that time up until now? Nothing.

It's not about "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

They ain't done NOFFIN'!

[Wouldn'tjoinaclubthatwouldhaveme on 30.06.06 at 10:25]

Onion - in recent years has the RBYC or any of "Bermuda's elite clubs" declined to admit a black prospective member?

You seem to be confused by the admission process that is pretty standard practice at most private clubs worldwide: prospective members are not invited, they seek to join and are "sponsored" by existing members.

[Onion on 30.06.06 at 10:35]

That "sponsorship" kept most blacks out!(I don't know why you all are are trying to beat around the bush with this one.) Whites traditionally did not want them as members and this is reflective of the club membership today. The RBYC is not just an exclusive club. It is an exclusive elite white club that was the playground of the architects of segregation. That may have changed slightly today but the stigma still exists and is still attached to the UBP.

[Wouldn'tjoinaclubthatwouldhaveme on 30.06.06 at 10:44]

Understood.

[Onion on 30.06.06 at 10:55]

But this can change IF the UBP was more proactive in taking a stand on important issues (eg. Independence, the Webb Bill) instead of waiting on Walton Brown's poll results.

The UBP needs to define itself if it wants to shed its old baggage then they must do it.

Politics is like Cup Match.

Right now St. Georges have the cup (they won last year). Somerset must go out their way to WIN the cup back. If it's a draw, St. Georges still keep the cup.

Right now the PLP have the Cup.

[SmokingGun on 30.06.06 at 11:22]

"Forget about West End sail boat club. Black clubs never kept out whites." = PLP

"The RBYC is not just an exclusive club. It is an exclusive elite white club that was the playground of the architects of segregation. That may have changed slightly today but the stigma still exists and is still attached to the UBP." = UBP

Onion - Which is more a true reflection of today? 2006. Or are we simply talking semantics here and both our parties are just as bad as each other.

[sleepy on 30.06.06 at 11:28]

Onion's right. RBYC, Mid Ocean, Coral Beach were exclusive and continue to be (but to a lesser extent on race).

Where I think he muddies things is that it was, and to a lesser extent still is, exclusive within race but also gender but mostly $$$. RBYC used to have a separate entrance for women. It's a broader elitism than just race.

These clubs are about elites. Not white elites. Elites.

I've never been invited to join any of these clubs and I'm white, male, UBP but not rolling in cash...and I don't sail or play tennis and am a horrible golfer.

However, the PLP does their best to ensure that the idea of UBP and RBYC etc are one in the same. Mostly it's about perception and an enduring legacy of these clubs which the PLP need to remain at the forefront of people's minds, relevant or not.

[Michael Taylor on 30.06.06 at 11:32]

Onion,

I have to be honest and say that I do have trouble understanding your posts which is why I have posted so many questions. Perhaps I should have posted this question to you first:
Do you think that having club memberships which accurately reflect the racial makeup of the country is imperative and that some clubs are not moving in the right direction quick enough?
If your answer is YES, my previous questions would be looking for an answer if you have the time.
Interestingly you don't say that white clubs need to do anything but then take an indirect shot at them by saying to forget about black clubs because they never kept whites out. I am confused. You writing implies that white clubs need to be doing some unspecified things to at least change public perception, because of the sins of their pasts. If not, then why bring this up?

In my opinion the UBP has done a lot more than they have gotten credit for in the opposition, especially in comparison to our present government. Let's say that Mr. Dodwell really did NOTHING over the past 4 years, just for the sake of argument. What has the PLP done for race realtions in Bermuda over the past 8 years? PLENTY! Sent us back to the 60's for one. Surely that counts as negative points, which would put Mr. Dodwell miles ahead of his government counterparts. I don't expect you to admit that they really will never be able to satisfy a portion of our population fixated on Bermuda's racist past, no matter what they do. That's OK. I know it, and they know it too. I think what we are seeing is a party grasping at straws willing to try anything to find something that might convince people they aint power hungry racists and Uncle Toms. I think we are seeing a party which is becoming fatigued by the frustration of fighting a seemingly unwinnable battle. One has to ask the question, if the UBP can be twice as good as the PLP and still not win an election (my opinion - mostly due to the strongly negative score I would give the PLP), what hope do they really have? Are they giving up? I hope not.

I am not a supprter of any political party but, I am a very strongly against our current government (I am told that this GOVERNMENT or at least its LEADERSHIP has nothing to do with it's PARTY so I won't mention it's name). Many people such as myself are very upset with the UBP for their performance so far in opposition and have not been afraid to say it(particularly recently when I would agree that they are not demonstrating themselves to be competent OR courageous OR better than the govt. ONLY not as wicked). One big reason many have been so vocal about this is because we know that they are going to have to be SUPERHUMAN to convince the increasingly propagandised masses that the UBP really isn't going to give all the money to the rich white elite, or whatever going back to the plantation is supposed to mean. I personally would not translate this criticism as meaning the UBP has done nothing.

[Michael Taylor on 30.06.06 at 11:50]

Onion,

"That "sponsorship" kept most blacks out!" I think you will find that all private clubs have this kind of policy. If you or a friend would like to join the RBYC and do not know a member to sponsor you in, please email me and I would say we should easily be able to find many people willing to sponsor him/her/you. I am not an RBYC member but I certainly know enough members, most of whom lament the lopsided racial composition of all our sailing organisations and are ready to welcome all comers with open arms. If they like me don't have the cash and aren't interested in that kind of atmosphere anyway, send them my way too and I will gladly introduce them to members of some of our working class boating/sailing clubs be it West End Sailboat Club or St. Georges Dinghy and Sailboat Club or any of the clubs in between.

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 30.06.06 at 11:51]

Couple of things...

You guys really missed the point of lost in flatts' post, didn't you?

He was saying exactly what you're saying, that the UBP is a toothless lion, but...

Ok.. here's the way those posts read to me.

"The UBP is a toothless lion. The PLP has fucked up so bad that a decent Party could swoop in and take the election."

"How can you say that? You are completely wrong! The PLP HAS fucked up, but the UBP won't win because they're a toothless lion!"

You guys really need to stop kneejerking and actually read the posts and decipher what they're trying to say.

"Most Bermudians are tired of hearing of the Berkeley project - it is over!"

It's over? So we just are supposed to forget about this fuck up? This waste of our money? This pack of lies and, yes, corruption?
It's over, so just shut up about it?
Ok. That's great advice. If something is over, we shut up about it and forget it.
Hmmm... let's see. Surely there are other things that are over, but people keep talking about it, bringing it up all the time... Don't tell me.. I know this one. GAH! It's on the tip of my tongue.. wait.. wait... I'll get it.

And Onion? Couple things. First, the RBYC.. um.. ISN'T IN CHARGE OF RUNNING THE COUNTRY!
Second, if perception is everything, why is it that, when it is brought up that the PLP is an all black party, you don't decry those that oh-so vehemently deny this? In fact, if I'm not mistaken, you are one of them.
The RBYC being predominantly white is neither here nor there, when talking about politics.

And, according to ken, we're not allowed to talk about segregation days or the time when the RBYC excluded blacks... "It's over."

[observor on 30.06.06 at 12:13]

Onion

Your information is 20 years out of date as there are an increasing number of black RBYC members, one of whom is currently a flag officer on his way to becoming commodore.

Your perception needs to catch up with reality.

[james on 30.06.06 at 13:02]

Next election:
Most bermudians will not come out to vote as they are disgusted by the last 15 years of poor government and think that there is no point in voting cause nothing changes. And that will affect a lot of the PLP votes. I think we will be lucky to get more than 55% of the voting public out to vote. So rather than being a huge turn out and land slide, most will say forget it and see where the cards fall.

[The Limey on 30.06.06 at 13:41]

While some may still associate the RBYC and other private clubs with the UBP, the racial makeup of the membership of such clubs is, at best, tangential to this thread. As far as I am aware, the Shadow Cabinet are not responsible for the policies of such clubs.

This thread is about how well the members of the UBP Shadow Cabinet are doing their jobs.

[Michael H. Dunkley. on 02.07.06 at 16:55]

Interesting reading the comments on the Shadow Cabinet poll that was conducted on this site, even though most of them did not really deal with the poll itself.
In reading the comments under this heading and other comments that have been posted on Limey in Bermuda it is apparent that there are many who are not happy with both the Government and the Opposition. My comment to those unhappy with the current elected Members is to get involved. While I feel there are many good Members that are currently serving in the House, there is certainly room for improvement. This island will be better served if more people get involved with politics. Bermuda is a small place and thus you can make a difference.
For those who do not have the desire to get involved but do care about the island and how the people's business is handled you should hold your elected Members accountable by contacting them with your thoughts and concerns on issues.
To me Bermuda is still paradise, we need to do whatever we can to keep it that way.
It has been said many times before that there are three types of people: Those that makes things happen, those who watch things happen and those who wonder what happened. It is my opinion that we have too few people in the first group and too many people in the second and third groups
Let's change that.

[Teacher on 03.07.06 at 07:31]

Mr Dunkley,
Thanks for your recent comments. I am glad to see that you are frequenting this little corner of Bermudian Politics.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 03.07.06 at 09:51]

Mr. Dunkley,

I agree that persons should get involved but how does one truly get involved if not through a political party? There are many who are extremely disappointed in the PLP and some of the reason, I believe are valid, as I believe the PLP has had the opportunity to do more than has been done.

That being said, the only other option is the UBP and the UBP has yet to show any leadership whatsoever. I do not disagree that politicians should understand the electorate, however, the electorate also supports a party based on the goals of that party. How can anyone support the UBP when from day-to-day no one knows where the UBP stands on issues affecting Bermuda?

If the UBP want to be seeing as a Goverment in waiting then I think the UBP needs to stand up and be counted. Stop waiting in the wings to find out what the electorate feel and take party positions on matters affecting Bermuda. The UBP is simply sitting on the fence and waiting to see where the majority of the electorate reside on any issue and then the party tries to convince people that it has taken a stance.

Sure politicians work for the people but people also look to politicians for leadership.

So stop showing insecurity as a party and state, very clearly what the UBP positions are and stop trying to simply pandy to the majority of the electorate hoping they will cast their votes for you.

Maybe if the UBP would show some backbone the above ratings would be a whole lot better.

I may be a PLP supporter but first and foremost I want what's best for my country and that goes beyond political party support.

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 03.07.06 at 11:02]

Guilden,

I can't disagree with you here.
Well said.

[lost in flatts on 03.07.06 at 11:35]

Guilden: Spot on.