The battle of Nuremburg

Well, Portugal’s fiery victory over the Netherlands - coupled with England’s hanging-on-by-their-fingernails dismissal of Ecuador - has set up the World Cup quarter-final that many Bermudians will have been dreaming of: England versus Portugal.

And thanks to the red cards given to Portugal’s Deco and Costinha, the injury received by Ronaldo, and the possibility of disciplinary action against Figo for his needless headbutt of Van Bommel, I can’t help but wonder if maybe – just maybe – England has a chance.

Comments

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 25.06.06 at 22:18]

Limey,

Even with all that I still have my doubts as to whether England has a chance. The reality is that to date they really have not played any country that coming into the World Cup was even in the same class as football nations and they have a difficult time scoring goals.

I think even without Deco and Costinha and possibly Ronaldo and Figo, Potugal have a more capable team. Maybe improved competition will force England to "play" because so far they have been a mediocre team, which I think is indicative of U.K. football. Let's face it the strength of the EPL is not coming from English born players.

Good luck to your boys anyway.

[#9 on 25.06.06 at 23:04]

Its gonna be the best game of the world cup in terms of atmosphere here in Bermuda. I can only think of what would have happened if the game today was versuses England! The fights would have jumped from teh big screen into our pubs! England may have played bad up to now but were here in the QF...i really hope we play good and win big time, im getting a little tired of seeing 1,000,000 portuguese flags coming towards me as i drive down the road!
GO ENGLAND!!!
roo...roo...ROOOOOONNNNEEEYY!!

[Bundy & Coke on 26.06.06 at 01:10]

I didn't see the Portugal Holland game... what was the headbutt all about? Was it intentional?

[Adjustah on 26.06.06 at 05:19]

...and the Lord said, let there be no work done in Bermuda that day, at all...

[Martin on 26.06.06 at 06:19]

If you look back, England survives until they play a previous World Cup winner.

We shall see.

[D'Olivier on 26.06.06 at 06:44]

The omens are good for the Portuguese to win:
Scolari, as coach, has beaten England in WC 2002 (Brazil 2 England 1) and Euro 2004 (2-2, penalty shoot out win). Portugal beat England in Euro 2000 3-2. BUT England beat Portugal in 1986 1-0.

Portugal have only allowed 1 goal in the tourney, beat Mexico with their B side and held off the Dutch with 9 men. We have a good chance of beating England. But then again, in football, anything can happen.

[Phil on 26.06.06 at 07:58]

D'Olivier

Portugal... held off the Dutch with 9 men.

True, but the Dutch had 10 men at the time, and soon after they were down to 9 too.

[Njegos on 26.06.06 at 08:21]

It was definitely an intentional head-butt against van Bommel which the referee didn't spot. There was speculation that Figo would be suspended once officials viewed the replay but I haven't seen anything about it this morning. Maybe they prefer to bury the matter in view of "extenutating circumstances" - Sepp Blatter has already attacked the referee for his inconsistent performance which he clearly feels contributed to the players' anger. I certainly thought the Deco red card was overdone.

I'm with Guilden. Despite its current form, I think England will play well (they usually do against tough opponents) but my money is with Portugal.

[Njegos on 26.06.06 at 08:22]

Oh and Guilden....I am buying my Argentina flag from the Music Box today.

[sandgrownan on 26.06.06 at 08:41]

At least we'll be able to spend part of the day without the insidious sound of hedge trimmers and strimmers.

[fly girl on 26.06.06 at 08:50]

What a game!!! Dirty would be the word used to describe that one. We'll see whether England pull up their socks, cause they've been quite boring thus far. I guess no one will be working on Saturday, but the pubs will be happy.

[loki on 26.06.06 at 09:01]

I'll be supporting England, of course, but remain unconvinced that they can pull off a win against Portugal. They've been underwhelming, to say the least, so far. Yesterday's game was ridiculous: what the hell is this business of Rooney being the only forward?

[D'Olivier on 26.06.06 at 09:10]

Njegos,

The assistant referee spotted the headbutt, and Figo was given a yellow card. FIFA have confirmed this morning that since the call was spotted on the field, then they will take no further action. It was certainly a red-cardable offence. Figo is a lucky, lucky man.

Limey,

Yes, technically, Holland were down to nine men as well at the end of ninety minutes. They had enough time to do something positive (and I use that term very loosely) with the extra man, but they failed. Ah well. Hopefully, the Dutch will sort themselves out in a few years' time, I like seeing them play. They should cut out the ~#"?@@£* diving, though.

[observor on 26.06.06 at 09:58]

...and the Lord said, let there be no work done in Bermuda that day, at all...and the Lord answered our prayers ensuring the game would be scheduled for 12pm this Saturday!

[young1 on 26.06.06 at 09:58]

On the matter of diving I agree totally with D'Olivier Robben has had a bad reputation since he came to England and Kuyt seemed even worse. I commend Portugal as well as I remember being less than impressed with them in past matches.

On limeys thread earlier about atmosphere in Bermuda, this is possibly the one match that I would rather be in Bermuda for than England particularly at the moment when the token last minute winner from the head of an English defender is finally ruled as a valid goal.

My biggest concern is that Rooney’s metatarsal and Portuguese defenders don’t mix very well.

[Simon on 26.06.06 at 10:07]

I am disappointed that I am going on vacation Thursday - the atmosphere in the Hood next weekend will be awesome. I'm not sure where they are going to put everyone - maybe they will have to take all the tables out of the restaurant and make it standing room only!

About 50 odd Portuguese turned up in the Hood on Saturday after their gameled by a set of drums, so on came the "Vindaloo" song and the remaining england supporters of which there were still many, gave it back in spades.
What craic!

[SmokingGun on 26.06.06 at 11:36]

With all the lame diving I think they should start handing out Pink Cards. 3 cards and your tossed and during the next game you have to wear a pink patch stiched into your shorts.

Also maybe time to bring instant replay into the game. Especially for the Red Card. C Ronaldo's foul was flagrant and deserved a Red Card - Deco's did not.

QF: England on penalties.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 26.06.06 at 12:07]

SmokingGun,

Sorry, I do not think instant replays are necessary. Right now I think too many fouls are being called and instant replays would do nothing but disrupt the game.

What has concerned me about FIFA is that they seem to want to rid the game of the sliding tackle (Deco should not have been given a card because it was a legitimate tackle)or any hard tackle and this has only come about to protect the so-called star players. Much of what FIFA has done recently is good but somethings take away from the flow of the game.

This is not basketball, after all.

[young1 on 26.06.06 at 12:20]

I have heard a rumour circulating similar to the pink patch idea except players would be required to wear pink armbands. I somehow don’t think modern footballers will be too bothered by wearing pink (most of them already wax) and divers get a reputation anyway.

Whilst the time wasting yellow for Deco was harsh I strongly believe (like the Dutch guy on Ronaldo) he was lucky not to get a straight red it was petulant foul no intention on playing the ball and dangerous. The Dutch not giving the ball back is no excuse for dangerous play.

Figo can thank his lucky stars as well as many people have gone for a lot less and it was intentional.

England should be good enough to win before penalties however Scolari seems to be even more of a bogey man than Sweden for Sven’s men.

I've always thought Maniche looks good in the centre and Portugal’s right flank as well, particularly the right back. England’s left vs. Portugal’s right could be a very interesting battle as both flanks are very attacking.

[Young1 on 26.06.06 at 12:25]

Guilden

There is a big difference between a good strong sliding tackle and sprinting up behind someone and deliberately taking them out. There is no way Deco's challenge deserved anything less than a yellow and he was lucky not to get a strait

[youngone on 26.06.06 at 12:30]

..red

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 26.06.06 at 12:43]

Young1,

I agree with you about deliberately taking someone out, however, if the intent of the player is to attack the ball then some slide tackles need to be accepted. There will be ocassions where the timing may be off and the player may take down the ball carrier but the extent of the foul should be based on intent rather than outcome.

[SmokingGun on 26.06.06 at 12:44]

Guilden - I do not disagree but I find there is so much disruption as it is. If it were limited to flagrant fouls it might help.

Young 1 - armbands and frilly underwear. I always thought diving should involve a swimming pool.

England was damn lucky they did not meet up with Portugal yesterday.

[Young1 on 26.06.06 at 13:10]

Guliden - I agree with you that it should be the intention of the tackler that are punished and that is precisely why in my opinion Deco deserved at the very least a yellow card.

The whole situation suggests Deco had nothing else on his mind other than stopping the Dutch man from playing on. He was upset that the Dutch had not given the ball back. The play had already gone passed him by the time he started his run towards the Dutch player and when he started to slide it was obvious, even in real time, that he had no chance of getting the ball.

On diving, as much as I don’t want to say it referees are only human and make mistakes, the only way to deal with it is punish the diver (if the ref doesn’t pick up on it) in hindsight through suspensions. These suspensions should get longer the more a player dives. Hopefully a few years of some such policy being strictly enforced will help eradicate it from the game. As long as players can get away with it they will always dive.

[Njegos on 27.06.06 at 08:52]

Meanwhile an Italian journalist in Spain has reported that Spaniards are behaving as though they have won the world cup. This is quite typical and usually presages imminent departure from the tournament.

[Bandit on 27.06.06 at 09:04]

Njegos - so you are going to back Argentina? Now if my memory serves me, is that not the country who walked into and took control of a small British colony (not unlike Bermuda) in 1982, causing the UK to go to it's biggest war since WW2?

I know they say forgive and forget but you won't find me backing them!

[Trebliso on 27.06.06 at 09:21]

Bermuda isn't full of Bennies, or Stills as we are supposed to call them now.

[Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. on 27.06.06 at 10:26]

Bandit,

So I guess you feel the same about the Germans for WWII and the Americans for the War of 1812 and the War of Independence, how about the French for the American Revolutionary War?

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 27.06.06 at 11:03]

"...how about the French for the American Revolutionary War?"

Well, yeah! Of course! Doesn't everyone hate the French?

Of course, my own distaste comes from the Norman Invasion, but I have some Irish in me. We can hold grudges like nobody's business. *grin*

[Bandit on 27.06.06 at 11:15]

Ok Guilden, you have got me on the war of 1812, I don't know that one.

The Falklands is slightly different, Argentina still want them, therefore they are still the enemy.

[hotspur on 27.06.06 at 13:05]

No one can say anything here about England’s performances that has already been said (and repeated ad nauseam) by our miserable, negative, love-to-bring-us-all-down English media. But, quite frankly, I’d rather have a team sitting in the Qtrs having performed at 70% capability.

England will either continue to play as they have where they will likely beat Portugal but then lose in the Semis or two or three key players will begin to perform somewhere near their capabilities in which case thing’s could get very interesting.

Me, I like to believe we’re capable of the latter.

Regardless, it’s going to be a great atmosphere and win or lose I will share a beer with the Portuguese supporters after what I hope will be a great game.

Would anyone like to borrow my rose-tinted glasses?

PS. Brazil have just gone 2-0 up after another shocking decision by an official. Until we bring some kind of video re-play process in how are we ever going be able to believe that Fifa isn’t influencing these games?

[sandgrownan on 27.06.06 at 13:45]

I despair at what the beautiful game has become, poor refereering, blatent cheating by players and unruly behaviour by fans. In my day blah blah......

[SmokingGun on 27.06.06 at 14:18]

"Would anyone like to borrow my rose-tinted glasses?"

Hotspur - I think Ghana's players could have used them. Those guys couldn't score if you made the goal 100 ft wide. Where were they aiming?

[automatic on 27.06.06 at 14:43]

Bandit,

You'd do well writing for an English tabloid...they love dragging up old wars to try and stir up hatred between football fans. It's a juvenile and frankly embarrassing viewpoint. As an Englishman, it makes me cringe every time someone brings this up, or WWII in respect of the Germans for that matter.

The Argentinian military government in 1982 invaded the Falklands to try and divert attention away from serious problems at home, sending hundreds of their citizens (many barely older than schoolkids) to their deaths. The UK government had previously shown no attention whatsoever to the Falklands and probably didn't even know where they were. Margaret Thatcher responded with force more to gain political advantage from the situation herself than to protect the islanders. It was a totally unnecessary war on both sides.

The Argentinians have a genuine belief that they have a right to the islands, but that does not make them "the enemy". Since the military government were deposed, they have made no attempt to gain control of the islands, and have only discussed the matter via diplomatic means. Argentina has much bigger issues to deal with than this.

If you're looking for a reason not to support their football team, there is no need to blame the war...whay not focus on Mexico 1986 and that little cheating druggie Maradona's "Hand of God"!! Or the fact that England lost to Argentina on penalties in 1998. Or Rattin's petulant display at Wembley in 1966. England have plenty of reasons to dislike the Argies on the football field, the Falklands isn't one of them.

Similarly, most football fans in England would love to beat Germany more because they keep knocking us out on penalties in major competitions than because of anything to do with WWII (despite what a small minority of hooligans and the tabloids would have you believe)

Trebliso,

Love the reference to "Bennies" and "Stills"!

[Njegos on 27.06.06 at 15:13]

Bandit:

"Njegos - so you are going to back Argentina? Now if my memory serves me, is that not the country who walked into and took control of a small British colony (not unlike Bermuda) in 1982, causing the UK to go to it's biggest war since WW2?

Thanks for reminding us of that "great" British victory.

The Falklands is slightly different, Argentina still want them, therefore they are still the enemy.

You are joking, I hope.

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 27.06.06 at 15:16]

Good post, automatic.

We can still hate the French, though, right?

[hotspur on 27.06.06 at 15:32]

All the hacks who were screaming “Ronaldo is fat bastard shocker!!!!!” just a few days ago should be fired and sent to the Falklands.

[automatic on 27.06.06 at 15:38]

Elvis,

"We can still hate the French, though, right?"

Of course! Some things you don't need a reason for, they just come naturally ;-)

[loki on 27.06.06 at 15:41]

"Thanks for reminding us of that "great" British victory"

As someone whose father fought in the Falklands War, I'd personally appreciate it if we could drop the topic, please.

[silencedogood on 27.06.06 at 15:54]

Elvis,

"We can still hate the French, though, right?"

Of course! Some things you don't need a reason for, they just come naturally ;-)

Posted by automatic on 27.06.06 at 15:38

Brilliant. Agreed.

[Pistolet de tabagisme on 27.06.06 at 16:32]

Sacre Bleu! - Les Anglais sont un groupe de Wimpys. Nous donnons un coup de pied vos fonds en gastronomie.

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 27.06.06 at 16:49]

La plume de ma tante est sur la table.

[SmokingGun on 27.06.06 at 17:27]

Must be a flying Ant. ;-)

[ace on 27.06.06 at 17:44]

Great ad for a WW2 era French rifle on E-Bay:

"Never fired, dropped once".

;)

[loki on 27.06.06 at 17:47]

Q: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?

A: It's never been tested.

[Njegos on 27.06.06 at 18:31]

France deserved their victory. And from what I saw of Spain today, a France-Brazil match will be far more entertaining.

Loki:

Please feel free not to participate in any discussion of the Falklands.

And it was not I who raised the subject.

[loki on 27.06.06 at 19:13]

Njegos,

The fact is that the thread has nothing at all to do with the Falklands War, and I certainly wasn't suggesting that you did raise the topic. However, the tone of your post and the apparent sarcasm suggested that we were about to get into a needless debate on a topic with which the thread is not concerned. It suffices to say that the memories of the war are still very fresh in the minds of both the British and the Argentines and the outcome of the war was tragic, particularly for the young, Argentine conscripts who had no choice but to fight in a war that they had no hope of winning. There is a great deal of mutual respect between British and Argentine veterans of the war and I simply don't think that a thread concerning the World Cup is the appropriate place to get into a protracted discussion on the war. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Njegos on 27.06.06 at 19:56]

Loki:

You are throwing around too many yellow cards. I agree that this thread is not about the Falklands but let the moderator decide what is "needless debate".

Of course the war was tragic but some people on this thread appear to think they are still fighting it. I find that quite sad. Back in 82, I opposed the war to re-take the Falklands. I believe firmly that had my view prevailed, a thousand or so lives would have been spared.

Let's get back to football.

[YankeeKayaker on 27.06.06 at 23:31]

Wow...you guys really take that soccer stuff seriously!
I know a few don't want to carry the Falklands topic on any farther, but since it was brought up I just can't resist the one memory I have regarding that. Even though we were officially neutral, I can still take any of you to a railroad trestle right downtown where I still live and point out the now-faded proclamation spray-painted on the side; "F*** Argentina, God Save the Queen!" Done by one 16 year old - and very drunk - yankeekayaker. :) Ahh..to be a drunk teen hanging 20 feet above the highway off the side of a trestle with a can of spraypaint again...

[thisgrassman on 27.06.06 at 23:44]

Wow...you guys really take that soccer stuff seriously!........YankeeKayaker

its called football .........always has been.