Bermuda Hospitals Board: First public meeting

Notes from Thursday evening's public meeting, organised by the Bermuda Hospitals Board (BHB), about the location of the new hospital.

The room was packed. Every available seat was taken, and people were standing in the aisles too. I estimated that about 250 people were present. Most (perhaps 80%) were white. Are Bermuda’s blacks less concerned about building on the Botanical Gardens? I had thought that this was one issue that would unite the races.

The panel included: Anthony Richardson, Board Chairman of the BHB; Vernetta Symonds, deputy CEO of the BHB; George Melling, facilities director for the BHB; Dr. Daniel Stovell, director of diagnostic imaging for the BHB; Joe Rekab, costing consultant for BTY Group; Raymond Moldenhauer, architect for Cannon Designs; Ronald McIntyre, architect for Cannon Designs; and Colin Campbell, architect for OBM Group. The consortium selected to build the new hospital comprises BTY Group (costing consultants), Cannon Designs (healthcare architects), OBM Ltd (local architects) and PriceWaterhouseCoopers (consultants). PWC were the only company who did not have a representative on the panel.

UBP MPs present in the audience included Wayne Furbert, Michael Dunkley, John Barritt, Patricia Gordon-Pamplin and Louise Jackson. I didn’t see any PLP MPs.

The atmosphere was rambunctious, with the crowd frequently laughing at, heckling or jeering the speakers, and applauding members of the audience who spoke eloquently in the Gardens’ defence. It was clear that the audience contained few supporters of the plan to build in the Gardens, a point driven home when Louise Jackson asked how many people present opposed the current plan and almost everyone in the room raised their hands and cheered.

I got the impression that the BHB was trying to deflect blame away from themselves, by implying that the Government had tied their hands. Anthony Richardson said that the Arboretum had been the BHB’s preferred site, but that the Government had told them that this was not an option. He also said that the Government’s stipulation that the project should cost no more than $500 million had forced them to choose the Botanical Gardens over the existing hospital site.

Vernetta Symonds said that a new hospital was required because the maintenance costs of the current building comprise a disproportionate amount of the BHB’s budget, the quality of care is impacted by the working environment, the equipment is outdated and it’s difficult to find people willing to work with that kind of technology in that kind of environment. Critical failures are becoming more likely, she said, and the BHB is currently struggling to maintain the current site so that it does not impact patient care or staff safety. She pointed out that the ceilings in the current building, which are 13 feet high, are much lower than those in modern hospitals, typically 20 to 22 feet. This creates difficulties when trying to accommodate modern equipment. Dr. Daniel Stovell said that these problems were the reason that it took four months to install the new X-ray imaging room, when it should have taken just one. “We fight with this every day,” he said.

George Melling described how the $500 million cost of building on the Botanical Gardens broke down. 30% represented the cost to build such a facility in Canada; 21% comprised the additional cost of doing business in Bermuda; 9% was project costs (management, fees, etc); 19% was for furnishings and equipment; 14% was for escalation; and the remaining 7% was for site development (preparing the site, installing fencing, building a new incinerator, etc). Joe Rekab said that $15 million (not including staff costs) had been allocated to demolish the existing hospital and return it to parkland. He said that $5 million had been allocated to move the Ministry of the Environment buildings currently within the footprint of the new site.

From the audience, Bruce Barritt asked why the BHB had decided that 10 acres of land was required for the new building. Why not build up? George Melling replied that there were operational efficiencies to be gained by keeping certain functions on the same floor. Raymond Moldenhauer stressed that these are important since the ongoing running costs of the hospital will be much greater than the construction costs.

Louise Jackson asked why we couldn’t redevelop the existing site when many other hospitals, such as the children’s hospital in Philadelphia, have successfully pursued this option. Ronald McIntyre pointed out that the hospital in Philadelphia had contingency plans to evacuate patients to nearby hospitals in the event of a problem during construction that threatened patient care. He pointed out that, in contrast, KEMH is the only hospital in Bermuda, and in an emergency there would be nowhere else for the patients to go. George Melling noted that no plans were available for some of the old buildings on the existing site, increasing the risk that a pipe or cable would be accidentally severed during work.

That didn’t impress one lady. “You’re saying, ‘Yes we can do it on the same site but…’. Take away the ‘but’ and just do it!” she said.

Patricia Gordon-Pamplin suggested that the $500 million price cap was a red herring, and was putting the cart before the horse. She criticised Government ministers for saying that the project was a fait accompli, and making comparisons with the cost overruns on the Berkeley project. I thought that such overt politicisation of the discussion was unnecessary, but most of the rest of the audience seemed to like it.

One man pointed out that Bacardi had recently given the hospital $600,000 for one room and told the BHB to think more creatively about financing options. Anthony Richardson said that research had been done to estimate how much money could be raised from the community, including international business, and the total figure was only $25 million. Bob Steinhoff said that he had been approached by the hospital for money some time ago, and that he and some friends had set some aside. However he asked how the BHB expected to raise any substantial amount of money from the community while their plan was to build in the Botanical Gardens.

Peter Nash noted that the public was being asked to sacrifice 10 acres of parkland now in exchange for the promise of 14 acres in the years to come. He said he didn’t believe that promise would be honoured. He pointed out that when the Government administration offices were moved to the site of the old police station 30 years ago, the police station was moved into a condemned building with the promise that a new one would be built. We’re still waiting for that today, he said.

Steve Conway said that although the old hospital land would currently remain under the ownership of the BHB and be classified as ‘institutional’, the Premier had written to the National Trust suggesting that legislative changes might be possible to guarantee that the old site would be turned into parkland.

All through the meeting, the members of the panel seemed to suggest the only options were to build in the Botanical Gardens or redevelop the existing site. Several people seemed to feel this was a false dichotomy, however, and asked for information to be provided on the other locations that the BHB considered too.

Although there was insufficient time for every member of the audience to have their say, everyone was given a card on which they were encouraged to write any questions they had. The BHB promised to post responses to all questions on their website. Anthony Richardson said that given the high turnout at tonight’s meeting, the location of the meetings on Friday and Saturday might be reconsidered too. Keep an ear open for any changes if you’re planning to attend either of them.

» UPDATE - According to this morning's radio news, Friday evening's meeting has also been moved to the Bermuda College. Saturday morning's meeting is still scheduled to be at KEMH.

» UPDATE - The BHB has confirmed that Saturday's meeting will be held at the Bermuda College too.

Comments

[jake on 22.09.06 at 07:11]

Thanks for the report from the front, Phil.

I am mostly influenced by the price tag of $500m which will be paid for by the generations to come. Think of the community services that will never be funded as a result of this massive expenditure. That is not to say that healthcare is not deserving of this level of expense, just that since we are at this level, we should make sure that we choose the most cost effective option - even at the expense of shifting one area of parkland to another area.

This is important because I think the impact of cost is undersestimated. If the 10 acres are ACTUALLY the most cost effective option, I am for building on them, and then shifting the 14 acres into parkland.

The (former) UBP Government faced the same opposition when they proposed removing the bus station from East Broadway and moving it to Palmetto Road. A successful conversion was done, and the entrance to the city benefits as a result.

There is no reason a similar conversion could not be made here.

KEEP THE COST DOWN PLEASE!!!!

This team needs to establish its own credibility with respect to this project. The Berkeley Project hangs over their heads - justifiably - and needs to be addressed (I suggest the resignation of Alex Scott) and then we should engage the most competent builders and service providers and make this happen. I have every faith in the BHB Team who are facing the largest challenge of their professional lives in the form of community service.

I applaud and salute them.

[Tiger Bay on 22.09.06 at 08:04]

A park with a very busy, 24 hour, several acre medical complex in the middle of it is no longer a park. It is a front lawn.

[Gerry C on 22.09.06 at 08:30]

I'd agree with Jake that costs are a vital issue and should never be underestimated. But the way they are being used as an arguement for the destruction of the BG is both a red herring and a smokescreen.

First of all, healthcare is not a hospital. Buildings are infrastructure, nothing more. The proposal as it stands is much like that of 2nd World War planners, who thought they'd be fighting the First all over again. It may be possible to overcome all the problems that the proposed development could, but then you've got to ask yourself the question: Is this actually the kind of facility that Bermuda needs ?

For me, this is the key debate about the future of health services on the island, and it's not being had. The development plans as they stand are not only being presented as the only option, but the only way of setting about the business of housing a health service. Which is just nonsense.

Furthermore, the Gardens are a public commons, green lung and hugely important environmental space on the island. In traditional economics, these are all 'intangibles' and therefore discounted. But what price do you put on them ? In the new environmental 'total-economics', these three issues alone would give pause for thought, both in terms of what their loss would mean to the island, and their long term benefits to the population as a whole.

The way things stand, both Bermuda's environment and its people are being served a model of development that is simply being taken for granted as the only way to create a 'hospital' for Bermuda. You have to ask yourself: is this kind of hi-visibility, high prestige development actually what's needed, or could there be other ways of providing the same health infrastructure ?

Its not only the cost-benefits issues that might be messed up here, but also the means and ends.

[Sandgrownan on 22.09.06 at 08:36]

Gerry C is right. A more fundamental debate is the future of healthcare in general in Bermuda and whether or not a "hi-visibility, high prestige development" is needed a part of a longer term plan.
I object strongly to the notion that building on the BG's is the only option.

[V on 22.09.06 at 09:28]

"Are Bermuda’s blacks less concerned about building on the Botanical Gardens?"

Read Stuart Hayward's columns on the subject. And Heather Wood's. Even DJ LT weighs in on the Botanical Gardens in today's MON as does Dr. Eva Hodgson (who calls the plan "criminal"). You come from a culture where people are expected to take to the streets to protest bone-headed Govt. actions, Phil. In Bermuda the vast majority of the people are less openly demonstrative, content to let their voices be head every four or five years - on election day.

[Sandgrownan on 22.09.06 at 09:36]

V - which is why Bermudians (of colours)get exactly the political decisions they deserve. The political apathy is what allows crap like this to happen.

[V on 22.09.06 at 09:40]

"... which is why Bermudians (of colours)get exactly the political decisions they deserve. The political apathy is what allows crap like this to happen ..."

I don't disagree with you at all, sir. I was explaining the situation -- not justifying it! BTW, I assume "Gerry C." is the Gerry Connelly who wrote the terrific overview of Bermuda's health care (and environmental) needs in today's MON. Should be mandatory reading for everyone associated with the Botanical Gardens decision -- altho' I'm not sure many of them would absorb the full import of what he has to say.

[Sandgrownan on 22.09.06 at 09:56]

V -correct on all counts.

[Tiger Bay on 22.09.06 at 10:00]

The hospital is being built for this generation. The park is there for future generations. We have no right to degrade it.

[Rossini on 22.09.06 at 11:40]

Well, Limey, welcome to Bermuda. Whilst as a black man I do not support the hospital plan for the Botanical Gardens, what you saw at the meeting last night is the hostory of Bermuda coming home to roost. For so long the Botanical Gardens, the Ag Show and allthose things were the preserve of whites in this country...that's why they are anxious to save it. It DOES mean more to them than to us; that's a simple fact. THEY are the ones who have a year round experience there, most blacks' experience is limited to the AgShow and that's it. Everything at that site reeks of old, white Bermuda and that's a fact. None of that changes the ill-conceived nature of the plan though; but your opening observation speaks volumes about why it is that the hostory of this country is so important and why it is that white are so mystified that they cannot attract blacks to THEIR causes. Its the history that is now biting them.

[abc on 22.09.06 at 11:45]

I have to agree with Rossini. I am not in favor or nor opposed to the plan because I don't have all the facts. Did I attend the meeting? Nope. Did many blacks attend? Nope. Because in simple terms most black in bermuda have more issues to concern themselves with. They feel that the government will make the decision and that they are qualified to do so. The segment of the population that has excess time on their hands to post on here constantly and to attend every meeting on every issue is not the black population. Its not that we aren't interested. Rossini has it right that most of our contact with botanical gardens has been the Exhibition and an occasional birthday party or wedding party pictures. It doesn't mean we are for or against the plan. Most of us are for a new hospital...that is our primary focus.

[Sandgrownan on 22.09.06 at 11:46]

That maybe true Rossini, but it strikes me that preserving open spaces is EVERYONE'S cause, as is looking at healthcare in gneral.

[Sandgrownan on 22.09.06 at 11:48]

ABC - but is a landmark, prestigous new hospital required? We know KEMH has to be replaced - but with what? there's a broader question. The BG are just part of that discussion.

[Pompous G Windbag III jnr. on 22.09.06 at 11:51]

Rossi dear boy - it is a very lazy argument to suggest that there is some historical and class imperative that belies a race based apathy.

You can do better than that.

[thisgrassman on 22.09.06 at 11:53]

Limey,

You should start a sweepstakes on how long this will take to become an issue of race. I am betting by the weekend the tribal politics of the island will have the camps entrenched in their polarised positions.

Posted by thisgrassman on 21.09.06 at 13:59 (under different thread)

...........seems like we are right on schedule

[Tiger Bay on 22.09.06 at 11:54]

Rossini my friend, I visit the BG frequently and promise you that it is very well used by both black and white families. Protecting the parklands is not about the past, it's about now and the future.

[loki on 22.09.06 at 12:05]

Well, I have to agree with Rossini on this one. I mean, surely we've all witnessed the lynchings and cross burnings that take place at the Botanical Gardens, not to mention the proliferation of 'whites only' signs above the drinking fountains. And don't even get me started on the White Power marches......

[Rossini on 22.09.06 at 12:08]

Always so entertaining to get a race lecture. Folks, I just don't know how to break it to you. Race dominates EVERYTHING in this country. If the hospital was planned for say, Devonshire Rec, I bet you the complexion of that meeting last night would have been vastly different. How many white people were at the public meetings about Perimeter Lane or Anchorage in St. George's ? Come on guys...let's be real. You can't spend 400 years subtly or overtly telling people that certain places, events and things are not for them and then cause a little bit of pressure is placed on you expect to rally those you excluded to your cause. It don't work like that.....the picture in the Bermuda Sun of the attendees at the meeting speaks volumes...

[Gerry C on 22.09.06 at 12:12]

well it was flagged right from the start rather...... and personally I'm not quite sure why so, or what was supposed to be achieved by doing so. That part of Limey’s opening kind of stuck out, poked me in the eye, and slapped me round the face a few times for good measure… As my granny would say, 'I find that wee bit unecessarily provocative young man'......

I'd like to say that race like nature, is 'Mistah Allnut, something we're all put on this planet to rise above', (Hepburn to Bogart in the African Queen), but I'd like to say a lot of things. It don't change nothing.

It would be cool however to get through one thread without people hanging their mis- and pre-conceptions about race on it. Especially this one.

[Blue Eyed Devil on 22.09.06 at 12:18]

The point is well made, that environmentalism is often an elite white issue. A good modern hospital is definitely needed in Bermuda, and from the looks of KEMH it's due for replacement. Maybe the locals don't realize how little public green spcace Bermuda has. In a crowded urban environment, a place to enjoy the outdoors and relax is especially needed. Where I come from parks are used mostly by poor people to get out of their crowded housing.

Lower class black Bermudians- this is *your* island, at least as much as anyone else's. Any damage done will be forever. The white locals can retreat to their estates, the white expats can go home, but if you want a nice park to take your girlfriend or your kids to this is one of the few places you have to go. Asking your PLP leaders to think of another plan is not disrespectful and not playing into the hands of affluent blacks or whites, it's good for the community.

Not much has been said about the proposed site in Hamilton- I don't know if that has any real possibility of being considered or not. That would protect both the Botanical Gardens and the Arboretum.

I'm not willing to impute any bad faith to the leadership, I think they do what they think is necessary and in the best interests of Bermuda. However I think they should be more open to public debate and getting outside input.

[Sandgrownan on 22.09.06 at 12:41]

Not supporting a campaign to look at alternative plans for a replacment hospital and saving precious open space "because white elitists are usually environmentalists" is fucking retarded.

[Phil on 22.09.06 at 12:43]

The BHB has announced that the meetings this evening and on Saturday morning will also be held at the Bermuda College North Hall.

[Rossini on 22.09.06 at 12:57]

"Its the economy, stupid!". Sandgrownan, avoid the temptation to be profane and insulting and examine the issue.This whole thing doesn't resonate with the black community for a reason....just accept that and stop calling people retarded. Your issues are not our issues because this union you all are trying to foster is brand new. Bermuda is a long way off from having "our" issues. That's just a fact. The danger, and I accept this, is that while we work out the kinks, some things are going to be done that are irreversible. Stop glossing over the reality and understand that we are not going to march if the alternative site is the Yacht Club, but you will get our attention if you choose Sea Breeze Oval....that's just the way it is right now. Hoepfully, it will change.

[thereyougo on 22.09.06 at 12:59]

Out of curiosity, how many acres will the park on the former dump be between Palmetto Rd and Parsons Rd? When will that be ready to use?

As for race, of course it is an issue. How could it not be?

[Tiger Bay on 22.09.06 at 13:00]

Last I heard, Sea Breeze/Coney Island is one of the possible replacement locations for the Causeway.

[Pompous G Windbag III jnr. on 22.09.06 at 13:09]

I'd chain myself to a bulldozer to protect Sea Breeze. It's a gem of a ground that has sadly been allowed to fall into neglect.

I'd do that despite the anti-social low life that hang out there...

[Rossini on 22.09.06 at 13:19]

Pompous you may well have to give directions to it for many of those posting so passionately about Botanical Gardens.Get my point ????

[newbie on 22.09.06 at 13:19]

As a frequent visitor to the Botanical Gardens I can honestly say that in my opinion the loss of the gardens would be tragic. The gardens are an oasis of calm in an increasingly overcrowded Island. I also feel that this could be the 'thin end of the wedge' once we let this happen we are on a very slippery slope to setting a precedent. Where will it end?

On my frequent visits to the BG I see people from all walks of life - children's birthday parties, family getogethers, the young, the elderly, black, white - all enjoying the gardens for the space, beauty and just the simple pleasure of walking there. The Botanical Gardens belong to the people of Bermuda, everyone in Bermuda and should be preserved for generations to come.

[Phil on 22.09.06 at 14:01]

Rossini

Everything at that site reeks of old, white Bermuda and that's a fact.

Grass and trees are green, not white.

But seriously, what injustices were perpetrated at the Botanical Gardens that might make some members of the black community ambivalent about saving it? I have heard something about blacks being forced to sit in a separate area at the Ag Show and being forbidden from participating. Is that what you are referring to? Or were there other things too? Were blacks ever prevented from going for a stroll in the Gardens? I'm not being funny - I genuinely don't know.

V

In Bermuda the vast majority of the people are less openly demonstrative

Agreed, but white Bermudians are clearly more demonstrative than black ones. Would you agree that this is a result of the legacy of segregation, which has perhaps conditioned some blacks to fear what will happen if they speak out? Or do you think it's more to do with tribal political loyalties and not wanting to openly criticise "their" government? Or is it, as abc suggests, a class thing, whereby the poor are too busy surviving to have time to protest environmental issues?

[weaselguard on 22.09.06 at 14:11]

The largest "class" in Bermuda is the black middle class.

[JJ on 22.09.06 at 14:19]

Bit off topic init Limey?

[Pompous G Windbag III jnr. on 22.09.06 at 14:21]

Ross old love - the point is that I hope I'm able to put aside my latent prejudice to see that desercration of a Bermudian asset is more important than my own blinkered agenda.

I bet you weren't assaulted because of the way you look the last time you strolled around the BG...

[V on 22.09.06 at 14:24]

LOL! Christ, Phil! You've been listening to the likes of Rossini for too long! Listen, it has far less to do with social conditioning or tribalism than it does with the same kind of bad, old fashioned political apathy that exists everywhere else. Let me clarify my earlier comment: you come from a culture where it's the norm for people ACTIVE in certain fields -- the anti-war movement, environmentalism, etc. -- to take to the streets to protest Govt. bone-headedness. The vast majority of the public, of course, never, ever takes part in marches or rallies. At best they'll watch them on the TV news and draw their own conclusions which may or may not influence how they vote at the next election. Precisely the same applies here. The people who turn up at demos./public meetings tend to be either young and passionate (good on 'em) or -- as was the case last night -- card-carrying members of activist groups like the National Trust, the Audobon Society, etc. "White Bermudians are clearly more demonstrative than black ones?" In your limited experience, perhaps. You've clearly never been here for a full-scale BIU demonstration ... or, say, the church rally against the Stubbs Amendment which drew thousands of people to the House of Assembly (far, far more, I hate to say, than attended the recent rally protesting the sad fate of Renee Webb's bill).

[Rossini on 22.09.06 at 14:24]

Good of you to ask Limey.At the risk of incurring the wrath of your regulars with some truth...here goes. For a start,see if you can get a hold of an AgShow programme and go right to the back. The named prizes in the back read like a Who's Who of who "Was". Those families held a strangehold on the exhibition. Latterly, portuguese-Bermudians were welcomed into the fold in light of their agricultural prowess.Blacks were specifically prevented from participating in the exhibition. This bigotry has made it into black folklore in this country....the story goes that a black lady sought to enter her goods into the exhibition and was denied. She cursed it and said may it rain every year.....for what its worth, without fail, on one of the days of the exhibition it always seems to rain. Its only in recent years that there are even black guides, attendants, and judges for the Exhibition.In fact, there are still black garden & flower clubs and white ones.Arthur Hodgson and Terry Lister can regale you with tales of what they encountered in the early days of this government to make the event more inclusive......get the picture ?

[Michael Taylor on 22.09.06 at 14:30]

Rossini,

Good points and a reasonable answer to the Limey's question. Just the situation as you see it and certainly no cause for a lecture!

[Darkside on 22.09.06 at 14:31]

Rossini ... I too have heard of/believe in the rain curse on the Ag Show ... funny that it did happen every year. At least the former bigotry has now been rectified within the Annual Ex ... however that said some people are just going to keep winning because they are good at what they do ... plain fact ... no racial issue there.

[observor on 22.09.06 at 14:31]

Arthur Hodgson and Terry Lister can regale you with tales of what they encountered in the early days of this government to make the event more inclusive .... stories like ... ?

[Pompous G Windbag III jnr. on 22.09.06 at 14:36]

Arthur Hodgson and Terry Lister can regale you with tales of what they encountered in the early days of this government to make the event more inclusive .... stories like ... ?

Posted by observor on 22.09.06 at 14:3

"Of course I remember when this was all fields around here..."

[Sandgrownan on 22.09.06 at 15:18]

Rossini - I don't disagree, you miss my point. RBYC would be useless location for a hospital as would See Breeze (unless we had a water ambulence for those in the West End). Any replacement for KEMH needs to be central but:
a) It doesn't need to be a mega-structure
b) It doesn't need to destroy one of the last substantial areas of open space in Bermuda.

Regardless of its history, with the AG show etc, using that history as a basis for not protecting a space that is used by ALL secotrs of the community because its a white cause IS retarded. I'm stunned that this, of all issues, has become a black/white issue. Maybe i shouldn't be...

[Liam Brady on 22.09.06 at 15:22]

I saw the Hamilton proposal in the paper. It's not a very good one. One of the main points out of all this has been access to both ends of the island.

It already takes as long as 30 mins for an ambulance to reach the extremities. Can you imagine an ambulance trying to leave town in the middle of the workday or during rush hour traffic? Then having to get back in. It just isn't a smart logistical move to put it anywhere in Pemroke (including the old dump).

Also a downfall of the idea is that we are using Bermuda city blocks, not US city blocks. I think the architechs, while doing a good thing, did not consider all the ancilliary services required by a hospital. It's not as simple as an ER, Surgical, Ward, and Morgue. To host all of the required services on that site, it would have to be an extremely tall hospital. Let's not even talk about parking and traffic flow.

While it will be a loss building on BG, I must say that this is the most logistically sound decision. Getting involved in the consultation process allows us to say "why do we need that?" For all we know by the time we ask them these questions the size may be reduced.

But speaking on the access thing. Maybe they should consider ambulance patrols or satelite stations for ambulances. That way instead of going down and coming back up, they're already nearby. What does anyone else think?

[Sandgrownan on 22.09.06 at 15:27]

Liam Brady "Maybe they should consider ambulance patrols or satelite stations for ambulances. That way instead of going down and coming back up, they're already nearby. What does anyone else think?"

Hear Hear. Go one stage further and build smaller facilities at each end of the island, out patients , minor surgical stuff, and leave only the really critical stuff at KEMH.

[Turtle on 22.09.06 at 16:29]

Does anyone know why the Government ruled out the Arboretum?

[thisgrassman on 22.09.06 at 16:45]

Does anyone know why the Government ruled out the Arboretum?

Posted by Turtle on 22.09.06 at 16:29

This government didn't have the stomach to take on the formidable Mrs. Wade who led the residents revolt to prevent low cost housing on Alexandra Road.

She chewed up and spat out Ashfield Devent when he was Housing Minister

[I.B.JMC on 22.09.06 at 17:12]

The Arboretum is not an option I'm afraid.
Nor is Gov house.
Or any other open/green space.

I'd wager that most of the people that showed up last night would have showed up if it was the Arboretum on the chopping block.

[Tiger Bay on 22.09.06 at 17:18]

Yes they would: parkland is parkland.

[Alex on 22.09.06 at 18:29]

What's that vast green area in Devonshire called? I think it's Devonshire. Just down from St. John's Church.

Why not that?

Not as though it's being used for anything else at the moment.

..or was that the old dump :-/

[Alex on 22.09.06 at 18:33]

"George Melling replied that there were operational efficiencies to be gained by keeping certain functions on the same floor."

10 acres = 435600' sq.

If that's the case, I hope they're having in-house transportation (or horizontal elevators - like in Charlie & The Chocolate Factory) to get folk from the Op room to the ICU.

What a pathetic justification.

[SmokingGun on 22.09.06 at 18:49]

"At least the former bigotry has now been rectified within the Annual Ex ... however that said some people are just going to keep winning because they are good at what they do ... plain fact ... no racial issue there." - Darkside

I think it's more a case of Green Privilege.

Rossini - I do not doubt the history of the Ag Show/Exhibition was not fair nor kind to people who were not white however I find it incredulous that in the year 2006 you, and others, will chain your children's future to everything that is negative about our ancestors past. Why not take all the resources of today and put it to creating the kind of environment we would hope our future generations will be proud of?

In general I'm not sure why it is important to tabulate the mix of the crowd that show up for such a cause but it is interesting just the same. Maybe there are a lot of black Bermudians who see this issue as a challenge to the Government/PLP more than anything else and just don't want to be present at such a meeting in case Burch might call them something. Which is one of the outcomes of the divisive nature we have today. Which is the absolute worst possible thing that could happen when it comes to trying to do the right thing with regard to such projects as the hospital and it's location and protecting our little island's environmental heritage.

[Gerry C on 22.09.06 at 19:15]

SG > Can't agree more... I too had a bit of problem with the numbers/ratio game when it started, but now that it has, it's got me thinking......

my next point follows from the last few posts by Limey, Denis Pitcher, V and Rossini on the ex-pat rumble, which seems to have cross-fertillised with this one, but it maybe answers some of SG's points as well.

what about this from Prof. James H Cone, leading writer on Black Liberation and theology:

"What is absent from much of the talk about the environment in First World countries is a truly radical critique of the culture most responsible for the ecological crisis".

and this:

"Do we have any reason to believe that the culture most responsible for the ecological crisis will also provide the moral and intellectual resources for the earth's liberation? White ethicists and theologians apparently think so, since so much of their discourse about theology and the earth is just talk among themselves. But I have a deep suspicion about the theological and ethical values of white culture and religion. For five hundred years whites have acted as if they owned the world's resources and have forced people of color to accept their scientific and ethical values. People of color have studied dominant theologies and ethics because our physical and spiritual survival partly depended on it. Now that humanity has reached the possibility of extinction, one would think that a critical assessment of how we got to where we are would be the next step for sensitive and caring theologians of the earth. While there is some radical questioning along these lines, it has not been persistent or challenging enough to compel whites to look outside of their dominating culture for ethical and cultural resources for the earth's salvation."

if you want to read the whole article:

WHOSE EARTH IS IT ANYWAY

If we want to get anywhere with what SG's talking about maybe the man above's got a point...

after all, in the general scheme of things, Mr Burch, and even the PLP are pretty small beer - there maybe something much larger and more interesting going on here.

[Bill Cook on 22.09.06 at 21:05]

It is a mistake in my opinion to refer to the mind set of black people as to what they support or do not support with a one sock fits all identity.

It should be pointed out that app one third of the voter base of the UBP is in fact black.

Also it would appear that with regarding independence the vast majority of blacks oppose independence.

Both areas that one would acknowledge are seen as white I would assume.

I think that it may be a mistake to judge the degree of interest in the hospital with regard to attending meetings as simple as we seem to think and there may be other reasons for a small attendance by blacks.