The wrong kind of example

Something is wrong when a company that goes the extra mile to provide good customer service is threatened with significant penalties as a result.

By considering revoking the right of Four Star Pizza to employ expats because a foreign manager delivered a food order to a customer, Derrick Burgess is demonstrating the same lack of judgment that prompted some of the original criticism of his appointment as Labour Minister.

According to the Immigration department, the law states that no food service company can operate a delivery service to domestic households using non-Bermudians. Such a blanket restriction is foolish and unnecessary. Marico Thomas, managing director of the parent company of Four Star Pizza says that he has around 70 vacancies for delivery drivers at any time, and claims that Bermudians have told him that they are too embarrassed to take the job because of its menial nature.

If Bermudians will not take those positions, why should he be prevented from offering the delivery service using expats? The only reason I can think of is that pizza delivery drivers are not sufficiently important to justify the pressure on space and resources associated with having an expat perform that role. However, in my opinion, that’s an argument for limiting their numbers, not having a blanket ban.

Mr. Burgess can apply some common sense while working within the current law by granting Four Star Pizza special permission to use non-Bermudians in its delivery service. Once he’s done that, he should set about scrapping the ban.

Mr. Burgess should be holding up Four Star Pizza as an example of good customer service, not making an example of them.

Comments

[SmokingGun on 10.10.06 at 15:09]

From the RG:

"Four Star Pizza needs more than 100 delivery drivers to fulfil its orders but usually has more than 70 vacancies at any given time, he said. Locals tell Mr. Thomas they are embarrassed to take the job because it is viewed as menial – even though it can pay as much as $30-an-hour with tips."

Sums it up right there folks. Too many Bermudians have got their heads so far up their arses thinking they are above even a decent paying job just because it involves "service".

Someone once tried to rat me out to immigration because I was calling on their customers and taking their business away. They falsely assumed I was an ex-pat. Boy did I have a good chuckle over that.

[silencedogood on 10.10.06 at 15:24]

Nobody should be surprised. This is pure union mentality. Zebras don't change their stripes.

[inBda on 10.10.06 at 15:35]

"Mr. Burgess had issued two public statements reminding the public that he had “zero tolerance” for Immigration infractions since he was appointed Minister. "

RG - 10.10.2006

Mr Burgess might be standing by his "zero tolerance" approach but if he carries on there'll be zero local businesses left and massive unemployment on the horizon for Bermudians....textbook case of cutting your nose off to spite your face.....

[Full Fullish on 10.10.06 at 15:40]

It's things like this that really piss me off. We are constantly barraged about people not able to find jobs due to expats, and yet here we have a company who it begging for Bermudian labour, mostly cause they are either too lazy or pride gets in the way. If I were in need of a job, I'd hop on my bike and deliver pizzas in a heart beat cause I know full well that Pride doesn't put food on the table.

[AnExpat on 10.10.06 at 15:49]

As an Expat I'm totally interested in how this turns out.

I will apply if Bermuda Immigration wakes up and decides expats can do the job. I don't care - $30 to deliver pizza in my spare time sounds like a great! I had no idea they paid this!

$30 for 3 hours or so every night, is $90 a night or $450 a week. Or, about $1800 per month! That practically pays my rent!! Plus I will get a free slice I imagine from time to time!

[Bill Cook on 10.10.06 at 17:10]

Much as I admire Mr Thomas and his hard work and imagination do we really need 40 foreign workers to deliver pizza ?

If people want pizza let them collect it themselves.

I dont think pizza is healthy with all that fat etc and we dont have space for what I consider non essential services or do we consider pizza an essential food ?

[Andrew on 10.10.06 at 18:48]

I find myself being paranoid about my job duties and the tasks I perform. If I help move a desk, am I working outside my work permit? If I help a colleague with a problem, am I working outside my work permit?

There should be no problem with the manager delivering the damn pizza as long as that isn't his main job. How many times have we all done something outside our work permit because a coworker called in sick or failed to show up. With Pizza delivery guys, I would imagine the frequency of "no-shows" employees would be high. It is up to the managers to make sure the business still runs.

They should receive a customer service award - not a reprimand.

[smith on 10.10.06 at 19:25]

"If people want pizza let them collect it themselves."

"Get off your fat ass and pick up your own mail."

You're out of water?...get some buckets...you don't expect it to be delivered, do you?

[SmokingGun on 10.10.06 at 20:05]

Right - seeing as it hasn't been raining pizzas lately, one truckload of pepperoni, sausage and mushrooms with extra cheese for delivery to smith. ;-)

Bill - I do not disagree that we might not want to have 40 designated ex-pats brought in to deliver pizzas and in order to protect jobs we should be willing to shift our arses a bit but the fact that Bermudians are not willing to do the job speaks volumes. As has been pointed out earlier there are likely to be quite a few ex-pats willing to put in a few extra hours per week picking up $90 for a three hour shift. If they are legally here for another reason then why not allow the local cpompany hire them during munch hours.

[bdacurler on 10.10.06 at 22:45]

Smokes,

"If they are legally here for another reason then why not allow the local company hire them during munch hours"

Unless I am mistaken we are not allowed to do any work outside of what we came here for. We are not allowed 2 work permits and not allowed moonlighting. Without a work permit, even our children who are born and raised here (to non-Bermudian parents)are not allowed to make money bagging groceries with their fellow Bermudian classmates.

This came up when Burgess was all over the construction workers a few months back. Remember there were expat construction workers who were hired to do (I believe) cement work but were caught doing metal work? At the time I agreed with him. My thinking was that I had to go through the proper channels to get a work permit and so should they.

But then reality sets in.

You know how construction jobs go. Even the small one's are never on time. So you are paying a couple expats on work permits to be cement workers and then, something happens to delay the job by a week (there is a cement shortage, someone is sick, they are waiting on the inspection from the gov't...whatever). So what are your options as an employer? Either pay these guys for a week to sit on their arses until the cement arrives or have them help the metal workers to get things done quicker. The latter is illegal and the former is a rediculous waste of time and money which ultimately gets passed on to the (Bermudian) homeowner.

Of course all that is heard in the news is that these evil expats are working here illegally. The reality is never usually that simple.

[NoVote on 10.10.06 at 23:30]

"Much as I admire Mr Thomas and his hard work and imagination do we really need 40 foreign workers to deliver pizza ?

If people want pizza let them collect it themselves." - Bill Cook

I don't think that I've ever hear you come out with anything quite so ridiculous.

I guess that we should do our own gardening, cut our own hair, paint our own rooves, clean our own houses, launder our own shirts, cook ALL of our own meals, and teach our own children.........or pehaps some of us already do.

Alternatively, we can allow econimics to run its course and allow entrepreneurs to set up businesses that provide services people willingly wish to pay for.

Expats are needed for all these jobs, and who are you to say which ones people need or not?

[JJ on 10.10.06 at 23:34]

Delivering pizza is the perfect job for the 16, 17 &18 year kids of ex pats who are not allowed to do the most menial jobs we all did as kids to make some pocket money. If the kid is here living legally with his work-permitted parents why not let him or her make a few bucks if no Bermudians want the jobs. Heck it might even take some pressure off low cost housing by reducing the number of low paid ex pat workers being brought in.

[Lost in Flatts on 11.10.06 at 04:49]

Hehe, love it. His first act against the evils of the big white machine of international business is to take on...pizza delivery guys? I mean seriously, you're joking right?

Hopefully this issue will go a long way to correct Bermudians who seem to think an expat is exclusively a tie-wearing, leather case carrying, Western-born accountant, who has a $10,000 house paid for by the company, drives an SUV, has 3 kids in Saltus and makes ridiculous bank at the expense of poor, equally qualified Bermudians. But it probably won't.

[Adjustah on 11.10.06 at 07:41]

LOL! Well said Smith.

[Here Comes the War on 11.10.06 at 08:34]

So this got me thinking about the Bermudian (presumably) that dobbed this delivery guy in.

Did he refuse the Pizza on moral grounds because the company was operating illegaly? Or did he accept it, pay for it, and proceed to stuff his face with it before calling immigration?

What a sad pathetic lonely shallow individual he must be. I wish Mr Thomas all the best with this debacle.

[silencedogood on 11.10.06 at 08:53]

bdacurler,

I was surprised to hear this, but I was talking to a friend in HR about this who said that technically expats are allowed to have 2nd work permits if their main employer consents and the secondary employer agrees to go through the work permit process. Most people don't take advantage of this, but it can be done.

I think its probably because it's difficult to find a job that doesn't conflict with your primary employment, find one that's willing to go through the process (b/c most are hussles), and find the time. I imagine the immigration department takes an especially close look as well. Depending on how this shakes out, you could probably work for 4 star.

[H Reardon on 11.10.06 at 09:11]

"Much as I admire Mr Thomas and his hard work and imagination do we really need 40 foreign workers to deliver pizza ?

If people want pizza let them collect it themselves.

I dont think pizza is healthy with all that fat etc and we dont have space for what I consider non essential services or do we consider pizza an essential food ?"

Posted by Bill Cook on 10.10.06 at 17:10

So now you are proposing we have Burgess legislate our eating habits. He's done so well with the rest of his job, why not turn this part of my life over to him as well. You seem to imply that if Four Star delivered fruits and veggies that it would be ok to have expats deliver.

This example reminds me of one of those phone surveys I took 5 minutes out of my life to answer recently. One of the questions was "Do you think immigration and work permit laws are tough enough to protect Bermudians?" The implication that more legislation some how makes the situation better is ridiculous--particularly with a wacko like Burgess at the helm. The reason I think extra hard before hiring a Bermudian IS your work permit laws. I can't get rid of a crappy Bermudian, but I sure can get rid of a crappy Canadian.

[Denis Pitcher on 11.10.06 at 09:53]

If government wants to reduce the number of ex-pat workers, very simply they should allow expats to apply for more then one job. This does not mean they won't still have to prove that there is no able and willing Bermudian to fullfill the role.

I mean, 100 delivery drivers? If even 50 are ex-pats that could be working double jobs, thats 50 apartments or homes that could now be vacant.

Our leadership is and remains clueless to common sense.

Bill,

I have to completely disagree with you. Just because pizza is less healthy does not mean people should not have the choice to order it. People can have completely healthy regular diets and every once in a while, might just want a pizza.

Where do you draw the line between what's healthy and the people having the right to choose for themselves?

Frankly, picking it up yourself is difficult on a bike. Do you know what it's like to drive a bike with a big pizza box over the handlebars. Safe? Well I think we've had enough road fatalities already.

[inBda on 11.10.06 at 09:55]

Bill - you have completely missed the point. This is a govt vs local business issue and the fact that it realtes to pizzas is neither here nor there.

We have a local business struggling to operate because the ownder cannot get local staff to work the "menial" jobs. In order to maintain his level of service to his clients he has little option than to ask his expat employees to help out....which as good employees they would.

If it were Bermuda Gas for example struggling to find staff to deliver gas cannisters - would you still be of the same opinion ?? Go and collect your own ? You can hardly get one of those on a 50cc vespa can you ?

Companies operate as a team operation and all parties need to pull together to make the business a sucess....when part of the team has their hands tied and are unable to help out in a crisis then the business is doomed....

The government need to take of the expat blinkers and see what harm they will be doing to local businesses should they continue on this path

[Tiggy on 11.10.06 at 12:51]

I would love to see the person's face who turned in Four Star the next time they call for a pizza! "Sorry, sir/madam, due to new immigration laws we are unable to provide delivery services to anyone! Unless you care to come and provide delivery services to the rest of the island?"

[JJ on 11.10.06 at 13:35]

Dennis wrote:
"If government wants to reduce the number of ex-pat workers, very simply they should allow expats to apply for more then one job. This does not mean they won't still have to prove that there is no able and willing Bermudian to fullfill the role.

I mean, 100 delivery drivers? If even 50 are ex-pats that could be working double jobs, thats 50 apartments or homes that could now be vacant".

This isbascially my point, extended to the children of ex pats.
No votes in it though for any politician to support.

[bdacurler on 11.10.06 at 14:38]

Silencedogood:

You see? This is why LiB's tagline is: "Getting Bermuda talking". I never knew an expat could have more than one workpermit.

The fact is I have never met an expat who did have a second one, and although you say "technically" it is possible, the reality is I'm sure it's damned near impossible. When a simple renewal that is properly advertised in the paper and not one Bermudian applies takes 5 months to be processed, I'm not going to hold my breath for a second one to deliver pizza!

[silencedogood on 11.10.06 at 15:08]

:) I wouldn't hold my breath either. It's just another example of Bermuda,Inc. leaving value on the table. Someone needs to sign cabinet up for a negotiation course.

[Two Cents on 11.10.06 at 15:58]

RE: Expats with 2nd Jobs: - There have been a few that I know of, who have 2nd jobs at night.

RE Pizza Delivery: - This might be a good job also for some of these healthy seniors who instead of pissing & moaning about not getting enough pension money, and only paid into the mandatory pension for the last 5-6 years of their working life could deliver pizzas for extra money. That being said they would have to be tested throughly to make sure that their driving skills were upto scratch.

Now where's that irony mark for point two???

[Bill Cook on 11.10.06 at 16:20]

With a finate land space and a severe housing shortage it seemed to me an extravagance to bring in 40 foreign workers to deliver pizza.

Its everyones own choice if they choose to consume junk food that was not the main point.

To use workers people already here where possible would seem to make sense.

Would the 40 workers have wives and children ?

Why stop at 40 if business expands bring in a 100 or 200, the principle is the same in my opinion.

[Ali on 11.10.06 at 16:33]

Bermuda for Bermudians! Protectionism! No wonder we don't get value for money. Our policies on real estate and employment are driving costs to unsustainable levels for the very people they were supposed to 'protect'. Our government only understands one part of economics, spending. Let's have an open permit category for menial work like pizza delivery,
let anybody do it (if they are already working here).

[Phil on 11.10.06 at 16:42]

Am I right in thinking that some spouses of expats are allowed to live in Bermuda but not permitted to seek work? If so, why not allow them to do jobs like this - or indeed, any job - provided there is no available Bermudian? Since these people are already here, they would place no additional strain on resources.

[SmokingGun on 11.10.06 at 16:45]

Pizza delivering is a menial job? Who's kidding who? It's the top job in my book. Without Pizza deliveries we wouldn't have couch or TV salespeople. Without couches or TV's we wouldn't have doctors and nurses and ambulance drivers. Without doctors and ambulances we wouldn't have lawyers. Without lawyers..... um um... well at least the Pizza Delivery guy's getting some exercise....

[Bermuda 4u on 11.10.06 at 16:48]

Silencedogood and Bdacurler

I know several expats who had 2 work permits.

One worked in international business in the day and in entertainment in the evening.

Another was a diving instructor in the summer months and an engineer in the off-season.

David

[inBda on 11.10.06 at 17:06]

Bill - the point is that people already here who are "entitled" to deliver pizza's won't do it as it's too "menial"

There are plenty of people working in Bermuda here who would - and as demonstrated even the ones already working for the pizza business.

The government are saying that the business owner is not allowed to use the resources he has to meet the demands of his clients. His business is in the service industry and if he can't meet the demands of his clients then he cannot run a profitable business.

How many secretaries are there in Bermuda that are on work permits ? Would you also make that point that it is an extravagance for lawyers to "import" someone to do their typing ?? Maybe they should all just do their own typing and filing....and stop being so extravagant ??

What you deem an extravagance is just a 21st century way of life, people get pizzas delivered, the government have the trash collected from the end of your driveway, businessmen have secretaries who do their typing & filing.

Maybe we should do away with trash collections and we all take our own trash to Tynes Bay ? Is only having to carry your trash 50 feet from your front door an extravagance too ??

Forget the fact that it is pizzas under discussion in your justification that this ruling is reasonable - the only people that this is hurting currently are the local owners of businesses trying to make a decent living in an economy where good staff are in short supply.

At the end of the day no-one has asked for more expats - just to be allowed to fully utilise the ones that are already here - which makes a whole lot of sense in my book.

It's more the principle of the decision than the fact that it's convenience food.....

What if we have an expat paramedic who has a permit to practice emergency medical aid in 911 calls but doesn't have "permission" to drive the ambulance....on a night with multiple call outs and a shortage of drivers are people really going to want the paramedic to say "sorry chaps we'll just have to wait to go out on that call as my permit doesn't allow me to drive.....hope no-one needs immediate assistance...."

[dan burke on 11.10.06 at 17:42]

Look at it on the bright side, 35 years ago there was one place on the entire island which served pizza and it was open five days a week, was closed by 7pm, used pre made crusts and used minimal ingredients. I never tried to order take out; it probably was not available.

Talking as an outsider looking in, I have not lived in bda for about 35 years, y'all are discussing a culture clash. Don't worry though, I have unique solution that should be acceptable to Parliment.

They merely need to pass a law that only taxi's may deliver pizza and require pizza parlors to provide websites which track the delivery via the taxi's gps. Problem solved. Bda's taxi's have more work, Four Star can point to their website as the worlds first real time pizza delivery system and the "Limey" can bid the website contract. The nagging question though would be should pizza taxi's also get emergency pre emption devices to switch the traffic lights green as they approach to avoid delivering cold pizza.

In hindsight, Bda would have been better off going the casino route rather than offshore finance and insurance. It would have been an industry more suited to the intellectual capital and culture resident on the island (Cricket anyone?). I guess after the offshore industries bail when it becomes more cost efficient to move to another offshore location more friendly to their business, Bermuda will have to re weigh their options.

There are few people in the world I admire as much as I admire Bermudians. But, I don't admire them for their work ethic.

Dan

[Read Between the Lines on 11.10.06 at 21:24]

"It can pay as much as $30 per hour with tips."

What exactly does that mean, and how much are we really talking about? I think delivery doesn't even start until after 5:00, so let's say from 5:00-11:00, which is 6 hours per night. How many days per week are there six solid hours? If I ever order pizza, it's on the weekends. Does 4 Star pick up the gas tab? What about insurance? What about benefits? How much goes in your pocket after tax? I'd be much more open to Thomas if I knew what the base salary was, and how the total income can vary throughout the week and seasons. His claim that Bermudians think the work is too menial is quite questionable with the full facts on the table.

[NoVote on 11.10.06 at 21:29]

"There are few people in the world I admire as much as I admire Bermudians. But, I don't admire them for their work ethic."

What work ethic?

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 11.10.06 at 23:46]

"What exactly does that mean, and how much are we really talking about? I think delivery doesn't even start until after 5:00, so let's say from 5:00-11:00, which is 6 hours per night. How many days per week are there six solid hours? If I ever order pizza, it's on the weekends."

I'd agree that weekends are probably much busier, but I would not be surprised at all if there wasn't a brisk-ish business on weekdays. After a long day of work, I know Mrs. Uncle Elvis doesn't always feel like cooking a meal... neither do I. We used to order pizza on a regular basis on weeknights, so, while I'm sure it's true in your household, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

"How much goes in your pocket after tax?"

Tax? What tax? Is there a pizza tax I wasn't told about?

"I'd be much more open to Thomas if I knew what the base salary was, and how the total income can vary throughout the week and seasons. His claim that Bermudians think the work is too menial is quite questionable with the full facts on the table."

You're basically calling him a liar because the reporter didn't put out every detail of the job? How is this is Mr. Thomas' fault?

Of course Bermudians think it's menial and beneath them! To be honest, I do, too. It's beneath me. I wouldn't do the job. Then again, I'm not bitching and moaning about having a job... and, if I found myself out of one, yeah, I'd probably do it as a side-hustle...

[jake on 12.10.06 at 08:06]

I think Thomas deserves to have workers who will do the work if no-one else is applying.

It is comments like novotes that are hard to ignore. There are lazy people in your country too. Does that make you lazy?

I am a Bermudian from Bermudian parents who worked very hard - and I work hard as well. That is the Bermudian work ethic.

Most of us work more than one job to make it happen for our families. That is the Bermudian work ethic, too.

Where are you from? I'd like to examine your country as closely to see how it matches to mine. Perhaps the fact that you are here and not there tells me all I need to know.

[Bill Cook on 12.10.06 at 08:56]

inBda,

I certainly support the the idea of utilising workers already here to perform duties in emergency situations or in any situation that would remove the need to import workers because that would make sense for sustainable development in my opinion.

It never occurred to me that the need to eat pizza was more important than the need to conserve the amount of foreign workers for reasons already explained.

If we have the desire to have nail artists to paint our nails and need 40 workers to cater to the demand as its popularity grows then they too should be catered to.

I guess I see the problems differently than others do.

Comparing pizza delivery men with lawyers who cater to 1B or paramedics who deal with life threatening situations seems plain silly to me and frankly surprises me but I will not belabour the point.

[Two Cents on 12.10.06 at 09:41]

"To be honest, I do, too. It's beneath me. I wouldn't do the job".

Come on Uncle Elvis, I think that describes work in general for you doesn't it ??(which I know you're not a big fan of).

Although you do have a better than average work ethic as psuedo-slackers go ...LOL :) I am fairly sure if you 'became' unemployed you would deliver pizzas if push came to shove.

[Denis Pitcher on 12.10.06 at 10:01]

Dan,

"pass a law that only taxi's may deliver pizza and require pizza parlors"

LOL. If we can't rely on taxi's to actually show up when we call them, why in the world would we want to trust them when we're hungry?

I like your suggestion of tracking the taxi's via a website though. I wish we had that now so I could figure out if and when I should start walking to where I want to go.

[JJ on 12.10.06 at 11:49]

GPS
Get Pizza Served

[Dan Burke on 12.10.06 at 12:14]

Denis,

This is a government solution. You need to re align your expectations.

Dan

[money for nothin on 12.10.06 at 12:15]

At my last job 4star was a client of mine and I can confirm that they do offer insurance benefits to their employees (think the cost was split 50-50). In fact, they had a pretty good program because a lot of their delivery guys would get robbed or in road traffic accidents while making deliveries. They tried very hard to be compliant and make sure they knew what was required of them as an employer. As a side note I would never let my child ,expat or otherwise, be a delivery person...its just plain dangerous.

Bill...of course pizza is essential..sheesh....

[SmokingGun on 12.10.06 at 12:34]

mfn - I think you might have just increased their insurance rates. ;-)

[SmokingGun on 12.10.06 at 13:01]

"In fact, they had a pretty good program because a lot of their delivery guys would get robbed or in road traffic accidents while making deliveries.' - money for nothin

Is this true? Are there a lot of robberies and accidents occuring? If so then I imagine we should definitely allow the ex-pat police officers to moon-light as pizza delivery guys. Would bring a whole new meaning to "to serve and protect". And hey, not only do the criminals come to you but you get paid extra but you also know no-one's going to try to stiff you on payment.

[Lost in Flatts on 12.10.06 at 14:00]

"To serve and protect" - That's just plain magic, cheers SG!

[The Right Reverend Uncle Elvis on 12.10.06 at 23:23]

Jake, was that to me? If so, Bermudian, born and raised. If not... well, still bermudian, born and raised! *grin*

2 ¢, you're right. I'm not much of a worker. Don't like it so much. Having said that, when I do work, I work hard.
Thanks for the kind words, though. I do understand that people's gotta eat and would probably take a job delivering pizzas if there was nothing else.

Smokes, from what I hear, yeah, there is quite a bit of robbery that goes on, as well as the usual delivery hassles: dogs, bad directions, customers, etc.

[Read Between the Lines on 13.10.06 at 08:00]

"You're basically calling him a liar because the reporter didn't put out every detail of the job? How is this is Mr. Thomas' fault?"

I'm proposing that he could in fact be offering a shitty wage and benefits, thus hiring eager expats who will work for damn near nothing because they share their two bedroom apartment with three other families, and will then send their money back to India where it converts to a fortune. See many poor white folk from NA, CAN or the UK working for fourstar?

Employers are just as likely to be exploitative as anyone (not just Bermudians) is likely to think that Pizza delivery is menial. I challenge the idea that the job makes economic sense for a Bermudian.

[texpat on 13.10.06 at 08:41]

I was invited to work here, and I have come to love Bermuda and its people. Your determination to hold on to things and memories is commendable. We Americans move very fast, and often tend to run away from our heritage. Our pride fails us.

But I have discovered the reason that the government wants only Bermudians to deliver pizza.

We could never follow these directions.

"Go up country 'til you pass, Mr. R.D. Hill's house, where he lived before he married my aunt Eliza. You know the one that used to be yellow, but got painted pink when that Australian race driver bought it 30 years ago."

You lost me at "Go up country..."

[texpat on 13.10.06 at 08:42]

By the way, all. It is the yellow house, not the yellow aunt Eliza.

[Sandgrownan on 13.10.06 at 08:46]

texpat - that's why you can't get a taxi to deliver pizza, they'd never find it. Probably drive up and down the strret honking the horn then bugger off.

[Git on 13.10.06 at 17:50]

Someone get texpat a copy of Bermuwjan Vurds... everthing you need to know is in dur ;-)